dazzybee Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think he means the fact that EVERYTHING is bigger because they're so small more than it's not technically possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Fine rain? No way. They'd have to be massive chunks of rain. Think the rain scene in A Bug's Life. Oooor like that moment in Zelda Minish Cap when you scale Mt Crenel... Oh BTW, I found an image of the Wiimote/Nunchuck controls There's a lockon mechanic now!? and a dodge move!? Why do no videos, not even the E3 conference demo, show this!? (in fact, they don't even show the Nunchuck shaking charge move either!) Also, why does this control diagram not show you how you switch characters? Edit: Oh wait I forgot, the E3 demo doesn't feature the multiple characters does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinist Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 When I first played Pikmin 1 I got really frustrated because the days were too short for me to actually accomplish anything worthwhile. It seems the lengh of the days was extended in Pikmin 2 but I never played it, wish I had though because it looks and plays way better than the first. If I get a Wii U then I'll probably be picking this up as well but I'll wait and see if anything more about it comes out at TGS and Leipzig gamescon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 It would be nice to have a "relaxing" mode where the day doesn't end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 It would be nice to have a "relaxing" mode where the day doesn't end. Or a "savage" mode where you can stay up all night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Oooor like that moment in Zelda Minish Cap when you scale Mt Crenel... Oh BTW, I found an image of the Wiimote/Nunchuck controls There's a lockon mechanic now!? and a dodge move!? Why do no videos, not even the E3 conference demo, show this!? (in fact, they don't even show the Nunchuck shaking charge move either!) Also, why does this control diagram not show you how you switch characters? Edit: Oh wait I forgot, the E3 demo doesn't feature the multiple characters does it? They do show the dodge move in some of the videos from peoples impressions on the show floor. Jonathon Holmes' Destructoid impressions is where I saw the dodging anyhow cos he went crazy when it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zechs Merquise Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 When I first played Pikmin 1 I got really frustrated because the days were too short for me to actually accomplish anything worthwhile. It seems the lengh of the days was extended in Pikmin 2 but I never played it, wish I had though because it looks and plays way better than the first. If I get a Wii U then I'll probably be picking this up as well but I'll wait and see if anything more about it comes out at TGS and Leipzig gamescon. I found the days to be too short as well. I just wanted them to last longer and have more freedom. I'm going to pick up New Play Control Pikmin 2 soon to give it a go and prepare for number 3! It would be nice to have a "relaxing" mode where the day doesn't end. ^^^ This is a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeinbeats Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Relaxing mode with the sound of the rain in 5.1 and your Pikmin can go fishing in the rain off the bridge they just built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 GT Impressions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Shigsy Talks Pikmin 3 - Co-op Multiplayer, but No Online Multiplayer http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/06/11/the-origins-of-pikmin-3 The Origins of Pikmin 3 And why this latest sequel won't support online play. Pikmin 3 has been in development for a long, long time - five years, to be precise. First mentioned at E3 2008 by Nintendo's Shigeru Miyamoto, the project was then announced as a Wii U title last year during a developer roundtable. In an interview with EW, Miyamoto mentioned that active development only began a couple years back, after a lengthy prototyping phase. During my interview with the legendary designer at E3 last week, I asked Miyamoto how Pikmin 3 had changed throughout its five year gestation, how the GamePad affected that development, and if the game would move online with Wii U. We'll have more from our conversation with Miyamoto in the coming days - check back for more soon. IGN: We've known that Pikmin 3 has been in development for several years, first starting on Wii, and so I was curious. When Pikmin 3 was on Wii, what was the original concept, before it moved to Wii U? Shigeru Miyamoto: Fundamentally I would say that the game didn't change all that much. Rather, we saw the CPU power and HD resolution offered by the Wii U and simply thought that was the best platform possible for that game, allowing you to see the whole map at one time and things like that. Going back a little bit, I would have to say that we really debated what kind of game we should make Pikmin 3. Having played them, you must know that Pikmin and Pikmin 2 themselves are very different games from each other. We had a bit of a discussion internally about which direction we should go for Pikmin 3. And at the same time we were also trying out different experiments on the DS and the 3DS and the Wii to see which platform the game would work best on. We had decided on Wii when the possibility of putting it on the Wii U became available, as we