dazzybee Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Assuming Nintendo's Wii 3/etc console launches in 2016 or early 2017, by the time the PS4/Nextbox come out that Nintendo console will be outmatched again. So even if it was supported by a smattering of ports, it wouldn't be for long. Unless they continue Wii U right up until the end of the other console's lifetimes then they've no chance of matching on hardware, because technology improves massively in even just a few years. Thus, software will suffer again. I don't think anyone here thinks they're going to keep the Wii U going that long given how the state of things are. Depends ho long the PS4/One last, maybe they release their console next year, maybe it'll be incredibly long generation (I certainly hope so) then it could still have a good 5 years or so. You seem to be falling back on the 'who knows what will happen' air of mystery. The truth is, Nintendo show no huge signs of adopting a PS4-esque 'for the (core) gamer' approach with the intention of taking on the other 2 consoles, which is basically how PS4 got people to switch. So long as they don't, they're not going to become the console of choice for the kinds of games that attract youth (like somebody mentioned, FIFA and COD). The exception would be if they came up with a 'wonder' game with the impact of something like Minecraft or Wii Sports. But really, that sort of wonder could happen for anyone and we've no reason to really believe that's going to happen here. But it's true, I'm mainly combatting people certainty all is lost; and my whole point with all this was just - you never know, each generation resets and gaming attitudes change so quickly I really don't think we can be certain on anything. As for Nintendo don't look like they could change. I guess I just presume they're not blind. They've seen how their approach has failed miserably, and how successful Sony's approach has been. I don't think they're blind to this and to what gears want. I think they tried a risk with wii and it worked and tried again anti failed miserably. You'd have to be an idiot not to see where the people nintendo went for have gone and what's been left. I also do so positive change; but they can only do so much. I think new IP is very important as it provides a fresh experience that can grab new audiences. I really do think that Nintendo do need to focus more on it, as, well as moving away from very formulaic ways of making specific game series (e.g. NSMB). Fair enough, I really don't, especially in attracting new audiences. I think new ip is great, nintendo do create new ip, but new ip targeted towards adult gamers (can't remember your specific wording now) I just don't feel is a he issue. I just think a variety of genres is needed, not necessarily young/adult/teen games. The problem with a gimmick is that it's a lottery, and one that really hurt their current console in terms of its popularity and pricing. In contrast to this, listening to your gamers, working with developers to include features they want and making the machine that ultimately wants is no lottery. Saying that they might make a gimmick that people adore like the Wii (which is the scale of gimmick they really would need to really be a home console success again) is really stretching it, to be honest. They've only ever made a home console with that level of hype around a gimmick once. I don't think we should really entertain what so far seems to be a one hit wonder event. I agree, my point wasn't it WILL have some huge gimmick that could get people back, my point was the opposite, it could easily not. That's what I meant. Personally, I still love nintendo are different to sony and one who play the same strategy, very safe, same thing every gen, I still think nintendo should applauded for doing things differently, whether it works or not. Last point, with regards to this, I couldn't disagree more. All the problems together represent one colossal, incredibly different problem that is in no way easy to fix. The image problem alone is a difficult fix, without even accounting for the other problems. Mainly, the catch up they'd have to do in terms of tech in line with the competition is humongous, even if they even managed to regain goodwill with third parties. It's overwhelmingly more likely that they're not going to fix these problems and become a worldwide home console contender. I think it's really easy. Matching online is extremely easy, it already has an infinitely more reliable service than PSN Adding party chat and improving the services is easy. Creating a powerful machine is easy to do. The problems are easy to fix. It would then be a machine more people would buy and play. How much more, who knows. But what is the criteria you're placing on it to say it wouldn't work? Or do you think doing this there'd barely be an increase at all in sales?
