Twilight Princess

[Ronnie]

That and more basic things like a ridiculously small set of items, certainly not much beyond the reguars, no compass, no wallet upgrades (?), no quarter hearts, no real freedom in terms of exploration, just closed off sections with cutscenes for transitions. It became Accessible to All Zelda. All of which came at a time when Nintendo were going on about being able to draw on the map or blow into the microphone. It makes me wonder about their priorities for Zelda games these days.

[Jonnas]

That and more basic things like a ridiculously small set of items, certainly not much beyond the reguars,

 

To be fair, the Boomerang, Bombchus and Hammer were completely different from previous iterations.

 

no compass, no wallet upgrades (?), no quarter hearts,

 

I've already addressed the compass. Completely useless.

 

Having a huge wallet from the beginning was great, considering the huge amounts of money in the game. Would you prefer the game to pull a Twilight Princess on you, and make money useless?

 

The quarter hearts thing is nitpicking.

 

And honestly, aside maybe from the wallet thing, I really don't see how any of that is dumbing down the game.

 

no real freedom in terms of exploration, just closed off sections with cutscenes for transitions.

 

The differences between the sea and land? Annoying, yes. I did prefer the seamless transitions found in WW.

 

I will disagree on the exploration thing, though. There were plenty of extra islands to explore, and little bits of treasure hidden everywhere, for the sake of it.

 

It became Accessible to All Zelda. All of which came at a time when Nintendo were going on about being able to draw on the map or blow into the microphone. It makes me wonder about their priorities for Zelda games these days.

 

Hey, scribbling on the map was awesome. I'll miss it on future Zelda games for sure.

 

As for the priorities, like I said, Nintendo has learned from the mistakes in PH. I wouldn't be worried.

 

 

Also, this is getting a bit off-topic...

[Grazza]

Why would the DS games need things like a compass? For the trips, you use your map to move, and for the foot sections, it would be insulting to your intelligence.

WW needed that compass to help you guide yourself through the sea, steer your boat properly, etc. Adding it to the DS games would show a complete lack of understanding of those games' mechanics.

 

I meant the dungeon compass that indicates which rooms have treasure, keys etc.

[Nicktendo]

Reading this thread is REALLY making me want to play Wind Waker again.

[Jonnas]

I meant the dungeon compass that indicates which rooms have treasure, keys etc.

 

Oh, THAT compass.

 

...Honestly, I liked not having it I prefer the system used in the DS games.

[Grazza]

Oh, THAT compass.

 

...Honestly, I liked not having it I prefer the system used in the DS games.

 

Paying a statue? Fair enough.

[Fused King]

Always love myself a good The Legend of Zelda thread, so much to read, so much to think about.

 

Will not be looking at any trailers/news about Skyward Sword.

I'm putting my foot down on this one, I want to be completely surprised!

 

Paying a statue? Fair enough.

 

Hey, at least there's something to throw those millions of rupees at:laughing:

Edited December 6, 2010 by Fused King
Automerged Doublepost

[Grazza]

One thing I did love about Twilight Princess was the music. I can still hear myself at Lake Hylia now, and I also loved the overworld music.

[Ronnie]

I really liked the Snowpeak mansion music, it's the only dungeon music I can remember. Oh I can also remember the City in the Sky "music"

 

I'm also not ashamed to say I got a bit of a fright in that cavern at Lake Hylia after whatever temple it was... Link turns around and Zant's just standing there 2 feet away. That was cool.

[LostOverThere]

I liked the tunes of the music, but boy did it sound really really computerised.

[Guy]

I can't remember ANYTHING about this game at all. I played it at launch and it has dissolved in my mind like fire against ice. Does this speak for the quality of the game? Probably.

 

I can recall defending the hell out of it in arguments a few years ago too, wow.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'm replaying this again, and this is going to be my "Christmas time alone with myself" game. The best way is to play this in the early hours of the morning. Just like I did when it originally came out.

 

I fucking love this game. Never understood why it was so hated or disliked. I love the atmosphere and I do find the Twilight "World" quite haunting, particularly the beasts. The music that also plays during these sections is also very Silent Hill-esque.