began to see what that framework was going to look like. At that time we definitely decided, okay, this is going to be much better on Wii U. Nothing huge changed in terms of the fundamental concept. IGN: In terms of the GamePad and its implementation into Pikmin 3, how did the GamePad change how you approached developing Pikmin 3? Miyamoto: I guess to address that question, I'd like to go back to discussing how Pikmin and Pikmin 2 were different. In Pikmin, you had a very strategic game, bound by a somewhat severe rule set. Whereas in Pikmin 2, you had a game where it was really just fun to explore areas and use your Pikmin in lots of different places. So we had this kind of conversation, do we go for deep strategy where people have to avoid killing Pikmin or try to lose as few as possible? I think that was a concept that always really appealed to me. [The other option was] do we go for lots of different types of maps and different sorts of collectible items, where it's fun to just wander around and do different sorts of things? Introducing lots of new Pikmin types and lots of different Pikmin abilities for people to play around with. We decided on the concept that I was most partial to, the strategic type of game. But we've made it a little bit more accessible this time around, in that the player can see the entire map at once and they can also see a replay of their actions at the end of the day, so they can adjust their strategy based on that. I think the map ended up playing a really important role in the game design. Now, this is not necessarily a function of the GamePad exactly, but with the increased CPU power of the Wii U, we were also able to have the Pikmin-throwing cursor projected onto objects that you were throwing them onto. Whereas before, you would have only a rough sense of, okay, the Pikmin's going to be thrown into this sort of area. Now you can place it directly onto an object, and that's one of the other reasons we felt like Wii U was the best fit. IGN: One of the things I found most interesting was the fact that you retained the use of the Wii Remote as one of the primary methods of control. I think a lot of us, when we see controlling bunches of little Pikmin, we think, oh, the GamePad would be perfect for just being able to move them around like that. Why did you decide the Wii Remote was the better-suited method of primary input, versus the GamePad? Miyamoto: To be honest, I'm still thinking about it. And there are definite advantages to both. I feel like the Motion Plus is a really comfortable control environment. It might have the most intuitive and direct, automatic feeling of control. But at the same time, the map is just so important in terms of strategic decisions that the player is going to be making. So it's interesting to me to see, in which situations people have gone for different control schemes. For example, the main programmer on the game has started to use the GamePad almost exclusively when he's playing the game. When I talked to him about it, he said that when you can see the map right here in front of you, it's just so much easier to decide on strategy. But there's something really fun about the Nunchuk and Motion Plus controls, and I think that you'll see that a lot on the show floor here. People are really getting into the way the Motion Plus feels in this game. IGN: One of the things I think Pikmin 2 really drove home was the element of cooperative gameplay, and just multiplayer in general, allowing more than one player to play together. Can people expect the same from Pikmin 3? Perhaps even online Pikmin? Miyamoto: Everyone asks that question! [laughter] So in the case of Mario Kart, we did have online multiplayer, and that's something that... You have to be very careful that you don't drop frames as you're trying to sync up with other players over what could be a very great physical distance, over the internet. But in the situation of Pikmin, for example, since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection. So I think what we've decided to do is focus on the single-player and local multiplayer aspects, which are really fun. But unfortunately, no online multiplayer for Pikmin 3. But the co-op local multiplayer is really fun. "Everyone asks that question" ... probably because everybody is still waiting/can't believe how long it's taking you to implement online gaming! To me the answer to that question just seems incredible stuck in the past and of someone and a company who still don't really get online gaming. [Not that they're comparible but] If console games like MAG exist, I think it's possible to get two people to move their Pikmin around! Edited June 11, 2012 by Retro_Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Solution to the latency problem: Each player has their own set of 50 (or more) Pikmin. All of a sudden, the exact location of the Pikmin sent through the internet really doesn't matter - as long at they're exact to each individual player and stuff like the damage they're doing is properly transmitted - then latency should no longer be an issue. Unfortunately I can no longer get my sister or cousin to play the co-op and competitive modes on Pikmin as I could back in Pikmin 2 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fused King Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Seems like the same excuse for NSMBWii not being online. . . I'm getting a bit sick and tired o' this 'no-online' stuff, Retro's project better make up