Oxigen_Waste Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Marriage is an idiotic conception. Not wanting to have sex before it is just another one. If you love someone, do it with them. Period.
mcj metroid Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 You have choice, and yet you allow a religion, of all things, to hold you back? I can understand where you're coming from with the wanting to wait - I partially feel the same way - but why not, if you find yourself with a girl/guy for a long time, use it as pretty much everyone does: as an expression and symbol of love between the two of you. I know you could say the same about marriage, but sex is cheaper, and less messy (I mean socially and legally, before anyone tries a cheap cum joke ) if you end up splitting up. it's his beliefs and he is happy doing it.. I too can't understand why anyone would let religion get in the way but that's not the point.
gaggle64 Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 You have choice, and yet you allow a religion, of all things, to hold you back? I can understand where you're coming from with the wanting to wait - I partially feel the same way - but why not, if you find yourself with a girl/guy for a long time, use it as pretty much everyone does: as an expression and symbol of love between the two of you. I know you could say the same about marriage, but sex is cheaper, and less messy (I mean socially and legally, before anyone tries a cheap cum joke ) if you end up splitting up. Do you not think though Fish that there isn't a certain nobility to a person or people choosing to adopt a way of life based on their own upbringing and philosophy? Sex is, as mammals, an integral part of the human experience. In many traditional Christian cultures, the consummation of the marriage is significant because it represents the couples absolute trust and freedom they now share with each other. The period of absitinance preceding the marriage represents not merely the religious devotion of the two individuals, but their devotion to each other, proof of their ability to witness each other as intellectual and spiritual beings as well as sexual ones. What grander expression of love can there be?
thirtynine. Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 What grander expression of love can there be? When she lets you stick it in the pewper?
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 What grander expression of love can there be? Tantric sex. ^^
M-PG71C Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Marriage is an idiotic conception. Not wanting to have sex before it is just another one. If you love someone, do it with them. Period. Yet the conception is one that is followed through in every aspect of society. Maybe the rules change when we change cultures, but it is still there. We are a race of symbolism. Even if a person is to become reclusive for a long peroid of time, he or she is still symbolizing something because it is in our nature to do so and to deny it.... Would only, in return, make the denial a symbol in itself and thus, the cycle continues. How love is symbolized by each couple is exclusively on their own terms, "doing it" is just one of many and not everybody sees the way you see things. That may be a very politically correct way to state it, but I like to think of it as simply opening your eyes and realizing what is deemed idiotic on your behalf is more along the lines of your failure to see different aspects of culture.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Yet the conception is one that is followed through in every aspect of society. Maybe the rules change when we change cultures, but it is still there. We are a race of symbolism. Even if a person is to become reclusive for a long peroid of time, he or she is still symbolizing something because it is in our nature to do so and to deny it.... Would only, in return, make the denial a symbol in itself and thus, the cycle continues. How love is symbolized by each couple is exclusively on their own terms, "doing it" is just one of many and not everybody sees the way you see things. That may be a very politically correct way to state it, but I like to think of it as simply opening your eyes and realizing what is deemed idiotic on your behalf is more along the lines of your failure to see different aspects of culture. You're not getting my point, but seeing that you're new here, I'll forgive you for being condescending. Point 1, I said "if you love someone, do it with them". If you were kind enough to really read that, I mention sex as an aftermath of love. After being aware that you truly love someone (and if you ask me, that's a pretty bold statement, "I love you"), then I believe you should indulge in carnal pleasure as much as possible/ as much as you want. Sex only works if you two share a bond of understanding, reliability, comprehension, etc (you know where this is going). As you said, we are a heavilly symbolic race, and what truly bothers me about marriage is precisely that... It's just a symbol. "True" marriage is there wether you like it or not! It's a psychological aspect wich you both (the couple) share or don't. It's the commitment level. Marriage is only a symbol of that, and the fact that people give marriage such a high profile, disgusts and annoys me. And judging by the increasing amount of divorces in the free countries of the world, I'd say I'm pretty right when I claim that most of the people who get married are hoping that "marriage" itself will provide them with the stability that their relationship lacks, wich is a total misconception. I will never get married in my entire life, what's wrong with just living together and having kids together without a pair of rings? Nothing! It's just we've grown so accostumed to such an idea that most of us can't even look past it. Oh, and might I just add, any religious marriage is even more of an idiotic conception. In the vows of marriage, it says that even though you shall devote your life to each other, you must love and serve The Lord (God) above all. That's bollocks. True marriage only works if you're devoting yourself to the most important thing in your life. Your wife/husband must be bigger than God, in your priorities... in order for marriage to really work, that is.
