65 Years On

[Ashley]

 

65 years since "Little Boy" was dropped on Hiroshima (and Monday is 65 years since "Fat Man" was dropped over Nagasaki). Given the date is important (in terms of what it signifies historically and the 'roundness' of the years) figured it could make for an interesting topic, especially given recent issues with North Korea and others. But I'll leave the specifics of the discussion open.

 

And on similar lines watched White Light, Black Rain recently, which is a documentary about the bombings. It was informative (saying "it was good" doesn't seem right) and at times harrowing, for obvious reasons, and interviewed survivors of and those who were given the orders to drop the bomb. I'd recommend it.

[The Lillster]

Apparently I've heard that they don't cover this in History lessons in Japan.

 

Does anyone know any more on this subject?

[flameboy]

Apparently I've heard that they don't cover this in History lessons in Japan.

 

Does anyone know any more on this subject?

 

is that really true?

 

but then again my girlfriends canadian and can't understand why we don't get taught about our our colonsation of everywhere.

[flameboy]

is that really true?

 

but then again my girlfriends canadian and can't understand why we don't get taught about our our colonsation of everywhere.

[Nintenchris]

but then again my girlfriends canadian and can't understand why we don't get taught about our our colonsation of everywhere.

 

My wife is Canadian (im originally from England) and we have had that exact conversation more than once.. seems strange that they dont teach us about any of it.

[flameboy]

My wife is Canadian (im originally from England) and we have had that exact conversation more than once.. seems strange that they dont teach us about any of it.

 

wow thats amazing we need to talk? where do you two live now?

[Nintenchris]

Check your PM

[The fish]

My wife is Canadian (im originally from England) and we have had that exact conversation more than once.. seems strange that they dont teach us about any of it.

 

You married and moved to Canada? When did that happen?

 

As for the Nuclear Weapons stuff, I, for one, am fucking thankful that only two have been used, and I was born just as the big threat of NATO vs USSR nuclear warfare was coming to an end.

[Dante]

is that really true?

 

but then again my girlfriends canadian and can't understand why we don't get taught about our our colonsation of everywhere.

 

Yeah and lots of interesting talk about it on another board.

 

you know whats really fucking scary? Im doing a high school exchange in Japan right now and NO ONE at high school even knows.　Its not in the text books or anything. It like theyre just erasing WWII.　

 

For a period, German schools didn't really spend a lot of time on the Nazi activities of WW2. I've met a few guys in uni who basically say it's just not spoken about during historical discussions.

 

War can cause certain subjects to be avoided in teaching. It should be noted that Japan (like all other countries) did terrible things in the war as well, so it's not exactly a proud moment to tell your children. It's not as if American schools don't do the same thing for some of our more unpleasant historical behaviors.

 

- Japan during WWII was like a national cult. The people were brainwashed to do anything at the Emperor's command by the national religion, State Shintoism.

- The military wanted to fight to the death. There was even a coup attempt when the Emperor decided to surrender, AFTER the bombs were dropped.

- The firebombings in Germany crushed what little resistance remained there. The firebombings of Tokyo had little apparent effect on the military's resolve; again, they wanted to fight to the death, to the very last man.

- An invasion of the home islands would likely have been more bloody than battles like Iwo Jima, where Japanese soldiers fought to the death and committed mass suicide when the situation seemed hopeless.

- If the Japanese people all fought to the death, millions would have died during an invasion of the home islands. Countless more would have starved to death or had been killed as collateral damage in house-to-house fighting.

 

This is the context you should be putting your statement in when deciding if the bombs should have been dropped or not. Let me repeat this to you when considering the context: AFTER the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, when the Emperor decided to surrender, the military attempted a coup against him so they could keep fighting to the death. So, do you now think more lives were saved by the bombs, or do you think more lives would have been lost in an invasion?

 

-The first step in Invasion of Mainland Japan was the battle of Okinawa. This is an island 360 miles from the Japanese mainland and the Japanese fought to the death.

 

110,000 Japanese soldiers killed

7,400–10,755 captured

Estimated 42,000–150,000 civilians killed (or about 1/4 of the population of the island)

And Japanese people don't even consider Okinawans to be Japanese.

 

-The Russians enter the war in the days between atomic bombing and proceed to rout Japan out of China, they get as far as taking over North Korea. This combined with the Atomic bomb droppings cause Japan to surrender.

