Magnus Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I think they should fry his brain until he loses his memory and make him believe that he's living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where everyone is out to kill him, and after he's spent the entire day fearing for his life, they should tell him about all the horrible things he's done and parade him through the streets so people can throw things at him before frying his brain again so the whole thing can start over the next day.
Oxigen_Waste Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 He's killed a guy in cold blood and tried to kill another. Yes, it is black and white. The guy deserves punishment worse than death. Boo all you like. I know reason is on my side, here. Scandinavia and some other countries have already demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that a punishment based around reabilitation results in much lower rates reoffending rates, like Charlie already said. This style of punishment is barbaric and the whole eye for an eye mentality is childish. Be sadisticly angry and vindictive all you want, but it doesn't result in anything other than more meaningless suffering... and I think we have enough of that already. Frankly it bothers me immensely that you seem to be relishing in his suffering just because he did something wrong. Until he dies. He's taken somebody's life. In turn his should be forfeit. According to what law? Don't use your personal set of principles as if they were a de facto moral compass, man... eye for an eye has been around since Babylon, and it clearly doesn't work... So why keep doing it? Out of spite? Punishment should be constructive... it's supposed to build better people, not destroy what's left of them.
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) I know reason is on my side, here. Scandinavia and some other countries have already demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that a punishment based around reabilitation results in much lower rates reoffending rates, like Charlie already said. This style of punishment is barbaric and the whole eye for an eye mentality is childish. Be sadisticly angry and vindictive all you want, but it doesn't result in anything other than more meaningless suffering... and I think we have enough of that already. Frankly it bothers me immensely that you seem to be relishing in his suffering just because he did something wrong. According to what law? Don't use your personal set of principles as if they were a de facto moral compass, man... eye for an eye has been around since Babylon, and it clearly doesn't work... So why keep doing it? Out of spite? Punishment should be constructive... it's supposed to build better people, not destroy what's left of them. I can see where you're coming from and sure you have your views, but as someone who knows a murderer, as well as his victim and her family, fuck your views. Reason is on your side? No. Where was reason when a guy murdered his ex girlfriend in cold blood leaving behind her infant child and younger orphaned brother. Fuck your views! Forfeit. That's just the way it is for me. I never mentioned any law anywhere, I aired my views as was asked by the thread. Then you spout your hippy views at me. Childish, no. The fact it stirs up such emotion in me lets me know it's not some throw away childish view. Don't you tell me otherwise! (Sorry I'm a bit riled up but that's how it gets me, I don't mean to insult at all) Edited March 20, 2013 by Kav
Oxigen_Waste Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 I can see where you're coming from and sure you have your views, but as someone who knows a murderer, as well as his victim and her family, fuck your views. Reason is on your side? No. Where was reason when a guy murdered his ex girlfriend in cold blood leaving behind her infant child and younger orphaned brother. Fuck your views! Forfeit. That's just the way it is for me. I never mentioned any law anywhere, I aired my views as was asked by the thread. Then you spout your hippy views at me. Childish, no. The fact it stirs up such emotion in me lets me know it's not some throw away childish view. Don't you tell me otherwise! (Sorry I'm a bit riled up but that's how it gets me, I don't mean to insult at all) C'mon... it is a bit childish if you think about it... You can't even see that the only reason you think the way you do is because you've felt the consequences of a criminal's actions personally. You're biased, the type of person who would get kicked out of a jury, as you're using the emotional charge of something that happened near you to justify the suffering of others. Using demagogy for your hate mongering doesn't make it any more valid, Imran Khan(j/k). The only answer is rehabilitation. It works... the alternative doesn't, as 4000 years of history have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt... Also, don't fret, bro, I know you meant no offense, and I assure I meant no offense either, this is a place of love, not hate, and I also understand that this is an issue that involves some very sensitive issued for you, it's all good, no worries, if I was in your shoes who's to say I wouldn't think exactly the same way, right? You'll get no judgement from me on your opinions on matters that are 100% subjective, rest assured, all I said was in the interest of generating intelligent discussion, never to harm or insult. : peace: Friends?
