Cube Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 But basically, for those with the Wii U version, would you say you regret not getting the game on the switch? And are there cheaper places where I could pick up a digital code for the Wii U version? I don't regret it at all. The only negative is the reminder that certain aspects of the game would have been better if the GamePad had been used properly.
Hero-of-Time Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Not so taken by it then? I've not been keeping up with this thread while I was away (it seems to have almost doubled in size!!), so sorry if you've already mentioned this, but how come? Here's my final thoughts after finishing the game. I'll put it in spoilers so people don't have to read it again. Myself and @drahkon were PMing each other after finishing the game. We kept our thoughts to ourselves because there are a lot of negatives we were discussing and we figured we would be burned at the stake if posting them here. People don't like to here criticism about something they love and tend to get all defensive. Seeing as you asked for people's honest thoughts, then here it goes. WARNING: If you can't take the criticism i'm about to post then please don't read the following. Negatives Ever since seeing the open world footage of the game I was worried that the world of Hyrule may feel desolate and empty and sadly that's what I found when I played the game. While it does fill up a little more as you open up more of the map, there's still a sense of emptiness and not much going on. Story wise I think the game is pretty weak and half hearted. We a living in a time where games can have fantastic narratives, with a deep storyline and characters you care about. For me, this has always been one of Nintendo's weakest points. They admitted many times before that gameplay comes first, which should always be the case, but you can have both an amazing story and amazing gameplay. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The Zelda in this game has got to be one of the worst incarnations the series has ever seen. In the past we have seen her as a strong leader but in BotW she comes across as a spoiled brat. It's a different approach but one that doesn't resonate with me. Speaking of Zelda, the voice acting for the character is awful. It really is. I've no idea if this is due to the direction given to the actor or the actor herself but either way it is very rough. I was overjoyed to hear that Zelda was finally going to have voice acting in the game but then we heard that it was only for certain cutscenes, which kinda bummed me out. Having heard Zelda speak, i'm glad there wasn't more in the game. Again, my point comes back to other games handling a narrative in better ways. Before playing Zelda I had played an hour of Horizon and within that hour you can see the difference in the quality of the voice acting. I'm play Ghost Recon at the moment and it's the same thing there. It honestly feels like Nintendo looked for the cheapest option and went with that. I don't mind that the game takes itself seriously but I would like the lines to be delivered a lot better. I love the Kingdom Hearts series. It's a series that takes itself WAY to seriously and the dialogue can be confusing as hell. However, S-E hire some great actors that pull of amazing performances and draw you into the game, despite the state of the script. In the past they've hired the likes of Billy Zane, Christopher Lee, Haley Joel Osment, David Boreanaz and Leonard Nimoy for the roles of various characters and the quality shows. Moving on, I found the combat in the game to be annoying. It was sluggish and slow and I think it could have done with being redone. A lot of reviews were claiming that the combat was as brutal as the Souls games. They were right in the sense that enemies hit hard but that is where the comparisons end. In Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Nioh the enemies can do a lot of damage in a short space of time but you always feel like a dodge here and a parry there can turn the tide of battle. Nioh was immensely satisfying in this regard as you could switch between 3 stances and two weapons without having to pause the screen and change it in a menu. Everything was fluid and, while the battles were tough, the combat and systems these games have always felt like I was in control. I never felt this way in Zelda. The combat in the game also has another problem and that is the weapon breaking system. For me, this system actually discourages fighting. For example, with the way I played the game ( found all the towers first ) I got some very strong weapons early on and kept a hold of them. Knowing that these weapons were strong, I didn't want to use them out in the field and any time I seen an enemy encampment I would simple walk on by. Why use and break my powerful weapon on enemies that aren't worth it? I would win the fight but possibly break a strong weapon and pick up a far weaker one. If Nintendo wanted to people to use different weapons then they should have done something similar to what Nioh does and allow for a quick weapon change with the press of the button. Having to go into a menu, scroll along and then equipment a new bit of kit is annoying. It's not a