Charlie Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 The fall of Torres has been spectacular, I actually feel bad for him. Blonde Torres was doing genuinely one of the best strikers in the world for a while at Liverpool, he was a proper magician at times scoring outrageous goals. He just doesn't look the same player at Chelsea, both figuritively and literally, we've even seen a nasty streak to him that he didn't used to have. What have Chelsea done to him? He badly needs to leave, it just isn't working there. Some Liverpool fans despise Torres now, and even Owen, but I still respect what they did for us, they were phenoms. I'm hoping we beat Chelsea, win the league, and Torres peels off his Chelsea shirt to reveal a Liverpool shirt underneath with "Agent Torres" on the back, and leaves Chelsea to join in the title celebration with us. Remember that Torres was awful in his final half-season at Liverpool too. So strange, one day he had it and then next day he'd lost it.
MadDog Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 You feel sorry for Torres? He can go fuck himself, the way he treated the club and fans afterwards was shocking. I enjoy watching him fail.
pratty Posted April 6, 2014 Posted April 6, 2014 You feel sorry for Torres? He can go fuck himself, the way he treated the club and fans afterwards was shocking. I enjoy watching him fail. I think I just like to imagine he was lured to the darkside, rather than be inherently scummy himself, like Anakin Skywalker lol. Just look at him, that's not the Torres I remember, look at the snarly evil in his face, no wonder Jose keeps picking him.
Kav Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 He's not been the same since his injury just before the World Cup.
flameboy Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 What Mourinho has against Lukaku I don't know, he's great for 20! Lukaku: 13 Premier League goals Torres + Eto'o: 12 Premier League goals Lukaku is not 20.... :P This was him aged "10" lol Norwich City sack Chris Hughton. Looks like they're going for a dose of "New Manager Syndrome" to steer them to survival. Might give the team a boost. I hate how this whole race issue has come up again following his sacking. Not that he was sacked because of his race but how there now no black managers in the 92 clubs. I just don't get why this number is touted around and compared the NFL's Rooney Law whereby somebody from a racial diverse background has to be interviewed for every job....that doesn't mean they get it. I'd look at the grassroots of coaching and figure out how to retain retired professionals from all manner of backgrounds within the game be it as coaches, managers, referees what have you rather than trivializing the point and making a club interview somebody as a quota filling exercise. Personally even though it sucks he got sucked... I'm glad the job went to a highly rated youth coach who hopefully can keep them up. I think far more worrying is the lack of English coaches in our top flight if the FA wants to continue on with having an English manager past Roy.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I hate how this whole race issue has come up again following his sacking. Not that he was sacked because of his race but how there now no black managers in the 92 clubs. I just don't get why this number is touted around and compared the NFL's Rooney Law whereby somebody from a racial diverse background has to be interviewed for every job....that doesn't mean they get it. I'd look at the grassroots of coaching and figure out how to retain retired professionals from all manner of backgrounds within the game be it as coaches, managers, referees what have you rather than trivializing the point and making a club interview somebody as a quota filling exercise. Personally even though it sucks he got sucked... I'm glad the job went to a highly rated youth coach who hopefully can keep them up. I think far more worrying is the lack of English coaches in our top flight if the FA wants to continue on with having an English manager past Roy. I've not seen the race issue anywhere, but then I've not been looking. His signings haven't worked and they've underperformed, they haven't played good football. So, the sacking seems to make sense, imo. As for English coaches: What's pleasing is that there are some progressive and forward thinking English coaches, but they're not necessarily in the Premier League. My first thought was Eddie Howe of Bournemouth. The problem is that they're not getting the higher profile jobs. My question would be "why is that?" Could it be down to the style of football that these managers are playing? There does need to be a culture shift and so it is pleasing for me to see managers like Eddie Howe doing well.
Blade Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I see that there is little point sacking someone with 5 games to go. It happened to us last season, 5 games to go and the manager was sacked as we were a few points off automatic. Got a new temp manager and then we lost in the play offs.
