The Legend of Zelda's 35th Anniversary

[Ashley]

@Julius said he wasn't sure where to post the Game and Watch listing so I figured I'd start a thread to talk about the 35th anniversary generally and Zelda memories, favourite games, intense timeline discussions etc.

There are of course topics for Breath of the Wild 2 and Skyward Sword HD which make up part of the anniversary (even if BotW2 is out next year), plus there's the Game and Watch coming out in November and is £44.99 on the UK store (thanks @Julius).

 

[Dcubed]

The Select Glitch lives!!! Well happy they chose the original B&W version of LA!  
 

That being said? Utterly baffled why they chose Vermin G&W instead of Zelda G&W.  I mean, come on!!

Edited June 16, 2021 by Dcubed

[Glen-i]

24 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

That being said? Utterly baffled why they chose Vermin G&W instead of Zelda G&W.  I mean, come on!!

Silly you, WiiU games can only be ported to Switch!

(I still get to lord it over most people that I've actually played that Game & Watch game. It's great!)

[Dcubed]

2 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Silly you, WiiU games can only be ported to Switch!

(I still get to lord it over most people that I've actually played that Game & Watch game. It's great!)

Ironically, Wii U also happens to have G&WG Advance on the VC; so it can play Zelda G&W too  

[Glen-i]

Just now, Dcubed said:

Ironically, Wii U also happens to have G&WG Advance on the VC; so it can play Zelda G&W too  

[Ashley]

11 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

The Wii U?

[Glen-i]

Just now, Ashley said:

The Wii U?

Now I just feel bad for the Wii U...

[Aperson]

OK, so we've established that Nintendo isn't doing much for the Zelda 35th anniversary.

 

So with that in mind I am going to make up for that... with nearly 2 and a half hours of Zelda Youtube content. This is my personal Zelda gaming diary in celebration of the 35th anniversary of the series.

 

 

There are a few slight scene discrepencies where I was trying to make some last minute edits but more or less everything is in place.

 

Timestamps for video since you can't see them in the embed:

 

 

0:00:00 Opening Titles

0:00:46 Intro

0:04:17 The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap

0:14:09 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

0:22:24 The Legend of Zelda

0:24:17 Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

0:26:24 The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

0:36:09 The Legend of Zelda: the Wind Waker

0:42:07 The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

0:48:12 The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess

0:59:50 The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass

1:05:34 The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks

1:11:52 The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

1:26:49 The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Anniversary Edition

1:31:43 The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening

1:38:33 The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds

1:48:35 The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages

1:53:53 The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons

2:03:22 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

2:18:20 All the Other Zelda Games

2:22:10 Outro

[darksnowman]

To follow up on replaying LttP the other month, I recently started a new file in Ocarina of Time 3D--3D cranked to the max  --to continue my personal Zelda celebration. You're forgiven for not noticing since OoT 3D disables your online status while playing.  

We all know this game so well (and many of you know it better than I do, no question) so I've no intention of boring anyone by waxing lyrical about well-known details.  

I already have a 100% file on 3DS and have no intention of getting all the skulltulas again on this version. Apart from that, I'm going for pretty much everything else that I can remember, unless I draw a blank on some heart pieces or something, and a minimum of 50 skulltulas only. Caught the lunker but can't remember if the Hylian Loach gives you anything? Not sure anymore but skipping on that bad boy is probably out of the question for any self-respecting Ocarina of Timer.  

Here are some things that I've noticed about the game and the controls:

• the game looks as great as ever with the updated 3DS graphics, but it would be nice to play a souped-up OoT on the big screen. I love the 3DS but it is a bit pokey for grand adventures like this. 
• it could benefit from 360º camera control. For the first while, my thumb kept straying to the New 3DS nub but no dice with that.
• speaking of controls, I'm uncertain whether I picked this up from BotW or LA on Switch (or LttP??), but to begin with I kept pressing Y for sword and R to throw rocks. Not saying it needs changing, just funny to me that I had to recalibrate (or decalibrate) myself.
• it would be nice to play with a stick instead of having my thumb slide off the old refresher all the time.
  