game breaker but it's certainly not fluid and it breaks up the combat. The music in the game is very lacking. Outside of the usual Zelda jingles, I can only think of one song that has stuck with me and that was the one right at the end when going through Hyrule Castle. The tune that plays at that part of the game is very epic. I listened through the whole soundtrack while doing my work yesterday and it's very minimalistic ( not sure if thats the right word to use). It's more about setting the mood rather than being a big and memorable orchestral piece. It works in a couple of instances, such as the one I mentioned earlier in the thread about the snowy regions, but for the most part this method didn't work for me. Music has a great way of lifting an average game to something greater and that could have worked for Zelda. I'm not saying Zelda is average by any stretch of the imagination but I feel it could have helped me enjoy the game more. I played through Final Fantasy XV last year. The game has many issues but the music in the game was absolutely amazing. It had some epic tracks that really set the mood and got my hyped while playing through the sections that played this music. Something like the following what I would have loved to hear in Zelda Audio Audio Audio Dungeons in Zelda games are always a highlight. These have the ability to lift an average Zelda to new heights. Many people have issues with Twilight Princess but love the dungeons in that game. There are only 4 dungeons in this game and they were all disappointing. Aesthetically all the dungeons are the same. In previous Zelda games there is a lot of variety in the way a dungeon looks, from frozen palaces to fiery mountains, each had their own theme and distinct look. This isn't the case here and the look they choose is pretty bland. Each of the dungeons are pretty short, as well. You can probably knock them out on your first go in about 15-20 minutes, with a lot of the puzzles being straight forward. This is because you pretty much have all the items on hand that you need to finish the dungeon. In a sense it removes the back and forth/exploration of the past Zelda dungeons and makes it more straight forward. The dungeon bosses were a let down, as well. I won't really go into much as I don't want to spoil those for people but I wasn't happy with how easy they were or how they all looked pretty much the same. Positives On a more positive note, I loved the look of the games overworld and characters. The design and art they went with is absolutely beautiful and I imagine will be far more timeless than any of the other games I have mentioned. I did enjoy making my way around Hyrule, despite the emptiness. While I had issues with the rain hindering my progress, I did enjoying the verticality of the game. Climbing up the mountains, looking at what was in the distance and then gliding my way towards that spot I seen on the horizon was a joy. I also enjoyed the amiibo functionality. There have been very few games that use the little Nintendo toys so it was nice to be able to get them off the shelf and scan them in for useful items and special outfits. The shrines are something I really enjoyed. The little bite sized dungeons are perfect to break up the overworld exploration. Seeing your radar ping and then heading off to look for where the shrine is located was a fun experience. I imagine the shrines are also great for those playing the game while traveling on public transport. Being able to dip in and out of these little dungeons would be perfect for someone who travel a lot. Closing Remarks For the length of time that this game was in development for, I was expecting something far better. I was hoping that Nintendo would have taken a look at what other developers have been doing, nick the good ideas that have been used in those games and then apply them to the world of Zelda. I play through a LOT of games and as such I will compare all these games to each other. While BOTW has done some great things in the game that have made steps forward for the franchise, I still think it's lacking certain qualities and features that other games have that are out on the market today. Despite all my issues with the game, I still really enjoyed my time with it. I was actually contemplating starting a new save file and going through it again, once the rush of PS4 games have died down, but I may just hold off and wait to play the Switch version. There are bound to be some dazzybee type typos in here but i'm at work and can't really go through proof reading this...so suck it. :p Myself, Esequiel, Happenstance and Drahkon have finished it and all of us had very similar thoughts about the game. We realise we are very much in the minority, though. Everyone else seems to really adore the game. I will say that the Wii U version is great and I have no issues recommending that version of the game. I don't regret it at all. The only negative is the reminder that certain aspects of the game would have been better if the GamePad had been used properly. Cube makes a fair point that I forgot to make. It seems the Wii U version got the shaft due Nintendo wanting parity with the Switch version. That means the Wii U version has off TV play but no map or inventory management on the GamePad screen.
