jayseven Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I think the main thing individuals derive from the Bible is a sense of purpose and self-worth. I don't particularly believe that any of the metaphorical allegories (lol) actually took place, or that there was ever a melevolant old-testament stylé God, or that there is a new-testament good guy looking over us all and steering us, but so what if others choose this? Another person's faith can only be a bad thing if they choose to force their views upon you - or upon an entire nation for whatever reason. From one point of view (that is, one who sees that peace is a desirable thing) the bible has taught many individuals, tribes, cultures and nations how to respect one another by in a sense distinguishing themselves from animals. Manners, faith in life and laws are all in the bible; simply a conduct book to help people stand and understand the company of others. This, I think, is something anyone can take from a religion if they look for it - compassion and respect for yourself, for others and for life. The bible is a book of lessons first and foremost; a guide to how to treat others.. How to live in this world and it's conditions. But the other point of view is that the book is instructions, that reading it and believing or having faith in the advice it presents is somehow allowing oneself to become brain-washed... I like to consider that if you think of the original way the "word of God" was circulated, you can understand why the book is written the way it is, and perhaps be able to realise that it was not written in the way it would be today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I think the main thing individuals derive from the Bible is a sense of purpose and self-worth. I don't particularly believe that any of the metaphorical allegories (lol) actually took place, or that there was ever a melevolant old-testament stylé God, or that there is a new-testament good guy looking over us all and steering us, but so what if others choose this? Another person's faith can only be a bad thing if they choose to force their views upon you - or upon an entire nation for whatever reason. From one point of view (that is, one who sees that peace is a desirable thing) the bible has taught many individuals, tribes, cultures and nations how to respect one another by in a sense distinguishing themselves from animals. Manners, faith in life and laws are all in the bible; simply a conduct book to help people stand and understand the company of others. This, I think, is something anyone can take from a religion if they look for it - compassion and respect for yourself, for others and for life. The bible is a book of lessons first and foremost; a guide to how to treat others.. How to live in this world and it's conditions. But the other point of view is that the book is instructions, that reading it and believing or having faith in the advice it presents is somehow allowing oneself to become brain-washed... I like to consider that if you think of the original way the "word of God" was circulated, you can understand why the book is written the way it is, and perhaps be able to realise that it was not written in the way it would be today. Purpose and self-worth are things that must be gained, earned!! Not acquired through reading. It may be a guide on how to live among others, but it teaches everything wrong. There are countless "guidestones" on how to live in society, and the bible is probably the worst of them all. This also applies to any type of religious books. They always make worshiping your God a priority over yourself. Word-of-God? The book was written by men. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 What does this have to do about the origin of the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 What does this have to do about the origin of the universe? I think it's pretty obvious. Creationism... ring a bell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 I think it's pretty obvious. Creationism... ring a bell? It's discussing the guy that people think may have created the universe therefore it is relavent in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 It's discussing the guy that people think may have created the universe therefore it is relavent in some way. And why are you saying it to me? I agree. =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 I think it's pretty obvious. Creationism... ring a bell? You're not talking about creationism. You're talking about guidelines, moral, Jesus and so on. I don't see how the Bible is relevant except the first few pages and that is not what you are discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 And why are you saying it to me? I agree. =D Quoted the wrong guy, oops. Also tales, umm, shutup. It's an intelligent conversation, either join in, or don't. Back to the topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 You're not talking about creationism. You're talking about guidelines, moral, Jesus and so on. I don't see how the Bible is relevant except the first few pages and that is not what you are discussing. You're not very skilled in the art of conversation, are you? Oo This might come as a surprise to you, but conversations are progressive. You know, the subject gradually changes and stuff. Hence, Origin of Universe -> God -> Bible -> guidelines, moral, Jesus and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 You're not very skilled in the art of conversation, are you? OoThis might come as a surprise to you, but conversations are progressive. You know, the subject gradually changes and stuff. Hence, Origin of Universe -> God -> Bible -> guidelines, moral, Jesus and so on. Exactly. If people say they believe that god created the earth, then surely that means they have to believe in all that stuff about Adam and Eve etc? I.e creationism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Back to the topic? No one has for the last few pages. Discussing faith is not discussing the origin of the universe. And no one has been discussing the "guy" either. I'm just saying this because I found the topic very interesting to read until you strayed too far of the topic. Just my opinion, you can talk about whatever you want(apperantly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr-Paul Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Exactly. If people say they believe that god created the earth, then surely that means they have to believe in all that stuff about Adam and Eve etc? I.e creationism. Not necesarily. I believe that God created the universe, but I don't think the story of Adam and Eve ever happened. It's just a fable made up by someone, which teaches that God created the universe, and that if you don't follow the rules set out, you will be punished. Tis probably the worst, most fictional part of the bible actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Is it not possible to believe in creationism and evolution? I can't explain it all, but..I believe in evolution, and the big bang. However, I also think that the world was crafted so well, and everything fits perfectly (the watch/creator analogy) that