Fierce_LiNk

There's lots of reasons for that, though. People get older, take on more responsibilities (jobs, working away, family/children/married life, college, uni), or they either stop gaming or take on something different. It's partly why it's important we get a steady stream coming through. It's tough. Plus, the rise of social media with people posting comments on facebook pages, twitter, youtube videos instead of forums. We need Nintendo to sort their shit out in future otherwise we'll struggle to get new people in. It is a fan site after all.

The winner would be those who own more than one console. I think that would be the biggest group on the site, especially since most people in the other consoles board have both a WiiU and something else. After that, I dunno...there's a fair few who are just getting one now for Mario Kart or Smash. The site has changed over the years though, so many people have left. Those who have stuck around have probably done so for the community rather than solely being fans of Nintendo. The Mario Kart league has had loads of members so there are still a few coming through the doors but we need moar. It's a huge problem though and I don't think it's as simple as making a powerful machine and throwing money at exclusives. The image that Nintendo have needs addressing and they're going to have to really go to town with the marketing to overturn that.

I saw somebody post on the BBC Sport news feed that it must be doing Fabregas a world of good going against a team like Stoke and having players like Matic, Terry, Ivanovic and Costa around him who like to play rough. Had to agree, Chelsea aren't shy. If Matic and/or Costa spend a large period of time on the sidelines, then that'll spell trouble. Particularly Matic who is just an absolute rock there. I'm hoping Blind will grow into the same kind of player and he's already got a big fanbase.

Nope. Shooters are all the same and ergo bad. :p In all seriousness, I thought Destiny was beautiful in parts. A lot of variety there. The Moon was possibly my favourite location, though. Noooooooo. I think we've got our wires crossed here. My post was quoting @markderoos and following on from his thoughts, basically about Nintendo in the next generation. I mentioned @Goron_3s previous thread about children not growing up with Nintendo (now) and this is following on from that, hence why I said: "It's one way how the next generation are being introduced into gaming. It's not the only way, merely one route." I'm not really talking about the PS3/360 era and how Sony turned things around, but pointing out that one reason why certain children may not be growing up with Nintendo is because they're not being introduced by their parents or older siblings or people who grew up with them. Not THE reason, but one (albeit very small) route. For various reasons, there aren't enough gamers being introduced to Nintendo (also down to marketing issues) and this'll follow on to the next generation. There's not one sole reason why Nintendo are failing, but rather a variety and they're not building a fanbase for the future (as shown with declining sales), which I think @markderoos pointed out is getting smaller and smaller. Also, as much as we think brand loyalty is hilarious...we're on a Nintendo messaging forum, so there is some brand loyalty to an extent. We think Nintendo make good games, many of us have stuck with them for years and some will continue to do so. We follow the news, watch the conferences, pre-order the games, etc. I do agree that the landscape has changed for Nintendo fans and it's not really all that viable to solely rely on a Nintendo machine for everything.

In some instances, I found the androids to be worse. Especially if you have to accomplish some sort of task and they're loitering around. Enjoy the game. Extra tip, play the game with headphones...it's horrible and yet beautiful.

This is like talking to a child. I have already given you a vast list of big name developers who are already creating these diverse games that you are talking about. They are already there, just not on Nintendo systems. Are you implying that all of these belong to the same genre? You're just digging yourself into a huge hole here and are making it quite obvious that you know very little about these games. Destiny is a massive online game with elements of MMORPG and FPS. Watch Dogs is an open world game with a hacking element that contains a type of online that isn't all that common (the fact that you can invade other people's games, pretty awesome actually) and Shadow of Mordor is...like none of the above. So, you've listed a MMORPGFPS, an open world hacking title and a story driven adventure game. That's not even talking about the rest. You are also conveniently missing out games such as Forza Horizon and DriveClub. But, I guess these two are identical because they are racers? (clue: they are not at all alike) Sunset Overdrive, Dragon Age, Alien: Isolation (it has a gun, must be a shooter), The Evil Within, LBP3 (I want it for the editing functions), Transistor, Geometry Wars 3, FF (the one Sheikah keeps bugging us to play), Don't Starve, etc. Maybe you should just forget about what you think AAA is and just enjoy what there is to offer out there. It'll probably blow your mind.