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 I don't think it's childish at all. A childish viewpoint would be to not care about the answer, no matter the answer itself. We're shaped by the world and its events, things that happen in it. Biased doesn't come into it, some of my friends that know the same people I do disagree with me and would agree with you. Are they in anyway biased? It's just how people perceive the world and what is just. I just happen to feel that some people don't deserve rehabilitation.
Jonnas Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression from this case in particular that he shot two police officers out of panic, not premeditation. Surely that's different than killing in cold blood? (Just asking, because kav mentioned him killing in cold blood when that's not the impression I got from the article)
Guy Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Whenever I read about someone being killed in cold blood, all I can think about is Uncle Ben's death in Spider-man. The third movie fucked that up too. Stupid Spidey 3.
bob Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Uncle Ben's death wasn't in cold blood, as it was a car-jacking gone wrong? So your brain is wrong.
Zechs Merquise Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 An eye for an eye isn't childish at all. This man took another life now he whines that his life is a nightmare. Well I'm sure it wasn't too pleasant for the family and friends of the man who he killed the day they got that crushing news. It never fails to amaze me the way criminals are turned into victims by liberals.
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 He's written that article with a clear and concise mind. He's not suffered worse than death, he's just feeling sorry for himself. He's not lost his mind in any way, he's not deteriorated mentally in way. What a load of BS! The manner on which he reflects on things shows his appreciation for being alive. The punishment is not excessive in any way!
Daft Posted March 20, 2013 Author Posted March 20, 2013 An eye for an eye isn't childish at all. This man took another life now he whines that his life is a nightmare. Well I'm sure it wasn't too pleasant for the family and friends of the man who he killed the day they got that crushing news. It never fails to amaze me the way criminals are turned into victims by liberals. It's reached a point where I'm not amazed by how black and white some people can make the world when it's never that simple. Simple things, though...
Mr-Paul Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 But should there not be any chance of redemption, @kav82? Why can't he be part of a prison system where he can be rehabilitated - even if he is never released back into society, which I think in many situations is justified, why can't he be put to use in a prison work system, and actually be useful? Right now, he's just a drain on resources.
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 He killed a guy in cold blood, he's a drain on human life.
Ville Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 @kav82 Eye-for-eye is pretty problematic...since it implies people cannot make any mistakes whatsoever. I mean we're people, we make mistakes all the time. If we want a society with just "perfect" people, it's gonna be a lonely world... Also, people being a drain...well, you could argue that there are a lot of other groups too, which are a drain on the society. Like handicapped people, ugly people, jobless people, alcoholics, drug users, retarded people...those playing video games all day ; D It's just the same, do these people have any value despite draining society?
Debug Mode Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Fair play to those who think he deserves it all coming to him because he took a life, I can understand the view point despite disagreeing with it. Problem is, that's not how our world is supposed to function with the rules that are in place. This is torture, there's no denying it, and that's not on. He lost his right to freedom for the rest of his life, not the right to being human. Solitary is a fucking terrible idea, especially for such an inhuman duration. He shouldn't released purely because of his time in solitary, that'd be a very ill advised choice considering the lack of any rehabilitation. But, he and every one else, regardless of sentence, should be taken out of solitary confinement and it put back to its primary use of being a temporary punishment within prisons for trouble makers.
Mr-Paul Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 He killed a guy in cold blood, he's a drain on human life. So if he's a drain on human life, should he be killed himself then? And if the law says he can't be killed, is keeping someone alive, doing absolutely nothing, in solitary confinement, really the best solution? As I said, why not put him to work? I understand solitary confinement can be a deterrent to others. Prison itself is meant to be a deterrent to crime. I studied some criminal psychology a few years back, the fact is, it doesn't work. Punishment and rehab is the way forward. Keeping someone in solitary confinement for so long is just a waste of everything, really. It achieves very little.
yesteryeargames Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Hahaha glad to hear someone like that is suffering The victims family and friends will suffer for the rest of their lives, im all for eye for an eye for serious crimes, I think filthy sex offenders should have there privates removed as part of the punishment Edited March 20, 2013 by yesteryeargames
Ville Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 I think filthy sex offenders should have there privates removed as part of the punishment But that's really not eye for eye, is it? Raping them would be...and what about women who rape? How would you remove their privates?
