Paj! Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Yesterday A 16 year-old girl commited suicide by jumping from the 3rd floor of Bentalls Mall in Kingston. She plummeted, whacked her leg on one of the jutting out bits, ripping it off, and then smacked to the basement floor and presuambly exploded. Very haunting...all the students at Kingston Uni go there...I was there the day before. What REALLY gets me is that she did it in Bentalls. It's very tall, so yeah she would have fucking blown up upon impact, but also the basement is where McDonalds is, and where LOADS of Schoolchildren sit and eat (outside the restaurant). How traumatising for them to have seen that. And what if she'd fallen on someone? Oh yeah, Mothercare is in the basement too. Nice for the little kids to see. VERY selfish I think. Anyway. Some friends and I went today, it was strange to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm not sure when you're in as dark a place as that, that you really take much time to think whether it would ruin someone else's Happy Meal or not! Same thing with people jumping off motorway bridges, where you're almost 100% guaranteed to fuck someone elses life up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well, suicides are pretty "selfish" in that the suicidal person "quits" his or her problems while leaving the family and friends with the grief. I've never liked that viewpoint, though, as it makes the victim out to be the bad guy. Bottom line, suicides are terrible for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well, suicides are pretty "selfish" in that the suicidal person "quits" his or her problems while leaving the family and friends with the grief. I've never liked that viewpoint, though, as it makes the victim out to be the bad guy. That's not why paj was saying they're selfish though. He's saying she was selfish because she risked potentially killing somebody else and emotionally damaging other people/children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 That's not why paj was saying they're selfish though. He's saying she was selfish because she risked potentially killing somebody else and emotionally damaging other people/children. I know, but I just wanted to point out that suicides are pretty selfish no matter what. There are always people left who have been negatively affected by a suicide, whether they're family or friends or unlucky witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I know, but I just wanted to point out that suicides are pretty selfish no matter what. There are always people left who have been negatively affected by a suicide, whether they're family or friends or unlucky witnesses. Oh I know but I personally wouldn't consider them selfish. I think that everyone has the right to end their own life. Friends and family will be negatively affected by the death more than the actual suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Paj; ok if I thrip into a "thoughts on suicide" thread? I know we've trodden that ground before but it was at least a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ja. 10chars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReZourceman Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Paj; ok if I thrip into a "thoughts on suicide" thread? I know we've trodden that ground before but it was at least a year ago. Knock yourself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Oh I know but I personally wouldn't consider them selfish. I think that everyone has the right to end their own life. Friends and family will be negatively affected by the death more than the actual suicide. I don't like to call them selfish, either, for reasons stated above. I understand what you're getting at, I just think it's a weird distinction you're making/Paj's making/that's being made. Whether it's the act of suicide or the death itself, whether it's strangers or loved ones, if we simplify it (which I'm not a fan of, but which I'll do for the sake of the argument), it breaks down to this: You're making a choice that affects you "positively" and your surroundings negatively; that is pretty much the definition of selfishness. Whether you believe people have a right to end their own lives or not doesn't affect this logical conclusion as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 I'm not usually too "!!!" about public suicide (as were I ever to take my own life, however unlikely, I imagine I'd want to go in a big dramatic statement too), but I never really considered how different it is to jump from a height to your death OUTSIDE than it is INSIDE. The entire space of the shopping mall (which is a bit like a a rectangle focused around the space she fell through) was affected by her jumping. Outside she'd have plopped to the ground but it's open, people can avoid witnessing/being so directly affected by it (usually). (P.S I love the escalator that skips a floor to reach the top, crossing the entire space. Feels uncliched) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have an uncle who commited suicide, I consider him very selfish. He did it by jumping infront of a train, an act that pretty much ruined my Nans life and the train drivers apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (P.S I love the escalator that skips a floor to reach the top, crossing the entire space. Feels uncliched) You do realise that the term 'cliché' applies to expression, ideas or an element of artistic work that's overused to the point where it looses its original meaning or purpose? It doesn't apply to practical items used in a practical and efficient way. Anyway, I feel that suicide in such a manner isn't as selfish as it appears on face value - to be at a place in your life where taking your own life seems to be a reasonable option, the effect it may have on others is probably not anywhere near the things on your mind. That said, if you park your car on a level crossing, it's a dickmove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well, suicides are pretty "selfish" in that the suicidal person "quits" his or her problems while leaving the family and friends with the grief. I've never liked that viewpoint, though, as it makes the victim out to be the bad guy. Bottom line, suicides are terrible for everyone. Discuss the differences between suicide, self-sacrifice and voluntary death. I think that suicide being 'selfish' is a very socialised reaction. I don't agree that they are intrinsically linked, at all. Schopenhauer saw voluntary death as an affirmation of life; "Think of life as a racetrack which is run continually, with most of it consisting of glowing coals. He who is under the illusion finds comfort in the few cool places onto which he hops while running his course. But he who knows the essence of things, and in that the whole of reality, is not amenable to this comfort anymore: he knows he really is on all parts of the track at the same time, and he steps out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmMarti Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 When you want to comit suicide, and are that low in life/yourself. You really dont care who will be affected by it. You just want out. thats a horrible story though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Discuss the differences between suicide, self-sacrifice and voluntary death. I think that suicide being 'selfish' is a very socialised reaction. I don't agree that they are intrinsically linked, at all. Schopenhauer saw voluntary death as an affirmation of life; "Think of life as a racetrack which is run continually, with most of it consisting of glowing coals. He who is under the illusion finds comfort in the few cool places onto which he hops while running his course. But he who knows the essence of things, and in that the whole of reality, is not amenable to this comfort anymore: he knows he really is on all parts of the track at the same time, and he steps out." As I said above, it's a very simplified viewpoint I've given. Generally I don't view suicide as selfish. I was just arguing that I don't agree with the distinction that Moogle made regarding what part of it is "selfish". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 You do realise that the term 'cliché' applies to expression, ideas or an element of artistic work that's overused to the point where it looses its original meaning or purpose? It doesn't apply to practical items used in a practical and efficient way. Every good thread needs a side-bar. In short; no. Practical items can be ergonomically and aesthetically pleasing. The former is your practicality, the latter is irrelevant to the object and is indeed more of an abstract that we mere mortals tag things with - but anything can be aesthetically cliché. your definition of cliché is soo cliché. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) As I said above, it's a very simplified viewpoint I've given. Generally I don't view suicide as selfish. I was just arguing that I don't agree with the distinction that Moogle made regarding what part of it is "selfish". Not exactly sure why I quoted you actually. Cos I agree with you. Kind of. Edited January 18, 2011 by Daft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I know, but I just wanted to point out that suicides are pretty selfish no matter what. There are always people left who have been negatively affected by a suicide, whether they're family or friends or unlucky witnesses. I've always had a similar view point to you but after reading this, It changed somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Every good thread needs a side-bar. In short; no. Practical items can be ergonomically and aesthetically pleasing. The former is your practicality, the latter is irrelevant to the object and is indeed more of an abstract that we mere mortals tag things with - but anything can be aesthetically cliché. your definition of cliché is soo cliché. I've just finished Clive Bell's Art, aesthetics can fuck right off for the time being... Anyway, suicide is something I've got mixed feelings on - ever since I've seen someone jump off the top of a building in York after the crowd below started chanting 'jump, jump, jump', I have to admit it's something I prefer not to think about if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't think suicide is necessarily linked with selfishness. It seems too generalised of an opinion to have. I suppose it could be seen as quite selfish in some cases such as if a single parent killed themselves through suicide and left many kids behind. Usually, I pity the death of the person instead. Also, something to think about, I know one of my friends who has experience of losing someone through suicide and he always hated the phrase "committed suicide". It implies it's sinful. So, I try not to use that anymore as I agree. I think it's a good habit to kick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I've always had a similar view point to you but after reading this, It changed somewhat. I hope you know that the post you quoted is not my actual opinion on suicide. I didn't read the entire thing (it's pretty long), but I got the idea behind it, and I am entirely sympathetic. Like I've said, I don't think suicide is selfish. "Selfish" carries with it the notion that you must never put yourself before others, and while it's an honourable concept, it's also hopelessly simplified to the point where it doesn't actually hold true, even for the most generous and giving people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 One word: stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 If life is just pain and suffering then there's no point in living. However emotional pain has many ways of treatment and I think all options must be sought after and tried before deciding it's not worth it. I don't think suicide is ever selfish, but it can be premature. One word: stupid. It's not always stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It's not always stupid. Okay then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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