How is it pointless? Just like many of us grew up with Nintendo and have stuck with them, there will also be big groups of Playstation fans and Microsoft fans who have been through the same thing (Microsoft are on their 3rd system, Sony their 4th). Nintendo fans aren't the only ones with some degree of brand loyalty. I know many gamers who grew up with Sony machines and are still sticking with them, for example. It's one way how the next generation are being introduced into gaming. It's not the only way, merely one route.

Ah, ok. I understand now. Somebody made a thread on here not too long ago...could have been @Goron3. Basically it was about how the younger/next generation of gamers aren't growing up with Nintendo. It's also worth noting that a lot of people who were gaming or growing up during the N64/GC era are probably now going to be parents, so maybe they've passed down their love for Nintendo to their children. Or, like you said, there are many who have stopped caring for Nintendo in that way. It's probably worth noting that there are legions of fans who have grown up with a Sony system and also many who had the Xbox as their system of choice when growing up. So, there's a lot to think about there.

...But you already said that they were the Independent film studios of the gaming world. It can't be both because you have previously separated them into two categories. :p The issues are that you are blurring the lines and terminology behind each of these and bending them to fit in with your analogy. Nintendo, by definition, can't be of the Independent world because they mass produce games with high production values and rake in the big money whilst doing so (Mario, for instance and everything affiliated with Mario). The problem is that Nintendo can also fall under some of these categories. New Super Mario, for instance. Pokemon. I just don't think that these comparisons work at all, at least not in the way that you are describing them. That's what happens when one tries to put things into certain categories (what I was alluding to earlier with just labelling everything with a gun as shooter). It's like trying to categorise rock music, blanket terms such as this just don't work and you have to be really spot on with what the terms mean when applying them.

It's quite quick to build up a big collection as a lot of these appear on PlaystationPlus/PS+. I'd imagine that MS have something similar?

Really? Fuuuuuuck, that's expensive. I'll rethink that then. That looks pretty damn good actually. 500GB is more than enough, too, especially when you add in the portable drives I'd be using. Seems to be getting good reviews. How long would I seriously be able to use this for before the whole thing falls apart? Is the build quality good? Reliable?

Not a fan of Tearaway? I was tempted to get a Vita for it, but I'll wait for the PS4 game. The comparisons you are making do not work because others will simultaneously use AAA to describe Nintendo's titles. They are big budget games, so Nintendo can't fall into that Independent film category that you mention. Also, they do not fall into that category anyway because they mass produce certain games series like Mario and Zelda anyway. (some may put Mario Kart, Kirby, Donkey Kong into that category. Or even Pokemon) We've had two Zelda remakes (one for WiiU, one for 3DS), one new one for 3DS, one new one (coming) for WiiU and another remake for 3DS. I don't really agree with using blanket terms such as "Hollywood" or "AAA" and it creates a lot of issues when they're used. What makes you think that the gaming community is getting smaller? I'd say it's getting bigger. I can't remember gaming ever being this popular. Also, for the younger gamers, there's a potential for them to use certain games series' as a platform to then jump into higher quality stuff. Nintendo would be in a bad way regardless of whether they went for power or not, because their issues go way beyond simply "not having a powerful enough system". Like I already mentioned, they have missed out on big cross-generation games and they are further losing big names. Their issues are deep-rooted and need fully addressing if they want the next issue to be a success, unless they go possess some kind of gimmick that we simply don't know about yet, which also contains its own pitfalls and problems.