Some things I think could be addressed in a re-release:

• Cutscenes (Goddesses, Hyrule Creation, etc) go by quite fast. These could be slowed a fraction or extended a wee bit? Imo, it would be nice to soak in what is on screen a bit more before the automatic text continues. 
• Owl dialogue should all be defaulted to do not repeat!  
• Bunny hood speed from Majora's Mask could be incorporated?
• A bestiary could be added to give veterans a reason to check Navi's enemy descriptions. (Braces self for someone telling me something like this is already implemented in OoT 3D.)
• Navi's 3DS interjections to take a break need to be cut. I keep checking what she has to say because it happens at unexpected times and it is only to tell me to take a break. How about you give me a break, Navi!
• cut the 3DS hints and tips givers or incorporate them in a less garish manner. Rotten. 
• under no circumstances should King Zora's shimmy speed be increased!  
• a re-release needs to happen if for no other reason than to return the Stone of Agony to all its vibrating glory.

So how is the playthrough going? My last save is from years and years ago so OoT really is ripe for a revisit for me. That's a lot to do with why I've been up for it coming to Switch as part of the Zelda 35th celebration. Now that I'm replaying it I am less bothered about it being re-released this year or any time soon, really. I mentioned above that the controls took me a minute or two to get second nature again, that also extends to the flow of the game.

Some early game spoilers ahead for after the first level or so.

When I first got to Kakariko Village I made a beeline for the graveyard to get the Sun's Song, Hylian Shield (always a good early freebie to know about) and a couple of pieces of heart. This is where I discovered just how rusty with OoT I had become! I couldn't remember what graves to pull; my muscle memory was gone. So I went ahead into the Royal Family's Tomb... but couldn't remember how to trigger the Sun's Song learning sequence. I tried manually playing the song using the inscription on the wall for guidance, tried Zelda's Lullaby to see if that would trigger something, went back a room and defeated the re-deads just in case, went back another room and tried to interact with the skull and skeleton, tried to run with a lit Deku stick to light some torches in the first room... I hadn't the foggiest what to do. I even went back out to the graveyard to try to get the composer brothers ghosts to appear and teach me! 

With nothing doing there, I left and headed for Death Mountain and Goron City... where I also couldn't remember exactly what to do! A goron said music, so I thought I needed Saria's Song immediately. Another goron said it would be nice if the torches are lit but I couldn't see a lit torch to get the sequence going, which could also be used to light some bomb flowers to open a shortcut to the Lost Woods, and Sarias's Song. But I was at a dead end with everything there. (When I later returned with Saria's Song I realised it's Zelda's Lullaby first, then Saria's Song next. Obviously.) 

So, I left and went back to the graveyard as it was nighttime by then and I could do the grave digging tour. Spent all my money and no heart piece! But pulling graves for rupees, I found the graves for the heart piece and shield... but you need the Sun's Song first. Of course you do. So I went back into the Royal Family's Tomb, and this time without thinking I went up to the wall, pressed the context-sensitive button and low and behold, the Sun's Song was mine.  

After that, things started falling into place (I couldn't remember what to do on the Forest Stage but that came back to me once I started a particular sidequest) and I'm well into the back half of the game now. I just had to keep in mind to return to the graveyard digging tour with a bigger wallet.  

Portable screensize and refresher slider aside, OoT is so good to play on 3DS. Small keys, dungeon maps, compasses and nightmare keys all pop out of the screen when Link holds them aloft. I tried to pinch the Ocarina of Time and hookshot. Rauru stared out of the screen and deep into my soul, and Ingo looked like he was going to burst out into the real world when throwing his losing tantrum.  

Now I'd rather have Majora's Mask on Switch.  

