Sin & Punishment: Successor Of The Skies

[Dante]

- Sin & Punishment 2 (8/8/8/7, 31 points): The new Treasure game received a fair bit of excitement from Famitsu's editors, despite the usual Treasure-like challenge. "The game's remarkably compatible with the Wii remote," one wrote. "Aiming takes a while to get used to, but I couldn't imagine playing any other way by now." Criticisms included the long length of some stages, although "there are a lot of checkpoints, so replaying isn't that much of a pain."

[Dante]

First ten mins footage.

 

Fisrt day sales:

[PS3] Bayonetta (Sega) - 93k

[360] Bayonetta (Sega) - 45k

[PS3] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 79k

[360] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 22k

[NDS] Hikaru no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden (Square Enix) - 85k

[WII] Super Robot Taisen Neo (Bandai Namco Games) - 27k

[WII] Sin and Punishment 2 (Nintendo) - 5.6k

[NDS] Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars (CyberFront) - 5.1k

[NDS] Umihara Kawase Shun: Second Edition Kanzenhan (Genterprise) - 4.2k

[PSP] Elminage II: Sousei no Megami to Unmei no Daichi (Starfish SD) - 5.1k

[PSP] Kenka Banchou Portable (Spike) - 2.2k

[Zechs Merquise]

First ten mins footage.

 

Fisrt day sales:

[PS3] Bayonetta (Sega) - 93k

[360] Bayonetta (Sega) - 45k

[PS3] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 79k

[360] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 22k

[NDS] Hikaru no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden (Square Enix) - 85k

[WII] Super Robot Taisen Neo (Bandai Namco Games) - 27k

[WII] Sin and Punishment 2 (Nintendo) - 5.6k

[NDS] Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars (CyberFront) - 5.1k

[NDS] Umihara Kawase Shun: Second Edition Kanzenhan (Genterprise) - 4.2k

[PSP] Elminage II: Sousei no Megami to Unmei no Daichi (Starfish SD) - 5.1k

[PSP] Kenka Banchou Portable (Spike) - 2.2k

 

Very disappointing.

[markderoos]

one word: PROMOTION

 

Compare the promotion/buzz that Sin and Punishment 2 is getting with Bayonetta/Tekken 6. How many people (outside of this board) do you know who are aware of Bayonetta/Tekken/Fifa2010/MW2? And how many know about Muramasa/SaP2?

 

Even compare how many people are aware of Wii Fit+/Mario&Sonic Winter Olympics compared to Sin and Punishment?

 

It's all about promotion: billboards, tv adds, radio...

 

*sighs at Nintendo*

[Zechs Merquise]

one word: PROMOTION

 

Compare the promotion/buzz that Sin and Punishment 2 is getting with Bayonetta/Tekken 6. How many people (outside of this board) do you know who are aware of Bayonetta/Tekken/Fifa2010/MW2? And how many know about Muramasa/SaP2?

 

Even compare how many people are aware of Wii Fit+/Mario&Sonic Winter Olympics compared to Sin and Punishment?

 

It's all about promotion: billboards, tv adds, radio...

 

*sighs at Nintendo*

 

You are correct Bayonetta has had a massive push in Japan. Buge billboards and a TV campaign I believe. This has just slipped out under the radar. Destined to be a cult classic. Sad.

[darksnowman]

How many people (outside of this board) do you know who are aware of Bayonetta/Tekken/Fifa2010/MW2? And how many know about Muramasa/SaP2?

 

I see your point: those casual games are well known by the public but the core titles such as Muramasa and Sin & Punishment are followed by hardcore gaming fans. :wink:

 

 

 

[dazzybee]

I see your point: those casual games are well known by the public but the core titles such as Muramasa and Sin & Punishment are followed by hardcore gaming fans. :wink:

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness though, this is what pisses me of about "core" gamers and also those who frequent the OTHER CONSOLES board The games they say are for the core gamers are the games EVERYONE knows about. It's like these people only see the games that get attention, and for the most part, on the Wii, it is the main Nintendo ones and casual crap. But there are so many hidden gems on the Wii that people simply don't know about. Including these 2!!

 

Core gamers my arse!! They're like the people who go to the cinema and watch Transformers 2, Terminator 4, Couples retreat, Saw 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. Wii fans are like the film nerds who watch stuff like Waltz with Bashir, JCVD, Let the right one in etc.

 

The above is only a semi joke

[Ganepark32]

Sin & Punishment and Muramasa aren't core titles. Their niche titles that will apply to a smaller/minimal section of the consumer market. A core title is one that will appeal to the wider audience of general gamers, while casual refers to a title that will largely appeal to those new to the game and requires little to no prior experience to use them.

 

You can't label Wii owners as idiots for not buying what you've deemed 'core titles' (although really the mentality has been, so far, that they'll say one thing and do the other, i.e. "the game looks great. Something I'm looking forward to trying" and then not buying it) because they're not. The likes of Fifa and Guitar Hero are still regularly purchased titles on the Wii and these are the core titles that are getting bought. This particular game is niche and is likely to sell poorly for several reasons, the foremost being Nintendo's inability to market anything other than their current line of casual games. This is a big game to us because we've played the original and we know what to expect but to many other Wii owners, they won't know what this is about and many of them won't follow games like we do. As a result, Nintendo will pull an EA and advertise online because they'll state that that is where all the gamers are that will buy it but look what happened to Dead Space Extraction, which is utterly criminal given how fantastic that game is.

 

Blame for poor sales also falls to the stores because they'll get their most profit from the sales of sequels because they know that many people who play games simply want more of the same. It's the reason Fifa sells well, and it's the reason that Modern Warfare 2 will hammer the competition in terms of sales in the coming weeks. If Nintendo wants their more 'core' games noticed, they need to work with the stores to get them advertised otherwise it'll be a case of having to rake through the leagues of crap in the Wii shelves to find this when the time comes.

[Retro_Link]

Core gamers my arse!! They're like the people who go to the cinema and watch Transformers 2, Terminator 4, Couples retreat, Saw 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. Wii fans are like the film nerds who watch stuff like Waltz with Bashir, JCVD, Let the right one in etc.

 

The above is only a semi joke

That's bull! I'd take Transformers anyday!

[Hero-of-Time]

That's bull! I'd take Transformers anyday!

 

Agreed. TF2 was one of my favourite films this year, whereas the critically acclaimed District 9 is of the worst films ive ever seen. All 5 of us were close to walking out as we were bored as hell. Can I still be a Wii owner?

[Helmsly]

[daftada]

Is it just me or does the character in the second video sound just like Link?

[khilafah]

First ten mins footage.

 

Fisrt day sales:

[PS3] Bayonetta (Sega) - 93k

[360] Bayonetta (Sega) - 45k

[PS3] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 79k

[360] Tekken 6 (Bandai Namco Games) - 22k

[NDS] Hikaru no 4 Senshi: Final Fantasy Gaiden (Square Enix) - 85k

[WII] Super Robot Taisen Neo (Bandai Namco Games) - 27k

[WII] Sin and Punishment 2 (Nintendo) - 5.6k

[NDS] Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars (CyberFront) - 5.1k

[NDS] Umihara Kawase Shun: Second Edition Kanzenhan (Genterprise) - 4.2k

[PSP] Elminage II: Sousei no Megami to Unmei no Daichi (Starfish SD) - 5.1k

[PSP] Kenka Banchou Portable (Spike) - 2.2k

 

big shame. Honestly if this was a 360 release in Japan I think it wouldnt do any worse than this. That is not me saying it should be on 360, just making a point that even with the lower userbase the 360 hardcore shooter crowd would of bought this.

 

Think my bro will probably wait for a bit before he imports as this is gonna get a price drop in japan in december/january no doubt.

[Lens of Truth]

Wii fans are like the film nerds who watch stuff like Waltz with Bashir, JCVD, Let the right one in etc.

That's bull! I'd take Transformers anyday!

Agreed. TF2 was one of my favourite films this year, whereas the critically acclaimed District 9 is of the worst films ive ever seen.

 

I'm with Dazzybee on this one, but I'm pretty sure this is not true for most Wii owners/gamers in general. Let The Right One In in particular is the most poetic, subtle film I've seen at the cinema in a looooong time.

 

Transformers is just trash, there's no way around that. Agreed though that District 9 is a stinking pile

 

One of the odd things about 'taste' is that it doesn't usually cohere from one medium to another. People's expectations of a movie are very different to what they want from games, books, music, painting etc. It's fairly commonplace that someone who is a connoisseur of one will have a total blind spot to another, and simply follow mass trends. I'm not suggesting that there is a 'right' or 'wrong' here, simply that there isn't a match.

[James McGeachie]

big shame. Honestly if this was a 360 release in Japan I think it wouldnt do any worse than this. That is not me saying it should be on 360, just making a point that even with the lower userbase the 360 hardcore shooter crowd would of bought this.

 

The Wii undeniably has a small hardcore audience in Japan especially, probably more so than anywhere else. The same actually goes for the DS even I think, on both systems most "core" titles other than stuff by Nintendo sell like shit. There's only very rare exceptions, the only time a core title is guaranteed to sell well on a Nintendo system in Japan is if it's a HUGE franchise.