 

It's quite a dark Zelda game, and I love it for that. Loved every second I've played of it so far. Have just done the "Bridge Duel" after the field battle. A brilliant set piece and it's right up there with the best set pieces in Zelda history. The build up to that with the attack in the village, it's brilliant.

[LostOverThere]

The Bridge Duel is masterful. With the music and the scenery it all just looks great.

 

I'm ashamed I never finished TP.

[Captain Falcon]

I fucking love this game. Never understood why it was so hated or disliked.

 

People moan about it for a variety of reasons.

 

Some feel the overworld was too lacking in things to do whilst others moaned about how it was split into small chunks... (I'd figure that latter issue is to do with the limited amount of RAM of the GC and the little valleys that the game forces you through where you can't see anything but walls are there to mask the loading).

 

There is also the issue of the second half of the game and it's pacing. The first part has you doing lots of things between dungeons but the once you get the Master Sword, the things you have to do in between become less and less.Whereas you would spend hours making your way from one to the next in the opening half, the rest to come very quickly after each other with little in the way of exploration.

 

Then there is the item use with things like the double Clawshots, the Spinner, the Dominion Rod getting almost no use at all outside their own dungeon. The spinner helped to create that awesome spectacle of a fight against the Lord Stalfos but apart from a heart piece in the passage that links the Nayru field area to Lake Hylia (so you can avoid the castle) I can't think of another use for it off the top of my head.

 

Some take issue with the story and how Ganon suddenly pops up and the end and undermines Zant as a credible enemy - not to mention the scene when he has his tantrum.

 

 

Still, the quest for the filling in the book of the sky people was darn sight less tedious than the Tri-Force hut and that's something we can all be grateful for

 

Me personally, the only thing there I take issue with is the limited use of some of the items. It's like someone had a great idea, but despite being unable to fully realize and exploit it, they went along with it anyway.

 

It's a good game, and a better one than Wind Waker, but it's no Majora's Mask or, heaven forbid, A Link to the Past.

 

I'm ashamed I never finished TP.

 

As well you should be!

Edited December 19, 2010 by Captain Falcon

[Grazza]

The spinner helped to create that awesome spectacle of a fight against the Lord Stalfos but apart from a heart piece in the passage that links the Nayru field area to Lake Hylia (so you can avoid the castle) I can't think of another use for it off the top of my head.

 

There's also a section in Castle Town South.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I've been playing this for about 6 or so hours again today. This really is beautiful. The music when Midna needs to be taken to the Castle (Midna's deperate hour) is so haunting and beautiful, could quite easily have fitted into a metroid game.

 

I'm going to reply to an earlier post that I forgot to add to.

 

People moan about it for a variety of reasons.

 

Some feel the overworld was too lacking in things to do whilst others moaned about how it was split into small chunks... (I'd figure that latter issue is to do with the limited amount of RAM of the GC and the little valleys that the game forces you through where you can't see anything but walls are there to mask the loading).

 

Hmm, this is quite nit-picky, to be honest. It probably is to do with the loading, but I don't think it detracts anything from the overall experience. The field is huge, and if it were made now it probably would be one complete section, who knows.

 

 

There is also the issue of the second half of the game and it's pacing. The first part has you doing lots of things between dungeons but the once you get the Master Sword, the things you have to do in between become less and less.Whereas you would spend hours making your way from one to the next in the opening half, the rest to come very quickly after each other with little in the way of exploration.

 

I've never understood this issue at all. The game takes a while before the momentum is established, especially in the earlier sections where you play as the wolf. After the fourth dungeon with the introduction of who shall not be named, the game has gathered pace. It doesn't need anymore build-up.

 

The funny thing is that if the game's pace had been slower in the second half, there would be issues about that. I've never seen it as a problem, but that's just me.

 

Then there is the item use with things like the double Clawshots, the Spinner, the Dominion Rod getting almost no use at all outside their own dungeon. The spinner helped to create that awesome spectacle of a fight against the Lord Stalfos but apart from a heart piece in the passage that links the Nayru field area to Lake Hylia (so you can avoid the castle) I can't think of another use for it off the top of my head.