for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzybee Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 It's infuriating isn't it. Nintendo are so archaic in their thinking, do they not play other games? Are they not aware what other systems offer? What gamers of today truly want? Let's hope the local multiplayer is amazing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Screw the online play, this part here is FAR more interesting... Miyamoto: I guess to address that question, I'd like to go back to discussing how Pikmin and Pikmin 2 were different. In Pikmin, you had a very strategic game, bound by a somewhat severe rule set. Whereas in Pikmin 2, you had a game where it was really just fun to explore areas and use your Pikmin in lots of different places. So we had this kind of conversation, do we go for deep strategy where people have to avoid killing Pikmin or try to lose as few as possible? I think that was a concept that always really appealed to me. [The other option was] do we go for lots of different types of maps and different sorts of collectible items, where it's fun to just wander around and do different sorts of things? Introducing lots of new Pikmin types and lots of different Pikmin abilities for people to play around with. We decided on the concept that I was most partial to, the strategic type of game. But we've made it a little bit more accessible this time around, in that the player can see the entire map at once and they can also see a replay of their actions at the end of the day, so they can adjust their strategy based on that. I think the map ended up playing a really important role in the game design. So the game is going to be closer to Pikmin 1 in terms of design than Pikmin 2 then! In what way though... There doesn't seem to be a day limit (or at least one mentioned thus far), but there IS a distinct lack of onions... (and enemies/objects brought back to the ship did not breed extra Pikmin like in past games) I wonder if indeed there is going to be a hard limit on the number of Pikmin throughout the entire game and you have to seek them out/pluck them solely from the environment? The equivalent of permadeath, when your Pikmin run out, that's it - there's no more and you either have to restart the game from the beginning or turn back time in your save file and correct your earlier mistakes! Shigeru Miyamoto: Fundamentally I would say that the game didn't change all that much. Rather, we saw the CPU power and HD resolution offered by the Wii U and simply thought that was the best platform possible for that game, allowing you to see the whole map at one time and things like that. Going back a little bit, I would have to say that we really debated what kind of game we should make Pikmin 3. Having played them, you must know that Pikmin and Pikmin 2 themselves are very different games from each other. We had a bit of a discussion internally about which direction we should go for Pikmin 3. And at the same time we were also trying out different experiments on the DS and the 3DS and the Wii to see which platform the game would work best on. We had decided on Wii when the possibility of putting it on the Wii U became available, as we began to see what that framework was going to look like. At that time we definitely decided, okay, this is going to be much better on Wii U. Nothing huge changed in terms of the fundamental concept. Considering how important he considers the map to be to the overall design, it's comforting to hear that the game design hasn't really changed at all from its original Wii incarnation Also, we now know what that DS Pikmin patent was all about Edited June 12, 2012 by Dcubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzybee Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Nice to see Shigeru say that is hasn't really changed from being on the Wii except in the graphics and the map. Which is exactly what i said was obviously the case and got lambasted for saying it. Can't wait to hear more about this game, really hope Nintendo can add some form of online play, whether challenges, highscores, anything... Still think it's a cheap excuse them not putting online co op/competitive in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Nice to see Shigeru say that is hasn't really changed from being on the Wii except in the graphics and the map. Which is exactly what i said was obviously the case and got lambasted for saying it. Can't wait to hear more about this game, really hope Nintendo can add some form of online play, whether challenges, highscores, anything... Still think it's a cheap excuse them not putting online co op/competitive in To be fair, it would be VERY difficult getting a game like Pikmin working online. It's not like a normal online RTS game, where you deploy units and tell them where to go with a top down view (from which point, the game already knows the exact position and time in which the troops will arrive at their destination minutes in advance); in Pikmin, you are directly controlling 101 characters simultaneously around a 3rd person 3D world in full real time (with input change and path finding AI updates every 60th of a second). Now take all that and multiply it by 2 for multiplayer! (or 4 if it's 4 player online!) Getting Pikmin multiplayer working online just isn't feasible, just like how getting NSMB multi working online isn't feasible either (think about how laggy Little Big Planet is online and imagine trying to jump off a friend's head to reach a platform... yeah... that's