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 You didn't address image though - that's their biggest problem, maybe. And their third party relations. They get thrown into the problem mix, making for an overall very difficult problem for Nintendo to address. Sony and Microsoft have already dug in their roots in what is now a maturing games industry. They're the ones getting the third party games and have good relationships with them. Also, how can developing a reliable and feature rich online infrastructure quickly be 'easy'? Sony have been developing theirs for years and you think that'd crap, so that pretty much flies in the face of what you just said. If they had to scale up their online in fracture to Sony/MS level, how could that be so easy?
dazzybee Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 If they had party chat and notification system they wouldn't need much more. It's not like they haven't been developing their own service for years either. They still have shops, DLC, smooth online play etc. As for image, this is the biggest barrier of all, I agree. But what is the ultimate criteria, I'm a little confused? I feel their bad image is primarily because they seem to not take online seriously and don't have 3rd party support; these seem huge barriers - it's been going on for years. Post SNES they've had reasons to turn 3rd parties away, and they still haven't shown they're willing to take online seriously; so actually, we haven't seen a nintendo compete in these areas to redact their image.
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 How does that imply that? I DO think they will but how does it imply it? I quoted this bit: The only thing damaging Nintendo's future is nintendo. They sort their problems it'll be fine. Mainly that second sentence with the it'll be fine part...it just seems to downplay the problems as being minor, or at least it reads that way. To me, the problems are of a great number and it's going to take years to turn this around. It's not like all they need to do is flick a switch. 1. If Nintendo created a console at parity with the other console archtecturally then they'd get way more third party ports. In thceory, yes. But, there's more to it than being in-line with the others. Nintendo are seen as out-of-touch by many and they've seriously harmed their relationship with third parties. Just having a new, shiny console isn't enough. They will need to rethink their philosophy and image...something you can't just do overnight. 2. They don't have them now, doesn't mean they won't have them next gen? Who'd have thought the insane amount of xbox players would've jumped ship so quickly? Or all the sega/nintendo gamers to sonys new playstation? You underestimate how fickle young people are. I know exactly how fickle young people are as I come into contact with them everyday. Nintendo is not even in the picture to a large portion of that audience and I don't think Nintendo currently have what it takes to change the mindset of these younger gamers. Their relationship with EA has been harmed and it's going to take a lot of work to repair that. If younger gamers/teenagers have already played on the 360/ps3 and are jumping to the One/PS4, they're going to be already familiar with that particular brand. There's no real incentive for them to change. 3. I don't think this is that big an issue. Especially into the future when everything is digital downloads and streaming services. It's an issue now and it also shows Nintendo's perception about what the console is all about. Even now with digital downloads, the PS4 and One ship with a 500gb hard-drive, which will no doubt need replacing eventually. But...the WiiU came with a paltry 32gb...digital downloads are coming to the forefront now and the WiiU is behind there from day one. Based on the trend of how things have been since the GameCube (even back with the N64 where they stuck with unpopular cartridges over CDs),history is going against Nintendo in this respect. They will need to seriously rethink their stance on all of this. Again, not easy to fix and it will take time. 4. Possibly. I don't think relying on old IP is a bad thing though. Zelda attracts an older crowd, metered does, zero could, smash and Mario kart do. Who's to say they WON'T create new IP. I don't think this is that important though. This is a huge problem for Nintendo because they need to step into the future and start drawing in new crowds. The Wii did this so well but it also alienated a certain type of gamer. Relying on old IPs is both good and bad; good because it means that you have a repertoire to work with, bad because it means that the same few titles keep cropping up. New games are going to be what draws new people in. Just like WiiSports did at the time or Brain Training. 5. But a lot of people bought the wii so not that many people were put off by it. Who's to say the next console will have some huge gimmick It worked for the Wii at the time, so where is the same audience who bought that console? They've abandoned Nintendo. The ones who got burned by the motion controls simply haven't come back and the casuals see no real reason to pick up the WiiU as it doesn't really have the same pick-up-and-play feel that the Wiimote and WiiSports brought at the time. The moment has come and gone in this respect. (plus they fucked up the branding right at the start...I still don't think many of the casuals know that the WiiU is an entirely new console. Not convinced in the slightest) 6. They have a huge image problem. It's what's hurting them and the only thing lifting Sony to such giddy heights (partly down to things dine right before people start crying) It's not the ONLY thing lifting Sony or even putting Microsoft on the gaming map. They've established a reputation with gamers and there's a trust there that certain games will appear, or that the majority of third party releases will release on both. There's a trust there that the new CoD will get released, or Battlefield, or Fifa, or the newest thing from Ubisoft. There's a trust that the version planned for these systems will not be missing any key features or online modes, etc. Nintendo's reputation, by contrast, isn't the same. How many of us still ask daily if Splatoon will have voice-chat? How many of us were uncertain if WatchDogs would actually release on the WiiU? What about when Colonial Marines got canned? (the game is shit, but the point still stands. At least it still came out on the other systems, so they had a chance to try it for themselves. Nintendo owners got shafted, yet again) 7. They're embracing it more, but who's to say they won't go all in over the next few years and be absolutely ready for next gen, it wouldn't be difficult to do. If it was as simple as you say, it would be there now. This goes for basically all of your points. Nintendo, supposedly, have the brightest minds in the business working for them. They've been in the business for so long that they should know what gamers expect by now and they should know when they've fucked up. The 360 had party chat, the PS2 had DVDs (blu-rays for PS3) and even the SNES had FIFA. To have NONE of these available is shocking business. You won't necessarily gain sales by having one of these features, but you can sure as hell lose sales if the consumer knows that they can get a better deal elsewhere. All of your problems are relatively easy fixes, you've completely assumed nintendo won't/can't do any of these things. I'm not saying they will, but my only point was, they fix their huge errors and they'll be in a far better position. What they need to fix, as your list proves in my opinion, is that it isn't actually much! I've sorta answered this above. If they were supposedly easy fixes, then I'm confident that Nintendo could have done this by now. This either shows that they seriously didn't have a clue what they were doing with the WiiU or that their entire outlook on what modern gaming is does not fit in with what the current gamer expects. Sorry Dazzy, I love you brah and would lose to you at FIFA anytime until the end of time, but...that last part is absolutely ridiculous. There is so, so much work that needs to be done that I'm not even sure one generation (after the WiiU) is enough time to do it. They've made basic errors since the N64 days and basically all of their problems have come back to haunt them in some capacity. These are deep-rooted problems that are now 4 generations old! If they were seriously easy to fix, we would have seen some results by now and I mean meaningful results.
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) If they had party chat and notification system they wouldn't need much more. It's not like they haven't been developing their own service for years either. They still have shops, DLC, smooth online play etc. It's a host of things that can't even be tested in the current state. Think about how many multiplayer games there were on 360/PS3, and how they mostly all were making heavy use of the internet (ie. players fighting against or co-operating with each other). Imagine tons of games all running on your network at once, people voice chatting with each other at once, people messaging each other...then throw into the mix twitch streaming, comparing trophies/achievements, party chat...because if they don't adopt all that on their next machine, people will just be complaining how it's yet again a generation behind (as PS4 would be the previous gen then). Tell me that their network can support all that at a level they've never even been close to and that it will be 'easy' for them. And all that from never having done all of this before, either. Heck, even Sony's messaging is struggling! You think Nintendo could easily manage it without there being serious problems, despite not even having an (initially rather wonky) PS3 style online service to play around with the generation before? No chance there, I reckon. As for image, this is the biggest barrier of all, I agree. But what is the ultimate criteria, I'm a little confused? I feel their bad image is primarily because they seem to not take online seriously and don't have 3rd party support; these seem huge barriers - it's been going on for years. Post SNES they've had reasons to turn 3rd parties away, and they still haven't shown they're willing to take online seriously; so actually, we haven't seen a nintendo compete in these areas to redact their image. Far worse now dazzy - much of the third party support that they used to have is gone. Nintendo always had some level of support but you have to admit, now it is truly gone and the other two consoles are more differentiated than ever. The system hardware is leagues apart and it's seen as a lite console. You can't just say it's the same as how it's always been, because it's far worse. And also, if you go down the path of "this is how it always is" then why would you consider that they might be something else - ie. competing with the others again? Surely if they behave as they always have, not getting third party support, then that's agreeing that they're going to continue to struggle? Edited January 9, 2015 by Sheikah
Babooo Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 A little bird tells me that Rime won't release this year
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 I will drop a bollock if Rime doesn't make it out this year. Also, where the fuck is Journeeeeeey? Hope we get that soon. Never played it on PS3 so I'm itching to have a go.
bryanee Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 So I was playing Shadow Warrior and I killed a lil rabbit then things go nuts.
Shorty Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 My favourite part is when you decide that killing another one might help.
bryanee Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 lol yeah. I was like fuck bunnies, I saw the two actually making sweet bunny love so I took them out as well.