 

There are occassions where you need the dominion rod outside of the dungeon, particularly in hyrule field. Are we also going to complain that there was no usage for the ice or light arrows outside of battles within dungeons in Ocarina of Time? I think this is one argument that isn't just limited to Twilight Princess.

 

 

Some take issue with the story and how Ganon suddenly pops up and the end and undermines Zant as a credible enemy - not to mention the scene when he has his tantrum.

 

I initially agreed with this. Although, on my second playthrough, Zant does leaves hints about the power that he has obtained, particularly in the sequence straight after the lakebed temple where he refers to "his God." The God, which we later find out to be Ganon.

 

Ganon was a false God and Zant wasn't fit to be King, and the scene with the tantrum (coupled with his arrogance and his actions in Hyrule) show why Zant is truely a false King.

 

Still, the quest for the filling in the book of the sky people was darn sight less tedious than the Tri-Force hut and that's something we can all be grateful for

 

Me personally, the only thing there I take issue with is the limited use of some of the items. It's like someone had a great idea, but despite being unable to fully realize and exploit it, they went along with it anyway.

 

It's a good game, and a better one than Wind Waker, but it's no Majora's Mask or, heaven forbid, A Link to the Past.

 

As well you should be!

 

I definitely rate it higher than Wind Waker. I love Majora's Mask, but it really grates me when it is compared to other Zelda games in the way that it is. It's not a fair comparison because Majora is really different to the others. For a start, its less focused on a long and epic journey (not saying that Majora isn't epic. It's possibly my favourite Zelda) but the focus isn't on the main quest as such. Hence why there was an enormous amount to do within the game, as a large part of the game was based on the sidequests and getting to know the lives of the people of Clock Town, or the whole of Termina.

 

Also, one thing that is under-rated about Twilight is the fact that there is a lot to collect. Like collecting all of the poes, the bugs, the heart pieces, etc. There's still an awful lot to do. It's still something like a 50 or 60 hour game, maybe a bit more if you want to get everything. Gets far too much criticism, imo.

[Jamba]

There are somethings about this game that I really liked and I want to start with this as it does deserve some major praise as well as criticism:

 

1. Midna - Best character Nintendo has made in ages. I thought she was well scripted and I loved her almost sweet'n'sour relationship with Link. Decent bit of comedy and she had depth even if it was inferred rather than pointed out directly.

 

2. I liked the new editions to the world. Oockoo and Yeti were class and I would happily see the in future games (oh wait! ST had Yeti... YAY!)

 

3. Visual direction - I thought this was sublime. Character design, use of colour in many places, a feeling of culture and beauty. I do wish that they had used a slightly less washed out palette. I remember that the dark world sections used to look more like underwater Hyrule in WW but the over bloomed look they ended up using gelled very well with Wolf and Midna.

 

4. Opening village - This was lovely and I genuinely felt connections to the people there. It was vibrant and full of life. I loved the fact that there was a pregnant woman there as it added to that sense of community.

 

 

Now here come the gripes and I promise to keep them to my major ones as I can complain or criticise things til the cows come home:

 

1. Understimulated - I really felt that the whole way through the game that I wasn't challenged or had to use my brain. The dungeons extremely poor for this as practically every room I went into, I easily identified every puzzle element in a heart beat not asking me to use my brain for the majority of the game. Everything about the level design screamed it was so obvious especially out in the field where things were "labelled" to use a particular weapons in places. This filtered into the bosses, the only well designed ones of which were hugely spoilt by review and preview videos.

 

2. Weapons - This was something that PH really remedied. Each weapon in this game could do pretty much 1 thing and usually that was a bit tame. Many of them were rehashes of tired old weapons (don't give a shit about the bow anymore!) or could only be used in very specific "labelled" places.