Pestneb Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Here's my final thoughts after finishing the game. I'll put it in spoilers so people don't have to read it again. Myself, Esequiel, Happenstance and Drahkon have finished it and all of us had very similar thoughts about the game. We realise we are very much in the minority, though. Everyone else seems to really adore the game. I will say that the Wii U version is great and I have no issues recommending that version of the game. Cube makes a fair point that I forgot to make. It seems the Wii U version got the shaft due Nintendo wanting parity with the Switch version. That means the Wii U version has off TV play but no map or inventory management on the GamePad screen. just going to address a few points you made.. Moving on, I found the combat in the game to be annoying. It was sluggish and slow and I think it could have done with being redone. Just wondering if you (or someone else?) could compare the combat to other games? The combat in the game also has another problem and that is the weapon breaking system. For me, this system actually discourages fighting. I think that is the point as well. Realistically, if I was travelling through Hyrule myself, I wouldn't leap into battle at every and any opportunity, not because my weapons might break, but because I might. Giving a limited lifespan to weapons seems a good idea in this instance. It requires survival skills, resourcefulness and probably makes the player approach enemies in a more realistic manner (ie more cautiously and thoughtfully... if at all.) Aesthetically all the dungeons are the same. In previous Zelda games there is a lot of variety in the way a dungeon looks, from frozen palaces to fiery mountains, each had their own theme and distinct look. This isn't the case here and the look they choose is pretty bland. looked at the very start of this video: is that a good example of the aesthetics in dungeons? If so I'm ok with that. I think the majority of your negatives come from a wider range of experience with games.. I don't think I have that so would probably be ok with most of the "failures" you mention, my main concern is how the combat feels... but again perhaps this adds to the "realism" of the game?
Sheikah Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 The problem with old Zelda and weapons not breaking was that it was too easy. You could literally shield tank your way through the game. As soon as you get the best sword you are sorted and nothing else matters. This way it's still exciting to encounter a powerful foe with a good weapon because you can bag that weapon. You have to choose when fighting a guardian whether to spend a few weapons or arrows or run away. If you just had the best weapon, you could fight every single one, and you would always just discard the lower attack weapons.
Shorty Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I absolutely adore the weapon breaking system. I liken it to Halo where you would grab a needler off an enemy's body, use it til it was out of ammo, and then throw it away and grab something else. I have never once strayed from a fight (since becoming strong enough to survive) because I can finish off an enemy with my best weapon and then take theirs. Also there are weapons to be found with high durability, or that counter an enemy in a single blow, and thus don't go down too fast. Only thing is, I would've liked a way to repair a weapon you got really attached to. But instead, I find myself extra happy to see an opportunity to get another of those.
Kav Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 The weapon breaking system encourages use of different weapons to find a style(s) you like and also, I think most importantly (and triumphantly), to use the environment to deal with enemies. The interactivity with the environment is the best thing in this game, it opens up so much gameplay, it really is astounding and it also gives a feeling that Hyrule is a living, breathing world.
khilafah Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 The weapon breaking system encourages use of different weapons to find a style(s) you like and also, I think most importantly (and triumphantly), to use the environment to deal with enemies. The interactivity with the environment is the best thing in this game, it opens up so much gameplay, it really is astounding and it also gives a feeling that Hyrule is a living, breathing world. MH style of weapons becoming blunt would have been a whole lot better. In Zelda the weapons don't even last a reasonably long time.
Grazza Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 There were times in this game that I worked out how to get to a chest in a Shrine, only to not take the weapon because I didn't want to waste any of my existing ones. We've gone back to the dreaded "putting things back in chests" from Twilight Princess! The weapon breaking system encourages use of different weapons to find a style(s) you like and also, I think most importantly (and triumphantly), to use the environment to deal with enemies. I do agree with this, but I don't think you need durability to have variety. I'd advocate having a space in the inventory for one melee weapon of each category - Single-handed Swords, Two-handed swords, Blunt Swords/Hammers, Spears, Ancient/Guardian Swords, Ancient/Guardian Spears... and so on. When you get a new one, it automatically replaces anything you had that was weaker. There could be a system so that you could make the most powerful one you had visually appear like your favourite design. It's not just that I didn't like the durability system; I think it'd be a real thrill to keep getting stronger in this manner.