 

Look at Chinatown Wars' sales too. The main GTA instalments have actually sold pretty well in Japan, though they've usually been released far later than in the west.

Edited November 1, 2009 by James McGeachie

[D_prOdigy]

Bear in mind that the reason a sequel was green-lit was down to the fact the re-release of the original in non-Japanese regions went down so well. I imagine this has a much better shot in the US more than anywhere else.

 

J McG also hit the nail on the head - the Japanese market has been really weird for the past three years. That and the fact Nintendo didn't conjure up any fanfare of any kind for this (and they probably won't in the west, for that matter).

 

But personally, I care not for sales.

[tissuetown]

 

Core gamers my arse!! They're like the people who go to the cinema and watch Transformers 2, Terminator 4, Couples retreat, Saw 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 etc. Wii fans are like the film nerds who watch stuff like Waltz with Bashir, JCVD, Let the right one in etc.

 

 

 

This is a slippery slope, and largely a ridiculous thing to say. What you're saying, even if you are "semi" joking, is that Wii fans have very contemporary tastes compared to "core" gamers.

Again, comparing the film medium to the games medium is ridiculous unto itself, so let's push that aside.

This game has very few people interested for the following reasons:

-It is one of the "big" games that Wii fans get excited about, and this will follow it to the ends of the earth.

-There are hardly any Wii fans, compared to the large percentage of wii owning casuals.

-Unless you visit message boards, or have very good knowledge of the first game, you will not know about this game and might not even care.

-It's name does not excite anyone outside of that demographic.

 

Do these things make it comparable to contemporary "cinematic classics"?

No.

Edited November 1, 2009 by tissuetown

[Lens of Truth]

There was a time, dear friends, when games like Sin and Punishment 2 were released and achieved moderate success, sometimes gaining a small following of fans... And this was enough!

 

I HATE the fact that all games now are considered a 'failure' and written off if they don't sell by the boatload and 'compete' with Call of Duty, Halo, WiiFit etc! What is happening to our gaming culture?? Are we all a bunch of materialistic cretins? Do we only believe quality is substantiated by mass approval?

 

-There are hardly any Wii fans, compared to the large percentage of wii owning casuals.

How many NES or Megadrive or Playstation owners could be described this way? Has a ring to it doesn't it - NES-owning casual blah blah.

 

Come on! This divisiveness of 'core', 'hardcore', 'casual' is absolute bollocks and it's a prejudice created by gamers. This generation of consoles has been amazing, with loads of variety on offer - the only truly ugly thing about it has been the unprecedented level of bullshit being spouted (it has to be said, mostly about the Wii). It trounces the 'console wars' of the 16 and 32/64 bit eras altogether for sheer blindness and stupidity. If you take any of the invented terms casual/hardcore/core seriously, or indeed set great importance by sales and mass approval, then you've already started to sink into the obtuse, robotic, prejudicial way of thinking that crushes alternative viewpoints, originality and, yes, FUN. It's almost like we've taken on the marketing and sales logic of the Big Faceless Corporations that we claim to hate.

 

Please, can we drop this stuff? Surely, it goes without saying that if you enjoy Wii games and have been a gamer for a while with varied tastes (ie not everything you enjoy has to be dark/violent/bloody/macho/stubbly) that you see past these false prescriptions?

 

Again, comparing the film medium to the games medium is ridiculous unto itself, so let's push that aside.

I don't think dazzy was comparing them as mediums at all.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Lens of Truth

[dazzybee]

This is a slippery slope, and largely a ridiculous thing to say. What you're saying, even if you are "semi" joking, is that Wii fans have very contemporary tastes compared to "core" gamers.

Again, comparing the film medium to the games medium is ridiculous unto itself, so let's push that aside.

This game has very few people interested for the following reasons:

-It is one of the "big" games that Wii fans get excited about, and this will follow it to the ends of the earth.

-There are hardly any Wii fans, compared to the large percentage of wii owning casuals.

-Unless you visit message boards, or have very good knowledge of the first game, you will not know about this game and might not even care.

-It's name does not excite anyone outside of that demographic.

 

Do these things make it comparable to contemporary "cinematic classics"?

No.