 

3. Pace and Predictability - This was a killer as I knew what was coming for the majority of the game as soon as I identified it:

• Enter area as wolf and collect tears
  
• Enter dungeon and complete as Wolf
  
• Get interrupted by mandatory sidequest grrrrrr....
  
• Enter same dungeon as Link and collect dungeon weapon.
  
• Use dungeon weapon repeatedly until bored of it before having to kill boss with said weapon
  
• Leave for next area only to be interrupted by mandatory side quest before being able to enter.
  

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game. *sigh*

 

4. Dilution - Many of the joys of Zelda games (and Metroid games) is revisiting places and finding a completely new dimension to them. OoT, MM, LttP and MC were masterful at this as they all had ways of making you go back through an area in a completely different way, sometimes 3 or 4 times. It really felt like they used the areas in the game to their full capacity. TP heavily failed to do this, which included with a pregnant over world made the whole world feel watered down.

 

5. Lack of Adventure - I think this is mostly down to how dull Link seemed but there were only a few times where I felt like I was genuinely in danger or excited by the adventure of TP. Sneaking into Hyrule in OoT alone was better than most of the dungeons for this feeling.

 

 

So yeah there you have it. I was much happier with PH and ST as Zelda games despite their flaws. I'm much happier that Nintendo re-focused on the fun side of Zelda rather than the dramatics. I also think that Zelda to be truly great again it needs to be completely rethought in terms of gameplay and design. It's falling into the JRPG trap now...

[Retro_Link]

I was just gonna write my thoughts/response, but it ended up being a bit negative really, there wasn't a great deal I liked about the game tbh.

[Grazza]

The other day I was thinking how much better the overworld of Spirit Tracks was, and that's on N64-type hardware (sub-N64 really). When you visit the Gorons in TP, it hardly feels at all like you're climbing a mountain. In ST, on the other hand, it really feels like you're travelling up a considerable-sized one. Same goes for the forest in Spirit Tracks. Twilight Princess had more detailed graphics, but ST had a much better overworld, despite the technical limitations. They weren't afraid to use space. At least this all points to Zelda heading in the right direction again (as Spirit Tracks is the most recent one).

 

I just don't know what was up with Twilight Princess. It doesn't even feel like it was made by the same people as Wind Waker (which, however much you like or dislike it, was a visionary piece of software). I can only suggest that most of Nintendo's genius went into Super Mario Galaxy at that time. Let's hope it comes back to Zelda before too long.

[Ronnie]

I've never understood this issue at all. The game takes a while before the momentum is established, especially in the earlier sections where you play as the wolf. After the fourth dungeon with the introduction of who shall not be named, the game has gathered pace. It doesn't need anymore build-up.

 

The funny thing is that if the game's pace had been slower in the second half, there would be issues about that. I've never seen it as a problem, but that's just me.

 

You've never understood the fact that the second half felt rushed? How you could would walk out of the Snowpeak Mansion and basically stroll into the Temple of Time 15 minutes later? Durations between dungeons are supposed to get longer as the adventure progresses, TP just felt rushed, like they ran out of ideas as the game went on, which was a shame as there were plenty of things to do between dungeons in the first half of the game.

 

There were definite pacing issues, and the storyline stalled as well, with basically nothing happening and seeming like Link could take however long he wanted to gather the mirror shards.

 

Also, one thing that is under-rated about Twilight is the fact that there is a lot to collect. Like collecting all of the poes, the bugs, the heart pieces, etc. There's still an awful lot to do.

 

There's heart pieces to collect in every Zelda game. There certainly isn't any more collecting in TP than any other game. The point stands, there's actually very little to do in the TP world, apart from collecting bugs and poes. It's very barren, especially compared with MM and WW.

 

 

I definitely rate it higher than Wind Waker

 

Wind Waker was pure creative genius. One of the greatest things to happen to the Zelda franchise. It had magic and heart at every turn, plot twists aplenty and loads to do. Twilight Princess, whilst a good game, felt bland, lifeless and unimportant.