The fish Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 How love is symbolized by each couple is exclusively on their own terms, "doing it" is just one of many and not everybody sees the way you see things. True, but it should be decided between the two people, not what they have been told it is, especially when the teaching comes from, say, a religion.
MoogleViper Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 I wish I saved my vaginegar line for now instead Don't worry it made me laugh. I love this thread. There has been so many laughs. As for the sex/love/marriage debate, I don't see what is wrong with casual sex. Why is it any different from kissing? As long as both parties are aware of the situation then it is ok. And I don't get the "I respect you by not having sex with you." Surely you want to let somebody know you love them and are comfortable with them?
RagDoll Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 I'm a very deeply religious person so with that out of the way, I am still a virgin. I don't have any regrets, I've been offered more than a enough times and I've rejected every last offer. I have to admit it was hard to do so (:P) but I prefer to wait untill I am married. With that said, it may be in my interest to go on and state I really could give a crap less about people's sex lives regardless if it is before or after marriage. The beauty of this world is the fact that we have choice. Just out of interest, would you ever marry a girl who you knew had had sex before? Or will you only ever marry someone who also agrees with no sex before marriage?
Patch Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Marriage is an idiotic conception. Thanks for that wonderful insight.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Just out of interest, would you ever marry a girl who you knew had had sex before? Or will you only ever marry someone who also agrees with no sex before marriage? If he refused a girl just because she wasn't a virgin, he'd be what I call a moron. Thanks for that wonderful insight. I did explain why later. So don't act all condescending, mister.
Patch Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 I did explain why later. So don't act all condescending, mister. You deserved it. Matey
Patch Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 If I were to indirectly call someone an idiot, I think it would be fair for that person to make a sarcastic reply. Don't you?
M-PG71C Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 @ RagDoll It would honestly depend on the situation. I wouldn’t want to date a girl that has fucked over 30 guys and she happens to be 20. Just as much as there are women won’t date a guy that has done over 30 girls. Standards ARE standards and while everyone has their own, I would be brutally turned off if a girl just lets it go that easily. That is just the way it is, I will not date a whore. It tells me way too much of their personality. That may be conservative in thinking but that is how I see it. But if they did had sex before, I wouldn’t really care. I would be a little cautious (there are too many diseases nowadays, the last thing I want is AIDS/HIV) but generally speaking, I would be alright with it. People can make pretty good judgements about a person and I won’t let that get in the way of what could be a really good relationship. People do what they did in that time because they believed it was going to do them good. If things didn’t work out, why hold it against them? @ TheFish That depends, a person is made up of culture, religion, perspectives, and ultimately a perception of all three of them. You can never really escape it since it does make up who we are. Morals are teachings that derive from some source and it is our own morals that dictate how we live. When two people decide with each other, it boils down to what morals the two people have. Thus it comes back around to religion, culture, race, whatever aspects the person carries. Decision making alone is not entirely based on logic, a lot of is sociological. @ Oxigen Waste My bad, I didn’t mean to sound condescending. I just have a slight intolerance for people who belittle religion just as much as people who belittle a atheist or agnostic point of view. For all the knowledge we have in this world, it is still a damn shame we’re willing to belittle other people’s views when they are not on the basis of logic but rather spirituality and culture. Once again, my apologies. I’m just use to fighting the conservative and blatantly incorrect Christian teachings to turning around and end up fighting on the side of religion on a European forum. It is a real 180 for me, LOL! :P I think the words, “I love you” is abused so much, it no longer holds the same meaning as it once did. If anything, those words are used to get into someone’s pants more often then it is used to express love. At least in the American culture, especially in college. It gets old, ROFL! :P I’ll give you credit though, you are right that people hope that marriage itself will give them a more powerful and lasting relationship. That is not the case and it never has been, it is just people have become ignorant to it. People are willing to marry as soon as six months are up and are willing to divorce two years down the road. Marriage should be something significant but it has turned into amusement and the only reason we do it is so we have a reason to conduct pomp and circumstance.