I consider gaming to be close to or on par with films and tv now. There's lots of reasons why and there is so much content out there now from lots of different teams which cover a wide variety of genres. There's tons of content to consume. For those of us who spend a great deal of time gaming, we'll jump from one game to the next. Some will take it slow and maybe they'll only get through a handful a year, some will power through them and get onto the next lot, some will play little bits of each game and skip back and forth. There's lots of ways to approach it. Does each game have to be memorable? In my opinion, yes, to some extent. You have to remember playing it. If somebody asked me do I remember watching Inception, or 2001: A Space Odyssey or Star Wars, I'd say yes. For each film I've seen, I may not remember the whole ins and outs of it, but I'll remember some basic plot points and whether or not I enjoyed it. (I loved all of the above) It's similar to games. Do I remember everything about A Link to the Past? No. Do I remember everything about Skyward Sword? No. But I do know that I much preferred the former to the latter. I remember the basic plot, I remember what you sorta had to do and I remember how I felt when playing them. Do I think it's harder to remember stuff because of the degrade in quality? No. I think it's harder because there's so much of it out there.

Originally, yes. But, he then said: So, that's Nintendo solely. Not Nintendo + indies.

This Chelsea team are unreal. I'm looking at that midfield with Matic and Fabregas holding it and with Hazard, Oscar and Willian in front of them, servicing Costa. With Courtois in goal. If they keep everyone fit, they're going to be such a good side for years to come. They're probably one centre-back short (someone to replace Terry when he decides to retire) and another striker for when Drogba goes. Aside from that, it's a scary team. Glad we managed to get a point from them earlier in the season.

Ine pointed out something to me about Chromebooks: "You already get pissed off when using word on Macbooks, I think Chrome will be similar..." She's got a point, I guess. The first link you provided looks like it could be a winrar. Also, Moogle's link. Could be a toss up between those two. Ine's sister came around today with her Surface Pro and it does actually seem quite tempting. The screen size is the biggest issue and it's whether I can live with something of that size. It's either that or go for a more traditional laptop. Thank you all for your replies, it's given me a lot of ideas. The annoying thing is that the macbook is now working almost perfectly, but I'll need to move on from this in the long term.

Ah yes, these shooty-shooty, killy-kill type of games. How do you even know that this is all there is to it? Maybe you should actually try these types of games so that you know what you're talking about. Partly because your original comment bordered on the absurd, but enough about that. It doesn't have any relevance to this discussion. You really don't have a clue. There is already a big breadth of content already provided by everybody else out there. Just because it doesn't come from one developer (or one team of developers, one stable, whatever) doesn't mean it isn't deep or wide. I think @Sheikah already made this point before. You're literally comparing one division/developer with...everything else.

I really don't understand what point you're trying to make here. Take the list of developers I posted earlier and think about some of the games they've created. For many, it's about making progressive games, games that have evolved and games which give us some sort of idea of what the futures lies in this medium. It's not simply about "we have to add this in because otherwise it's the same as last year" and I just can't subscribe to this method of thinking. This type of snide comment is pointless and will just make others take your arguments less seriously. That's good for just Nintendo. Although you have to also point out that this is going to be the vast majority of what there is to play on this system because they don't have the other developers on board. It HAS to be diverse because there's nobody else left to pick up the slack on the WiiU.

Nope, not entirely. Co-operative gameplay: I can give you an example right now, @kav82 and @Blade might be able to help out here. Battlefield4, we were in that map that takes place in the mountains, like an underground bunker type of base. There was a corridor we were trying to penetrate and we couldn't get through because the enemy had positioned themselves well the other side. So, there's around 30 of us working together to make it through the corridor, some of us just suppressing the fire, some of us healing the fallen, some of us going around. Working together to get through on that mission. Online battles: The example above would fall into this category too, where you've got 32vs32. However, there were also times where a small group of us would be just trying to get to an objective marker and holding that base, rather than straight-forward engaging in firefights. In these instances, we'd be getting to a marker and hiding out of sight to secure that point. Lots of different ways of achieving the objective. Players communicating: We only ever communicated within our own sub-team, which has a max of 5. So, the five of us would be communicating with each other (or just generally having a laugh). There are times when two or more of these things overlap, but they're not always the same thing. I just don't agree with that at all. If you mean the jump between PS3/4 360/One, then you're probably right for now, but that'll change when games get made exclusively for the new systems and the old ones get left behind. However, better graphics does pretty much equal more benefits. More realism (if you want that), more scope for creativity, more immersion, more level of detail, better draw distance, etc. DriveClub is one game that shows how much of a difference more power can have. That's such a narrow way of looking at it. You could technically argue that all Mario and Zelda have you do is "walk around in a fantasy setting and kill", which would be true to some extent. Obviously, there is more to it than that. What about the Nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor, or the stealth-like gameplay in Alien, or the quests in games like The Witcher and Dragon Age? You have to look beyond that rather than just taking games at face value. Metroid Prime, for instance, is regarded as one of the best games of all time. As is Half-Life. Metro is very interesting, so is Destiny and Battlefield. All of these are "shooters" but they are all very, very different and offer completely different things. Some of them aren't technically classed as part of the FPS genre first (Metroid Prime, Metro) because they also merge together with other genres.

