Zelda Wii: Does it need to change?

[Edjamakated]

Yes. Yes it does. /end thread

 

So where to start? How about at the core. For every Zelda game that came out after LTTP, the same formula has been applied. Link must travel to many different dungeons (water, fire, etc), gain an item, then use that item throughout the level and then eventually kill the boss with said item. It is because of this redundancy that Zelda hasn't felt fresh in a long time. The games themselves are beautifully crafted, but there are hardly any surprises. What I propose is that Zelda stray away from the "collect 8 pieces of the artifact" to something more sincere, something more worthy, something more random.

 

It is because we know the formula so well that it doesn't matter how interesting these new dungeons are, they all feel the same. It feels like a different version of the same game. Lately, Zelda games have put more and more emphasis on side quests, quests between the quest. IMO, this is where the adventure portion of the game comes in. This is where random comes in. And generally, all the quests have been great. This is the reason why MM is my favorite Zelda. But still, sooner or later, no matter how much you delay, you still have to go to a dungeon in order to progress through the game.

 

Now I applaud Miyamoto for his courage. He knows that Zelda has become too redundant and that's why he said TP will be the last of its kind. And I really think he's thinking what I'm thinking (well maybe not exactly). He's thinking that adventure isn't ordained. You don't tell someone where to go and what to do and call it an adventure. That's similar to telling someone to go to the store and buy some juice. That's an errand. An adventure is the unknown. An adventure is possibilities. And in order for Zelda to have the unknown, it needs to be changed from the ground up.

 

Now imagine starting the game and finding yourself abandoned out in the middle of the woods. It's dark and your hurt, but what is that? You hear something and it sounds like singing. As you draw nearer, the singing gets louder. Louder and louder still, until you see it. It's a cave; a Great Fairy spring in all it's glory. You have no items, no sense of direction, and no memory to speak of; she gladly takes pity on you and heals your wounds. But her kindness comes with a price. She entrusts you with something, something very precious. A creature; it looks like a mole but it's so tiny and furry, and it looks like it's hurt. But wait, what is this? It's faintly glowing, but it seems to be getting weaker. The Fairy tells you that she cannot heal this creature here, and that you must take it to whence it came. Conveniently, she has no idea where it came from, but knows that it cannot be allowed to die. So you are turned away, helpless. You exit the cave, riddled with questions. Then BAM! Goblins and there's a lot of them. You don't have anything to defend yourself with and they're getting closer! Closer and closer they come with their incessant laughter and disgusting slobber. Backed up against the wall, it looks like your done for. But just as they are about to come down on you, the creature sneezes and the land around you suddenly pops out into a hill, sending those goons flying. Then you realize....WTF is this thing? It sneezes once more and a path is formed. It's trying to lead you somewhere. So you follow.

 

You find that the path leads to a mountain. It's treacherous, but you still manage to follow the path and climb its summit. There you notice the creature is looking a lot brighter and healthier. It sneezes again and creates a giant hole deep into the mountain. You fall for what seems like forever. And screaming your longs out, you finally black out. When you come to, you see the creature running around joyfully. This is the creature's home and you brought him back safely. It notices you are awake and scurries over. What? What's it saying? It looks like it wants to reward you. It starts doing this hilarious little dance; back and forth and back and forth. You don't understand it until you see it turn into pure light. Like electricity, a bolt of energy strikes you and starts pouring power into you, but somethings wrong. There is so much pain. With light coming out of your eyes, ears and mouth, you scream in agony. And then, it's over. On all fours, you catch your breath and even spew out a mouthful of blood. You look around for the creature and find him lying on his side, with his glow slowly pulsating fainter and fainter until nothing.

 

The mountain starts to crumble all around you. Your going to die unless you figure something out. But the only way out is the way you came in. That's when the game prompts you to stand where the light shines in and tells you how to use your new found power. So you execute the move and a hill forms up under you launching you higher and higher. Your not going to make it. The hole is getting smaller and smaller. Your never going to make. That's when the game prompts you to use another one of your abilities and force the hole open. In a tremendous blast, the top of the mountain is turned into specks of dust. You've set yourself free but only to land in comical fashion right on your face and pass out.

