Murr Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I Didn't know whether to break the article up and post the 5 bits related to each film in each thread, or start a new one.... I opted for this method... Hope that's okay? A couple of weeks ago, we shared who we thought should join the team in The Avengers 2, which was received well by some, and not so well by others. Since then, we've seen The Avengers a second time, but before that we watched all the previous Marvel Studios movies as part of AMC's Marvel Movie Marathon. Sitting in a movie theater for 17 hours watching nothing but Marvel movies made us start thinking more about what we liked and what we didn't like, which got us thinking how Marvel Studios can keep the love going with their next three movies, all sequels to popular movies as well as their very first threequel Iron Man 3. Granted, most of these movies already have scripts written and they probably have a good idea of what they plan on doing and who they will include in them but in case anyone from Marvel Studios is reading this, maybe there's still some time to make sure that long-time fans of the comics will get some of what they want. (After all, none of these movies have actually started filming yet) Oh, and… SPOILERS FOR ALL PREVIOUS MARVEL MOVIES Iron Man 3 It's really difficult making a threequel, especially when the first two movies in a franchise are generally well liked. That's partially why movies like Spider-Man 3 and X-Men: The Last Stand will never be considered among the favorites of comic book movie fans, but we think Marvel Studios knows there's a lot of pressure for Iron Man 3 to be as good as The Avengers and they'll be going out of their way to insure that, starting with the intriguing cast they've been putting together. 1. Don't try to reinvent the wheel. This is very important because with "Lethal Weapon" creator Shane Black taking over both as writer and director, he certainly brings his own distinctive voice and sensibilities to the franchise, which is cool, but that doesn't mean we want to lose what we liked so much about the first two "Iron Man" movies. We look at this movie like it's issue #3 of a comic book and if you're reading any series and you get to the third issue and it doesn't have what you liked about the first two, you're likely to be disappointed. Fortunately, Black is a shrewd filmmaker with franchise-writing ability in his blood, but also, he wrote and directed the excellent Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, a movie that was influential on Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau hiring Robert Downey Jr. in the first place, so we think their reunion in this will basically give them a forum to create an even better "Iron Man" movie. 2. Happy Hogan! – Even though Jon Favreau is no longer in the director's chair, Tony Stark's driver is an important part of his support team, and it would be a shame if someone (like Favreau) decides that appearing in a movie he's not directing is taking him away from directing his next movie. We really enjoyed Favreau as Happy Hogan--even more than we liked him as "Foggy" Nelson in Daredevil--and in the comics, there's always been this odd love triangle between him, Tony and Pepper Potts that seems ripe for introducing into the movie now that Tony and Pepper are together. 3. Iron Man's villains don't all have to wear armor – This one is really important because one of the things that killed Iron Man 2 for many people is all those suits of armor flying around shooting big guns. Sure, War Machine makes sense and okay, having an army of unmanned "Mandroids" also could have been cool, but when Whiplash showed up in his own armor, most people felt "Okay, enough is enough." The great thing about Iron Man villains like Mandarin and Spymaster and Madame Masque—most of them, in fact--is that they find other ways of fighting Iron Man's armory of weapons without their own suits of armor. If you're just going to throw every villain into their own armor, then it just starts feeling silly. 4. Easter eggs! – Obviously Shane Black and Marvel are going to try hard not to turn Iron Man 3 into a long-form trailer for The Avengers 2, but we really liked how some of the earlier movies hinted at the other characters in the Marvel Universe, and this seems like a good time to let moviegoers know there's more coming. I wouldn't be too obvious with it—like we don't need Tony saying something like "Man, I wish this galaxy had guardians against aliens," but there's ways of getting other characters in there. (See Hawkeye's appearance in Thor, which was a nice surprise for many.) 5. Let's not wait too long for Iron Man 4. With Robert Downey Jr.'s contract coming to an end with Iron Man 3, we're nervous there may be a fairly large gap while Marvel Studios plans The Avengers 2 and tries to launch other heroes. It was two years between Iron Man and Iron Man 2 and three years before Iron Man 3, so we want to leave this one knowing that Downey is signed and ready to go for Iron Man 4 and it'll get released by 2016. And seriously, if they don't put the Mandarin in THAT one, we're going to have a conniption (although we believe the rumors that he's going to be in this one). Thor 2 While it's disappointing that Kenneth Branagh has decided to move on to other things, we're big enough fans of HBO's "Game of Thrones" to know that Alan Taylor should be able to handle the big epic locations of Asgard as well as the very human drama that comes with it. Since Thor moved into the top slot for our favorite solo Marvel movie recently, this is the sequel we have the most expectations and hopes for and Branagh has left some mighty big boots to fill. Here are our suggestions… 1. How did Thor get back to earth in The Avengers? – This is something pretty major and we think this means that the Thor sequel or at least part of it will have to take place during the first act of The Avengers (or earlier) to explain how Thor, who was trapped on Asgard with the destruction of the Bifrost at the end of Thor, somehow appears on earth to save his brother Loki from 2. Keep Loki in a smaller role – Yeah, we all love Tom Hiddleston's Loki from Thor and The Avengers, but you can't really top the level of evil he brought to those movies, so maybe for this second movie, Loki needs to recharge his batteries, and take a smaller supporting role, maybe plotting from the background and sending others to fight his brother. Thor has lots of decent villains including many in the realm of Asgard so that shouldn't be a problem. 