What is the world coming to?

[Emasher]

See, this is racism. Telling people that they have no right to be here and should "go back to their own country"

 

Actually that would be nationalism. Racism implies that the cause for prejudice is race, which it clearly wasn't in this case (she said she wanted people to "go back to their own country" not "People who aren't Caucasoids should go back to their own country"). There's a good chance she was a racist, as the two tend to go hand in hand, but we can't really conclude that from the video (unless I missed something).

 

I have to agree thought that arresting her wasn't warranted. At no time did she cause physical harm to anyone else in expressing her opinion. Nor did she threaten to, or instruct others to do so (or perhaps she did and I missed it). Although she stated her opinions in a very inappropriate way, and I in no way agree with what she said, she hasn't exactly done anything that would qualify as a crime (seeing as the BNP exists, surely nationalism isn't a crime in the UK).

Edited November 28, 2011 by Emasher

[MoogleViper]

"People who aren't Caucasoids should go back to their own country"

 

Is that some sort of white robot?

[ipaul]

Setting a bad example to her kid, I meant in particular. But yeah, I don't think its right that people should be allowed to act like this in public. If she doesn't agree with people coming into the country, then that's her opinion. But, there's a right way to say something and a wrooooong way. On another night, she might not have left that tram alive. Who knows.

 

Well that's her risk to take. We can't simply be arresting people because their opinions are shit and they like to shout them out on public transport.

 

In case you haven't guessed, i am the kind of person who looks at the USA, sees the mental religious people picketing the funerals of homosexuals and hurling abuse at the relatives (and all that sort of thing) and thinks it's actually quite admirable in a way that the USA let's them spout their vile shite.

 

Freedom of speech yo...

[Fierce_LiNk]

Well that's her risk to take. We can't simply be arresting people because their opinions are shit and they like to shout them out on public transport.

 

In case you haven't guessed, i am the kind of person who looks at the USA, sees the mental religious people picketing the funerals of homosexuals and hurling abuse at the relatives (and all that sort of thing) and thinks it's actually quite admirable in a way that the USA let's them spout their vile shite.

 

Freedom of speech yo...

 

Having a shit opinion is one thing. Everyone is entitled to a shit opinion.

 

Telling somebody to fuck off back to their own country, without even knowing who you're talking to is something completely different. That's a command. That's more than just an opinion.

 

Freedom of Speech is important. But, I do believe it can be abused. Such as this case. I don't think it's right for somebody to make others feel like crap when they're essentially just minding their own business. They were on a tram, probably going home or something. It wasn't some sort of demonstration. To me, it was more than just a shit opinion, it was just downright abusive. If not for the swearing alone. Even without the racism, it was pretty awful.

[Emasher]

Is that some sort of white robot?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

 

As opposed to Mongoloid and Negroid.

[Wesley]

See, I don't have a problem with some of the stuff she was actually saying.

 

While I don't agree with her, the essential statements were fine I suppose.

 

"I think immigration has had a negative impact in our country."

 

But swearing like that on public transport, telling people that they're black and burnt.

 

It's clearly something else entirely.

 

Although violence didn't break out, it seems that was probably only the case because she had a young child on her knee.

 

Almost like a human shield.

 

But it could have easily broke out into violence, and some people did seem ready to do so (like that black guy behind her).

 

(Oh crap I just said black...)

 

I dunno.

 

Free speech is awesome.

 

But being a cunt is less awesome.

[Fierce_LiNk]

See, I don't have a problem with some of the stuff she was actually saying.

 

While I don't agree with her, the essential statements were fine I suppose.

 

"I think immigration has had a negative impact in our country."

 

But swearing like that on public transport, telling people that they're black and burnt.

 

It's clearly something else entirely.

 

Although violence didn't break out, it seems that was probably only the case because she had a young child on her knee.

 

Almost like a human shield.

 

But it could have easily broke out into violence, and some people did seem ready to do so (like that black guy behind her).

 

(Oh crap I just said black...)

 

I dunno.

 

Free speech is awesome.