 

You wake up to a beautiful girl tending to your needs. Shes was worried you'd never awaken. She tells you her name and asks yours (game prompt).....

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm sorry that was so long, but I felt it necessary (and kinda fun). But you can see the setup of this game and how it can be much different than in the past. There could be many of those special creatures with many different powers. They could be huge beasts while others tiny little bugs. There doesn't have to be a predetermined limit. But best of all, they don't have to be locked away in some Temple either. Also, the powers they grant you can make for some interesting puzzles.

 

The way you find these creatures could be by listening to crazy town folk talk about "legends" and taking the hints and setting out to look for them. And you can even be given a choice, to capture them by using their weakness and doing them harm, or by helping them.

 

These creatures can also have personalities themselves. For instance, you find a giant dragon perched atop a cliff. She warns you that she has done away with the others that tried to capture her, and if you don't leave now, she will kill you. You end up fighting her but during the struggle she runs the risk of dieing, so you save her life. In gratitude, she grants you the power to tame her young (giving you the ability to fly!).

 

The story could allow for many unique possibilities. Such as Ganondorf is searching high and low for these creatures (the one you helped barely escaped his grasp) and he will stop at nothing to find them; not after he knows their true power. The more he captures and the more powerful he becomes, but something noticeable starts to happen. The world becomes more dull, the animals more angry and the sky more dark. But the same thing happens as you find creatures and use there power. Your a detriment to the world, just like Ganon. The further you advance, the more you step on each others toes. And as you both obtain more and more power, the laws of the world finally become unhinged when you face each other; providing an epic setting for a climax.

 

That is just a simple idea. The point I am trying to make is that Zelda will receive a great push in the right direction with the Wiimote and Motion+, but to truly feel completely new, it'll need to shed its now archaic structure and employ something more flexible, something more random. The problem with Temples and Dungeons is that you know where they are and you know generally the challenges you face. With a system similar to mine, you have no idea where to go and have no idea what you will face; and that is what exploration is all about. The unknown.

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited June 1, 2009 by Edjamakated

[david.dakota]

i think rather than a radical change, we just need to see a living, breathing Hyrule. Its always seems empty, hardly worth saving really.

[Nicktendo]

Thank you Edjamakated! That made fascinating reading. I agree completely with all of your sentiments that the new Zelda needs to shed it's structure of old, maybe even go back to the NES Zelda style of dumping you in a vast world with no set goals.

 

I feel that the main thing Nintendo need to do is bring Hyrule to life, similar to Animal Crossing, each NPC has its own life to follow and shares it's stories with you based on how hit has acted, couple this with the emotion and depth of the interaction see in Majora's Mask and Nintendo are on to a winner. I feel it's important to capitalise on the Immersion this time. Hopefully the game will use WM+ which will add to the physical immersion felt by the player but Nintendo can do alot to evoke mental immersion by creating a gaming world that is fresh, unique and original. Nintendo have done a good job this generation in bringing the game into the room. Wii sports was only the beginning and now Nintendo need to push these basic ideas and formulas forward and enhance the gamers connection with the software.

 

I for one am looking forward to E3, mainly because of the Zelda possibilities. I'm a massive fan of the all the home console installments and while OOT, MM and Wind Waker felt fresh, it is true that there was something stagnant about Twilight Princess, a great Zelda game, but little to stray from the formula. That's what made the others so great, even Wind Waker offered something so new and refreshing and is by far the most beautiful game of all time. The ball is in your court Nintendo, please deliver like no other developer can. /Fanboy mode

[Ganepark32]

I think there's still room for Zelda as it is now. Yes, the formula is a bit stale but if you really think about it, there are no other action adventure titles that have really captured the essence of what Zelda is about.

 

One thing I would like Nintendo to do though is take some hints from the likes of Bioware and their titles. I don't mean that they should turn Zelda into an RPG. Far from it as how it is is how it works the best. What I mean is they should take the social aspect of the likes of Mass Effect or KotOR and bring something similar to Zelda so that each NPC has its own story, its own life and its own problems and these change as you progress through the game as you make your decisions as the main character. I think this would help bring Zelda to life and also build up the immersion factor, making the gamer feel that he or she was actually having an effect on the in game world.

