mcj metroid Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 there was a backflip in nsmb? also the triple jump was unneeded but it hardly hurt the game either in the first. Giant mario is gone yes? thank god for that how stupid was that powerup? I'm REALLY looking forward to this. I see nothing wrong at all so far.
Emasher Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I suspect most of the music will be taken right from the DS game, the songs I've heard so far in the trailers have all been from it. Anyway, in terms of rating systems I've always thought games should be rated out of 3 with no decimal places. It would make everything way simpler, and stuff like the GT forums going ballistic over Uncharted 2 only getting a 9.3 wouldn't happen. Good games would all get 3, playable games would all get 2, bad games would all get 1. People would actually have to read reviews to find out about the games rather than just getting a number.
Ronnie Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Anyway, in terms of rating systems I've always thought games should be rated out of 3 with no decimal places. It would make everything way simpler, and stuff like the GT forums going ballistic over Uncharted 2 only getting a 9.3 wouldn't happen. Good games would all get 3, playable games would all get 2, bad games would all get 1. People would actually have to read reviews to find out about the games rather than just getting a number. ...no that's just ridiculous.
LostOverThere Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Man, that's great. Coming from someone who initially wasn't really looking forward to this that much, I must say that I'm suddenly quite excited about it. And here I was expecting middle 8's around the board. :P
DuD Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Anyway, in terms of rating systems I've always thought games should be rated out of 3 with no decimal places. It would make everything way simpler, and stuff like the GT forums going ballistic over Uncharted 2 only getting a 9.3 wouldn't happen. Good games would all get 3, playable games would all get 2, bad games would all get 1. People would actually have to read reviews to find out about the games rather than just getting a number. ...no that's just ridiculous. Its not that ridiculous. The idea is to get people to actually read the review and then make an informed judgement on the game from there, rather than just look at the score and decide it's either complete shite or absolutely brilliant simply from seeing a number.
Emasher Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 ...no that's just ridiculous. Similar systems are already used by many sites actually. The problem with reviews today is that too much emphasis is put on scores while there probably isn't that much difference in the quality of a game that got 9.0 and a game that got 9.5. It just comes down to the reviewer's preference. With a 3 star system, this wouldn't be a problem as a 3 star and 2 star game would be quite easy to tell apart. On the subject of the new box art, it really reminds me of the greatest hits PS3 cases.
livebythecoin Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I really hope you can get it in the normal case too, not just red. I think I have OCD when it comes to things like that, My Wii Games all need to match! It was the same with gamecube, wouldn't buy Mario Kart Double Dash with the red case, had to get the black case version! don't even get me started on players choice cases...
Ike Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 It's red! It's too red! Because I'm weak and like Collectors Edition, I ordered the Tin version.
Fused King Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I thought they dropped Red in their Logo's. Is this some kind o' 'IN YOUR FACE!' action?
flameboy Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 The box arts very "un-comtemporary Nintendo" wheres the sterile grey and white? Anyway doubt I will get this as don't have many people round playing games...I will give it a try at the Eurogamers Expo though and perhaps will change my mind.
Ronnie Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Similar systems are already used by many sites actually. The problem with reviews today is that too much emphasis is put on scores while there probably isn't that much difference in the quality of a game that got 9.0 and a game that got 9.5. It just comes down to the reviewer's preference. With a 3 star system, this wouldn't be a problem as a 3 star and 2 star game would be quite easy to tell apart. On the subject of the new box art, it really reminds me of the greatest hits PS3 cases. I hear what you're saying, but 3 possible scores is just stupid. I can maybe understand 5. That's why certain things are given 5 star ratings, but 3 is just far too vague. You wouldn't be able to tell apart the revolutionary masterpieces like Mario 64 or Zelda OOT with the 'great, fun game' like Mario Kart DD. Scores out of 100 are far too particular and specific, but scores out of 3 are the opposite, that wouldn't allow for any basis for comparison. You need something in the middle = in other words what Edge does, marks out of 10. The perfect system in my opinion.
RedShell Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 One thing that is starting to bug me about N's music, which I otherwise adore, is that awful 'ape/donkey being squashed' sample that they seem to plonk into everything now, from Mario Kart to Wii Sports Resort (on the start sceen if you press either A or Z on its own you get this and its equally retarded 'hiccup' twin - WHY??). I think it first appeared in Goron City from Ocarina of Time, which was great, and a perfect fit.. but.. Mario?? Imagine if they'd decided to give it just a little originality and gloss, and got together a small ensemble (an orchestra wouldn't be necessary) and recorded classic ragtimey/latin stuff like SMW etc. It could work brilliantly with just a couple of guitars/banjos, piano, sax/horn, bass + synth, and would fit the cheap, classic model they obvious want to stick to. That donkey being squashed/retarded hiccup is the sound of the cuÃca, it's a fundamental part of Latin (well mainly samba) music and therefore very much a perfect fit for any Mario game in my opinion. It's clearly not everyone's cup of tea, but personally I love it. Nice bit of donkey squashing in this vid starting at 0:17... Samba! I really don't get the complains against the music, I rather like it!Same here, seems uplifting and energetic, just what you'd expect for Mario. The fact they've stuck what sounds like a bit of Mario Paint's stamp maker song in the main theme earns a few bonus points too. Audio I suspect most of the music will be taken right from the DS game, the songs I've heard so far in the trailers have all been from it.Hopefully this'll make it: Audio It's red!It certainly is. But let's face it, there's no way anyone's gonna miss that thing on the store shelves! Anyway, I'm really excited for this game now. I was slightly concerned initially at it being the BIG Nintendo game for Christmas, but it's now clear that a lot has gone into putting this one together and it is definitely a comprehensive 2D Mario game, 4 players or not.