 

But being a cunt is less awesome.

 

That's the jist of what I was trying to get at, yeah.

 

We know she's not the only one with those views, which is something we're just going to have to live with. That, I can accept.

 

But yeah, the manner in which she did it, it was wrong. Completely agree with you about the human shield, too.

 

In general, maybe I just dislike people who shout and swear on public transport.

[MoogleViper]

Freedom of speech yo...

 

The whole concept of laws removes the concept of freedom.

"Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different things. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em."

[ipaul]

In the case of her directly attacking one person about it, my reservations about arrest for this are much less so. If she was just spouting them generally though, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Well I mean I would, but I still think she should be allowed to say it without arrest - although kick her off the train by all means.

 

Just out of interest, what do you guys think about the US and how it allows funerals to be picketed by homophobic hate groups?

[MoogleViper]

Just out of interest, what do you guys think about the US

 

I hate it.

 

...and how it allows funerals to be picketed by homophobic hate groups?

 

Oh sorry, didn't realise there was more to the question.

[Fierce_LiNk]

In the case of her directly attacking one person about it, my reservations about arrest for this are much less so. If she was just spouting them generally though, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Well I mean I would, but I still think she should be allowed to say it without arrest - although kick her off the train by all means.

 

Just out of interest, what do you guys think about the US and how it allows funerals to be picketed by homophobic hate groups?

 

She did imply the whole of the carriage at one point. There's a part when she turns around and says something about the crowd, implying none of them are British. Something like that anyway.

 

Maybe without arrest, but she was causing a disturbance, so some form of action would have been needed.

 

Again, I don't think it's right for people to picket at funerals. There's a time and a place to demonstrate and stuff, but at a funeral, I find that tasteless. If people have those views, fine, that's their opinions. But, doing it at a funeral of all places, horrible. It shows a disrespect for human life.

[Jonnas]

But yeah, it seems fairly clear that there are multiple uses of chav, some of which are classist and many of which aren't. But I don't see why everyone responded to chair with such hatred just because he suggested it was an inherently classist term.

 

I think it was more the "you're as bad as she is" comment that rubbed people the wrong way.

 

 

Anyway, for those wondering if arresting her was the right thing to do, here's a reminder regarding free speech: You are allowed to say anything you want, whenever you want, but inciting hatred or violence is still forbidden.

 

This woman was most certainly doing it, and it was because of that (disturbing public peace or something) and not because she's racist (though that made the process easier and more acceptable).

 

Similarly, someone provoking and cursing at a bunch of racist people should, in theory, be treated the same way (though, in practice, whether they really would or not is a tricky question)

[Beast]

Chav is nothing to do with class but with behaviour. That is how I've always known it and how I will always know it.

 

On the video: Wow, what a stupid bitch! I hate people like that. She blatantly used her child to be protected so nobody would do anything to her. She's clearly being racist and she's extremely offensive. I feel sorry for the people who were actually there on the tram but I applaud them for rising above her stupidity and not stooping to her level. However, the person I feel most sorry for is her child, if she carries on looking after him, he has no chance in life. She's a disgrace and I just pray that the child will be taken care of by better people and better role models! Scum like this make me feel sick and I hope that one day, karma comes back to haunt the cowardly racist!

[ipaul]

I hate it.

 

 

 

Oh sorry, didn't realise there was more to the question.

 

Well who doesn't these days

 

So care to answer?

 

She did imply the whole of the carriage at one point. There's a part when she turns around and says something about the crowd, implying none of them are British. Something like that anyway.

 

Maybe without arrest, but she was causing a disturbance, so some form of action would have been needed.

 

Again, I don't think it's right for people to picket at funerals. There's a time and a place to demonstrate and stuff, but at a funeral, I find that tasteless. If people have those views, fine, that's their opinions. But, doing it at a funeral of all places, horrible. It shows a disrespect for human life.

 

Oh well obviously it's completely tasteless. But do you think people should be arrested for it?

Edited November 29, 2011 by ipaul
Automerged Doublepost

[Beast]

Oh well obviously it's completely tasteless. But do you think people should be arrested for it?