@Sexual Chocolate, I'm in Belgium for Christmas, spending it with Ine's family. I'll be unable to play our game this week due to not being in the same country as the PS4. (I'm suffering from withdrawal :'() Will we be ok to reschedule for next week?

:p So, what are Nintendo going to do next generation to rectify the mistakes that they have made for the past few? How are they going to get these developers on board? These are important questions to me because it ultimately determines where I'll be playing these games in future. It's a bit stupid we have to start talking about next generation already because of Nintendo's inability to deliver on promises for this one. It's when you look at each type of game one dimensionally that you lose points, imo. Grey shooters, for example. Well, they're grey for a reason, so what is that reason? Are they trying to mimic a desert storm-type setting (CoD, Battlefield), are they going down the survival horror route (Metro) or are they going for something else entirely. It's when you try to combat that "grey" and say that having colour is instantly better. Well, it's different, but not necessarily better. If colour gives you quirkiness and humour, then "grey" can also give you grit, depth with a story, other spectrums of emotion. Tomb Raider is one that instantly springs to mind, as does The Last of Us.

Hence why I changed it to say "most". The answer would probably be "no". If the WiiU is really on par with the other systems and can offer similar things, then why isn't it getting the cross-generational games like Shadow of Mordor, Alien Isolation or Dragon Age, or even GTAV. The answer is that Nintendo have just as many labels with other developers as they do with many mainstream gamers. They have also now lost EA by the looks of things.

Part of the problem is that you are missing a huge part of this picture. You just see war shooter, whereas others see it as co-operative gameplay, huge online battles, players communicating with each other, graphics that weren't entirely possible the generation before, ability to do things that weren't possible the generation before. Also, to ignore quality from the likes of Bethesda, Bioware, Bizarre Creations, Blizzard, Creative Assembly, Crytek, Level-5, Media Molecule, Monolith Productions, Naughty Dog, Obsidian Entertainment, Platinum Games, Quantic Dream, Rocksteady Studios, SCE, Telltale Games, Turtle Rock studios, Ubisoft (a lot of negative press, but they also get a lot right, such as Rayman Origins and Legends which in my opinion bested the recent New Super Mario Bros. games and 3D World), Valve, WB games, to name a few, would be daft. Nintendo aren't the only ones to create polished games, neither are they the only ones who can offer creativity and something different/unique to and for the industry. The dream scenario would be to get a powerful console with Nintendo and most of these developers who I just mentioned. Will it happen?

You missed a potential funny with the title. My 10 Year N-E-versary. I think I've been here since...2003? 2002? What a waste of time this has been! I've always enjoyed the world cup/euro boards. Whenever E3 comes around, although slightly less so now because Nintendo are shit with E3. The revealing of the revolution controller, Red Steel magazine bullshots thread, new Zelda stuff, etc. It's been a hell of a ride.

Must be all that porn she's watching, brah. MEET SEXY RUSSIANS IN YOUR AREA. THESE BORED HOUSEWIVES JUST WANT TO HAVE FUN. THIS WOMAN'S BRA JUST FELL OFF. YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.