mcj metroid Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Audio Hopefully this'll make it: Audio : The music isn't bad per say. Just not as good as other mario games and especially not as good as the donkey kong country series.
dazzybee Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I think the box art is INCREDIBLE. EASILY my most anticipated game now!! I'm expecting it to be my game of the year
Emasher Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I hear what you're saying, but 3 possible scores is just stupid. I can maybe understand 5. That's why certain things are given 5 star ratings, but 3 is just far too vague. You wouldn't be able to tell apart the revolutionary masterpieces like Mario 64 or Zelda OOT with the 'great, fun game' like Mario Kart DD. Scores out of 100 are far too particular and specific, but scores out of 3 are the opposite, that wouldn't allow for any basis for comparison. You need something in the middle = in other words what Edge does, marks out of 10. The perfect system in my opinion. The point is to keep people from comparing them. Games shouldn't be compared based on one guy thinking it deserves an 8, another a 9, ect. they should be compared based on things that a score alone cannot tell you. A 3 star system would force people to read reviews and decide for themselves, not moan about one game getting a higher score. Even a 5 star system, with no half stars would work better than the current system that most reviewers use, with a number out of 10 accurate to one decimal place. A score is just to give the reader a general impression of how good the game is. Being accurate to one decimal place, or % is going a little too far, and TBH, I think even a 5 star system would be too accurate. 4 stars maybe, having the 4th one reserved for, as you mentioned, games like Zelda and stuff that people who own the console absolutely must buy. If you look on metacritic for a single game, lets say the PS3 version of Fallout 3, the scores range from 100 all the way down to 70. Lets look at Metroid Prime 3, the scores range from 100 to 60! Mario Kart Wii's range was from 100 to 42! Now lets look at something bad. Sonic and the Black Knight got 80 - 20, Deca Sports (A random shovel-ware title) got from 72 - 30. Spogs Racing got from 30 - 10. Some game called Anubis 2 got from 35 to 10. I think you're starting to see a general trend if you're paying attention. The high end games tend to get above 66.67% the middle of the road games tend to be between 66.67% and 33.33%, while the worst games tend to be below 33.33%. Obviously removing outliers, sure, you get the odd game that doesn't get scored below 90 by anyone, or the review scores are otherwise very close together, but most games have a range sort of within one of these thirds of %100. I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone, I'm just trying to explain my logic, if people actually looked at reviews properly we wouldn't even need scores, but its good to summarize it in some way that we can tell in a quick glance how good the game is. a score out of 10 or a percent doesn't really help with this as much because we have to consider for a second what each score means. For the most part it goes something like this: >9.5 GOTY Material Buy it now >9 Unless you really don't like the genre you should buy it >8 Its pretty good if you don't really like the genre you may want to wait until the price drops though, or else rent it, >7 Its not that good, either rent it or buy it really cheap, if you don't really like the genre that much its probably not even worth that. >6 Its not worth your money for sure, so if you play it, you'd better either buy cheap or rent, and don't even bother unless you really really want to play it. <6 Don't buy it, if you see it in a store, stick it behind another game on the shelf to stop misinformed people from buying it, AVGN material. But notice that most of those descriptions, unless you have better ones that is, have a certain amount of uncertainty in the recommendation, it leaves it up to the user to decide what to do, based on personal preference. So why not simplify it to and notice there are also only 6 recommendations, most of them can be simplified slightly. 4 - Amazing, GOTY Material, Buy it. 3 - Its great, unless you really don't like the genre you should probably look into it at least. 2 - Its not that great, rent it, or look for it cheap if you still want to play it. 1 - Stay away, don't even bother renting it, AVGN material. I don't think I can really say much more to explain my logic, though I might have missed a point or two somewhere. Bear in mind that I also was a bit tired when I wrote this.
Ronnie Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 I think it's a little bit egotistical and 'full of yourself' if you think that your suggestion is better than review systems all around the world. There's obviously a reason why no one reviews things with 3 stars, and that's because it wouldn't be pointless and far too vague. I completely understand the point you are trying to make, but there's such a thing as being TOO vague. Sorry it just wouldn't work. If it would, people would be using it. Ratings out of 5 are all well and good, but in such a diverse and saturated field such as video games, extra choice is good and keeps things interesting, as opposed to the dull bore a 3 point rating system would be. Back on topic, I'm excited about this game. Although I wish I was getting more of a 'Super Mario World' vibe, as opposed to a 'New Super Mario Bros (DS)' one. The former being far superior.