not gonna work...) It's not a CPU limitation, but an online latency one. They could've had a cut down version of multiplayer (with simpler environments and less Pikmin) for a specific online mode I guess, but then that's altering the way the game works and it's not really Pikmin any more. Edited June 12, 2012 by Dcubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (think about how laggy Little Big Planet is online and imagine trying to jump off a friend's head to reach a platform... yeah... that's not gonna work...) You should try playing 'Splosion Man online. You needed loads and loads of precise jumps and to perfectly time hitting switches. It was impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) You should try playing 'Splosion Man online. You needed loads and loads of precise jumps and to perfectly time hitting switches. It was impossible. Same reason why 4 swords Anniversary couldn't work online. There are parts where it requires split second timing to activate certain switches (That game is also VERY susceptible to wireless interference as the slightest of drop outs cause the game to go crazy, even though Nintendo's NiFi protocol is the lowest latency wireless protocol out there!) There are times where the lack of online play is baffling (Starfox 64 3D), but in many cases, Nintendo escew online play for good reasons. Most people don't really understand the implications of netcode development though and just assume that any game that works locally will also work online in exactly the same way :p Edited June 12, 2012 by Dcubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Nice to see Shigeru say that is hasn't really changed from being on the Wii except in the graphics and the map. Which is exactly what i said was obviously the case and got lambasted for saying it. Can't wait to hear more about this game, really hope Nintendo can add some form of online play, whether challenges, highscores, anything... Still think it's a cheap excuse them not putting online co op/competitive in It's not that cheap an excuse...having to constantly send 100 Pikmin positions in real time would bottleneck the connection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (think about how laggy Little Big Planet is online and imagine trying to jump off a friend's head to reach a platform... yeah... that's not gonna work...) LBP2 says Hi. Has no problems online, at all. So, no, it's not an online latency issue. Also, as crap a game as it is, MAG works seamlessly online and that has 128 players, all doing completely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C.G Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Just because the Wii U has a decent online infrastructure doesn't mean that Nintendo should tack-on online multiplayer to every single game, that's not what they're about. Leaderboards? why not... Challenges? sure Downloadable Replays? Yes please (I believe this was even touched upon in the presentation) but online multiplayer for Pikmin? no thanks... I'd rather have a completely satisfying single player experience with the option of co-op to enjoy with friends/family in the same room just to show them what the game is all about, for the most-part though I feel that certain games like Pikmin should remain single-player only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 with the option of co-op to enjoy with friends/family in the same room just to show them what the game is all about, for the most-part though I feel that certain games like Pikmin should remain single-player only. But what's wrong with the option of co-op online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C.G Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 But what's wrong with the option of co-op online? There's nothing wrong with it at all, providing Nintendo can find a way to get the game running with no lag, if not then I'd prefer that they just leave it out. Plus if they were to add it in now then that would probably mean that it won't make it for launch - it might not anyway but it's half-assumed that it will - which is fine if they use the time wisely to go a good job on implementing the online co-op... unfortunately I'm not entirely convinced that they can do this but I would absolutely love to be proven wrong. : peace: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 LBP2 says Hi. Has no problems online, at all. So, no, it's not an online latency issue. Also, as crap a game as it is, MAG works seamlessly online and that has 128 players, all doing completely different things. Can I have your magic copy please? It's a lagfest for me on my 20 mbit connection! Also FPS games lend themselves well to online play. They're one of the easiest types of games to get working online (along with racing games) because player actions are fairly predictable and do not rely on split second timing - though that's not meant to be a knock against MAG in anyway because it IS a technical marvel for online play! Gettin NSMB to work online is like getting a 4 player Street Fighter to work, in terms of the latency challenge involved. If they can't match the local experience well enough, they won't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I've played LBP2 on my PS3, Rez's PS3 (and his internet connection is currently duff) and a friend's. It's definitely not my copy that is magic. There is no excuse for Pikmin to not be online - bar a design decision (or budget/time contraints). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts