Sega Plans For More Games

[Dante]

Wired.com interview

 

Despite disappointing sales of hard-core Wii titles like MadWorld and The Conduit, Sega remains committed to creating mature videogames for the casual console.

 

“You’ll see more games in that genre coming from us,” said Sega President and COO Mike Hayes (pictured) at a Tuesday press event here.

 

Aside from reaffirming the company’s plan to crank out bloody Wii games, Sega demonstrated its lineup of upcoming titles and showed that it was aiming for both hard-core and casual gamers. Sega showed spy-themed RPG Alpha Protocol, sci-fi shooter Alien vs. Predator (based on the popular films) and recently delayed actioner Bayonetta, which will let gamers play a shape-shifting witch.

 

On the casual side, there was the sequel to best-selling Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games; Step & Roll, a new Balance Board-focused Super Monkey Ball title; and exercise game Daisy Fuentes Pilates.

 

Wired.com spoke with Hayes and Sega Vice President of Marketing Sean Ratcliffe about Bayonetta’s delay, the importance of “mommy bloggers,” surviving the economic downturn and creating titles that will appeal to Western gamers.

 

The full Q&A is below.

 

Wired.com: MadWorld was a widely praised title, but sales were disappointing. Why do you think that is? Do you think that “core” games just don’t sell on the Wii?

 

Mike Hayes: It’s difficult because it was a critically acclaimed title; it was extreme but good. The thing that we’re saying is, Sega would be extremely arrogant to have a title that didn’t do as well as we thought on a platform and then say, “Those kind of games don’t sell on that platform.” I think if you take our slew of more mature games — House of the Dead Overkill did really well in Europe, and for some reason even though it’s a big (intellectual property) it did less well in North America. So that’s kind of like a win and a miss that’s kind of come out neutral.

 

MadWorld sales were very disappointing, but was that to do with the platform? Was it that people didn’t like the art style? Or that people didn’t like the way the game played through? It could be many things, which we’re obviously researching.

 

Wired.com: What about The Conduit?

 

Hayes: We actually regard The Conduit as a success. We shipped 300,000 units, sold through half of those and now it’s at the point where it’s selling consistently at a time when Wii sales are generally depressed in the marketplace. So what does that tell you? We still kind of don’t know.

 

What we can say is that we’ll still do mature games for the Wii market because with an install base of some 34 million in Europe and America (maybe half of whom don’t own Xbox 360s and PS3s)…. So even if you took half of those where they’re not into those (core) games, you’ve still got 8 million consumers to go for. So I think the sheer scale of the Wii allows a shooter, or a mature game, to be a niche but a successful niche. And because the development costs can be less on Wii, that means you can sell less to be successful…. We can take more risks on the Wii.

 

Wired.com: So Sega will continue to have a commitment to making hard-core games on the Wii, despite the sales of MadWorld.

 

Hayes: Absolutely. You’ll see more games in that genre coming from us.

 

Wired.com: Bayonetta has been moved to early 2010. There seems to be more and more games delayed to that time period. How do you feel about that for Bayonetta?

 

Sean Ratcliffe: I think there’s quality titles coming down the pipeline anywhere…. There’s always going to be good products around you. It’s just a matter of setting your release date, working with your customers, the retailers and making sure you’ve got everything in place. And we feel confident that Bayonetta’s set in the right point in time. We know it’s a great quality title, no doubt about that, so now we just have to communicate to the consumers about when it’s going to be available on the shelf, and we’ll work with our retail partners to do that. We’re confident we’ll do a good job there.

 

Hayes: What we don’t want to do is move, then say we’re launching on Jan. 29th — that would be crazy. We want to make sure that we stagger that period after Christmas. Hopefully, as publishers, we’ll be smart in the points that we release and don’t create another November in February. But I acknowledge your point’s a very good one.

 

Ratcliffe: We have to take a leap out of the movie industry. They manage their portfolio quite well. The movie companies sort of get together — I don’t know how they do it, I don’t know if they physically sit around the table and divide it up — but somehow they sort of know and communicate with each other when the big titles are coming out. I think they have a feeling. What’s happening in the games industry — right as soon as someone names a date, then people go, “Then we’re going to move around it.”