3. Trolls! -- We like those ice giants from Thor just fine but one thing we learned from seeing the Norwegian movie Trollhunter is that trolls are a lot of fun to watch fighting against tiny humans. Thor and the Asgardians are larger than normal humans but we still think seeing Thor fighting Ulik (one of hte great bosses from SEGA's Thor game) or some of the bigger trolls could make for an exciting movie. 4. More Thor on Earth – We already know that a lot of the sequel will take place on Asgard and the other Nine Realms, which are all very cool, but what we love about the concept of Thor is that he's a God on earth and how he deals with things he's not accustomed to. We really liked his short-lived romance with Natalie Portman's Jane Foster, and we can't imagine that not playing a large part in the sequel, and of course, who could forget the great laughs that came from Kat Dennings' Darcy? And if you're going to have him on earth, maybe one could briefly introduce some of his Earth villains like The Wrecking Crew… but we might be asking for too much there. 5. Bring Thor to the city and give him an alter-ego--Now we're probably asking a little too much here, but part of showing Thor on earth is to allow him to have new experiences, and there's not really that much to do in the area of New Mexico where he spent the first movie. You also can't really have a God walking around big cities without getting odd looks, so even if he puts on normal clothes and gets a regular job (like construction worker), he can fit in better. Since Thor spent a bit of time in New York in The Avengers it might make some sense for him to stay there, but he may also want to visit Jane Foster where she was sent for her own safety in Avengers. Captain America Sequel While this sequel is the one that's the furthest away and they haven't even hired or announced a director just yet, Captain America: the First Avenger had a lot of fans due to the casting of Chris Evans and a great supporting cast like Stanley Tucci and Tommy Lee Jones. Director Joe Johnston really delivered a solid superhero movie, his first since The Rocketeer and I'm sure more than a few fans were disappointed that he wasn't immediately signed on for a sequel. Fortunately, Captain America is a character so rich in history that Marvel can really do a lot with him so we're not too worried that the sequel will be placed in capable hands. Whoever directs, here are the five things we'd want to see. 1. Sharon Carter – Since the romance between Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter was such a big part of Captain America: The First Avenger, we have to imagine that he's going to have a love interest in the modern day and who better to play Peggy's S.H.I.E.L.D. agent granddaughter Sharon Carter than Haley Atwell herself, this time with blonde hair? (There were rumors that "The Mentalist" star Amanda Righetti's S.H.I.E.L.D. agent at the end of The First Avenger was actually Sharon Carter but that was never confirmed.) 2. The Falcon – Without putting my foot in my mouth like I did with my Black Panther suggestion for The Avengers 2, there really has never been a partner for Cap than The Falcon, and he is a great visual character to introduce to the Marvel Movie Universe. It's already been hinted that The Falcon may be introduced in Cap 2, but we really hope that he'll be used as a similar fashion as Rhodey in the "Iron Man" movies to give Cap a buddy and confident in the modern world other than Nick Fury. 3. Do we really need to bother with WWII?--That aspect of Cap's life seemed pretty well-covered in the first movie even though that's probably a lot of what people liked about Joe Johnston's movie. Personally, we think that they've done about as much as they can do there without boring moviegoers, and it seems to us like seeing Cap facing modern-day enemies and situations alongside S.H.I.E.L.D. would make for a far more interesting movie. 4. Possibly hint at the Winter Soldier – It seems obvious this is where Marvel is going with the Bucky Barnes character played by Sebastian Stan, and frankly, we were kind of bummed by how quickly he was "killed" and forgotten in Captain America: The First Avenger, never to be mentioned again. We're not sure we want to have that be a major storyline in the Cap sequel, but that'd be a great cliffhanger ending to set up a third movie, wouldn't it? (Folks who read the comics already know that the Winter Soldier has a relationship with Black Widow, so that's something that can easily be introduced into the film world as well.) 5. Make it clear that the Red Skull is still alive in present day – The Red Skull is a major Cap villain and we can't imagine he'd be dead back in WWII because he has to come back and plague him in present day like he does constantly in the comics. Even if this is also just a cliffhanger to end the movie, we want to be reassured that Hugo Weaving will be back in the role he played so perfectly. Oh, and while we're at it, let's see Arnim Zola in his more familiar android form. Iron Man 3 opens May 3, 2013; Thor 2 is scheduled for November 15, 2013 and the Captain America Sequel is on the slate for April 4, 2014. Source - Superherohype.com One of the suggestions for Iron Man 3 was recently confirmed in the Iron Man 3 thread... Happy Hogen is in it
Cube Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Make it clear that the Red Skull is still alive in present day Didn't the Asgard transportation effect make that pretty damn clear?
