Daft Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 Seems like no one has posted the megaton PS4 news. This day is a great day.
Deathjam Posted June 29, 2013 Posted June 29, 2013 Seems like no one has posted the megaton PS4 news. This day is a great day. Had to view a cached version of that website as the link seems broken but that is indeed good news.
jayseven Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Shorty makes a good point -- seriously, why is the d-pad still considered a primary control option? The beat-'em-up argument is invalid. If anything, it's just used for menu perusal, right? I suppose I'm coming from an xbox-thumbed perspective and my hands assume a certain position by default... but still, is it too early to give the left hand more respect and replace the d-pad with further control buttons? We've got the xyab/squaretrianglecirclecross formation on one side, I think we have enough hemispheres in our brain to cope with extra functions on the other side. Hell, even putting an N64-style C-pad there would offer more functionality than the d-pad... even though it's the same thing except alphabetically altered. Shit. Did I just solve my own problem? Darn.
Daft Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Not sure where to post this but this is an awesome watch. Really had no idea Mark Cerny was so integral to Playstation since the very first days. We might not have Naughty Dog we love if it weren't for him. And Yoshida, too. Really smart guys, setting up the ICE team. Really cannot wait to see what these guys can do now they're in charge of the PS4. Edited June 30, 2013 by Daft
Deathjam Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Shorty makes a good point -- seriously, why is the d-pad still considered a primary control option? The beat-'em-up argument is invalid. If anything, it's just used for menu perusal, right? I suppose I'm coming from an xbox-thumbed perspective and my hands assume a certain position by default... but still, is it too early to give the left hand more respect and replace the d-pad with further control buttons? We've got the xyab/squaretrianglecirclecross formation on one side, I think we have enough hemispheres in our brain to cope with extra functions on the other side. Hell, even putting an N64-style C-pad there would offer more functionality than the d-pad... even though it's the same thing except alphabetically altered. Shit. Did I just solve my own problem? Darn. Why? For beat-em-ups nothing but the dpad will suffice (on a standard controller that is).
jayseven Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Because it's not the primary kind of game, so why should it get the prime controller real estate?
Deathjam Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Because it's not the primary kind of game, so why should it get the prime controller real estate? What does this even mean? More opinion than fact if I understand you correctly. Look, there are plenty of beat-em-ups that are very popular and I can give you a whole list if you want. The fact is that the play horribly with an analogue stick. You just don't get that desired accuracy. Then there are games, such as puzzle games that are designed around a digital input. Bad example possibly but can you imagine playing tetris with analogue controls? Controllers should be designed for all games, not the select few. In fact, the shitty dpad design on the 360 pad was one reason why I didn't want an xbox.
Sheikah Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 As much as I would like the left analogue stick where the D-pad is, placing the D-pad lower down absolutely kills it. That was pretty much the case with both the gamecube and 360 pads. Reaching D-down with your left thumb was not at all intuitive. The D-pad does still have a pretty good use outside of beat 'em ups, most notably being to quick switch between items or weapons.
dwarf Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 And for PS1 games that don't support analogues. Playing Crash Bandicoot with the 360 D-Pad would be a scarring experience.
Deathjam Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 And for PS1 games that don't support analogues. Was gonna mention that but it's probably another invalid argument as "backwards compatibility is backwards"
jayseven Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 @Deathjam I mean look at the top 20 best-selling games and see whether the primary control is for d-pad or control stick. I'm not disputing the functionality of the d-pad in non-beat-em-up games, just saying that if you follow statistics it makes more sense to give the primary control area to the control stick, which is the primary control method for the majority of games. I'm not disputing the benefits of the d-pad here, just disputing its location.
Cube Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 @jayseven: As someone who was making these very same arguments a few years ago: The PS3 analogue stick positions are actually pretty fine and don't bother me at all when I start playing. I can swap between the two controllers easily. The big problem is the shape of the tops, which is being fixed. What @Deathjam is referring to: - The analogue stick on the PS3 controller is perfectly fine where it is. - The D-Pad on the 360 controller is useless for anything except menus. With how raised the analogue sticks are, they're easier to reach than a fairly flat D-pad.
Deathjam Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 @Cube read my mind. @jayseven: thing is, the controllers that did relegate the dpad as you suggest had horrible dpads as well. I don't know if this was the end result, or a reason to promote the left analogue stick. Prime offenders: Dreamcast - dpad so bad up meant down Gamecube - dpad so sharp I could shave my face with it Xbox - similar problem as dreamcast but so terrible that whole thing feels like one button As it is why fix a feature that isn't broken for many users?
Shorty Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Who cares if the d-pad is relegated, small, or crap? The d-pad is useless on both consoles, except in fighters, that's why it's better having a less comfortable spot on the 360. If you take fighters seriously, you can buy a dedicated pad which is better than all the default options. Also the dual shock's (2 and 3) analogue sticks have always felt far too lose, there's too little resistance keeping them from snapping to one side, harder to push them in precise increments. They actually look a bit nicer on the DS4, but that's the only aspect of it I'm liking.