[Fierce_LiNk]

There are somethings about this game that I really liked and I want to start with this as it does deserve some major praise as well as criticism:

 

1. Midna - Best character Nintendo has made in ages. I thought she was well scripted and I loved her almost sweet'n'sour relationship with Link. Decent bit of comedy and she had depth even if it was inferred rather than pointed out directly.

 

2. I liked the new editions to the world. Oockoo and Yeti were class and I would happily see the in future games (oh wait! ST had Yeti... YAY!)

 

3. Visual direction - I thought this was sublime. Character design, use of colour in many places, a feeling of culture and beauty. I do wish that they had used a slightly less washed out palette. I remember that the dark world sections used to look more like underwater Hyrule in WW but the over bloomed look they ended up using gelled very well with Wolf and Midna.

 

4. Opening village - This was lovely and I genuinely felt connections to the people there. It was vibrant and full of life. I loved the fact that there was a pregnant woman there as it added to that sense of community.

 

 

Now here come the gripes and I promise to keep them to my major ones as I can complain or criticise things til the cows come home:

 

1. Understimulated - I really felt that the whole way through the game that I wasn't challenged or had to use my brain. The dungeons extremely poor for this as practically every room I went into, I easily identified every puzzle element in a heart beat not asking me to use my brain for the majority of the game. Everything about the level design screamed it was so obvious especially out in the field where things were "labelled" to use a particular weapons in places. This filtered into the bosses, the only well designed ones of which were hugely spoilt by review and preview videos.

 

2. Weapons - This was something that PH really remedied. Each weapon in this game could do pretty much 1 thing and usually that was a bit tame. Many of them were rehashes of tired old weapons (don't give a shit about the bow anymore!) or could only be used in very specific "labelled" places.

 

3. Pace and Predictability - This was a killer as I knew what was coming for the majority of the game as soon as I identified it:

• Enter area as wolf and collect tears
  
• Enter dungeon and complete as Wolf
  
• Get interrupted by mandatory sidequest grrrrrr....
  
• Enter same dungeon as Link and collect dungeon weapon.
  
• Use dungeon weapon repeatedly until bored of it before having to kill boss with said weapon
  
• Leave for next area only to be interrupted by mandatory side quest before being able to enter.
  

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game. *sigh*

 

4. Dilution - Many of the joys of Zelda games (and Metroid games) is revisiting places and finding a completely new dimension to them. OoT, MM, LttP and MC were masterful at this as they all had ways of making you go back through an area in a completely different way, sometimes 3 or 4 times. It really felt like they used the areas in the game to their full capacity. TP heavily failed to do this, which included with a pregnant over world made the whole world feel watered down.

 

5. Lack of Adventure - I think this is mostly down to how dull Link seemed but there were only a few times where I felt like I was genuinely in danger or excited by the adventure of TP. Sneaking into Hyrule in OoT alone was better than most of the dungeons for this feeling.

 

 

So yeah there you have it. I was much happier with PH and ST as Zelda games despite their flaws. I'm much happier that Nintendo re-focused on the fun side of Zelda rather than the dramatics. I also think that Zelda to be truly great again it needs to be completely rethought in terms of gameplay and design. It's falling into the JRPG trap now...

 

That's a long and detailed post, which I will properly reply to later.

 

I have to massively agree with you about the part of Midna, and then at the same time have to massively disagree with you about the designs for the temples. I've done the water temple today and despite having done it before, I found it pretty challenging. Not on the same level as...say something out of Metroid Prime, but I enjoyed it and didn't find it a breeze.

 

I will have to say though that boss fights in Zelda, for example, have never been difficult. I wonder if Nintendo will ever throw a hard mode into the mix, allowing more experienced players a difficult challenge. They probably never will, but it's worth looking at.

 

Surely the part about pace and predictability only applies to the first three dungeons. If not, then it contradicts somewhat the arguments that other people are putting cross about it being rushed towards the end, whereas you're saying it's the same all the way through.

 

About the weapons: I actually thought that the weapons were a good mix in this game. They were modified somewhat, like the Bomb Arrows, which hasn't appeared too often in the series. Very useful in the Lakebed temple. The gale boomerang was also a great weapon or tool in the first dungeon. Plus, you had the ball and chain which ooowned, although it was criminally underused in other areas of the game. The spinner was different, as was the ideas of the dual hookshot and dominion rod.