Retro_Link Posted October 20, 2009 Author Posted October 20, 2009 Back on topic, I'm excited about this game. Although I wish I was getting more of a 'Super Mario World' vibe, as opposed to a 'New Super Mario Bros (DS)' one. The former being far superior.It would be great to see lots of Super Mario World characters return...
Emasher Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Although, there are a few sites that do use an out of 3 system. Screwattack is the most notable. But whatever. Seeing as super Mario World is by far my favorite Mario game of all time, I'd love to see more characters return from it.
Dante Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 It would be great to see lots of Super Mario World characters return... Some are not in that chart in these new trailers: GT Preview Video
Nintendohnut Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 I'm quite looking forward to this but all my flatmates are pretty rubbish at these kinds of games. I'll be more interested to see whether this has a great single player, and if not I'll probably not bother with it. There isn't much point in buying a 4 player game if only one person will really play it. (Long, explanatory post) I think it's a little bit egotistical and 'full of yourself' if you think that your suggestion is better than review systems all around the world. There's obviously a reason why no one reviews things with 3 stars, and that's because it wouldn't be pointless and far too vague. I completely understand the point you are trying to make, but there's such a thing as being TOO vague. Sorry it just wouldn't work. If it would, people would be using it. Ratings out of 5 are all well and good, but in such a diverse and saturated field such as video games, extra choice is good and keeps things interesting, as opposed to the dull bore a 3 point rating system would be. Back on topic, I'm excited about this game. Although I wish I was getting more of a 'Super Mario World' vibe, as opposed to a 'New Super Mario Bros (DS)' one. The former being far superior. You're both right. Ronnie, you can't say 'being rated out of 100 is too much, I think 10 is the best idea' and then call someone else egotistical for saying another system is better. Surely you just did that yourself? And the argument that 'if the three star system was any good reviewers would actually use it' has also been shown to hold no weight as Emasher showed that people do. My point is that you are both right - there should be less emphasis on scores and more on reviews - but there will never be a system that every reviewer uses to both your ideas, or anything in between, would be preferable. I personally try and read the reviews as much as possible, but I do often find myself just looking at scores to see what a person thought of a game. Which is annoying. So yeah, you're both right but Ronnie you can't suggest an idea then call someone egotistical for doing basically the same thing!
Retro_Link Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) GT Preview VideoSweet!!Some are not in that chart in these new trailers:Yeah but the ones in those trailers are just your standard Mario baddies in nearly every game. I'd like to see a return of baddies that really made SMW unique, like the Chargin Chucks, Blargg and the Dolphins etc... How unexpectedly awesome would it be if some Dino Rhino's ran on to the screen! Edited October 21, 2009 by Retro_Link
Ronnie Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 And the argument that 'if the three star system was any good reviewers would actually use it' has also been shown to hold no weight as Emasher showed that people do. My point is that you are both right - there should be less emphasis on scores and more on reviews - but there will never be a system that every reviewer uses to both your ideas, or anything in between, would be preferable. I personally try and read the reviews as much as possible, but I do often find myself just looking at scores to see what a person thought of a game. Which is annoying. So yeah, you're both right but Ronnie you can't suggest an idea then call someone egotistical for doing basically the same thing! I just found it strange how Emasher claims that his way is best when the vast vast majority don't use it. If it was so good, it would get adopted as mainstream. Not only do people like the anticipation and controversy of finding out review scores, but the wider range takes into account various factors in the games that can raise/lower it's quality. Sound, design, gameplay, longevity. If everything was as simple as 1, 2 or 3, the scores would become meaningless and you'd have whole groups of games put into the same category when they so obviously shouldn't be. If people want to find out about a game, they'll read the review, so the reasoning that /3 scores "gets people to read the actual review" is a paper thin argument at best. The fact that 0.0001% of reviews use Emasher's /3 scoring in my opinion, basically proves that it's a terrible way of reviewing something as wide ranging as computer games. But here we have Emasher claiming his way to be the best way to do things. I wasn't claiming /10 scores to be my idea, so ego has nothing to do with it. I was supporting the large number of sites that use this method.
Nintendohnut Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 The fact that 0.0001% of reviews use Emasher's /3 scoring in my opinion, basically proves that it's a terrible way of reviewing something as wide ranging as computer games. But here we have Emasher claiming his way to be the best way to do things. I wasn't claiming /10 scores to be my idea, so ego has nothing to do with it. I was supporting the large number of sites that use this method. Right, your point I understand, and I see that you disagree with the /3 scores (which is fine) but you're saying two things 1) Emasher is egotistical because he is saying that the /3 idea is the best and he made it up 2) You are not egotistical, you are simply saying that you think the /10 score, which is used by several websites is the best idea This would be fine except that Emasher didn't make up these /3 scores, as he has shown some websites use them. Basically you both have seen different websites which use different scores, and you both think they're best for different reasons. That's fine! You just need to.. well, not call people names really, when they just disagree with you. I hope you see what I mean, you've both done the exact same thing but just with a different scoring system. I agree with you both that /100 is too much, I just disagree with people calling names (it's a little immature) when someone disagrees with them. But seriously now, let's just forget it and get back on topic, this is a discussion for another thread!
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