[ShadowV7]

Make the environment as alive as Majora's Mask and i'll be happy. Each NPC was interactive and different each day, had their own stories to resolve and they had the sense of 'doom' since they could see the moon falling above Clock Town. Great atmosphere, be awesome.

[Edjamakated]

EDIT:

 

I agree.

[Pookiablo]

Make the environment as alive as Majora's Mask and i'll be happy. Each NPC was interactive and different each day, had their own stories to resolve and they had the sense of 'doom' since they could see the moon falling above Clock Town. Great atmosphere, be awesome.

 

100% agree there my friend.

[Retro_Link]

I'm not crazy, you've posteed that before right?

 

Yeah Hyrule needs to be alive, with people, changing weather, seasons connected up to the weather channel.

 

And places/small populations to discover, tucked out the way, and places only accessible at different times of the year.

Such as replay the game on a snowy day and you find a snow drift leading up to a chest.

Adventure, discovery and survival.

[Edjamakated]

Naw, I haven't posted it here. Do you frequent NintendoWorldReport.com?

[Retro_Link]

Nope... ok mission ON...

 

EDIT: Ta Daa!

 

http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23546&highlight=zelda

Edited June 1, 2009 by Retro_Link

[Edjamakated]

Oh snap...I didn't recognize the title. Well, I'm sorry. It was bumped up at another site and I figured I let you guys join the discussion.

[LazyBoy]

The adventure definitely needs to come back, as does the danger. Maps shouldn't be bought they should be written. Getting to the dungeon should take twice as long as doing the dungeon itself. If you're hurt you shouldn't be able to quickly zap back to the nearest down and heal. You should have to camp, and you heal depending on how well you complete a series of mini games, like hunting for food, starting a fire and setting a tent (all of which could be improved by buying or winning through side-quests new mini-games). You should be able to get lost, and if you are then walk to the top of the nearest mountain or climb the nearest tree, find the nearest river and follow it. Increase the danger and unknown of the outside world and suddenly the far apart towns become havens. You want to talk to every person and do every side-quest before you have to set out into the unsafe again. But once you've explored routes and mapped them you can sell them and roads can be created, making the route easier and rewarding your adventure, but only for towns rich enough to build roads.

[Edjamakated]

That shouldn't be Zelda, but that should be something.

[Retro_Link]

No, I think Zelda should be more towards that sort of quest/adventuring.

[Edjamakated]

Ya, but that idea could really work on it's own. There wouldn't be a need for Ganon.

[Coolness Bears]

Nope... ok mission ON...

 

EDIT: Ta Daa!

 

http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23546&highlight=zelda

 

That's what I was thinking! As I was sure I'd posted in this.

 

and I did!

 

This is what I want again:

 

Yeah but the red tunic made Link look badass. :p

 

I want the next Zelda to stray slightly from it's dungeon premise and make the open fields and other areas much more exciting again. I say the Dungeons in TP and in any Zelda game Nintendo pretty much nail it each time. The only reason these may have been a little bit boring or easy is because it has followed the same formula for years.

In TP what first grabbed me about the game when I switched it on was again entering the Hyrule fields for the first time. I thought to myself OH THE POSSIBILTIES. Unfortunately what I was met with was something a bit bland and lifeless and after the intial excitement of riding Epona again I realised this new world was rather empty.

 

I feel NPC's should not be restricted to towns and villages. Remember in TP when you had to guide that person with her Kart across the field protecting her as she went along?

 

That was fun but in the new Zelda rather as a set piece that should be standard gameplay. I think it would be great if you are just walking along hyrule when you suddenly notice that the postman is being attacked by Moblins and you can rush over and save him, then take him back on Epona to where he needs to go and he then gives you an item or something.

 

Let me try and explain what I mean:

 

You start off in the village. The chief of the village runs into your house sayingthat his herd of Ice Dogs have gone missing or whatever. you don't have to complete this there is an option but if you choose not to it affects what happens later on. After you do or Don't decided to do that it is off to the first dungeon.

 

Say in the first dungeon you get the item you need straight away and then from there on in there are elaborate puzzles to complete to advance to the Boss. So this first bit gets you back into classic Zelda but with a slight twist, so as to not to alienate the fans and to keep things a bit fresh.

 

Your next task could be travel up to the top of an Icy mountain. Now if you chose help retrieve the ICe Dogs this part is now much simplier and quicker you can ride one to thetop of the mountain but if you didn't then it is much harder to traverse up. It will take longer and you'll have to implement more puzzles to get across the broken ground or something. Where as if you did the Ice dog sidequest you could just run right up. (which you get from the village)

 

Once you get to the top you find that a BOSS (a blue dragon or something) is waiting for you and you have to fight it using the weapon you have just gained from the last Dungeon.

 

I like these ideas as it makes use of the weapon you have already gained (unlike in TP) it makes use of a sidequest you did or didn't do and whatever you chose has a different outcome making it more of your own adventure. So instead of a sidequest having an immediate effect it could be something that helps or hinders you later. Such as perhaps you failed the quest. So you chose to get the Ice Dogs back but failed to.

 

And then also instead of having all this grained terrain going to waste. It is also placing more puzzles into them and also a Boss at the top outside of a dungeon which never happens, you never get some giant enemy just wandering around. Which should happen, this would make it more exciting.

 

okay once you defeat the enemy he crashes down into the centre of the mountain revealing a dungeon. from their on in you have to work your way spiralling down into a dungeon. At the end of this one you finish off the Boss from before.

 

Hopefully you understand slightly what I'm saying. I feel the next Zelda should incorparate Sidequests, Dungeons, Areas and Villages moer seamlessly insteadof keeping each seperate which makes the game feel like a fetch quest.

 

Also difficulty settings. Say on hard mode the enemies take more damage and you deal out less. That would be a challenge. Or some Bosses should be timed. Finally more interaction with the NPC's giving them some personality.

[Retro_Link]

Ya, but that idea could really work on it's own. There wouldn't be a need for Ganon.

True.

 

Just throwing it out there, but is there a need for Ganon/dorf anymore, is that part of the problem.

 

Yes Zelda is built around the 3 pieces of the triforce, and each character has their piece, but maybe it's time that piece left/was taken from Ganondorf, by a new more powerful foe.

 

It's a bold move, but nothing to say Ganondorf couldn't then fight to get his piece back in the future.

 

"The Return of Ganondorf"

Edited June 1, 2009 by Retro_Link

[LazyBoy]

Why not? Miyamoto's original inspiration was his days as a boy exploring caves, the adventure. I mean I loved twilight princess, but there wasn't much adventure. When you're sent to find those stones or whatever so you can go to sky town (its been a while) it felt less like an adventure and more like I was walking around my back yard. How much better would that have been if you're walking through the forest in ES4:Oblivion guided by to the stones by the sword from shadow of the colossus?

 

Edit: I don't think there's a need to remove Ganon. There's really no need to put so much emphasis on him either. The main problem i've seen in the series is this increasing emphasis on Link as the main character in the game. And he's not, the world itself is. TP was very centered around Link, but OoT was about the greater world, MM was about the people in that world. The world needs to be alive, dynamic, reactionary, with people who make up that world.

Edited June 1, 2009 by LazyBoy

[Retro_Link]

And he's not, the world itself is. TP was very centered around Link, but OoT was about the greater world, MM was about the people in that world. The world needs to be alive, dynamic, reactionary, with people who make up that world.

Oh yeah I completely agree.

 

But I also think the whole Ganondorf to Ganon thing is getting a bit old!

[LazyBoy]

Meh, ganondorf is just a villain, a personification of evil. The problem is the perception of his power. By TP is was like, 'oh Ganondorf' again'. You fight him once (I think) and beat him. OoT had scenes with his power, and WW had that great bit where you're rescued from him only with the help of a f**king dragon. WW's Ganon was probably my favourtie, a lot of character, interesting minions, meaningful but not-overdoing it with the motive. I think they need to take his character one step further, make him bat-sh*t insane after being imprisoned for so long, or make him cold and uncaring, not just maniacly laughing bad guy. Plus more sub-minions. Give him a council, (an espada if you will). When you're getting your ass kicked by the guys who work for him you know you got a job ahead of you. Give in a force, an army, and grow it. I felt I had already won half way through with TP. Show the results of his work more as well. MM had the effects of the Skull Kids madness hanging above you during the entire game. OoT had Hyrule town as a nightmare version of its previous self. Again I didn't really see that in TP or WW.