 

I'd like to see these weapons return in future games and have more useage, definitely. It would be good to go back to earlier areas of the game and use these weapons to find unlockables. Nintendo implement this well in their Metroid games, so it would be good if they could do this more often in other games.

 

You've never understood the fact that the second half felt rushed? How you could would walk out of the Snowpeak Mansion and basically stroll into the Temple of Time 15 minutes later? Durations between dungeons are supposed to get longer as the adventure progresses, TP just felt rushed, like they ran out of ideas as the game went on, which was a shame as there were plenty of things to do between dungeons in the first half of the game.

 

Like I already mentioned, the first half in the game was all about establishing ideas and momentum. Once the momentum has been recreated, there's simply no need to establish it and you can just "get on" with the game. An example of this (somewhat bizarre) is sex. You don't suddenly stop halfway through and initiate foreplay again. (sorry, honestly the first example that came into my head. Came. Haha.)

 

Had they spent more time in between dungeons, I'm willing to bet that there would be a great number of gamers complaining that the game was being dragged out. If anything, I thought it was just right. Also, at that point in the game, you're pretty clear on what you have to do, you know who the main enemies are by now, how the plot is turning out, so now it's all about resolve. It's about getting through the dungeons and into that final showdown. It seems that Nintendo learned their lesson somewhat from the last quarter of Wind Waker, with The Hunt. There's no need to add things in which aren't needed and will possibly detract from the actual game or experience.

 

It's not like it was a complete blur until the final boss anyway, considering that we had some incredibly memorable dungeons and battles in the second half of the game. Arbiter's Grounds, Snowpeak and even the Temple of Time were unconventional temples compared to what we're used to in past Zelda games. Very enjoyable.

 

There were definite pacing issues, and the storyline stalled as well, with basically nothing happening and seeming like Link could take however long he wanted to gather the mirror shards.

 

There's heart pieces to collect in every Zelda game. There certainly isn't any more collecting in TP than any other game. The point stands, there's actually very little to do in the TP world, apart from collecting bugs and poes. It's very barren, especially compared with MM and WW.

 

Sure, there's heart pieces in every Zelda game. Which stands to reason that there's still a lot of collecting to do in the game, with the usual stuff such as bigger wallets, etc. However, it was quite challenging to get all the bugs and poes, and all the heart pieces. There's enough there to go back to.

 

The argument with Majora's Mask, as I stated above is completely unfair as a large portion of the game is centered/centred around sidequests. You are in one world for 3 days, Groundhog Day syndrome (awesome film btw), so you get to know the characters, their lives, and how the people of Clock Town live from day to day. The dynamics in the game are completely different to how Ocarina of Time works, for example.

 

 

 

Wind Waker was pure creative genius. One of the greatest things to happen to the Zelda franchise. It had magic and heart at every turn, plot twists aplenty and loads to do. Twilight Princess, whilst a good game, felt bland, lifeless and unimportant.

 

Wind Waker flattered to deceive. Aside from the gorgeous visuals, I found it exactly how you found Twilight Princess, bland and unimportant. There was a golden period in the game with the submerged hyrule, but it peaked there for me. It didn't interest me anywhere near as much as the other 3D games, or as much as it did for other people on this forum. I know most gamers think the opposite on this issue to me, but I have my own views on this game.

 

Twilight Princess isn't a perfect Zelda game and maybe isn't even the best Zelda game for me (that honour changes monthly, mostly split between Ocarina and Majora, sometimes ALttP) but it's one hell of a game. I'm finding my second playthrough to be probably even more enjoyable than the first. Give it a go, you might see things a bit differently.