Deathjam Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Who cares if the d-pad is relegated, small, or crap? The d-pad is useless on both consoles, except in fighters, that's why it's better having a less comfortable spot on the 360. If you take fighters seriously, you can buy a dedicated pad which is better than all the default options. Also the dual shock's (2 and 3) analogue sticks have always felt far too lose, there's too little resistance keeping them from snapping to one side, harder to push them in precise increments. They actually look a bit nicer on the DS4, but that's the only aspect of it I'm liking. You would think that would be the case but having done said option, trust me it isn't. Buying an arcade stick blows for people who never got into fighters when they were in the arcades AND those things are way too expensive anyways. DS3 , bar the shoulder buttons, is fine as it is. Hence the reason why the DS4 has hardly changed.
Diageo Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 The control stick doesn't need a dedicated area. It's a small stick that needs little space. It's perfectly mobile in the place it is. Putting it in a place where it takes up more controller space is pointless.
jayseven Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 The point about the d-pad being better on the DS than other consoles is completely fair enough, I'll accept that. The issue of the control stick being poorer on the DS is fair enough as well. The fact that the control stick is still perfectly useable is also a decent point -- if it was unbearable then the pad would've been "fixed" by now otherwise gamers would've given up already. I just think that the space on the controller could surely be better utilised in this day and age. Is nobody willing to pay that thought and see where their brains can run with it? It's much easier to defend the d-pad than it is to try and constructively imagine that there is a better thing. I guess I'm not being clear, and it's late for me so I don't want to spend the words tonight. Maybe next time.
Sheikah Posted July 1, 2013 Posted July 1, 2013 Who cares if the d-pad is relegated, small, or crap? The d-pad is useless on both consoles, except in fighters, that's why it's better having a less comfortable spot on the 360. If you take fighters seriously, you can buy a dedicated pad which is better than all the default options. Also the dual shock's (2 and 3) analogue sticks have always felt far too lose, there's too little resistance keeping them from snapping to one side, harder to push them in precise increments. They actually look a bit nicer on the DS4, but that's the only aspect of it I'm liking. The D pad is used quite extensively for a lot of games. Maybe not on the 360, since the D pad sucks. It has a good few uses that are really handy - quick item/weapon selection, hotkeys and menu selection. The menu selection is really important for games where the menu/inventory doesn't pause the game - you can still move with the analogue stick while also navigating the menu (which worked really well in games like PSO). The argument for the 'necessity' of the analogue stick being higher up for it to be comfortable is pretty much defeated by the fact the right stick is in the very place that apparently causes such a problem (something no one conveniently seems to find uncomfortable). This is despite the right stick being used just as much in most games in the form of camera movement. If it's a choice between an ever-so-slightly better placement of the left analogue and having a workable D-pad then it's the D-pad, every time.
Cookyman Posted July 2, 2013 Posted July 2, 2013 Good interview with Jack Tretton on this weeks Up at Noon.
flameboy Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 The Play Room tech demo thing comes preloaded on the PS4: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-playstation-4-augmented-reality-app-the-playroom-comes-pre-loaded I guess it is kind of pointless seem as the camera isn't bundled but I suppose if it plays a sizzle reel of the fun you could enjoy then some people may go out and get a camera. I probably won't buy it straight off but its worth pointing out I ended up with two camera's this gen, I bought eyepet+camera for £5 to use with students at work and then when my phat PS3 broke the cheapest bundle I could get was with a move starter kit. So who know I could end with one somehow.
Cookyman Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 Source CVG The Playroom, the PlayStation 4 tech demo shown off during this year's E3, will come pre-loaded on every PlayStation 4 console. That's according to a post on the official PlayStation website. Playroom combines the PlayStation Camera and the DualShock 4 controller to present the player with a number of augmented reality toys, in order to show off the capabilities of both peripherals working together. Players are able to spawn Asobi, a tiny floating robot, which 'appears' in your living room and interacts by scanning your face and shooting fireballs. Playroom can also create the illusion of hundreds of tiny robots inside your DualShock controller, letting players scatter them onto the floor of the room. The tech demo is also intended to show how the PlayStation 4 can interact with other devices. Players can use their smartphone, tablet or PlayStation Vita to draw an object then flick it 'into' the screen for robots to play with. Although The PlayRoom will be included on every PlayStation 4 console, only those with a PlayStation Camera (sold separately) will be able to use it. Reports suggest that the PlayStation Camera was originally supposed to be bundled with the PlayStation 4, but Sony decided to sell it separately to undercut the Xbox One price.
Daft Posted July 4, 2013 Posted July 4, 2013 A glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something.
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