 

On a really generalised level, I know a lot of HD console players who slag off the WIi and know NOTHING about the Wii's software library. And you actually completely proved my point, most gamers, especially on HD consoles, know about the big games, the big, mega budget commercial games and like you said only Wii gamers (and a small percentage at that) know about games like Sin and Punishment etc That's what I'm saying, like the "mindset" of film fans, or music fans, or art fans... Only the real aficionados know about these. Same that only the real aficionados in film know about films like The Castle, Rashamon etc etc. Most people just know the absolute load of simple, bullshit mainstream wank like Transformers 2. Like Wolverine. And yes, like Grant Theft Auto, like Wii Sports, like Halo like blahblahblah

 

I will say, that the above couldn't be more generalised if I tried, I get that. And that's not to knock mainstream cinema, gaming or anything. I happen to like a lot of it. But my point still stands.

 

For me, a real core gamer is someone who loves games, irrespective of console, genre, how it looks etc. It feels, more so this generation than any other, that the "supposed" core are completely dismissing a whole section of gaming...

Edited November 2, 2009 by dazzybee

[Hero-of-Time]

For me, a real core gamer is someone who loves games, irrespective of console, genre, how it looks etc.

 

Well said, Dazzy. While we all have our favourite consoles there is no denying that there are quality titles out on ALL 3 machines and BOTH handhelds and to think otherwise is ridiculous.

[Zechs Merquise]

For me, a real core gamer is someone who loves games, irrespective of console, genre, who it looks etc. It feels, more so this generation than any other, that the "supposed" core are completely dismissing a whole section of gaming...

 

I've been playing games for over 20 years now, and I love a GREAT game. Now that might be Fire Emblem, it might be Mario Kart, it might be Resident Evil 4, Call of Duty Modern Warfare or Wii Sports. All of those are great games for VERY different reasons.

 

I play Fire Emblem for the deep story, Mario Kart for the hectic fun, Resident Evil 4 for the atmosphere and intensity, Modern Warfare for the multiplayer and levelling up and Wii Sports because me and the girlfriend did it together.

 

A lot of people who describe themselves as core gamers actually look down their noses at games like Wii Sports Resort as they feel it is below them. A good game is a good game - and there are different reasons why different games are great.

 

The Wii has undiscovered gems in its library like Little King's Story, Muramasa and Zack and Wiki. These are core games with great challenges, innovative styles and are tough - but they are games the self styled 'core gamer' looks down their nose at and call 'kiddy'.

 

These 'core gamers' ignore innovative fun and challenging games like the above and run off to buy the latest FIFA update or the latest generic FPS.

[Hero-of-Time]

Yup Little Kings Story is a fine example. My mate at work instantly dismissed it and questioned why I was buying it purely because of the boxart (looked kiddy apparently). The same goes for Viva Pinata on the 360.

[darksnowman]

Sin & Punishment and Muramasa aren't core titles.

 

Aimed at me? If so, I was being really tongue-in-cheek with my post up there. What I was getting at is that the likes of Fifa 10 will sell itself, whereas, S+P is a game that is only known amongst gamers like ourselves who are in the know when it comes to gaming news.

[tissuetown]

On a really generalised level, I know a lot of HD console players who slag off the WIi and know NOTHING about the Wii's software library. And you actually completely proved my point, most gamers, especially on HD consoles, know about the big games, the big, mega budget commercial games and like you said only Wii gamers (and a small percentage at that) know about games like Sin and Punishment etc That's what I'm saying, like the "mindset" of film fans, or music fans, or art fans... Only the real aficionados know about these. Same that only the real aficionados in film know about films like The Castle, Rashamon etc etc. Most people just know the absolute load of simple, bullshit mainstream wank like Transformers 2. Like Wolverine. And yes, like Grant Theft Auto, like Wii Sports, like Halo like blahblahblah

 

I will say, that the above couldn't be more generalised if I tried, I get that. And that's not to knock mainstream cinema, gaming or anything. I happen to like a lot of it. But my point still stands.

 

For me, a real core gamer is someone who loves games, irrespective of console, genre, how it looks etc. It feels, more so this generation than any other, that the "supposed" core are completely dismissing a whole section of gaming...

 

Yes but what you don't seem to realise is that this gen especially, there is far too much choice. If someone could only buy 10 games for a single year, and they owned all consoles. The odds are that the only Wii games will probably either be Wii Sports 2, NSMB or something. Unless they have preference over the Wii, but then again let's say that there is no bias, and that they buy the best games across all platforms.

But then let's talk about Wii fans. I mention Wii fans, because they will hold preference over Nintendo games. There are probably games on the other platforms that no one else buys and is equally as deserving of praise. To suggest Nintendo fans, or mostly Nintendo fans are like "film nerds" is stupid. The true "film nerd" of gaming are the ones who do not limit themselves to holding preference on one console, but to all platforms.

[Shino]

Filme nerds have preferences in director and studios too.