Edited July 6, 2021 by darksnowman
resized image

[Hero-of-Time]

Strangely enough, I’m currently playing through it again as well.

I’ve finished off the first 3 temples but refuse to move on until I’ve gotten all the upgrades, masks and other bits and bobs that you can get before turning into adult Link. 

[darksnowman]

2 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Strangely enough, I’m currently playing through it again as well.

I’ve finished off the first 3 temples but refuse to move on until I’ve gotten all the upgrades, masks and other bits and bobs that you can get before turning into adult Link. 

Well you are the Hero of Time so you should be playing this in perpetuity.  

The heat is on now since this game has a timer. I'm toast.

 

[nekunando]

7 hours ago, darksnowman said:

Now I'd rather have Majora's Mask on Switch.  

The last thing Majora's Mask needs is another moment in the sun.. or even in the tiny glimmer of an imposing moon!

The best way to play that game is to never rewind to the dawn of the first day but instead play the song of double time a few times, let the moon obliterate everything in sight and assume that it's the end of the game..

[Glen-i]

10 hours ago, nekunando said:

The last thing Majora's Mask needs is another moment in the sun.. or even in the tiny glimmer of an imposing moon!

The best way to play that game is to never rewind to the dawn of the first day but instead play the song of double time a few times, let the moon obliterate everything in sight and assume that it's the end of the game..

Joke's on you. You have to rewind at least once before you can play that song!

I can never understand how people can feel so pressurised with MM. You have around 3 hours per cycle with the inverted Song of Time on the N64 version.

[nekunando]

7 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Joke's on you. You have to rewind at least once before you can play that song!

I can never understand how people can feel so pressurised with MM. You have around 3 hours per cycle with the inverted Song of Time on the N64 version.

While I didn't exactly appreciate the time limit, I didn't particularly enjoy the game regardless.

In fact, as much as I love the franchise, I think that if I was to look through a list of every game in the Zelda series, the amount of entries I really like (and in several cases love) would unfortunately be in the minority!

[darksnowman]

Majora's Mask doubles as one of the best Zelda games and one of the best games ever though.

[darksnowman]

Watching Ganon's Tower collapse and fold in on itself, I had time to think that I really should remember to replay OoT again within the next couple of years, certainly within the next five rather than the 2012-2021 gap between files you can see above. Similar to with A Link to the Past, I'm guilty of taking for granted just how great these games are. Yep, there's OoT topping another best games ever list. And the sky is up and water runs downhill, so what else is new? It can become so normalised that you lose sight of why OoT is so much fun to play in the first place. Even in the present day.

Well, that was a few days ago when I first cleared that file. Thing is, when I went back into the game post-credits to take a snap of the file select screen for this post, I was flabbergasted to realise there was no complete save.  Playing on 3DS, I hadn't saved very often throughout this run, opting to just close the clamshell when I was done and plug it in whenever the battery dropped into the red. What a nitwit. Thankfully, I had recorded a save after the Desert Colossus, but I still had to go back, get Nayru's Love, redo the Gerudo Training Grounds, hunt down the last Poes again (how finicky they can be!), and redo Ganon's Tower to get the pic you see here. That save is from just before delivering the final blow to Ganon. I wasn't planning to replay any of OoT immediately but things have a funny way of working out.

It doesn't feel like I spent twenty-two and a half hours on this... I thought I was going about things fairly breezily! This length--or a smidge longer with some additional meaningful things to do between levels--is the sweet spot for Zelda, imo.

I collected 75 gold skulltulas, so it looks like my time is fairly consistent with save slot 1 where I got all 100 (and saved further back than just before the final blow, I'd hazard). Other than that, I reckon I got everything else and all upgrades but I wouldn't be surprised if something was missed along the way. Most difficult heart pieces to remember during this run were in Gerudo Valley. I was doing the rounds as child Link checking for soil to plant my two remaining magic beans when I came across them.