flameboy Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I've not seen the race issue anywhere, but then I've not been looking. His signings haven't worked and they've underperformed, they haven't played good football. So, the sacking seems to make sense, imo. As for English coaches: What's pleasing is that there are some progressive and forward thinking English coaches, but they're not necessarily in the Premier League. My first thought was Eddie Howe of Bournemouth. The problem is that they're not getting the higher profile jobs. My question would be "why is that?" Could it be down to the style of football that these managers are playing? There does need to be a culture shift and so it is pleasing for me to see managers like Eddie Howe doing well. I was drawn to this subject by Oliver Holt on twitter.... So there's now not a single black or ethnic minority manager in the Premier League or Football League. But there's no problem. Of course not Hughton not sacked because of race. But men who deserve a chance are being overlooked because of race. 0 out of 92 doesn't lie A Rooney Rule equivalent is long overdue in English football. Need something to drag us towards a fairer system for all Also upon reading many articles include lines such as this: After Chris Powell's sacking by Charlton last month, it also means that there are no black managers working for any of England's 92 league clubs. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/06/norwich-city-sack-chris-hughton-neil-adams I'm still of the belief that this is not as a result of racism. It may have been in the past that football is an old boy's club but with so many foreign based owners this is simply not the case anymore. It's not lack of opportunity, anyone can apply to attend FA coaching courses. Like I said I'd be far more interested in seeing the application numbers and the racial percentages. If people from minorities are being rejected or qualifying and then not finding a job then sure we have an issue, however if they aren't applying then that is a different problem. I just genuinely don't think this is a problem unique to England in terms of football. Hell here in North America which is held as a beacon (for NFL) out of the 6 MLS games I've been to there hasn't been a single minority manager or coach. EDIT: Another article about this issue: http://www.football365.com/diary365/9254025/It-s-Time-For-The-Rooney-Rule-Max
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I was drawn to this subject by Oliver Holt on twitter.... Also upon reading many articles include lines such as this: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/06/norwich-city-sack-chris-hughton-neil-adams I'm still of the belief that this is not as a result of racism. It may have been in the past that football is an old boy's club but with so many foreign based owners this is simply not the case anymore. It's not lack of opportunity, anyone can apply to attend FA coaching courses. Like I said I'd be far more interested in seeing the application numbers and the racial percentages. If people from minorities are being rejected or qualifying and then not finding a job then sure we have an issue, however if they aren't applying then that is a different problem. I just genuinely don't think this is a problem unique to England in terms of football. Hell here in North America which is held as a beacon (for NFL) out of the 6 MLS games I've been to there hasn't been a single minority manager or coach. EDIT: Another article about this issue: http://www.football365.com/diary365/9254025/It-s-Time-For-The-Rooney-Rule-Max Yeah, I'm not going to pay too much/any attention to that. Being black doesn't automatically make you a good manager, it's common sense. We also have no female managers in the Premier League, no homosexual managers, no Pakistani managers and no Martian managers. Results don't lie. The vast majority of managers who have been sacked have had bad results and the teams were in bad positions. The possible exception being Malky Mackay. There's not a race issue. If the coaches/managers are good enough, they'll rise to the top thanks to their own merits, no matter who they are. The simple fact is that there's not enough top quality coaches or managers coming through, for whatever reason.
pratty Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Totally disagree with those Holt quotes. How does he know black coaches aren't getting a chance? Just because not many land a job, what proof is that? As though getting a chance (ie being considered) and actually landing a management role are the same thing. Also convenient that he waits until Houghton is sacked so use his supposedly damning statistic 'proving' racist descrimination. Instead of asking why aren't black managers getting managers jobs? Why does nobody ask why should they get a managers job? What is this idea that if a black man applies for a job he's automatically assumed to be the best candicate? Maybe he's not. Why does there even have to be black reperesentation? I obviously agree black coaches should be welcomed but why should it be forced? For it to actually mean anything black representation should be organic and natural. It's like Sol Campbell saying he should/could have been England captain for 10 years or whatever he said, really? So he's saying Alan Shearer, David Beckham, John Terry and Steven Gerrard don't deserve to be England captain? No, only Sol should be captain, in Sol Campbells's opinion funnily enough. Just because Sol wasn't captain doesn't mean it was racial descrimination, look at the kind of quality alternatives he's up against, not exactly chopped liver are they, not to mention Rio Ferdinand. You can't just assume you weren't fairly considered because you didn't land the job, that's just self centred arrogance. English professional football is full of black players. So why do clubs reserve their 'racism' exclusively for management? They don't. Teams and their staff bend every rule, appeal every decision, even blatantly and shamelessly cheat in order to win, they'll do anything, but they supposedly draw the line at having a black manager? They'll do all that to win, but they won't have a black manager, even if he's the best man for the job? Really? Who is the black Mourinho everybody is ignoring, where are all these black Guardiola's? I guarantee that if a black, homosexual, female manager was the most qualified, proven and likely to deliver the Premiership and Champions League, Man City and Chelsea would be throwing fat cash her way to get her running their team. Perhaps though black coaches are relatively late to the party for whatever reason, and they lack the experience of the white coaches already in the game that they are competing with. As such they lack the experience top clubs are looking for, it's a unfortunate vicious cycle, but perhaps that's just the way it is. It wouldn't be fair to white managers to fast track black ones. All the more reason for a Paul Ince when he does get a chance, not to do a Blackpool, if he never gets management job again nobody can point to it being his race after that farce.
