General Gaming Sales/Charts Discussion

[Dcubed]

I thought the Gamecube days were laborious but this is worse...

 

The biggest face palm moment for me was watching E3 and seeing that Mario Kart wasn't coming out this year. Especially as that one-two MK and SML3D punch on the 3DS was really effective. That was just an epic fail right there.

 

I mean how many times have Nintendo made MK games? They should be able to absolutely rattle them out by now - HD or not.

And if it's taking a while (as they have said), why not appease your frustrated customers by releasing a retail digital/e-shop demo of Mario Kart worldwide - with a few tracks for christmas at least? Hell, you may even secure some sales from such a release. (even that E3 demo would have been nice Ninty...)

They could even release an e-shop D/L of Mario Sunshine for Summer or Mario Kart Double Dash in anticipation for the new Kart. just...something other than the usual drip-drip-drip of 8/16-Bit VC games.

 

I also think that the new Mario is an unknown territory in a similar vein to NintendoLand. Nintendo are brave releasing a title that isn't an 'epic' 3D Mario action game but I figure they are trying to unearth that wii sports 'gem' like last time. If they can't find it I figure they should...

 

Release Wii Sports 2 just before Christmas and go after the 100 million (can't be wrong) Wii owners. Even if most folk think those customers have moved on to Candycrush, if a minority of those consumers take the plunge for Wii Sports 2- sales should increase substantially. Nintendo should market the hell out of that saying 'it's the sequel you've been waiting for' and 'The biggest selling sports game in recent years returns in HD with added aspects including XYZ... (and bowling :P)

 

Hell, instead of Mario and Sonic at the winter olympics, make Wii Sports: Winter Edition.

 

And get NST working on racers instead of incremental web browser updates.

 

Well said. The Wii U's main problem is the horrendous lack of 1st party developed/published titles and while there are great titles coming, they're coming far too late.

 

Super Mario 3D World on its own, or even combined with DKCTF/Wii Party U/Wind Waker HD is not enough. That 2014 lineup really should've been hitting the console this year - by then, it'll be too late for them to have any real impact.

 

If the likes of Mario Kart 8, Bayonetta 2, X and Yarn Yoshi (SSB4 had no chance of ever coming out in 2014 and even that might be a stretch) were all coming out alongside this year's titles, then the console might've stood a chance.

 

As it stands, its lineup just isn't good enough

[Serebii]

Only in 2013 is a lineup of 3D Mario (with multiplayer), a HD remake of one of the most beloved Zelda games, a new Donkey Kong game, a sequel to the popular Wii Party, a sequel to the phenomenon Wii Fit, a new IP and a new Pikmin game be an insufficient line-up. Ideally Mario Kart should be in it too, to force it to be a hit, but alas.

[Dcubed]

Only in 2013 is a lineup of 3D Mario (with multiplayer), a HD remake of one of the most beloved Zelda games, a new Donkey Kong game, a sequel to the popular Wii Party, a sequel to the phenomenon Wii Fit, a new IP and a new Pikmin game be an insufficient line-up. Ideally Mario Kart should be in it too, to force it to be a hit, but alas.

 

The problem here though is that out of all of those games, only one really has a solid chance of moving a significant amount of systems (Super Mario 3D World).

 

Wind Waker HD is a port of a 10 year old game. It's a nice addition to the lineup, but it in of itself will not push units (why would it? It's a game that prospective Wii U owners probably already own!). Likewise, Wii Party U and Wii Fit U will not have nearly the same clout as their predecessors.

 

That just leaves DKCTF, which I'm sceptical about its prospects when you consider that the Wii U already has a major 2D platformer under its belt (It'll no doubt sell massively to the existing audience, but who would by a Wii U for that game alone when they weren't interested in NSMBU?)

 

Nintendo's obviously banking on the effect of having a library of titles to sell, rather than having just the one massive title, but I question whether or not their current combo is enough. I'd be feeling much more confident if they could include Mario Kart 8, X, Yarn Yoshi and Bayonetta 2 in that lineup, because I get the feeling that the lineup is still going to fall short of reaching that tipping point...

[Serebii]

The problem here though is that out of all of those games, only one really has a solid chance of moving a significant amount of systems (Super Mario 3D World).

 

Wind Waker HD is a port of a 10 year old game. It's a nice addition to the lineup, but it in of itself will not push units (why would it? It's a game that prospective Wii U owners probably already own!). Likewise, Wii Party U and Wii Fit U will not have nearly the same clout as their predecessors.

 

That just leaves DKCTF, which I'm sceptical about its prospects when you consider that the Wii U already has a major 2D platformer under its belt (It'll no doubt sell massively to the existing audience, but who would by a Wii U for that game alone when they weren't interested in NSMBU?)