there has to have been something that tweaked it all to work. So - to summarize, I believe that 1. We evolved from initial forms, be it intention of the creator or by ourselves 2. The universe was created via the big bang. 3. The creator crafter our world and everything living in it. I was going to say something else but I forgot. :P Edit: Remembered. What my theory does not have any comment on is how God came about. That's the one problem I have in defining my own theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shino Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Purpose and self-worth are things that must be gained, earned!! Not acquired through reading. It may be a guide on how to live among others, but it teaches everything wrong. There are countless "guidestones" on how to live in society, and the bible is probably the worst of them all. This also applies to any type of religious books. They always make worshiping your God a priority over yourself. Word-of-God? The book was written by men. Period. You need to think that the Bible wasn't written for the minds of the people in the XXI century. Religions were a necessary evil for the development of human society, and the Bible (as for the other Holy books) were a significant progress in creating a homogeneous set of rules for public controlling at the time. I do agree we don't need any more "guiding", as most of our morals have surpassed those of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergrunch Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 Also tales, umm, shutup. It's an intelligent conversation, either join in, or don't. Don't flame him, he has a fair point. Anyway, I think these threads can drift a bit, but not too much... and this one is straying a little close to the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted September 22, 2007 Author Share Posted September 22, 2007 Don't flame him, he has a fair point. Anyway, I think these threads can drift a bit, but not too much... and this one is straying a little close to the line. Alright, apologies. How do we get the thread back on to the proper topic then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haver Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I've never got that story. I mean, drowning everyone on earth because it was full of sin or whatever? I mean what is this supposed gods problem? I have a question! (It's philosophy homework) Would we have morals as people if it wasn't for religion? Yes yes yes yes yes. The Good Samaritan did his good deeds before Christ was even born, thus he was not a Christian, and hence the most famous moral story from the bible was conducted by a non-Christian. I am not religious, but I am a good person. I do not need a fairy story to tell me what is right and what is not. Essentially, religion was useful when it was dark and we needed a helping hand to find our way. Now we have light (reason), and we do not need a guide, and religion must be disgarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Without the Bible, we wouldn't be a monarchy. Speaking of monarchy...it needs to be abolished. There's no place for it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Speaking of monarchy...it needs to be abolished. There's no place for it now. I dislike the idea of becoming a republic. I've always loved the way Britain has been indpendent from Europe, eg keeping the pound driving on the left not giving firearms to the general police force etc OK, this is going off topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Speaking of monarchy...it needs to be abolished. There's no place for it now. Quoted for truth! Where else could the Queen's phenomenal salary be spent? Oh yeah, the NHS! I'm for it, the monarchy is, for all intents and purposes, nothing but a leech on potential government funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haver Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Absolutely. We're 200 years behind the French, who had the good sense to overthrow their tyrants. Now the British -- we are far too servile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCK Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Is it not possible to believe in creationism and evolution? I can't explain it all, but..I believe in evolution, and the big bang. However, I also think that the world was crafted so well, and everything fits perfectly (the watch/creator analogy) that there has to have been something that tweaked it all to work. So - to summarize, I believe that 1. We evolved from initial forms, be it intention of the creator or by ourselves 2. The universe was created via the big bang. 3. The creator crafter our world and everything living in it. I was going to say something else but I forgot. :P Edit: Remembered. What my theory does not have any comment on is how God came about. That's the one problem I have in defining my own theory. You're thinking in the wrong order; the world wasn't made for us, we were, in essence, made for this world (evolution). The reason why everything 'fits perfectly' is a consequence of the planet/location in universe we're on, not the other way around. It's part of religious arrogance (not trying to be disrespectful) to think of human kind/the world as so special that it must've been created, whereas we just happen to be in a good location in the universe. Considering the vastness of space, there must be similar locations where intelligent life could thrive, as a consequence of the conditions there, and not because they were created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyson Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 A fair point. I'll let you know right now that I don't follow any religion :P But even so, is it really that much of a coincidence that everything in this world, about our bodies, the environment, the perfect distance from the sun etc, that everything just..clicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supergrunch Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 But even so, is it really that much of a coincidence that everything in this world, about our bodies, the environment, the perfect distance from the sun etc, that everything just..clicks? This argument doesn't hold because of the anthropic principle - if everything wasn't right, then we wouldn't be here to argue about it, so it fundamentally must be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyellowbloke Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 A fair point. I'll let you know right now that I don't follow any religion :P But even so, is it really that much of a coincidence that everything in this world, about our bodies, the environment, the perfect distance from the sun etc, that everything just..clicks? Well anything that didn't 'just click' with everything else wouldn't really last long would it? So things that do 'click' last longer as they are sustainable. Over time you end up with a world of loads of different things all clicking together as things that didn't click weren't sustainable and disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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