Rummy Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I decided to bum out and not go to work today, so I've been able to see my beloved Wright Stuff. It's drawn my attention to this apparent recent controversy(I get very little current affairs in my system atm), and it makes me want to know...what do you guys think about it? (It's ten minutes, but his whites become black thing is in the first few minutes) It could be a hefty subject, let's please think carefully before we post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C.G Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvonne Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 delicious worms! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 He is an utter fuck wit and what he said is wrong. I do feel sorry for him though (I have no idea who he is), some old bloke who's well out the loop with youngsters and is probably frightened by what happened. Of course he's going to pull some crazy bullshit out his arse to make him feel secure about the state of the nation. However, I would agree that their is an increasing gang/chav culture amongst our youth, this isn't particularly something new just the face/style of it has changed. The culture is not race driven, instead I find myself agreeing with the young lad in the video that it is more to do with social and economical issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Peeps Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you ignore the racism you can kind of understand what he's saying. But you obviously shouldn't ignore the racism. He is of the opinion that violence and criminal activity is a part of black culture so if a lot of white people start acting criminally, it means they've become black. No, it means they've become criminals. Race has nothing to do with the riots. I don't think this will be a long thread, I can't see anyone taking Starkey's side in this so there'll be no debate. Just a lot of people posting to say how wrong he is - at least I hope they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killthenet Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's disappointing, because he's one of the better TV historians and usually quite entertaining on Question Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipaul Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Usual attention seeking bullshit from Starkey. He likes to stir shit. Complaining about gang culture is fine, who wouldn't? But pretending it is based almost purely on race, and saying that shit like hip hop has helped transformed our youths into reprehensible tossers, is just desperately out of touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwarf Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I lol'd when he said 'you glorify rap?!' *pulls inquisitive soul-searching glare* Absolutely hilarious, the young white kid loved it as much as me. Never argue with an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Every generation that passes seems to blame something. Whether that's the Sex Pistols corrupting people's minds, video-games causing violence or rap music promoting hatred. It's just very easy to blame these things rather than look at what the problems might be. People are very angry out there, even before these riots. Kids in inner cities are angry. It most definitely is down to social and economical issues, like Ramar said. I do agree with David when he says that it's "shopping with violence." I've no problem with what he's saying there, because he is right. It partly is down to materialism. Nothing to do with race. Children, youths, young adults, people have been very angry for generations now. It's the underclass who consider themselves to be suppressed, feeling cut off from the rest of society. That's why these people are angry, because they feel they have no place. It's very annoying when people hide behind the real problems and just lump it all onto race, gender, nationality, sexuality and so forth. People don't cause trouble because they're black or because they're male, or homosexual or Pakistani. They're free to make those choices themselves. Why they make those choices is where people should be looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't... really get what he was trying to say? I think he decided he'd had enough of his career and decided to end it. Also he looks like he's going to cry all the time for not being allowed to speak. I've never liked him to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimless Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I don't... really get what he was trying to say? I think he was trying to rally against "gangsta" — a sentiment I imagine most here could get behind to some degree — but for some reason he sees that as interchangeable with black culture, which is almost too bizarre to be insulting. Quite why crime — which has been around for a fair bit — isn't reflective of white culture only he knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zechs Merquise Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I think there is a serious point to take from this. And a point I have heard several other raise - including those from the black community. Young blacks in inner city areas often choose rap stars and hip hop stars as their role models, as they are seen as strong alpha males who have achieved a phenomenal level of financial success. These same people do promote gang culture, drug culture and glorify violence and the use of guns and weapons. The problem is, young males often then seek to emulate this 'lifestyle' and sadly it leads down a dead end street of death or incarceration. Young people listening to that kind of thing and looking for role models can often end up on a slippery slope. They hear their favorite stars rapping about how 'guns, drugs and bitches' got them out of the 'ghetto' and think that they can take the same path. If I remember correctly Ms Dynamite spoke out against the glorification of gang culture and violence in rap and hip hop and produced a video that highlighted her critique: Edited August 24, 2011 by Zechs Merquise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Remember when shootings in America were blamed on Marilyn Manson.. same shit different genre. Blame culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I find myself...disillusioned? I dunno. Maybe bold of me to say it, but I agree with his early sentiments about the transference of some 'black' cultures into the white modern youth. I think he has a very valid point there, in fact. I don't believe however, it was at all relevant to the riots. I think it's part of what makes this quite a controversial video. Watching it also, I'm not sure there's anywhere he actually explicitly says that it's a direct link, though I may have been mistaken. For the record, I don't think any race, colour, or specific cultures caused or contributed to the riots. I do however, strangely, think that he made a semi-valid point about a matter not related. What interests me is how he seems to be either wholly welcomed, or wholly dismissed. I'd meant to post more/better, but right now I'm a littly drinky and didn't want to keep putting off replying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I'm generally more dismayed by the whole 'theory' approach to things like youth problems or creed culture stereotypes. People trying to make a name for themselves or cause controversy by defining things does nothing fantastic at all. It should be entirely discouraged to broadly assume or assess sitautions like this because the amount of marginalised minorities that dispute such claims will total up to become the majority. I dislike and do not respect people who make generalisations because doing so utterly depersonalises any individuals in the claimed group, and suggests that the only solution to such a blanket definition is a therefore a similar one-size-fits-all cure, whereas any realistic fix is going to demand specific, tailor-fitted remedying. One group in Tottenham rioting will do so for molecularly different reasons to a group in manchester, for example. The only other comment I can make is that the osmosis of behaviour from one yore-defined group of people into another pool is one step towards the altruistic Prime-Directive-esque future :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think he makes a valid point about the "gangsta" culture originating within a predominantly black community, but I don't really see how that's relevant to the riots, or relevant in general, as people should be judged on the individual level, not based on where they come from. It seems more likely that the riots were caused by a bunch of youths with an entitlement complex who thought the world owed them something because its been ingrained into them that society has been unjust to them by pseudo-liberals. Evolving into "we should do this because we can get away with it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Is the only problem here that he is calling "Gangster" culture "Black" Culture? Or is the fact that he is blaming Gangster culture a problem too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Is the only problem here that he is calling "Gangster" culture "Black" Culture? Or is the fact that he is blaming Gangster culture a problem too? Yes. No. I dislike and do not respect people who make generalisations Why? Generalisations are a useful tool. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them. It's like saying "I hate people who use similes". the problem lies with people misusing and misunderstanding generalisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Being able to define and distinguish between overtly similar things is indeed useful, but as you say, the scope for misuse in politics and the media is quite large and I don't see how that means that generalisations can be wholely good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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