 

Either way, we've been incredibly lucky with the Zelda series to have had so many great games. Look at the Final Fantasy series and how that is being milked and killed for every penny. So, as long as effort and care go into future Zelda games, we'll all be happy.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Fierce_LiNk

[Ronnie]

Like I already mentioned, the first half in the game was all about establishing ideas and momentum. Once the momentum has been recreated, there's simply no need to establish it and you can just "get on" with the game. An example of this (somewhat bizarre) is sex. You don't suddenly stop halfway through and initiate foreplay again. (sorry, honestly the first example that came into my head. Came. Haha.)

 

What flimsy senseless reasoning. Complete exscuse-making. The second half of the game felt lifeless and empty, with very little to do between dungeons, it's very hard to argue against that, but congrats on trying.

 

There's no need to add things in which aren't needed and will possibly detract from the actual game or experience.

 

I'm not talking about a triforce hunt, I'm talking about having a constant supply of things to do between dungeons. Getting into the City in the Sky was pretty good, there was certainly enough to do to get up there, but before and after that it was severely lacking, and is one of the main complaints about the game.

 

The argument with Majora's Mask, as I stated above is completely unfair as a large portion of the game is centered/centred around sidequests. You are in one world for 3 days, Groundhog Day syndrome (awesome film btw), so you get to know the characters, their lives, and how the people of Clock Town live from day to day. The dynamics in the game are completely different to how Ocarina of Time works, for example.

 

Ok, even discounting MM (and btw, the main quest was huge and the sidequests simply added a layer on top of that, proving you can have an epic game and have plenty to do in your own time), but what about WW then? Lots to do. TP felt empty, forget bug and poe collecting, can you think of anything else?

 

Wind Waker flattered to deceive. Aside from the gorgeous visuals, I found it exactly how you found Twilight Princess, bland and unimportant

 

Oh dear

[Jonnas]

Ok, even discounting MM (and btw, the main quest was huge and the sidequests simply added a layer on top of that, proving you can have an epic game and have plenty to do in your own time), but what about WW then? Lots to do. TP felt empty, forget bug and poe collecting, can you think of anything else?

 

If you're going to selectively ignore aspects of the game, you're not winning this argument.

 

Personally, I found those two sidequests to be annoying because they didn't give anything. In other games, certain sidequests unlock something else (even if it's just a piece of heart), but these two gave you...rupees. The last thing the game needed.

Finding souls was fun, at least.

 

I didn't think anything was wrong with the second half of the game, except for the statue search, which was pointless, and way worse than the triforce hunt. The triforce hunt led you to unexplored places, and there was plenty to do to find each one. The statue search was just "teleport there" and it was done. Utterly pointless.

 

Anyway, I find it fascinating how much Twilight Princess and Wind Waker are on such different ends of the spectrum. It's like, if you like one, you dislike the other one's equivalent.

[Fused King]

Then let me be the first one to say that I actually liked ALL Zelda games

[Grazza]

Had they spent more time in between dungeons, I'm willing to bet that there would be a great number of gamers complaining that the game was being dragged out.

 

Very true.

 

I actually agree with you about the pacing in the later half of the game. My only problem with the pacing was how the very beginning of the game was dragged out significantly to get gamers used to the Wii controls (the Slingshot was only added when they decided to put the game on the Wii). It now takes hours to get to the first dungeon. Crazy.

 

To be honest, I think the overall "hook" of the game was one of the weakest ideas they've had. Whilst the 2004 trailer - Link running around and riding on Epona - looked awesome, I must admit my heart sank a bit in 2005 when they revealed the wolf mechanic and all this "clearing up the Twilight" stuff. I just wanted a game where Link ran around in a new land, with new enemies and new dungeons.

 

As for Ganondorf, I was surprised to see him, for one very specific reason - Zelda works best when, every generation, you get one "normal" game and one "different" game. That is to say, Ocarina of Time had all the Zelda standards, then Majora's Mask was deeply unconventional. You could say Link to the Past and Link's Awakening had the same relationship, even though they were on different machines. If Wind Waker was the GameCube's "normal" Zelda, with Ganondorf et al, Twilight Princess could have been the "different" one. One thing's for sure, I do want to see Ganon and Hyrule on Nintendo's next machine, to see how they look in HD with some real graphical grunt behind them.