Some final observations:

• as adult Link, it is so satisfying to one-shot enemies that take multiple hits from child Link.
• there are some really nice pink-gold sunsets in this. Impressive.  
• climbable surfaces with no stamina management!
• items needed for puzzles are available in grass, from enemies, or in pots in the rooms where you need them most, from inside the Great Deku Tree all the way to Ganon's Tower. It's like the game wants you to play it or something.
• pick uppable arrows would be nice (I mean if your shot misses... specifically thinking of the Poes here. ). 
• d-pad for browsing shops would be cool too. But then I'm one of those weirdos whose thumb always gravitates to the d-pad so I could be in the minority with this one.  

On 06/07/2021 at 1:28 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

I’ve finished off the first 3 temples but refuse to move on until I’ve gotten all the upgrades, masks and other bits and bobs that you can get before turning into adult Link. 

I should try that next time. Even with a long time between plays, I'm pretty stuck in my ways when it comes to the order of doing things in OoT. Although there is no set point in the game to do a lot of the sidequests, I still find myself going after things in a similar order to how I discovered them the first time through on N64. For some reason, it just feels right to leave some child Link stuff to mop up during the first segment of the Desert Colossus. And I couldn't imagine collecting all the Poes earlier either as what would be the point of Hyrule Field without them tormenting me?  

I'm going to give the final word to the 3D effect. Here, I'd just pulled out the ocarina to play the song of storms to see if the rain would refill the dried out oasis when that bird swooped perfectly down into the freeze-frame. The tail and wing in the lower-right protruded from the screen so much, it was like you could touch them. Such a cool effect.  

[Glen-i]

I only just learned that you can freeze those moving spike traps with the Ice Arrows from Games Done Quick a few days ago!

So they're only mostly useless instead of completely useless!

The best thing about the 3DS version is the gyro controls for aiming. Aiming in the N64 games is really stiff and the gyro is just a million times better!

[darksnowman]

I was never a huge fan of the Oracle duo, even before they came out because it felt (imo) like they were attempting to "Pokémonise" Zelda by releasing two versions. Maybe I would have preferred it had they been released six months to a year apart, with magazine campaigns promoting the second instalment and the need to have your save file done and ready to link to the follow-up. Even if this was considered, it was probably deemed unfeasible with people moved on to Konami Krazy Racers and Golden Sun by then.

I refuse to call him Link in these--the wordplay with him being a link between me and the game, a link between seasons and ages, a link between games is just too much for me.  

Use my password if you want. But why would you? 

So yeah, I've been replaying the Oracle games lately, trying (again) to enjoy them for the games they are without the baggage I originally brought. Oracle of Seasons is done and I'm into Ages now, so I reckon it's as good a time as any to try to collect some thoughts on them. Despite having played them multiple times now, I'm not as familiar with these Zelda games. That could be down to the timing of their original release as I think I only knew one person who got them so there wasn't much "have you done this yet?" and "have you found that yet?" going on. As such, I still don't know where to get everything as evidenced by the fact I still missed four heart pieces this time through and who knows how many other bits and bobs.

Here's some bullet points:

• Conceptually, the season changing aspect is good but in practice, I only think it gets used to its potential once? The rest of the time you just need to switch seasons to uncover something on the overworld and that's that.
• The world is compact so you get to know how the screens connect fairly well. (Somehow I managed to finish it without visiting every square.)
• I didn't and don't like the underworld/ Subrosia. The music, the look, the atmosphere, navigating it. Not my cup of tea. I didn't want to go on dates with Rosa--she's not Marin!! I didn't want to be there at all.
• Some stuff I don't know how I originally figured out. And I mean story progression stuff. 
• The skeleton pirates are fun with music reminiscent of something from the Corpse Bride.
• Some good levels/ puzzles but some (inevitably?) less good as they cranked out sixteen levels across two games.
• The animal buddies feel out of place.
• These games are like Link's Awakening fan-hacks rather than all-new entries. 
• Mr Write returns!
• The music from LA that plays between beating a boss and collecting an instrument of the sirens is overused here.
• Some cool cross-over things in a linked game like characters moving from the world of seasons to the world of ages and knowing you.
• Does the 3DS really not know how to connect these games? Boo.
• Capcom touches like vanishing Mega Man blocks  and the screen-filling final boss sprite.
• Seems like too much back and forth to get the real ending.
• I played carelessly and died a lot and didn't remember about creating restore points on 3DS until I was four levels in.  Towards the end, I made a restore on multiple screens per level just in case I got wiped out. Mostly I lost health to jumps.