Kav Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Whereas I see your point @Grazza and can see why people would prefer that, I'm still glad for the weapon breaking because I'd not have had as much fun with the game otherwise, because I'd have just fought with my weapons. Being in a position where I didn't want to lose some weapons (earlier on) I was forced to improvise and use the environment to fight. Now given how many good weapons are available to me as I play after a lot of time with the game I could just use my weapons to fight, but it's so much more fun dispatching foes with the environment! It really made me think out of the box and change the way I played... and I've loved it for it!
Hero-of-Time Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I think the majority of your negatives come from a wider range of experience with games.. I don't think I have that so would probably be ok with most of the "failures" you mention. That's a big part of my general feelings towards this game. I've played so many games that do things better, or at least more to my liking, than what BOTW does. I've just finished Ghost Recon Wildlands and genuinely had more fun playing in that sandbox than the one in BOTW. I will say that the climbing/verticality aspect in the game is great and something I would like other developers to expand on. Everything else though Nintendo can keep. Some say that Zelda may have ruined other games for them but for me it's the other way around. Other games have ruined Zelda for me.
Ronnie Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I don't think I could ever play another Ubisoft openworld game where you climb a tower and have it fill your map in with a series of checkboxes.
Pestneb Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 ok. Well it's downloading now. not the cheapest way to get the game. Also pushed the earliest Switch purchase back I really hope splatoon 2 and odyssey look disappointing to me!
Kav Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 ...Some say that Zelda may have ruined other games for them but for me it's the other way around. Other games have ruined Zelda for me. At least only 1 game is ruined for you, haha.
Ronnie Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Developers Weigh In On The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild's Brilliance
liger05 Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Developers Weigh In On The Legend Of Zelda: Breath Of The Wild's Brilliance Really cool video I agree with so many things. Firstly the fact this is Nintendo's first open world game and they totally hit out of the park. They nailed it. First time and they killed it. That's one amazing achievement. For me the game is incredible. You can have so much fun without even advancing the story. Edited March 17, 2017 by liger05
Dog-amoto Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 Got to agree with pretty much everything @Hero\-of\-Time has said. Look at the mirror puzzle in Wind Waker where you use the mirror shield and then tell me the shrines and dungeons in BotW are up to scratch. I managed to bypass a puzzle completely by tilting a room and using the sailcloth to fly out of the window into the other one. And yes, the music is lacking too. There aren't even any classic tunes in here like the shop song, though there are very pale versions of the Epona and Rito songs. People said there were no memorable tunes in Skyward Sword, but oh man...
Cube Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 I managed to bypass a puzzle completely by tilting a room and using the sailcloth to fly out of the window into the other one. That's exactly why the puzzles in this game are better than in any previous Zelda game.
Grazza Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 Got to agree with pretty much everything @Hero\-of\-Time has said. Look at the mirror puzzle in Wind Waker where you use the mirror shield and then tell me the shrines and dungeons in BotW are up to scratch. The lack of a Mirror Shield is a personal bugbear of mine! The "Classic Three" (OOT/MM/WW) all have shield control with R, with the Mirror Shield being the best shield. Nowadays, it's like the Hylian Shield has to be the best shield, just because fans are used to the imagery (same as the green clothes). Twilight Princess had shield control with R taken out before release, and Skyward Sword could never have it in (both for the same reason). Assigning the Bow to R does work, but I do miss shields being controlled with R, especially now we have a controller that can handle it again. I managed to bypass a puzzle completely by tilting a room and using the sailcloth to fly out of the window into the other one. This is a microcosm of the game. Whilst I love BotW's physics engine, I agree that it's better to have some sort of form (such as the excellent Mirror Shield puzzle from Wind Waker that you mention).
Ronnie Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 I've lost count how many times I've suddenly noticed it's 2am and thinking I should put the game down and get to bed. "Ok, I'll just take out this Lizalfo camp and then get to bed. Oh is that Kass over there, I'll wander over. Oh wait, there's a cooking pot, I need to stock up on provisions. Back to Kass' side mission. Oooh a Shrine puzzle. Oh it's 4am.... Sure the game has flaws, sure it may need a bit more story/dungeons/whatever, but it's a spectacular foundation and is a masterclass of world design, as we've come to expect from Nintendo. A truly special game I've constantly being blown away by. I haven't felt this way about a game in a long, long time. Probably since Ocarina of Time.