flameboy Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Totally disagree with those Holt quotes. How does he know black coaches aren't getting a chance? Just because not many land a job, what proof is that? As though getting a chance (ie being considered) and actually landing a management role are the same thing. Also convenient that he waits until Houghton is sacked so use his supposedly damning statistic 'proving' racist descrimination. Instead of asking why aren't black managers getting managers jobs? Why does nobody ask why should they get a managers job? What is this idea that if a black man applies for a job he's automatically assumed to be the best candicate? Maybe he's not. Why does there even have to be black reperesentation? I obviously agree black coaches should be welcomed but why should it be forced? For it to actually mean anything black representation should be organic and natural. It's like Sol Campbell saying he should/could have been England captain for 10 years or whatever he said, really? So he's saying Alan Shearer, David Beckham, John Terry and Steven Gerrard don't deserve to be England captain? No, only Sol should be captain, in Sol Campbells's opinion funnily enough. Just because Sol wasn't captain doesn't mean it was racial descrimination, look at the kind of quality alternatives he's up against, not exactly chopped liver are they, not to mention Rio Ferdinand. You can't just assume you weren't fairly considered because you didn't land the job, that's just self centred arrogance. English professional football is full of black players. So why do clubs reserve their 'racism' exclusively for management? They don't. Teams and their staff bend every rule, appeal every decision, even blatantly and shamelessly cheat in order to win, they'll do anything, but they supposedly draw the line at having a black manager? They'll do all that to win, but they won't have a black manager, even if he's the best man for the job? Really? Who is the black Mourinho everybody is ignoring, where are all these black Guardiola's? I guarantee that if a black, homosexual, female manager was the most qualified, proven and likely to deliver the Premiership and Champions League, Man City and Chelsea would be throwing fat cash her way to get her running their team. Perhaps though black coaches are relatively late to the party for whatever reason, and they lack the experience of the white coaches already in the game that they are competing with. As such they lack the experience top clubs are looking for, it's a unfortunate vicious cycle, but perhaps that's just the way it is. It wouldn't be fair to white managers to fast track black ones. All the more reason for a Paul Ince when he does get a chance, not to do a Blackpool, if he never gets management job again nobody can point to it being his race after that farce. Yep you are completely right. I tweeted him quite a lengthy set of tweets and he didn't argue my points about how its more important to work on making sure every ethnicity feels compelled to be start their coaching qualifications and work their way up to the required standards. To me that's more organic. I mean what if they reach out and then realise that the "quotas" just don't match up then why try and force it. He replied to me and agreed but still says the Rooney Rule should be applied arguing that whilst a club doesn't have to appoint a minority applicant just listening will increase the opportunity and eventually wear down the view that black managers aren't good. I think it's really missing the point like you said where is the ethnic Mourinho applying for all these jobs and not getting them? I'd just see a situation where Paul Ince is getting interviewed for every job :P I also think it's a bit of misinformation there are black managers in non league...Frank Sinclair at Colwyn Bay instantly springs to mind, so they clearly are getting opportunities just not at the level that the press is interested in. Hell look at the number of African national teams who have white European managers.... Chris H got sacked purely as a result of an extremely volatile Premiership season (when isn't it?) where we've seen other managers sacked for skirting round that relegation zone not even in it. Another aside I hate how journalists use twitter....they can make sensationalist posts without even bothering trying to back it up with any substance it's an even lazier form of journalism. EDIT: In other news Tim Sherwood to be replace next season: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11675/9254198/tim-sherwood-to-be-relieved-of-managerial-duties-at-tottenham-this-summer Is this because he is English and any team with top 4 aspirations doesn't appoint English? Here is Sky Sports betting sheet: Jurgen Klinsmann Frank de Boer Louis van Gaal Michael Laudrup Glenn Hoddle Mauricio Pochettino Harry Redknapp Other Let's be honest neither of those English candidates are real contenders but how about a new rule where they have to interviewed anyway? Edited April 7, 2014 by flameboy
MadDog Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Frank de Boer would be an interesting choice, would be good to see how he'd do. Van Gaal stands out, though.