mcj metroid Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 i never understood the sex before marraige thing.. What would happen once you married and only then found out your girlfriend has a penis? Would the shock not kill you? I'm pretty sere this has happened before:)
Patch Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 For all the knowledge we have in this world, it is still a damn shame we’re willing to belittle other people’s views when they are not on the basis of logic but rather spirituality and culture. Nicely put. I’ll give you credit though, you are right that people hope that marriage itself will give them a more powerful and lasting relationship. That is not the case and it never has been, it is just people have become ignorant to it. If two people get married solely to make a commitment to each other, I applaud them. If they are happy the way things are and don't need a certificate to prove their love, I applaud them also. However, if you want to start a family, then marriage is most definitely the better option in my opinion. I'd be fairly certain that broken families have been caused more by partners splitting up than by divorces, simply because it's not easy to get a divorce. You could say 'Isn't it better that they can split up easily if they are unhappy, instead of being locked into a marriage of misery?' which is a valid counter-argument. However, I believe you have to do what's best for your children and they always come first.
The fish Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 @ TheFish That depends, a person is made up of culture, religion, perspectives, and ultimately a perception of all three of them. You can never really escape it since it does make up who we are. Morals are teachings that derive from some source and it is our own morals that dictate how we live. When two people decide with each other, it boils down to what morals the two people have. Thus it comes back around to religion, culture, race, whatever aspects the person carries. Decision making alone is not entirely based on logic, a lot of is sociological. Morals are the result of evolution - that's why most people have fairly similar morals (over all) the world over. I fail to see how race enters into it, and religion should be entirely irrelevant to such an event. Logic, in it's very nature, forces the consideration of society. However, religious considerations should be disguarded, as they are, after all, all bollocks, especially in this day and age. Once again, my apologies. I’m just use to fighting the conservative and blatantly incorrect Christian teachings to turning around and end up fighting on the side of religion on a European forum. It is a real 180 for me, LOL! :P Firstly - that's rich coming from a Christian - I bet they (and everyone who isn't part of you denomination) would same the same about what you saw. Secondly - Northern Europe is the most secular area of the planet, you know?
DomJcg Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 But Fishy, Religion is part of society, whether you like it or not.
Oxigen_Waste Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 However, if you want to start a family, then marriage is most definitely the better option in my opinion. I'd be fairly certain that broken families have been caused more by partners splitting up than by divorces, simply because it's not easy to get a divorce. You could say 'Isn't it better that they can split up easily if they are unhappy, instead of being locked into a marriage of misery?' which is a valid counter-argument. However, I believe you have to do what's best for your children and they always come first. So basically you're saying that marriage is better because divorce makes it more complicated for people to get separated. People are stupid, they'll always start families and then leave them, it's just human nature, trial and error. If the only thing holding you together with your partner is you children, most likely they'll grow up pretty messed in the head, seen they grew up in a home without love. I hate hipocrisy.
Slaggis Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 So If I get married and have a couple of kids and then realise my marriage is failing and we don't love each other anymore your saying it's better to stay together "for the children". Thats crap, a child should see a loving relationship, not an unhappy one. Splitting up might mean you find someone else and the child gets to see a loving relationship as they grow up.
Patch Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 If the only thing holding you together with your partner is you children, most likely they'll grow up pretty messed in the head, seen they grew up in a home without love. I hate hipocrisy. Without the parents having love for each other you mean? Good point, but having two parents in a home that love a child is better than having one parent. IMO.
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