 

Nintendo's obviously banking on the effect of having a library of titles to sell, rather than having just the one massive title, but I question whether or not their current combo is enough. I'd be feeling much more confident if they could include Mario Kart 8, X, Yarn Yoshi and Bayonetta 2 in that lineup, because I get the feeling that the lineup is still going to fall short of reaching that tipping point...

X, Yarn Yoshi and Bayonetta have the same lack of potential pulling power as the rest

[Dcubed]

X, Yarn Yoshi and Bayonetta have the same lack of potential pulling power as the rest

 

Yeah, but if they were all combined together at years' end then they'd have a much stronger impact than they would do when spread out across 2014!

 

Look back to 2009, when the Wii was revived from its post 2008-mid 2009 slump. It was saved by the triple combo of Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit Plus and NSMB Wii. It was the power of those games combined within a short span of time that revived the console.

 

Likewise, the 3DS was revived by the triple combo of SM3DL, MK7 and MH3U - all released together at around the same time.

 

Hell look at what the 3DS is going through now in the west! Out of the games released this year, the only one that truly has massive system selling power is Animal Crossing NL, but the console's sales starting their upswing well before that, because of the combination of quality (but not necessarily huge system selling) titles, in a short span of time and in a consistant manner.

 

Think like Pikmin. Scattered, they are weak, but together they are powerful!

 

It's still possible that they can achieve this effect, so long as those 2014 games all hit before March (Smash Bros 4 can still be excluded). If they fail to keep a consistent schedule going until MK8, they might as well not bother then.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Dcubed

[Zechs Merquise]

Look, it's very simple really. Nintendo developed the ultimate strategy to get the wider audience on board:

 

They released a console at a sweet price point £175, this was within the impulse purchase range for most people. The console had everything you needed to play in the box, including a must have game. The control method was simple and appealing and could be used by anyone. Finally they advertised the console well, with simple clear adverts that featured recognised and liked household names.

 

Then came the Wii U. They threw everything out the window.

 

They released a console that was £300 - outside the impulse buy range. Out of the box it didn't have a must have title and lacked a Wii remote which was still being pushed as one of the main ways to play the console. The control method was clumsy and far too complicated for normal people and not intuitive in the slightest. This is born out in the on screen instructions which actually tell you where to look! What's more with so many control schemes for each game it gets even more confusing. Finally they didn't advertise it enough and the adverts were poor - what's more the horrible choice of name lead to greater confusion as people couldn't tell what the console was.

 

It's like Nintendo didn't learn from the successes. But nor did they learn from their failures. The Gamecube/GBA link up was one of the biggest white elephants in gaming history. The idea was to create asymmetric game play - in the end it was an expensive curiosity enjoyed by few. Why on earth they chose that model as a basis for a new console is beyond comprehension. If four people wanted to play Wii Sports they all just picked up a Wii remote. For four people to enjoy Nintendo Land it's not simple at all, in fact it's a bit of a ball ache for normal people.

 

All Nintendo needed to do for success this generation was repeat what they did with the Wii. Release a relatively cheap console (maybe £199 this time), pack it with a must have game (NSMB, Wii Sports HD etc), stick to the simple controls (Motion+ out of the box this time and a redesigned classic controller for people who want it) and then advertise it just as any company with common sense would - "the follow up to the best selling Wii console - the Wii HD". Throw in the fact it would have been backwards compatible and be able to use all the old accessories and they would have had at the worst decent and stable sales.

 

But no, they couldn't do that. They tried to reinvent the wheel again and this time they fell flat on there face. The sad thing is, they don't seem to want to do anything to rectify the problem.

[liger05]

Sony's gaming division recorded a larger loss than Nintendo within the last quarter, three times larger at $175m

 

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/13q1_sony.pdf

 

Sony are doomed. They should go third party. I want Last of Us on my Wii U. Fire Kutaragi! </satire>

 

R & D costs before a new console launch is normal.

[Serebii]

R & D costs before a new console launch is normal.

You don't say.

 

It's not like this happened with Nintendo last year and people started calling for Iwata's head. Oh wait...

[Hero-of-Time]

R & D costs before a new console launch is normal.

 

You don't say.

 

It's not like this happened with Nintendo last year and people started calling for Iwata's head. Oh wait...

 

I'm sure I've read both these comments before....

[Andyliini]

You don't say.

 

It's not like this happened with Nintendo last year and people started calling for Iwata's head. Oh wait...

 

This is what I mean by calling Sony The Golden Boy of he videogame insdustry. They can do anything, and always get away with it, without anyone ever pointing a finger at them. Things like chargin for online and neglecting thei own, recently released, machine.

 

Microsoft and Nintendo didn't get away with those two things, respectively.