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I must admit I didn't recognise it as such, simply thinking he was being disintegrated by the pulsing power of the Tesseract.
Retro_Link Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Have to say I hate their Thor ideas! 1. Avengers already explained how he got to Earth, albeit very briefly/lightly, but there's no need to touch upon it more, it's just an unnecessary time waster (rather see those 5 minutes spent elsewhere). I expect Thor 2 to open with the Trial/Sentencing of Loki, with Thor maybe not present and daydreaming/thinking about it as it happens from elsewhere... Maybe Thor's first scene is already him on Earth with Jane and she snaps him out of thinking about it. Again, they don't need to waste much time on how the Bifrost was fixed... maybe he can be telling Jane about it. 4. No, not more of Thor on Earth! If anything don't stop at Jane and bring Darcy etc... to Asgard and the Nine Worlds as well; they're all scientists/interested in Space; let them explore it. 5. Worst character/franchise ruining idea I've heard... sounds like Spiderman 3 x 100. (most of the other ideas for the other films seem obvious/happening anyway). Edited May 25, 2012 by Retro_Link
Daft Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Their Thor ideas are atrocious. Who ever wrote that should be smacked hard.
ReZourceman Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Just wanted to confirm that, yes, indeed they can suck teh ballz for their bullshit Thor monstrosity thoughts of doom.
The Bard Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I like idea 4; have Thor spend more time on Earth rather than some ill conceived ethereal realm. Asgard was fucking awful in the first film. Then again so were all the earthly locations.
Retro_Link Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I like idea 4; have Thor spend more time on Earth rather than some ill conceived ethereal realm. Asgard was fucking awful in the first film. Then again so were all the earthly locations.Ill concieved?... You do realise there's 50 years of comics behind Thor and the Nine Realms?We've got enough of Earth/NewYork in every other superhero film, Mythology is what sets Thor apart. Maybe it wouldn't have been 'fucking awful' [it was absolutely wasn't btw], if he'd spent more time there in the first film; think of that? Exhausting.
The Bard Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 I've never read the comics, so I can't comment on that, but Asgard in the film didn't give you any real sense of place. It was poorly contextualized, and gave you little sense of where it was in relation to all the other locations in the film. It was mostly just a hall and a bridge shrouded in really diffused and cheesy lighting. It may be the most well developed location in comic history, but it was really very poorly communicated in the film. Also, you really think that Marvel are going to approach it from the mythological angle? The extent of that so far has basically been the characters gibbering on about their genealogical tree every time they introduce themselves. The frost giant's were the least menacing/ interesting antagonist imaginable, basically just spending the entire movie sitting around their home world threatening to do shit, but never really delivering on it, and seemingly not having any real, believable motivation either. The whole thing was just dumb, which makes me think it was the source material that was shit, rather than the cast or the director which were both great. Also, the sheer volume of work doesn't connote quality. I'm guessing the majority of it is pretty much garbage; those 50 year's worth of material serve a predominantly financial purpose above any artistic one.
Magnus Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 The only thing I know about the Thor universe is that Larry Lieber couldn't be bothered to pick up a mythology book and started calling Mjolnir "the Uru Hammer." I'm sure dozens upon dozens of people have improved on the universe since (and I know someone had the sense to retcon uru into being the material the hammer was made of), but I always thought that was hilarious.
The Bard Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 Yeah, so, being Scandinavian, is there actually any merit to or veracity in Marvel's version of Thor, or is it just a load of crap?
Retro_Link Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) What do you mean 'where it was in relation to all other locations in the film?'... which locations?... They're all different realms reached via the bifrost. I personally loved Asgard. Knowing nothing about it going into it, and whilst the film spent quite little time there due to taking Thor to Earth/Jutenheim, I felt like they did a great job of establishing the world and making it feel real/recognisable. Sure they only had time to focus on key areas first time round due to the story... the palace, the rainbow bridge, the biforst... but visually it looked incredible I thought, and great architecture/colour etc... Also if you watch the deleted scenes you see a little more of the place. This is why I'm really looking forward to the sequel to see Asgard expanded upon and a trip into the other realms. I already know what Earth looks like! Edited May 25, 2012 by Retro_Link
chairdriver Posted May 25, 2012 Posted May 25, 2012 The Thor/Asgard mythos tells me some stuff in the comics in general: I love using guns.