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 So if he's a drain on human life, should he be killed himself then?And if the law says he can't be killed, is keeping someone alive, doing absolutely nothing, in solitary confinement, really the best solution? As I said, why not put him to work? I understand solitary confinement can be a deterrent to others. Prison itself is meant to be a deterrent to crime. I studied some criminal psychology a few years back, the fact is, it doesn't work. Punishment and rehab is the way forward. Keeping someone in solitary confinement for so long is just a waste of everything, really. It achieves very little. I simply don't believe his life should have any sense of worth. The punishment fit the crime in my eyes. @Ville if you make "the mistake" of murdering someone then no, I don't think you should try and rehabilitate that person. He's killed someone, his life Gould be forfeit. In the article he says that the judge wishes he could've given him the death sentence but says is it not for god to judge him... well who the fuck gave him the right to end that persons life?! I know, let's all feel sorry for him for being locked up. I know, let's feel sorry for Anders Breijvick (spelling may be incorrect, but i couldn't care less about that vile piece of trash) whilst we're at it, lets try and make him a better person. No! I completely and utterly disagree with this rehabilitating of serious offenders. Every fibre of my being disagrees.
bob Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 But that's really not eye for eye, is it? Raping them would be...and what about women who rape? How would you remove their privates? And what about sex offenders who only have illegal porn on their computers....should they have porn of themselves put on other's computers?
Shorty Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Why is death the level by which we draw a standard of reasonable punishment?
Magnus Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Kav's the kind of person who reads Judge Dredd and doesn't realize it's supposed to be satire.
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Kav's the kind of person who reads Judge Dredd and doesn't realize it's supposed to be satire. Haha, I just can't find forgiveness within for serious offenders. It's not black and white, circumstances will effect my thoughts on matters but this was cold blood killing. That's just a little too much.
Diageo Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Not everything in life is a perfect choice. There are many factors that contribute to a person's personality and the kind of person they become. If a child grows up in a house where the father gets everything from gang related crime, and only responds to disobedience with violence, is indoctrinated into becoming a remorseless killer. Is it really the child's fault if they grow up to kill someone. Is it because of the parent's wrongdoing that the child's life is forfeit forever? Depending on nutrition, alcohol use, drug use or due to trauma to the head, people can loose their inhibitory processes and not be able to control themselves in a fit of anger. They physically don't have the capability to inhibit their emotional response. When their libido is triggered, their mind has no power to control it. Is that really their fault? What if a man's child is murdered, and he finds the killer and kills him "in cold blood". Is his life forfeit too? People who believe that killers deserve to die are those who can't comprehend that the human mind works differently in different people than it does for them. Not everyone has the same upbringing that allows them to create a healthy set of morals and a productive conscience of inhibition. It is not black and white. Not even close. Would you be as ruthlessly vindictive against the killer if he had autism, or mental retardation, if he was a 7 year old incapable of understanding the consequences of his actions?
Kav Posted March 20, 2013 Posted March 20, 2013 Not everything in life is a perfect choice. There are many factors that contribute to a person's personality and the kind of person they become. If a child grows up in a house where the father gets everything from gang related crime, and only responds to disobedience with violence, is indoctrinated into becoming a remorseless killer. Is it really the child's fault if they grow up to kill someone. Is it because of the parent's wrongdoing that the child's life is forfeit forever? Depending on nutrition, alcohol use, drug use or due to trauma to the head, people can loose their inhibitory processes and not be able to control themselves in a fit of anger. They physically don't have the capability to inhibit their emotional response. When their libido is triggered, their mind has no power to control it. Is that really their fault? What if a man's child is murdered, and he finds the killer and kills him "in cold blood". Is his life forfeit too? People who believe that killers deserve to die are those who can't comprehend that the human mind works differently in different people than it does for them. Not everyone has the same upbringing that allows them to create a healthy set of morals and a productive conscience of inhibition. It is not black and white. Not even close. Would you be as ruthlessly vindictive against the killer if he had autism, or mental retardation, if he was a 7 year old incapable of understanding the consequences of his actions? I agree. I'm talking about this case in particular. For example, the woman that recently killed someone almost severing their head but had phoned the police before-hand telling them she was hearing voices telling her to do it and that she had a history of mental illness and that the last time she heard these voices she killed her mother... that I can accept is something that isn't black and white. Of course I feel sorry for her, the poor woman tried to prevent what she did. I'm not tarring every case with the same brush.
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