[Daft]

Uuuurrm, it was only two years ago that Sony got hacked and, quite rightly, bitch slapped by everyone. I think of the three, Sony are the one's who've really understood how quickly you can lose favour with consumers. And they haven't neglected the Vita; they've repositioned it, quite successfully in everything other than sales (and they've still got KZ Mercenaries and Tearaway coming this year). Charging for online, well they earned their good will pretty well with Plus, and they cashed it in at the right time - I'm not saying I'm happy with it but they've earned my indifference.

 

Yeah, people are being generous to Sony but there a reasons for that and it was only at the beginning of this generation when they were being treated like shit because they were acting in an utterly repellant manner (Backward compatibility, Trojan BluRay, crappy online, crappy everything, no software, rumble being 'last-gen, the "you should get a second job" comment, that hideous Spider-Man font, etc...the list really does go on).

[Helmsly]

Uuuurrm, it was only two years ago that Sony got hacked and, quite rightly, bitch slapped by everyone. I think of the three, Sony are the one's who've really understood how quickly you can lose favour with consumers. And they haven't neglected the Vita; they've repositioned it, quite successfully in everything other than sales (and they've still got KZ Mercenaries and Tearaway coming this year). Charging for online, well they earned their good will pretty well with Plus, and they cashed it in at the right time - I'm not saying I'm happy with it but they've earned my indifference.

 

Yeah, people are being generous to Sony but there a reasons for that and it was only at the beginning of this generation when they were being treated like shit because they were acting in an utterly repellant manner (Backward compatibility, Trojan BluRay, crappy online, crappy everything, no software, rumble being 'last-gen, the "you should get a second job" comment, that hideous Spider-Man font, etc...the list really does go on).

 

right. Sony have been the butt of peoples jokes for the better part of the past 6 years, I'm not sure how people can even suggest they get away with anything. The reason that has changed is because they have been earning peoples respect with some of their most recent decisions unlike Nintendo who seem to be making mistake after mistake (when it comes to the Wii U, not the 3DS).

 

I'm not sure how Nintendo ended up in this situation with the Wii U. Six months next to no software for their new console is pretty bad and the lack of marketing from them is just bizarre. I think a lot of the criticism they have been getting this year has been perfectly fair.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Helmsly

[liger05]

Look, it's very simple really. Nintendo developed the ultimate strategy to get the wider audience on board:

 

They released a console at a sweet price point £175, this was within the impulse purchase range for most people. The console had everything you needed to play in the box, including a must have game. The control method was simple and appealing and could be used by anyone. Finally they advertised the console well, with simple clear adverts that featured recognised and liked household names.

 

Then came the Wii U. They threw everything out the window.

 

They released a console that was £300 - outside the impulse buy range. Out of the box it didn't have a must have title and lacked a Wii remote which was still being pushed as one of the main ways to play the console. The control method was clumsy and far too complicated for normal people and not intuitive in the slightest. This is born out in the on screen instructions which actually tell you where to look! What's more with so many control schemes for each game it gets even more confusing. Finally they didn't advertise it enough and the adverts were poor - what's more the horrible choice of name lead to greater confusion as people couldn't tell what the console was.

 

It's like Nintendo didn't learn from the successes. But nor did they learn from their failures. The Gamecube/GBA link up was one of the biggest white elephants in gaming history. The idea was to create asymmetric game play - in the end it was an expensive curiosity enjoyed by few. Why on earth they chose that model as a basis for a new console is beyond comprehension. If four people wanted to play Wii Sports they all just picked up a Wii remote. For four people to enjoy Nintendo Land it's not simple at all, in fact it's a bit of a ball ache for normal people.

 

All Nintendo needed to do for success this generation was repeat what they did with the Wii. Release a relatively cheap console (maybe £199 this time), pack it with a must have game (NSMB, Wii Sports HD etc), stick to the simple controls (Motion+ out of the box this time and a redesigned classic controller for people who want it) and then advertise it just as any company with common sense would - "the follow up to the best selling Wii console - the Wii HD". Throw in the fact it would have been backwards compatible and be able to use all the old accessories and they would have had at the worst decent and stable sales.

 

But no, they couldn't do that. They tried to reinvent the wheel again and this time they fell flat on there face. The sad thing is, they don't seem to want to do anything to rectify the problem.

 

One thing I will say about the wii is they could of launched that at £299 and it still would of sold bucketloads easily. Wii sports was more than an impulse buy.

[khilafah]

like someone said on Gaf said. This promotional ad shows exactly where nintendo went wrong.

 

Anyone would think this was a Wii Game and the gamepad is just an add-on peripheral.

 

[Phube]

Good graph from GR:

 

[Ville]

Yep, the gamepad is too complicated, the consumer doesn't really see what it adds to the games if anything. Paired with the wiimote and nunchuk it's a confusing mess, and not only to the gamers but also the developers.