Tales Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) Finished the game just now. 96 hours, all shrines, all memories, complete compedium and 277 korok seeds. I never had a problem with weapons breaking, I think it was a great thing, it made searching out Goblin camps and opening chests more rewarding. As for the cons I hated the rain, it was ruining the one thing the game resolved around. And perhaps a weak, basic story, but it's a whole lot better than any other Zelda. But in all, loved the game. Possible best Zelda for me. But I don't it's the best open world game. It's not just the story, but the general lore, history, and the people you meet is weak or non existant. The realistic world building is what made games like Witcher 3, Skyrim and Horizon so much better. For me BotW is anything but alive in that regard. But seriously, I still think it was a fantastic game. I was great world to explore. I really hope Nintendo makes the next Zelda like this one, but with a stronger narrative. Edited March 18, 2017 by Tales
Pestneb Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) Well.. I've not gotten far at all in this game... been chatting with family/fiancée most of the time, so I've not really gotten into it so far. Having a bit of an issue with the controls, I think I must have tapped something by mistake. basically a couple of times I seem to have unequipped my bow/hand weapon mid battle, have to go into the equip screen to set it... also sometimes I have been able to press left to select my shield, right to change bow.. but unable to select a different weapon? or able to select hand weapon but not bow?? idk, I really haven't had a good chance to sit down and get to grips with the game (well.. yesterday evening but I was sat waiting for it to download :|) Came across one guardian... I wasn't feeling up for a fight and from the video I saw didn't fancy my chances of surviving the encounter and teleported out. Felt a bit cheap, although I did only just make it, had I been a little slower I feel I'd have been vaporised Not asking for a spoiler here, just wondering if it is possible for link to beat one of those things straight away at the start of the game, or are there abilities/weapons etc that would need unlocking before it is feasible? I've seen a gif that seemed to show one being vaporised so... I know eventually it is possible. Just figured I'd probably need something a bit more substantial than a branch and wooden arrows.... Had a few cool things. Dived into that first pond, first attempt landed on a fish and managed to grab it is there any way to learn how to cook (like people share recipe's) or is it trial and error? I've toasted things but don't count that as cooking.. still yet to make my first dish... I don't want to waste ingredients!! Edited March 18, 2017 by Pestneb
Cube Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 @Pestneb With no weapon out/melee weapon out - Left D-pad: Change shields - Right D-pad: change melee weapon. With bow out/holding right trigger: - Left D-pad: Change arrows - Right D-pad: change bows. And you can beat a Guardian right from the start.
Ronnie Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 40 hours in and I've just done my first dungeon. Blown away. Such a clever idea. Sure it was shorter/easier than the usual 3D dungeons but it still managed to feel epic.
Pestneb Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 Well now I've played the game a bit more, gotten a good view of things. I'm not feeling confident with a lot of the enemies I've come across. I'm actually enjoying that I feel I need to avoid encounters. I've reached 3 towers... gotten the camera for the tablet. Feels a little bit like animal crossing Horse riding is nice... my horse can be a bit stubborn for my liking, but it makes travelling distances much quicker and safer! I'm still a bit dubious about facing up to a guardian.. though I will have to eventually I suppose. In terms of improving link.. would people suggest boosting heart containers or stamina? Anyway.. having fun exploring the world, pretty sure this game will last me till I get a switch
Grazza Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 I'm still a bit dubious about facing up to a guardian.. though I will have to eventually I suppose. Once you've got a Guardian/Ancient Shield, you can defeat the Guardians surprisingly easy just by deflecting their blast (you have to parry at the right time, but it's not particularly difficult). In terms of improving link.. would people suggest boosting heart containers or stamina? Hearts all the way! You can make a potion for the few times you'll need an extra bit of stamina. If you need stamina for climbing, there are clothes to get around that. I actually think the best way to play the game is: * Get 13 hearts (starting 3 + 40 shrines) * Obtain Master Sword * Complete dungeons * By this point you will have 17 hearts, even without completing any more shrines Anyway, that's just a rambling thought. There are reasons to think you "should" have the Master Sword for the dungeons, even though you don't really need it.
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