What is the world coming to?

[Fierce_LiNk]

Nah it's no problem, I agree with much of what you say, we just disagree about the end point. I appreciate I'm quite absolutist about this kind of point and quite probably in a small minority of people who hold this view, in the UK at least. It's one of the few things that I admire about the US.

 

Their foreign policy in much of the 20th Century however....

 

I do agree with you in that it is amazing and awful at the same time, but that's the nature, the beauty and the problem of having such liberties in that culture. Also, it'll never always be used for negativity, because the law is there to benefit the country. It's just one extreme end of the spectrum we were discussing.

 

Compare that with a number of other countries in the World, who don't have that concept of Freedom of Speech. It does more good than harm to have it.

[Emasher]

The real problem is that if you actually have a chance of convincing a large number of people to hold an opinion that opposes that of the US government (which really means American corporations), they will find a way to shut you up.

[ipaul]

I do agree with you in that it is amazing and awful at the same time, but that's the nature, the beauty and the problem of having such liberties in that culture. Also, it'll never always be used for negativity, because the law is there to benefit the country. It's just one extreme end of the spectrum we were discussing.

 

Compare that with a number of other countries in the World, who don't have that concept of Freedom of Speech. It does more good than harm to have it.

 

Quite agree.

 

Now North Korea, there's a country that doesn't have any idea about...

 

Oh yeah I forgot it's actually a really nice place.

 

LOL N EUROPE!

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

But yeah, it seems fairly clear that there are multiple uses of chav, some of which are classist and many of which aren't. But I don't see why everyone responded to chair with such hatred just because he suggested it was an inherently classist term.

 

Because people will always be annoyed when someone criticises their choice of words and tells them what they're actually saying and what they should be saying instead. Chair didn't as much inform people about inherent connotations in the word as much as he put words in their mouths (or rather meaning in their words) and attacked them for it.

 

When people attack the form of an argument instead of the content, the focus is being removed from what's important, and that's what annoys me most personally.

[Sheikah]

Yeah.

 

People of the same wealth and upbringing as chavs often aren't chavs. It's all about people choosing to be arseholes, annoying the public and swearing constantly. And just chair being deliberately difficult.

[EEVILMURRAY]

I think what she was trying to say was:

 

[Charlie]

Has she actually been arrested? I don't agree with that so much... maybe just banned from public transport or forced to do community service / anger management / tolerance meeting / back to fucking school.

 

I think she should be arrested for the following reasons:

 

-She's clearly a racist

-She was verbally abusing people in a public place. Put yourself if their position. If someone were to talk to me like that I would be going to the police and if they said they couldn't do anything about it I would be raging.

-She was aggravating assault. She wanted to get a reaction from the people on the tram.

 

 

You can't talk to people like that and expect to get away with it. While I don't think a custodial sentence will do her any good, a hefty fine and one hell of a lot of community service would be much better. Put the child into proper care too while they're at it. He shouldn't have to put up with all that.

[Murr]

What a piece of trash.

 

Unfortunate that a child has to be brought up by such an intolerant person, Can only imagine the father is just as bad, but he's probably up and left her to look after the kid alone. That's me stereotyping, but that's the impression I get.

 

Unfortunately racism is just one of those things that wont ever completely disappear, not in our lifetimes anyway.

 

 

At Download festival in 2010, England were playing USA in a group match, so that day at the festival I as did many thousands of England fans wore their England shirts, It was a good day, chatting and drinking with random England Metal music fans, But again unfortunately there are always going to be a few racists around, One group of England fans behind me and my friends were shouting at me telling me to take the England shirt off, and that I wasn't English.

 

Luckily as I mentioned the majority of people there were in good moods and high spirits and as I had befriended many people that day I had a lot of backing of people. In the end the loud group shouting at me were on the end of verbal abuse of a lot of the guys I'd made friends with that day.

 

Shame that a small minority can be such cunts.

 

 

Back on the topic. The lady from the original post is a cunt!

[Jimbob]

I think she should be arrested for the following reasons:

 

-She's clearly a racist

-She was verbally abusing people in a public place. Put yourself if their position. If someone were to talk to me like that I would be going to the police and if they said they couldn't do anything about it I would be raging.

-She was aggravating assault. She wanted to get a reaction from the people on the tram.

 

 

You can't talk to people like that and expect to get away with it. While I don't think a custodial sentence will do her any good, a hefty fine and one hell of a lot of community service would be much better. Put the child into proper care too while they're at it. He shouldn't have to put up with all that.

 

I'm hoping the police don't go soft on her. She is racist and i don't condone racism.

 

What i would love to happen to her, locked in prison. A prison with quite a few mixed race people/people she doesn't like. She'd get the bejebus kicked out of her with that attitude, and there is nowhere to run either.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Jimbob

[MoogleViper]

I'm hoping the police don't go soft on her. She is racist and i don't condone racism.

 

What i would love to happen to her, locked in prison. A prison with quite a few coloured people. She'd get the bejebus kicked out of her with that attitude, and there is nowhere to run either.

 

I applaud the sentiment, might wanna work on the delivery though.

[Jimbob]

I applaud the sentiment, might wanna work on the delivery though.

 

Ah, i see. Fixed the orginal.

[Ramar]

One group of England fans behind me and my friends were shouting at me telling me to take the England shirt off, and that I wasn't English.

 

That's terrible. Even if you weren't English what stops a person wearing what ever football shirt they want.

[Murr]

That's terrible. Even if you weren't English what stops a person wearing what ever football shirt they want.

 

Racism in sports does confuse me. The majority of teams in most sports now have different race people. And the fans can idolize them, yet when an opposing team has different race players some fans give them abuse.

 

I really don't understand it.

 

Especially in USA, I don't want to sound stereotypical but majority NFL and NBA teams are made of African American players. Again back to the whole point of idolizing players, fans following there team to the bitter end which would consist of different race players, yet despite their team's potential star player being a different colour there is still racism.

 

I tried to make that post as PC as I could.

[Hamishmash]

What is the world coming to?

 

Well... something obviously better than before, yeah? And this video proves the world is going in the right direction more than anything.

 

There was a time, when this woman would have not been arrested. There was a time, when that woman wouldn't have even BEEN on the same tram as black people.

 

There was a time when she would have been hailed for speaking her mind, and for being brave.

 

Now she's the most hated woman in the internet for a few days, has been arrested and I doubt anybody on that tram agreed with her. The fact this video has been such a viral video is encouraging, it's so unheard of for people to act like this, it is shocking so many people. Does that make any sense?

[EddieColeslaw]

What is the world coming to?

 

Well... something obviously better than before, yeah? And this video proves the world is going in the right direction more than anything.

 

There was a time, when this woman would have not been arrested. There was a time, when that woman wouldn't have even BEEN on the same tram as black people.

 

There was a time when she would have been hailed for speaking her mind, and for being brave.

 

Now she's the most hated woman in the internet for a few days, has been arrested and I doubt anybody on that tram agreed with her. The fact this video has been such a viral video is encouraging, it's so unheard of for people to act like this, it is shocking so many people. Does that make any sense?

 

Excellent point of view to take. Because news is so accessible and propagates so quickly these days, it can be assumed that the world is falling apart. But it's actually an increase in awareness of events like this, whereas before no one would have heard of it. Steps towards awareness and freedom of information

 

--

 

As for the topic itself...I believe there are laws against incitement of hatred (in Ireland and the UK), so I'm not surprised that she may have been arrested. I think that community service/anger management classes (as someone suggested) would be more useful, just saying that the idea of arresting someone who did what she did isn't outrageous.

Edited November 29, 2011 by EddieColeslaw

[Hamishmash]

It's like people who think murder and crime are increasing. It may very well be the case, but not to the same point the media might suggest it is.

 

She should have been arrested. Free speech and hate speech are different things. What she said was just as hurtful and damaging as physical assault and she was targeting a huge number of people. Her intention was to cause upset and offense. But no, prison wouldn't help, she'd need to spend time with these people, do community service and things. Do the work she claims they're stealing, something like that.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I think she should be arrested for the following reasons:

 

-She's clearly a racist

-She was verbally abusing people in a public place. Put yourself if their position. If someone were to talk to me like that I would be going to the police and if they said they couldn't do anything about it I would be raging.

-She was aggravating assault. She wanted to get a reaction from the people on the tram.

 

I almost agree. In my mind it doesn't actually matter that she was being nationalistic/racist (despite how much I hate such people). Ignorant as they may be, they are entitled to their opinion. What they're not entitled to is abusing other people in a public place, and I'm happy she was arrested for that.

 

I tried to make that post as PC as I could.

 

Now, let's not be oversensitive about the topic. The concept of political correctness seems to have almost made a taboo out of such topics and made people hypersensitive about them. It's the form vs. content problem again.

[Emasher]

What is the world coming to?

 

Well... something obviously better than before, yeah? And this video proves the world is going in the right direction more than anything.

 

There was a time, when this woman would have not been arrested. There was a time, when that woman wouldn't have even BEEN on the same tram as black people.

 

There was a time when she would have been hailed for speaking her mind, and for being brave.

 

Now she's the most hated woman in the internet for a few days, has been arrested and I doubt anybody on that tram agreed with her. The fact this video has been such a viral video is encouraging, it's so unheard of for people to act like this, it is shocking so many people. Does that make any sense?

 

I can't really see how arresting people for what is essentially just words is better than before. Perhaps better than before in the sense that most people don't think like her, but ideally people would either just ignore her, or laugh at her. That would truly be better than before.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

To be fair, though, those weren't just words; she was shouting abuse at people. Do you think that's okay?

[Beast]

[Jonnas]

I can't really see how arresting people for what is essentially just words is better than before. Perhaps better than before in the sense that most people don't think like her, but ideally people would either just ignore her, or laugh at her. That would truly be better than before.

 

She was inciting violence in public. That's why she was arrested, not because she's racist.

 

Granted, being racist probably helped speed up the process, but she wasn't arrested for voicing her opinion.

[Emasher]

She was inciting violence in public. That's why she was arrested, not because she's racist.

 

Granted, being racist probably helped speed up the process, but she wasn't arrested for voicing her opinion.

 

Perhaps I missed something, but I don't remember her ever threatening anyone, or instructing someone else to harm anyone. She was expressing her opinion, and although, a rational person would disagree with her, she's still entitled to it. She never harmed anyone physically.

[Jonnas]

Perhaps I missed something, but I don't remember her ever threatening anyone, or instructing someone else to harm anyone. She was expressing her opinion, and although, a rational person would disagree with her, she's still entitled to it. She never harmed anyone physically.

 

Provoking others with hateful speech is inciting violence. One does not need to say "Start a fight!" to incite violence.

 

Why, I could just approach a random guy on the street and insult his family with colourful vocabulary. If a police officer saw me, he'd certainly like to have a word with me. And if I was punched in the process, I would still be held partially responsible for that punch (or at least I should, but proving I blatantly provoked the man is the tricky part, most of the cases).

 

Basically, the main reason only her was arrested was because nobody dared hit someone carrying a small child.

[heroicjanitor]

Arresting people for shouting unpopular/offensive opinions loudly is a bit of a slippery slope though, it can prevent needed change. Not as much of an issue today (though they probably said that 50 years ago).

 

In America the Westboro Baptist Church shouts at the family members present at dead soldiers' funerals and don't get arrested. They get police protection. Weird.

 

Just to be clear I agree she should have been arrested :p

Edited November 30, 2011 by heroicjanitor

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Perhaps it's a matter of interpretation, but to me it seemed like she was trying to stir up a reaction. I also don't think it's okay in any case for people to be abusive and cause discomfort for others on public transports. This is regardless of her opinions, by the way. She's free to think whatever she pleases and to speak her opinion, but I don't see why people in public transport should be forced to listen to it, especially in that way.

 

Arresting people for shouting unpopular/offensive opinions loudly is a bit of a slippery slope though, it can prevent needed change. Not as much of an issue today (though they probably said that 50 years ago).

 

In America the Westboro Baptist Church shouts at the family members present at dead soldiers' funerals and don't get arrested. They get police protection. Weird.

 

Just to be clear I agree she should have been arrested :p

 

See, that's precisely the thing: there's a time and place for everything. Public transport is not the place for sharing political messages, and a funeral is not the place for hatred of any kind. This isn't (at least to me) about preventing people from voicing their opinion (regardless of how high a degree of bullshit I may find it reaches), it's about common decency, respect and appropriate behaviour in given situations.