 

 

Wired.com: Is there anything you’ve learned as the former head of Sega Europe that you’re taking with you over to North America? Are there any strategies that worked over there that you’ll try to apply over here?

 

Hayes: There are detailed process points, but that’s very operational. The road map was always being driven by a collaboration between North America and Europe in so far as, unless it’s a very specific product, like Football Manager Live in Europe, which sells a million units on PC every year, most titles have to be successful in both. So there’s been a consensus approach in any case. I don’t think there’s much done in Europe that we would want to do in North America. In fact, interestingly, now being here, I’m finding things that we do in North America are cool that we should be doing in Europe. How odd is that? I think that’s the whole point: It’s about how as an operation can we be as efficient and collaborative as possible.

 

Wired.com: Can you give an example of one thing you’d like to try in Europe that you’ve liked over here?

 

Hayes: Well, it’s what’s going on here at the moment, the mommy bloggers. What a brilliant idea. I’m sure there are mommy bloggers in Europe. But I’m not aware that we’ve done a press event specifically for them. And with the mass-market nature of videogaming now, and how important moms are — not just in the purchase, but as consumers themselves — what a great idea. So I think that’s something I’d love to see more of in European territories. Just as one example. I think it’s having that view of both that we can share the benefits.

 

Wired.com: Especially since you’ve said a lot of territories in Europe are more family-oriented.

 

Hayes: Yes, I think that’s a great point. In fact, it’s probably more relevant in countries like Spain and actually in Germany. Germany’s probably a territory where this whole mass-market acceptance of videogames has yet to happen because parents are still very concerned about what their children are playing so that would be very good case in point where that would work. See, there’s another idea that came just from thinking out loud. (laughs) Because I was just thinking in the U.K. but actually it’s probably more appropriate for Germany.

 

I think one of the things pertaining to that though, in the reorganization — we have excellent studios in Japan, and it’s very important that they’re making titles that are very relevant for Western territories. There’s Sonic, there’s (Mario and Sonic at The Olympic Games) — that’s done extremely well — and Super Monkey Ball. I think the plan for us to get more of that extremely successful, Western-relevant content from our Japanese studios as well. And that’s something that this reorganization will allow us to do quite successfully.

 

 

Wired.com: How do you think Sega can do that though, specifically?

 

Hayes: On the one hand, you’ve got brilliant Japanese development studios, like our partnership with Platinum Games. Bayonetta is just a very Western-relevant but very Japanese-inspired title, and we’re quite excited about that doing very well. That’s a good case where Japanese excellence is in place.

 

And that will actually do well in Japan as well. And then you look at Sonic and the Sonic teams, and how they created titles which fundamentally only sold in the West and how can we look at what’s been doing well in that genre and try and add to the success that Sonic’s already had. So I guess it’s the teams probably taking more of a detailed look at what works in the West — what makes a good shooter, what makes a good Western RPG, what makes a great children’s platform action-adventure game. And I think it’s by having that focus more on the big market of Europe plus America where I think there will be some more development focus on providing appropriate titles for the market, if that makes sense.

 

Wired.com: How is Sega is dealing with the economic downturn and what’s your strategy moving forward?

 

Hayes: Our general view is that we acknowledge the recession, particularly in its wider field. I don’t think we’re as convinced that the recession is affecting the videogames market as perhaps some of our competitors are stating. I think we’re in a period of videogame life cycles where things are expected, whether they’re price drops, whether we’re waiting for triple-A titles to come out. So to answer your question, we’re only adapting to what the platforms are doing rather than what the economy is doing.

 

We think that by the end of this year, the market will be at least as big as it was last year, so $22 billion marketplace in America, a $22 billion marketplace and change in Europe. It’s interesting — the PlayStation 3 is rumored to be having a price drop. Well, the consumers are so smart, they kind of know that one’s going to be coming so they’re not going to rush out and buy a PlayStation 3 until they know. So that’s going to depress the market slightly. The Wii last year had Wii Fit, Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Mario Kart, and they were just exceptional titles. And then of course, there was Grand Theft Auto. So we’re not comparing apples with apples.

 

We’re acknowledging that the packages market is down. And then you layer on top of that all the digital business that’s going on that’s not being measured in our whole environment, I just don’t see how we can be too down about the market. I think the economic part of that is only altering the shape, not the actual size. I think with holiday sales, (the industry) will bounce back and get us to that point where we’ll see the market was as big as it was last year.

 

No one has a crystal ball, but to answer your question, we’re not taking any actions specifically based on the general state of the economy because we think the issues in videogaming are specific and relevant to videogaming.

 

For example, when we moved Bayonetta, that wasn’t due to the economic situation. It was because it looked like we’d launch in November and in the West, you don’t launch new IP at that busy time of year. So we moved it to what we think will be a quieter period in the new year. And I think that other companies are saying they’re moving titles just because of the economy, and I think their development directors are quite delighted that’s being used as a reason. (laughs)

[Shino]

"And Nintendo allows us to survive by putting Mario in one of our games."

 

But fair play Sega, keep on rocking.

[pedrocasilva]

The industry is so falacious, so they say:

 

Despite disappointing sales of hard-core Wii titles like MadWorld and The Conduit, Sega remains committed to creating mature videogames for the casual console.

 

in the introduction despite sega saying:

 

We actually regard The Conduit as a success. We shipped 300,000 units, sold through half of those and now it’s at the point where it’s selling consistently at a time when Wii sales are generally depressed in the marketplace. So what does that tell you? We still kind of don’t know.

 

In the interview?

 

The Conduit was never a AAA game, regarding funding or market push, and it IS selling. disapointing? only as disapointing as saying Monster Hunter 3 was a flop, I guess. it's perfectly fine if Sega, unlike some idiots, didn't expect 1 million sales or so, coming from a indie developed game they picked up.

 

Madworld was a shame though; but then again, it's the spiritual sucessor to God Hand who also bombed on PS2, so... sad but expected.

[Strange Cookie]

*influencing whisper*

 

C'mon Sega...

 

Daytona USA...

 

You know it makes sense... Even a straight port of the 2001-edition will do nicely...

 

Tam Tadam Tadam Tadam Da Damdaaaaaaammmmmmm!

[LostOverThere]

I'm sure Sega are really happy with the 300,000 units shipped by The Conduit. Anyone have any estimates at what number of units it will end up selling? I really want to say 500,000.

 

But yeah, good interview. Gotta love Sega's attitude towards hardcore gaming on Wii.

[panmusic]

Shenmue 1+2

Skies of Arcadia 2

Jet Set Radio Wii

House of the Dead Overkill 2 with House of the Dead 1 as bonus

Nights remake

 

and I am set!

[Ashley]

The industry is so falacious, so they say:

 

in the introduction despite sega saying:

 

In the interview?

 

The Conduit was never a AAA game, regarding funding or market push, and it IS selling. disapointing? only as disapointing as saying Monster Hunter 3 was a flop, I guess. it's perfectly fine if Sega, unlike some idiots, didn't expect 1 million sales or so, coming from a indie developed game they picked up.

 

Madworld was a shame though; but then again, it's the spiritual sucessor to God Hand who also bombed on PS2, so... sad but expected.

 

Well the person who wrote the article stated The Conduit was a success, and even posed the question that way ("Conduit bombed eh?") but Sega seem to think otherwise. So I'd say its two opinions contradicting each other rather than Sega contradicting themselves.

[pedrocasilva]

Well the person who wrote the article stated The Conduit was a success, and even posed the question that way ("Conduit bombed eh?") but Sega seem to think otherwise. So I'd say its two opinions contradicting each other rather than Sega contradicting themselves.

no, the interviewed, who is a sega employee stated he was content with conduits sales, what the wired interviewer said for a opening despite that was that conduit sold disappointingly and that wii was "the casual console".

 

that's not jornalism, is shoveling their opinion down our throats whether we like it or not; and to make things worse... no matter what developers say up front regarding it or not.

Edited August 13, 2009 by pedrocasilva

[darkjak]

Shenmue 1+2

Skies of Arcadia 2

Jet Set Radio Wii

House of the Dead Overkill 2 with House of the Dead 1 as bonus

Nights remake

 

and I am set!

 

If you add these to the list, I'll freaking kiss them all:

Propeller Arena

Daytona USA

Metropolis Street Racer 2

Outrun

Virtua Fighter

[S.C.G]

Shenmue 1+2

Skies of Arcadia 2

Jet Set Radio Wii

House of the Dead Overkill 2 with House of the Dead 1 as bonus

Nights remake

 

and I am set!

 

Would be nice but...

 

Shenmue 1+2 probably won't happen because 2 was re-released on the Xbox, would only happen if Shenmue 3 came out and was on Wii.

 

Skies of Arcadia 2 I think many have given up hope on this, as fantastic as the original was I'm not sure that it will ever get a sequel after all this time but being that it got re-released on the GC is obviously positive.

 

Jet Set Radio Wii the sequel to the original was released on Xbox but I wouldn't rule out a Wii-make completely.

 

House of the Dead : Overkill 2 very likely, if not in overkill form then at least in some form or another, maybe even a stripped back port of House of the Dead 4? who knows...

 

Nights remake this was re-released on the Japanese PS2 but yeah the Wii deserves a full remake of it or at least another sequel that betters the Wii version; which tbh isn't hard, all they'd need to do is take out the terrible Kid sections, make a much better hub - or do away with it - and just think more of what's left but bigger and with a better control scheme.

 

If you add these to the list, I'll freaking kiss them all:

Propeller Arena

Daytona USA

Metropolis Street Racer 2

Outrun

Virtua Fighter

 

Most of these I don't think would appear, the first two because they seem to have more 'niche' appeal, MSR 2 won't happen because the developers moved onto making the PGR series which is essentially the same thing; Outrun 2 just got re-released on the 360 and Virtua Fighter is the same as its latest incarnation is on 360 / PS3.

 

I don't blame you both for wanting all of these on Wii though, heck I'd love to see most of them appear but in reality I know they probably won't do it sadly for the reasons listed above...

 

Having said that I would love to see either a new Burning Rangers game or even another Panzer Dragoon title - rpg or on-rails - but I know these won't happen probably because BR again is quite niche allbeit with huge potential and Panzer Dragoon had more recent success on the old Xbox, but hey, we can all still dream right?

[Strange Cookie]

Now that you mention it, how about a new of even remake of Panzer Dragoon Saga? Seeing as the original Saturn-version is being sold at prices around €100-€150, it might nog be a bad idea, even if it's a niche game.

 

Panzer Dragoon Orta was actually a pretty good game on Xbox. A PD-game on Wii might steal S&P 2's fire, but there aren't enough games like that anymore. Why, in my days...

 

I've given up hope to ever avenge Ryo's father's death. Curse you, Lan Di! Curse you and that damn helicopter!

[Hero-of-Time]

Having said that I would love to see either a new Burning Rangers game or even another Panzer Dragoon title - rpg or on-rails - but I know these won't happen probably because BR again is quite niche allbeit with huge potential and Panzer Dragoon had more recent success on the old Xbox, but hey, we can all still dream right?

 

Both Panzer Dragoon and Burning Rangers are both excellent choices for sequels/remakes for the Wii. With Wii Motion + these games would be awesome to play.

 

*drools at the prospect*

[darksnowman]

Chu Chu Rocket.

 

Where is the love? Could even happen on Wiiware.

[Hero-of-Time]

Chu Chu Rocket.

 

Where is the love? Could even happen on Wiiware.

 

I've been screaming for that to come out on XBLA for ages, it would be such a hit.

[markderoos]

Chu Chu Rocket indeed!

 

And maybe cooperating with Treasure in bringing Guardian Heroes to the Wii!

[darksnowman]

I've been screaming for that to come out on XBLA for ages, it would be such a hit.

 

But I haven't got a 360. Why would you want to separate me and the mice?

[K-project]

Confused. I remember reading about how Sega were really pleased with the sales of MadWorld. Now they're saying they were disappointing? It could be that it's all a load of crap...

[Retro_Link]

Maybe they were pleased with initial (first month) sales.

But now it's been out for a while, maybe it didn't meet expectations.

[mcj metroid]

I never really understood this care if a game sells well or not anyone..

 

Ok I know that if you like a game you'd like it do well but on the other hand I like niche games that have very little following(compared to the biggys) like metroid...

it's hard to explain what i mean but the reason i hated gta san andreas so much was everything was spoiled for me before i even started the damn game.. too much hype nd secrets spoiled by friends...

 

but anyway.. sega are talking shite here.. madworld is a very niche,artistic style of game.. I think they were hoping the violence and gore would help it sell well... not so much anymore..

conduit can become a great vid.eogame franchise but they have to keep at it and make it more appealing..

 

I hate the blaming of a system... this is all about marketing marketing marketing.

[RedShell]

Shenmue 1+2

Skies of Arcadia 2

Jet Set Radio Wii

House of the Dead Overkill 2 with House of the Dead 1 as bonus

Nights remake

Propeller Arena

Daytona USA

Metropolis Street Racer 2

Outrun

Virtua Fighter

Chu Chu Rocket.

*cough* Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace... Channel 5! *cough*

 

Seriously SEGA, when?

It's the one game out of all of those mentioned (bar JSR perhaps) that makes the most sense for Wii.

[pedrocasilva]

Confused. I remember reading about how Sega were really pleased with the sales of MadWorld. Now they're saying they were disappointing? It could be that it's all a load of crap...

They just said they considered them a success so far; who said it was disapointing were the so called journalists of that site.

Now that you mention it, how about a new of even remake of Panzer Dragoon Saga? Seeing as the original Saturn-version is being sold at prices around €100-€150, it might nog be a bad idea, even if it's a niche game.

Thing about Panzer Dragoon Saga is that Sega actually confessed to having lost it's source code long ago.

 

Whatever they did regarding it... they'd really have to start from ground without any proper reference... They might as well do a new game.

Edited August 13, 2009 by pedrocasilva

[S.C.G]

Thing about Panzer Dragoon Saga is that Sega actually confessed to having lost it's source code long ago.

 

Whatever they did regarding it... they'd really have to start from ground without any proper reference... They might as well do a new game.

 

Wtf? how can a company be so incompetent as to lose their own source code for one of the best - underated - games that they made... aren't they supposed to back important stuff like that up, geez...

[Hero-of-Time]

Here's an interesting interview on Segas plans for future Sonic games. I thought I may aswell slam it in here.

 

As Sega targets 12-and-under gamers as its core Sonic market, company leaders told Kotaku that it has re-thought how to please all Sonic fans.

 

To understand how Sega thinks about its most famous mascot, one must appreciate how differently people responded to 2008's werewolf version of Sonic, the Werehog.

 

That creature, who was playable in the combat sections of last year's Sonic Unleashed, "came in for so much criticism," Sega of America's vice president of market, Sean Ratcliffe recalled for Kotaku during an interview with Sega execs in New York earlier this week. "If you read all those things, and we do — maybe not quite every single one, but the vast majority of them — and it's amazing the sort of diatribes you get. But if you sit down with a group of 8, 9, 10 year-old boys, completely different story."

 

You can't please them all, Sega has learned.

 

"If you read everything, we need to be all things to all gamers with Sonic, and that's a difficult thing to do," said Mike Hayes, the head of Sega Europe and, as of last month, the head of Sega of America as well. "Trying to put everything into one game and making everybody happy is impossible. And I think that's something clear going forward."

 

So as Sega proceeds to, in Hayes' words, "review our Sonic road map," fans young and old should prepare for an approach that will produce Sonic games that won't satisfy everyone at once.

 

Sega's core Sonic target, in fact, isn't those who grew up with Sonic. It's those who are growing up now. "It very much is in that under 12 group," Hayes said. "And what we have to do is make a Sonic that is of a quality that delights that audience, first and foremost. I'd argue that we very much achieved that with products like Sonic Heroes on PS2, and I think we did that with Mario and Sonic 1 on Wii and DS. I think we did it some ways with Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii. I think [the Wii's Sonic and the] Black Knight was a good game."

 

Hayes is less satisfied with Sega's execution of those Sonic games that have been on the more powerful Xbox 360 and PS3 platforms. "I think we've had challenges with [the 2006] Sonic the Hedgehog and Unleashed," he said. "[The 2006 game] Sonic the Hedgehog sells extremely well at a budget price. So clearly it's very popular with a young audience. But first and foremost is: We've got to make a quality game for that audience. Does quality mean it's got to be a Metacritic 90 percent? Well not necessarily. It's just got to be quality that's appropriate for them. Then we've got our core fans, and what we need to do is now and then produce a Sonic that will appeal to those fans specifically. "

 

It's that last group — those core Sonic fans — who seem to be the ones grumbling most on sites like this one about the fate of the franchise. Hayes suggested some ways Sega might produce a Sonic for that community: "Often it can be looking at another take on the nostalgic take on Sonic. Or re-issues. They're very popular. Fans do like that."

 

One suggestion I'd seen from readers was for Sega to take a page from Nintendo's return-to-the-roots release of New Super Mario Bros. a few years ago and create a new Sonic game that played in a side-scrolling format similar to the original games. While not committing to whether Sega would or already is planning anything like that, Hayes used the question as a way to discuss the differences between continuing the Mario and Sonic lines and to discuss a third brand few gamers have likely ever thought of in the same sentence as Sega's Hedgehog.

 

"But in its day, Sonic was the Modern Warfare," Hayes said. It was, in other words, the edgier thing, the game series that was cooler, more grown up, than Mario." Hayes admired that, even when he worked for five years at Nintendo. "Mario was very much the toy brand," he recalled. "Although it was hugely successful, sometimes we looked enviously at Sega with this cutting edge. Now the world has moved on since Sonic achieved that. Sonic can't compete with Modern Warfare 2. It can't. Whereas, Mario I don't think has ever been anything other than appealing to that demographic."

 

The difference, Hayes, explained, is that even as Sonic could no longer be the edgiest thing in console video games, Mario could always target his same cheerful crowd. A New Super Mario Bros. wasn't, in Hayes' mind, as much a return to the series' roots as a continuation of a franchise style that was always relevant to Mario's original kind of audience. "They've had a consistent strategy," he said. "Whereas, with Sonic, I think you have to take it … to a different target audience. Sonic has to go through a metamorphosis as to the type of game you would design."

 

Hayes and the rest of Sega want to make the old-time Sonic fans happy. They just need those fans to not expect their Sonic in every Sonic game. So… the plan? Most of it is not being revealed, yet, of course, but the general strategy is to make core Sonic games pretty much every other year, "character derivative" games between those and, on occasion, off-shoots that involve Sonic doing new physical activities such as playing tennis, skateboarding (as in Sonic Riders), or racing cars, as in the upcoming Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing.

 

The Sega brass hopes their plan will generate something Sonic for everyone. "Trying to appease all those audiences is really hard," Ratcliffe said. "But we are flattered, because we've taken nostalgic fans with us on a journey for almost 20 years and they're still passionate about Sonic."

 

It seems to me that Ratcliffe doesn't really care if a Sonic game reviews well aslong as it sells, saying that the way the industry is who could blame him

[S.C.G]

Are Sega terminally stupid? the answer to what they should be doing is staring them in the face, take Sonic back to two dimensional roots with 3D rendering over the top, simple!

 

Sod their apparent 'new core audience' of 12 year olds, they will learn in time to like Sonic in 2D, if Sega really are planning on ignoring their true fans who grew up with the series then they are more stupid than I thought.

 

Making Sonic into a Werehog for part of Sonic Unleashed was a rubbish idea yet they nailed the Sonic levels almost perfectly, I really don't give a toss if the youth of today thought that Were-Sonic was 'cool' and 'awesome' because in truth it wasn't and it was those parts of the games that were both broken and frustrating and I bet many a 12 year old resorted to smashing their game pads in frustration over it at some point, hardly progress is it?

 

Besides, kids of today are easily pleased with stuff like that, they aren't as discerning or demanding as the true fans of the series are, and on that front I don't blame Sega for wanting to make a quick buck from that oh-so easy to please section of the market but that doesn't make it right damnit!

[pedrocasilva]

Wtf? how can a company be so incompetent as to lose their own source code for one of the best - underated - games that they made... aren't they supposed to back important stuff like that up, geez...

Capcom nearly lost the source code for Okami and that wasn't even a long time ago.

 

Happens often than you'd think, sadly.