Ramar Posted April 7, 2014 Author Posted April 7, 2014 I've been doing a dazzy and dodging this topic, but I suppose I better man up. Was at the match yesterday, fucking abysmal. I've seen us play some shit games over the years but yesterday was beggars belief. We needed to make sure we didn't lose and within the first two minutes you could tell we weren't up to task. The second half in the stands was poisonous, fans arguing everywhere, even heard an Arsenal fan call Wenger a paedo. Absolutely disgraceful stuff. However I am leaning towards it being the end of Arsene's tenure at the club. Our performances against the other top 5 sides this season has been appalling, W 1 D 3 L 4 (if I've remembered correctly). Clearly something amiss when motivating and preparing the players for these matches. It's all about Wigan on Saturday now, if we fuck that up then shit will seriously hit the fan.
Blade Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 @Ramar. You agree that winning the FA Cup would be Wenger's swansong and that he should bow out after that?
MadDog Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 @All Arsenal fans. Would you prefer to win the FA Cup or finish 4th?
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I've been doing a dazzy and dodging this topic, but I suppose I better man up. Was at the match yesterday, fucking abysmal. I've seen us play some shit games over the years but yesterday was beggars belief. We needed to make sure we didn't lose and within the first two minutes you could tell we weren't up to task. The second half in the stands was poisonous, fans arguing everywhere, even heard an Arsenal fan call Wenger a paedo. Absolutely disgraceful stuff. However I am leaning towards it being the end of Arsene's tenure at the club. Our performances against the other top 5 sides this season has been appalling, W 1 D 3 L 4 (if I've remembered correctly). Clearly something amiss when motivating and preparing the players for these matches. It's all about Wigan on Saturday now, if we fuck that up then shit will seriously hit the fan. Urgh, I hate the "Arsene is a paedo" talk. It's so immature. I think it'll be his last season, unfortunately. He'll get them into the top 4 and they might win the FA Cup. But, this was the perfect opportunity for Arsenal to go for the title now that Sir Alex left United and we've been going through a period of transition. Arsene spent big on Ozil but the club haven't made progress, imo. There was talk yesterday of Martinez being the next Arsenal manager, which sounds good on paper, but I think he'll be with Everton for a good few years yet.
Ramar Posted April 7, 2014 Author Posted April 7, 2014 @Ramar. You agree that winning the FA Cup would be Wenger's swansong and that he should bow out after that? I would love nothing more than winning the FA cup this year, I'd take it over top 4. It would be a fitting way for such a great manager to bow out.
Mr-Paul Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 @MadDog win the FA Cup and finish third But seriously, it's a tough one. Finishing fourth is important in terms of financials, and despite our limited success in the competition, I love the Champions league. But on the other hand, we need to win a trophy. If we don't win the cup, it'll be an embarrassment. People always say winning a cup can motivate players to go on and win more, but based on our last few performances, I don't think anything could make these players have the mental strength to win a league! It's baffling really. These are professional footballers, but they've been playing like they don't really care. Winning should be everything to them, they should be giving 100% in every game. But we're not getting that. Is that the fault of the players or the manager? Hard to know, but something needs to change.
Emerald Emblem Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I think we need only look at how Liverpool have coped losing European football, rather than consistently getting it just about, they've had to cope without it and they have come back stronger from it. I'd definitely take the FA cup and Europa League because frankly the team doesn't deserve Champions League, but then again would Ozil want to tough out a spell out of the champions league? That is my only concern.
Wii Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Sunderland 1-0 up against Spurs. Sad to see Hughton getting the sack. Bad timing as well.
Hero-of-Time Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Sunderland 1-0 up against Spurs. Sad to see Hughton getting the sack. Bad timing as well. Not anymore. Spurs are battering them at the moment. They could easily have had a few more.
dazzybee Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 Eriksen 2 assists and and a goal. And people laughed at me when I said he was better value than ozil. Not just better value. He's just better. Almost as funny as when Jon laughed at me when I said Vertonghen was better than vermaelen. I love shortsighted football fans.
nekunando Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I didn't know the Tottenham score but when I saw @dazzybee had posted here near full time, I guessed Spurs had won
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 7, 2014 Posted April 7, 2014 I see Soldado didn't score again tonight. I take it that there were no penalties awarded in this game, then? :p Eriksen 2 assists and and a goal. And people laughed at me when I said he was better value than ozil. Not just better value. He's just better. Almost as funny as when Jon laughed at me when I said Vertonghen was better than vermaelen. I love shortsighted football fans. Eriksen is excellent. Although, with regards to Spurs' signings: Even a broken clock is right twice in a day. Given that you spent so much money on so many players, one of your signings had to be good. :p That's Sunderland done for, then. Cardiff will probably go down, too. It's between Norwich and Fulham then for that last spot.
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