Two halves of the same whole these may be, I think Oracle of Ages edges it for me because there is no Subrosia, and perhaps as it starts off in a different tone with people being put to work to build the tower and the first level being in the graveyard. The Maku tree in each game is still goofy.

If you're after more Gameboy Zelda in the style of Link's Awakening I'd say just replay Link's Awakening. The Oracle games could do with a LA style rerelease (in a double-pack rather than two separate full-price games...) as I think a graphical and musical upgrade could help give them their own identity. Of course, having items mapped to more than two buttons would be nice too.  

[Glen-i]

Once again, someone makes the mistake of playing Seasons first.

You're really gonna miss the Roc's Cape and Hyper Slingshot in Ages...

[nekunando]

7 hours ago, darksnowman said:

If you're after more Gameboy Zelda in the style of Link's Awakening..

That's the last thing I'd be after!

7 hours ago, darksnowman said:

..I'd say just replay Link's Awakening

A glowing endorsement!

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Once again, someone makes the mistake of playing Seasons..

Glad I won't be making the same mistake

All jokes aside (it wasn't all jokes ) I've never really looked into the Oracle games, even when they came to 3DS Virtual Console. 

Always kinda wondered how different they might have been given Capcom's involvement but never curious enough to give them a go!

[Dcubed]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Once again, someone makes the mistake of playing Seasons first.

You're really gonna miss the Roc's Cape and Hyper Slingshot in Ages...

To be fair, Ages is notably more difficult than Seasons.  I wouldn't personally recommend playing Ages first on your first-time playthrough (on a second one though? Sure, play Ages first and bask in the glory of the unlockable Roc's Cape & Hyper Slingshot!)

Quote

All jokes aside (it wasn't all jokes ) I've never really looked into the Oracle games, even when they came to 3DS Virtual Console. 

Always kinda wondered how different they might have been given Capcom's involvement but never curious enough to give them a go!

Worth noting that all the staff that worked on both Oracles games (and eventually Four Swords & Minish Cap) ended up joining Nintendo EAD when Flagship was closed down; and now head the Zelda series proper (The rest of the Flagship staff joined HAL BTW).  So it's not that far removed from the other titles in the series really (though I do agree that both games do have a "fan game" sort of feel to them; especially considering how much they outright steal from other Zelda titles).

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dcubed

[Ike]

7 hours ago, darksnowman said:

I was never a huge fan of the Oracle duo, even before they came out because it felt (imo) like they were attempting to "Pokémonise" Zelda by releasing two versions.

They originally planned 3 games, but they realised the password system would be too complex. Personally I liked it because you got 2 new Zelda games at the same time, it wasn't like Pokemon where just a few things changed.

Quote

These games are like Link's Awakening fan-hacks rather than all-new entries. 

I like the games, but thank you! I have the same feeling.

The games originally started life as a Zelda 1 remake, before they eventually became what they are today. You can see evidence in Seasons (the first dungeon location on the map is the same, the dungeon boss is the same). Not sure if there are any references in Ages.

Ages has the Goron Dance, so that's automatically the worse version.

[Dcubed]

4 minutes ago, Ike said:

They originally planned 3 games, but they realised the password system would be too complex. Personally I liked it because you got 2 new Zelda games at the same time, it wasn't like Pokemon where just a few things changed.

I like the games, but thank you! I have the same feeling.

The games originally started life as a Zelda 1 remake, before they eventually became what they are today. You can see evidence in Seasons (the first dungeon location on the map is the same, the dungeon boss is the same). Not sure if there are any references in Ages.

Ages has the Goron Dance, so that's automatically the worse version.

Seasons/Mystical Seed of Power was originally the Zelda 1 remake (before they dumped the idea of making a trilogy in favour of a duology instead); Ages/Mystical Seed of Wisdom was an original title.  That's why Seasons in particular ends up stealing SO MUCH from Zelda 1.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dcubed

[Ike]

3 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Seasons/Mystical Seed of Power was originally the Zelda 1 remake (before they dumped the idea of making a trilogy in favour of a duology instead); Ages/Mystical Seed of Wisdom was an original title.  That's why Seasons in particular ends up stealing SO MUCH from Zelda 1.

Ah, that makes sense.

[darksnowman]

2 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Once again, someone makes the mistake of playing Seasons first.

You're really gonna miss the Roc's Cape and Hyper Slingshot in Ages...

You could have just said, "Once again, someone makes the mistake of playing Seasons," and that would have sufficed.   

But what can you do. I didn't know about (or consider) the recommended order to play the Oracle games in until I got them on the 3DS VC back in the day and the tip I found online said to go Seasons first then Ages so I've stuck with that.  It works fine. 

Plain old Roc's feather is superior to that janky cape and I'm not going to miss Subrosia so I reckon Ages is an improvement over Seasons anyway. 

44 minutes ago, nekunando said:

Always kinda wondered how different they might have been given Capcom's involvement but never curious enough to give them a go!

Other than the disappearing blocks in a sidescrolling section in Seasons and the final boss sprite there isn't much Capcomness I've ever noticed.

Timed and precision jumping doesn't really work as well when it's not Mega Man though.

Spoiler

 

29 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

To be fair, Ages is notably more difficult than Seasons.  I wouldn't personally recommend playing Ages first on your first-time playthrough (on a second one though? Sure, play Ages first and bask in the glory of the unlockable Roc's Cape & Hyper Slingshot!)

Worth noting that all the staff that worked on both Oracles games (and eventually Four Swords & Minish Cap) ended up joining Nintendo EAD when Flagship was closed down; and now head the Zelda series proper (The rest of the Flagship staff joined HAL BTW).  So it's not that far removed from the other titles in the series really (though I do agree that both games do have a "fan game" sort of feel to them; especially considering how much they outright steal from other Zelda titles).

Wow, nelly. Keep your seeds in your pouch there, partner. No triple shots needed in this thread. You lads fetish for the cape and hyper slingshotting is disconcerting to read. 

Yeah, you can see that the random drop stupidity of the kinstones got started in the Oracle games. I looked it up after posting earlier and apparently some heart pieces are random to get in Oracle of Seasons too! Any wonder I've never come by them. Why did Nintendo greenlight that? No need!

11 minutes ago, Ike said:

They originally planned 3 games, but they realised the password system would be too complex. Personally I liked it because you got 2 new Zelda games at the same time, it wasn't like Pokemon where just a few things changed.

I like the games, but thank you! I have the same feeling.

The games originally started life as a Zelda 1 remake, before they eventually became what they are today. You can see evidence in Seasons (the first dungeon location on the map is the same, the dungeon boss is the same). Not sure if there are any references in Ages.

Ages has the Goron Dance, so that's automatically the worse version.

Yep, that's right, isn't it? I'm glad they opted to pull the plug on rearranging the Link's Awakening tileset a third time. The burnable bushes with grottos underneath are surely a holdover from the Zelda 1 beginnings, too.

Re: the fan-hack feel of it, like... these games were released so long after LA that there was no need for a c+p job. I wouldn't object to some tributes, and sure, there's only so much they could squeeze out of the GBC, but the LA re-usage always seemed excessive.