[EEVILMURRAY]

But the only way out is the way you came in. That's when the game prompts you to stand where the light shines in and tells you how to use your new found power. So you execute the move and a hill forms up under you launching you higher and higher.

Link Sneezes...

 

 

 

[Goron_3]

The first twilight princess trailer pretty much NAILED how I want a Zelda game to be. It looked just brilliant and full of character. Shame the game lacked that.

 

I honestly think they need to go down the MM route with this one, as in thinking outside the box.

 

Also, i want to see MUCH more of ganondorf. Maybe show how he rises to the top and dethrones the King of Hyrule (like how in OoT he was already a friend of the King before he turned on them). Maybe even getting to play as him at point would be great.

[tapedeck]

One word which will cause a mass-debation splurge:

 

Steampunk.

 

*Hides*

 

Tbh, I'd like a SMALLER Hyrule. There! I said it! Smaller as in community. Have vast areas sure, but have them deserted, dead, in ruin. Have the villages vibrantly alive with little pockets of races living in fear of the outside world (this was done well in OoT).

 

This is a huge thing in Zelda for me. How races are singled out and there is usually one member missing (Zora, Goron etc...) and then it's up to you to reunite the race and it makes a difference.

 

I'm pretty sure this was missing in TP and I don't think many realise the emotional impact it has on the flow of Zelda.

 

Just my thoughts...

Edited June 1, 2009 by tapedeck

[Grazza]

I'm not scared of change, but let's look at three of the games that had the biggest impact - Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker. My point of view is that the reason they were so good is because they used the extra processing power available from their host console to improve on the last. They were all innovative, but they still used the Zelda formula.

 

Even Majora's Mask is not actually that radical. It's just an artistic vision done brilliantly. This is what's needed from Zelda games every time.

 

I'd like Zelda Wii to be based on three games:

 

Wind Waker

Shadow of the Colossus

Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King

 

Wind Waker because, in my opinion, it's the most advanced Zelda, both technically and artistically.

 

Shadow of the Colossus for its seamless overworld. There is not a single loading time apart from real-time cutscenes to introduce each colossus. It's almost like meditation as you search the vast overworld. The thought that it can hide such huge creatures is inspiring.

 

Dragon Quest VIII for its technicality, overworld and general tone. It's probably the best-ever game for feeling both "adult" and cartoony. It's also convinced me that orchestral music and good voice acting are the way to go (not for Link, obviously). The actor who plays Angelo brings a completely believable neutrality to the proceedings. It's only when you get unbelievable, strong accents that takes you out of your immersion.

 

All three games have a huge overworld, with WW and SotC both quite barren. In my opinion, this is not something to be afraid of. Like I say, it's almost like meditation to be out in the open, far from towns and villages.

 

The game also needs to feel right. To me, Twilight Princess didn't feel right to control. I'd like to feel I have full control over my sword and shield, being able to get them out and control them separately.

 

Also, I'd like a much closer view to Link. Twilight Princess frequently zoomed me up and away from the action. A near over-the-shoulder viewpoint would be ideal, and really, why not be able to swap between, 3rd-person, 1st-person (whilst moving and fighting, not just stationary) and over-the-shoulder whenever you like? These are modern times!

 

It also needs to feel right as you run around the overworld. I'd love it if they could get rid of loading times, and I'd love the overworld to link up seamlessly. One bit of Twilight Princess that greatly inspired me was the underground caverns between Lake Hylia and Zora's Domain. But you could only go through these at the game's pace, and thus it didn't feel "real". I'd love it if you could walk past the rapids (like in Link's Awakening), but on an underground path that links up realistically with the world above at various points.

 

Eiji Aonuma is a fantastic designer who knows he can learn from other games. If he is left to carry out his artistic visions, I am confident of future greatness.

[Nicktendo]

Steampunk.

 

This.

 

Followed by Miyamoto experiencing my cum face first hand.