Dan_Dare Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Yeah, so, being Scandinavian, is there actually any merit to or veracity in Marvel's version of Thor, or is it just a load of crap? I think the structure of the nine realms on the World Tree is accurate, as are the names and roles of all the major characters. As are their relationships. Where Marvel obviously deviate from the myth is the Gods actually being Aliens, Thor's powers and stuff. I think I read somewhere that Stan Lee wanted Marvel to have an equivalent to Superman and chose the Norse Gods because it gave them a way to make him their own guy. A lot of the early Thor stuff, especially with the Donald Blake alter ego, is very similar to Superman. edit: I'd actually like to see them do this: and have Thor park his giant floating city on Earth, for lulz.
Jonnas Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 It should be noted that, in Norse Mythology, Loki wasn't evil or anything, he was just a smartass that nobody liked. So, you can see they even took liberties with that (like Disney and Hades, actually).
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) It should be noted that, in Norse Mythology, Loki wasn't evil or anything, he was just a smartass that nobody liked. So, you can see they even took liberties with that (like Disney and Hades, actually). While that is true, he does eventually cause enough trouble to get on the bad side of the other gods by being responsible for the death of the beloved Balder, and he fights against them at Ragnarok. Still, he truly is a very ambiguous character. I really like Marvel's take on the mythology, by the way, and I would love to see more of Asgard in the next film(s). Edited May 28, 2012 by Dannyboy-the-Dane
Retro_Link Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Where Marvel obviously deviate from the myth is the Gods actually being Aliens,Marvel see Thor etc... as Aliens?
chairdriver Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) Marvel see Thor etc... as Aliens? Well, aliens in the sense that they live not on Earth but in another part of the galaxy / dimension -- they're alien to the planet Earth. Thor etc aren't gods, it's just the Norse people considered them as such when they encountered them back in 200AD or whatever (/earlier?). That's touched upon somewhere (maybe not in the film? can't remember where it was) with regards to the non-white Asgardians. Heimdall and Hogun were shown to be white in Norse mythological drawings etc because that's the only thing Scandinavian people had any contact with, but in actuality the Asgardians are all different skin colours. (It's dodgy logic) Edited May 29, 2012 by chairdriver
Dan_Dare Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Well, yeah. They say it clearly in the film too. They aren't Gods, the Vikings just thought they were when they met them. It should be noted that, in Norse Mythology, Loki wasn't evil or anything, he was just a smartass that nobody liked. So, you can see they even took liberties with that (like Disney and Hades, actually). I actually think he was at his best, and most ambiguous, in Thor. His motives were complex and nuanced but in The Avengers he was too much the megalomaniac.
chairdriver Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 I actually think he was at his best, and most ambiguous, in Thor. His motives were complex and nuanced but in The Avengers he was too much the megalomaniac. Yeah, that's amongst the biggest failings of Avengers, it made no sense why Loki was actually doing what he was doing. In Thor he actually had legitimate cause to be a dick, since Thor was a dick, where in Avengers it was a bit like "what?"
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 I agree somewhat, though it makes sense that his experiences between falling off Bifrost and becoming the leader of the Chitauri invasion force had a severely negative effect on his already troubled mind.
Dan_Dare Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Yeah, that's amongst the biggest failings of Avengers, it made no sense why Loki was actually doing what he was doing. In Thor he actually had legitimate cause to be a dick, since Thor was a dick, where in Avengers it was a bit like "what?" I agree. Although I liked him an an antagonist for the whole group, his plan was too blunt to really fit the character. It needed another level to feel right- there were hints at something more when he was warned not to try and steal the cube etc but it never went far enough: Facing Loki should be like going up against a chess grand master with a great game planned out and they didn't get that across.
Mokong Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Yeah, that's amongst the biggest failings of Avengers, it made no sense why Loki was actually doing what he was doing. In Thor he actually had legitimate cause to be a dick, since Thor was a dick, where in Avengers it was a bit like "what?" When Thor first appears in The Avengers and they have that little chat on the mountain I thought it was clear Loki's intentions where basically to destory/enslave the planet/people that Thor loved. Thor took away his chances of being king of Asgard so now Loki wanted to take away something dear to Thor. Kinda childish I guess when you put it like that, but he was pissed and a bit of a diva so... Wait? Thor and Loki weren't little grey aliens? Am I the only one who got this reference/joke?
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