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Bitches, I'm looking to upgrade my HDD and I'm thinking of going for this. £79.99 from Amazon. Is there any reason at all not to do this? Let me just make sure I get this right. I've uploaded all of my saves to the cloud. It did this automatically when the PS4 was in rest mode yesterday, so I'm good there, right? It'll just be a case of swap out the HDD and redownloading my stuff, yes? Anyone else done it? 2TB is the size I'm going for.
Shorty Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I did it on my PS3, yeah you're fine. You can manually check all your saves are in there or make another copy to a USB drive if it makes you feel better. Might want to save any videos you've made too if you haven't uploaded them by sharing them. A cheaper option, get this extenal drive and remove it from its enclosure. As seen in . Mind you, you'd void the warranty and you know how I feel about Seagate :p The one you originally posted is slightly cheaper here Edited January 12, 2015 by Shorty
Sheikah Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Bitches, I'm looking to upgrade my HDD and I'm thinking of going for this. £79.99 from Amazon. Is there any reason at all not to do this? Let me just make sure I get this right. I've uploaded all of my saves to the cloud. It did this automatically when the PS4 was in rest mode yesterday, so I'm good there, right? It'll just be a case of swap out the HDD and redownloading my stuff, yes? Anyone else done it? 2TB is the size I'm going for. I can confirm that the one Shorty posted is the same drive inside (Samsung M9) despite it being a Seagate. So you're just paying extra for the same thing. Importantly, both links you and Shorty posted are 9.5 mm high which means it'll fit in the PS4.
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I did it on my PS3, yeah you're fine. You can manually check all your saves are in there or make another copy to a USB drive if it makes you feel better. Might want to save any videos you've made too if you haven't uploaded them by sharing them. A cheaper option, get this extenal drive and remove it from its enclosure. As seen in . Mind you, you'd void the warranty and you know how I feel about Seagate :p The one you originally posted is slightly cheaper here I can confirm that the one Shorty posted is the same drive inside (Samsung M9) despite it being a Seagate. So you're just paying extra for the same thing. Importantly, both links you and Shorty posted are 9.5 mm high which means it'll fit in the PS4. Thanks to both of you. But, I am now confused because Shorty took the piss out of seagate on Jordan's facebook post. So...are they actually ok or will my PS4 be borked within a month? Help me, jeebus.
Sheikah Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 It's the same Samsung drive inside, Seagate really have little to do with it. :p
Shorty Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 The issue is the warranty really. Crack open the expansion drive to save a tenner and your warranty is void. Guess it depends if you want to live dangerously :p I'd probably risk it.
Sheikah Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 You'll be fine Flink, of all the many hard drives I've ever had not one has ever fucked up. There's a purely anecdotal bit of consolation. Sure they can fail, but I can't imagine the fail rate is all that high (and in my opinion, a lot of people who break their stuff are often the ones to treat their things like shit).
Tales Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Checked my hardrive the other day and was very surprised to see I had less than 40 gb left. So I am going to buy a new HDD too. this looks like the one I need right? It looks like it's same one Flink consider buying. Edited January 12, 2015 by Tales
somme Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 My HDD already filled the other week and had to delete some downloaded games. I should probably get a bigger HDD but I am terrible at technical stuff and am quite scared I'll either blow myself or the PS4 up. Or just lose everything.
Sheikah Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 My HDD already filled the other week and had to delete some downloaded games. I should probably get a bigger HDD but I am terrible at technical stuff and am quite scared I'll either blow myself or the PS4 up. Or just lose everything. Don't worry, it's so easy. All you do is slide it in. Foolproof.
somme Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Don't worry, it's so easy. All you do is slide it in. Foolproof. I'll definitely have to look into it then. Cheers.
Jimbob Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Not had a problem with HDD space, still considering upgrading it. Only ever keep games on if i'm currently playing them, if they are done or i've not played them for a month i delete.
Happenstance Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 The Last of Us Remastered to be bundled with PS4 as standard Sony has today announced that its 500GB PS4 bundle will now include The Last of Us: Remastered as standard for no additional cost. If you’ve managed to hold out on upgrading to PS4 for this long or if you have a stack of gift cards laying around after the holidays, now is the perfect time to get in on the action. This new bundle will begin appearing at participating retailers over the next few days for the usual price of around £329.99
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