[flameboy]

hmmm yeah dante weird we are taught the most random stuff at school...the prosperity of the tudors and stewards but out of context with regards to the rest of the world...,minus francis drake who we were taught about

[Dante]

hmmm yeah dante weird we are taught the most random stuff at school...the prosperity of the tudors and stewards but out of context with regards to the rest of the world...,minus francis drake who we were taught about

 

Yep the subjects of history is shocking and shameful to alot of countries and at the school that I went to only taught about the tudors, start of WWI, parts of WWII, Romans, 18'th century America and the goods trade triangle.

[Jonnas]

As for the Nuclear Weapons stuff, I, for one, am fucking thankful that only two have been used, and I was born just as the big threat of NATO vs USSR nuclear warfare was coming to an end.

 

Incredibly true. I was born a month before the Fall of the Berlin Wall.

 

And thank God there was never a full blown war. The mere existence of the Cold War managed to ravage smaller/unimportant countries by itself, I don't even want to think what would've happened with WWIII

[Jimbob]

Isn't this the first time that the US is attending?

[Ashley]

A US representative yes, along with Britain and France.

 

And the whole "ignoring the past" in history teaching aspect is very Japanese in essence. Not saying whether or not it is 'right', but is certainly Japanese-ey.

[Jimbob]

I don't get why countries don't wish to teach about their history, even if it is bad. Britain teaches about WW2 and the bombings of London, and you'll find that (to the best of my knowledge now) Germany teaches about the holocaust.

[Pancake]

Fuck the people who invented the atom bomb. Disgusting invention.

[CoolFunkMan]

Someone at my workplace actually said the Americans were "Legends" for doing this. Fucking prick. ¬¬

 

Personally, I think this was a disgusting act, it should have never happened. But then I guess you have to think, what would the world be like now if it had never happened? It's pretty sad really.

[Daft]

Why is it so important that we remember this?

[CoolFunkMan]

Why is it so important that we remember this?

 

Because if we don't, then we can't learn from our mistakes.

[Daft]

That old chestnut?

[Zell]

It is my belief the more people would have died if the atomic bombings never happened. Japan was not surrendering, they were prepared to fight to the death. The Battle of Okinawa resulted in over 100,000 military deaths and about the same number of civilian deaths. Most of the civilian deaths were suicide, on orders from the government. This was just on one small Japanese home island. What would have happened if the Allies were forced to invade Japan proper? Most likely: mass destruction and hundreds of thousands of deaths plus a protracted war in Manchuria/China.

 

It's horrible that it had to come to this, but importantly it abruptly ended the war.

 

Why is it so important that we remember this?

 

People seem to forget even worse atrocities in WWII: the bombings of Tokyo, Dresden, the Siege of Leningrad, the rape of Nanking to name a few.

[Daft]

People seem to forget even worse atrocities in WWII: the bombings of Tokyo, Dresden, the Siege of Leningrad, the rape of Nanking to name a few.

 

Exactly. Your post pleases me.

[mcj metroid]

I thought history is pretty much there in schools to make sure younger generations don't make the same mistakes that people did in the past

 

but most of history then glorifies their nations own battles and what not. I'm sure japan is the same. Teachers don't wanna talk about their major defeat in WWII

[Fierce_LiNk]

I thought history is pretty much there in schools to make sure younger generations don't make the same mistakes that people did in the past

 

but most of history then glorifies their nations own battles and what not. I'm sure japan is the same. Teachers don't wanna talk about their major defeat in WWII

 

Heh, yeah. Much of History teaching here is "yeeeeah, we were awesome in the war!"

 

I wanted to learn more about the holocaust when in school. I still watch documentaries whenever I can on telly, because I think it's important to learn about that stuff. Its really horrifying. I think that would tie in nicely with the first thing you say in your post mcj, about not making the same mistakes again.

 

I agree with Zell's post. So much happened in those few years. Part of the problem is that we're mainly told about things from the British perspective, things that directly affected us. The Battle of Britain, for example. There really is so much information to take in.

[mcj metroid]

YA totally but unfortunately history is probably destined to repeat itself with people becoming more desperate, racist attacks increasing and the likes.

 

Hope nothing mad happens in my lifetime anyway.