 

I don't know about arrest but all I do know is that Social Services should intervene! Lord knows what that vile bitch has been teaching her son!

[Wesley]

In the case of her directly attacking one person about it, my reservations about arrest for this are much less so. If she was just spouting them generally though, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Well I mean I would, but I still think she should be allowed to say it without arrest - although kick her off the train by all means.

 

Just out of interest, what do you guys think about the US and how it allows funerals to be picketed by homophobic hate groups?

 

I think it embodies everything amazing and awful about America at the same time.

 

I love it.

 

I don't know about arrest but all I do know is that Social Services should intervene! Lord knows what that vile bitch has been teaching her son!

 

True... but I sometimes think about all the children that are taught that homosexuality is a sin and something that should be ashamed of...

[ipaul]

I don't know about arrest but all I do know is that Social Services should intervene! Lord knows what that vile bitch has been teaching her son!

 

Wait are you responding to me or Emasher there?

 

I think it embodies everything amazing and awful about America at the same time.

 

Yeah, I would say that sums it up.

[Platty]

Waste of space scumbag. Poor kid.

 

Looks like she is on Heroin or something the way she keeps chewing her lip.

[The Peeps]

Has she actually been arrested? I don't agree with that so much... maybe just banned from public transport or forced to do community service / anger management / tolerance meeting / back to fucking school.

 

Looking at her in the video... she just seems mentally detached. She's certainly not all there. Is it just pure stupidity or is there actually something wrong with her? How low does your IQ have to be before you're deemed 'special needs'?

[Emasher]

I think it embodies everything amazing and awful about America at the same time.

 

I love it.

 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one here who just wants to watch the world burn.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Well who doesn't these days

 

So care to answer?

 

 

 

Oh well obviously it's completely tasteless. But do you think people should be arrested for it?

 

Honestly, I do. Because they're disturbing what should be a peaceful moment. Somebody has died, their family and friends have a right to a peaceful funeral and those picketers are violating that.

[ipaul]

Honestly, I do. Because they're disturbing what should be a peaceful moment. Somebody has died, their family and friends have a right to a peaceful funeral and those picketers are violating that.

 

Well then we part ways. No matter how despicable I may find what they say, I do think they should be allowed to say it.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Well then we part ways. No matter how despicable I may find what they say, I do think they should be allowed to say it.

 

I do think people should have the freedom to say what they feel, I'm not disputing that. But, above all, we're all human and it just seems wrong (to me anyway) to say these things in that moment.

 

When I think about these scenarios, I imagine if somebody I knew had died and then others decided to picket at their funeral. It just shows a complete lack of compassion for another person, which doesn't sit well with me.

 

Maybe we're not going to agree on it. I do agree with parts of what you're saying, but I just don't like to see others feel bad.

[Emasher]

Honestly, I do. Because they're disturbing what should be a peaceful moment. Somebody has died, their family and friends have a right to a peaceful funeral and those picketers are violating that.

 

If you knew the truth about the motives of WBC you would be all the more disgusted with it.

 

However, keep in mind that they are on public property when protesting and are not allowed into the actual funeral (or any other part of it on private property). Communities and a group of people called the Patriot Guard also try and make it very difficult for them to protest at the funerals as well.

[ipaul]

I do think people should have the freedom to say what they feel, I'm not disputing that. But, above all, we're all human and it just seems wrong (to me anyway) to say these things in that moment.

 

When I think about these scenarios, I imagine if somebody I knew had died and then others decided to picket at their funeral. It just shows a complete lack of compassion for another person, which doesn't sit well with me.

 

Maybe we're not going to agree on it. I do agree with parts of what you're saying, but I just don't like to see others feel bad.

 

Nah it's no problem, I agree with much of what you say, we just disagree about the end point. I appreciate I'm quite absolutist about this kind of point and quite probably in a small minority of people who hold this view, in the UK at least. It's one of the few things that I admire about the US.

 

Their foreign policy in much of the 20th Century however....