 

So what about the Wii then? It was innovative yet also super simple to understand, hence the massive sales.

[Serebii]

right. Sony have been the butt of peoples jokes for the better part of the past 6 years, I'm not sure how people can even suggest they get away with anything. The reason that has changed is because they have been earning peoples respect with some of their most recent decisions unlike Nintendo who seem to be making mistake after mistake (when it comes to the Wii U, not the 3DS).

 

I'm not sure how Nintendo ended up in this situation with the Wii U. Six months next to no software for their new console is pretty bad and the lack of marketing from them is just bizarre. I think a lot of the criticism they have been getting this year has been perfectly fair.

To be fair, consoles frequently have months of little software following the launch. It's not something that is exclusive to the 3DS and Wii U. You'll see next year

 

Good graph from GR:

 

Problem with that is when you expand it to the 7 months of the Wii U figures we have now, the 360 and PS3 would be ahead. The Wii U actually had a fantastic start, it just dropped off further and quicker

[Wii]

Good graph from GR:

 

 

Problem with that is when you expand it to the 7 months of the Wii U figures we have now, the 360 and PS3 would be ahead. The Wii U actually had a fantastic start, it just dropped off further and quicker

 

Not to mention the price tags on 360 and PS3 were colossal in comparison to the Wii U especially the PS3. Also those consoles were on a slow upward trajectory while Wii U is heading in the other direction. Things can only get better surely even if I'm not satisfied with this years line up. From such a low sales base you'd imagine it can only go up.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

Good graph from GR:

 

 

Something like this is all about perception as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but Nintendo didn't once say anything about these figures after initial launch at all. Ok, it's not as big as its immediate predecessor Wii, but it would have been nice to hear Nintendo saying its selling better than 360/PS3 at this stage. Instead it felt like all we got was doom and gloom stories regarding sales, consoles bricking and whatever else anyone could come up with.. If they had actively come out and been positive about it, they may well have generated some buzz. Instead they just shut up shop and allowed the doom mongers to seize the initiative.

[liger05]

Something like this is all about perception as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but Nintendo didn't once say anything about these figures after initial launch at all. Ok, it's not as big as its immediate predecessor Wii, but it would have been nice to hear Nintendo saying its selling better than 360/PS3 at this stage. Instead it felt like all we got was doom and gloom stories regarding sales, consoles bricking and whatever else anyone could come up with.. If they had actively come out and been positive about it, they may well have generated some buzz. Instead they just shut up shop and allowed the doom mongers to seize the initiative.

 

Probably because unlike the 360 and PS3 which were supply constrained the wii u wasn't and even at launch there were plenty of wii u consoles not selling. You could walk into any store and pick one up no problem.

 

Over here it had a terrible launch. Sold less than the Vita on its first weekend.

Edited August 2, 2013 by liger05

[Rummy]

Good graph from GR:

 

 

EDIT:Turns out my points were already made Shoulda read the thread!

 

Does it account for competition in the market, though? I don't even know what market that's based on, but Wiki reports PS3 launch as November 2006(I know was delayed in some territories) Wii was obv Dec 2006, and 360 is reported by wiki as Nov 2005.

 

The 360 essentially released to no competition. The Wii U...kinda the same. The Wii U however, much cheaper than the 360 unless I'm mistaken? That alone you'd expect would help it sell more. To me, that graph actually says that the Wii U is in trouble.

 

The Wii sold well because it was the right price. It also had that broad appeal with its wiimote gimmick. The PS3 sold less well because it had to compete with that, but was also a higher price point.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rummy

[Cube]

Are those sales figures simply "worldwide sales 5 months after initial release" or "first 5 months of sales in each region, added up".

 

Because if it was the former, the PS3 was out in Europe for 13 days at that time.

[Hero-of-Time]

Those Streetpass games have done alright for themselves.

 

Iwata had this to say:

 

One month has passed since we added these new StreetPass Mii Plaza games, and we did not use any type of mass advertising. It was written on our homepage, with information about all the new content included in the update. You are also made aware when you visit the StreetPass Mii Plaza for the first time after the update, but we didn’t use anything like television commercials to advertise.

 

However, in this state, we have generated a lot of income from our customers. Furthermore, a lot of the people who are playing and enjoying the new games are communicating and advertising through outlets like Twitter. Thanks to this, the circle of customers is growing bigger and bigger, and interestingly, sales were a strong ¥400 million in only a month.

[Rummy]

£2.7million in a month on those alone?

 

Yeah Nintendo definitely don't have any money.

[Goron_3]

When looking at PS3/360 sales early on in that gen, its also important to remember that those consoles were stilk always considered the future and had guaranteed support from developers. Sales were low because of the price and the fact that people were happy to wait.