Demon's Souls (12th November 2020)

[Julius]

Digital Foundry deep dive. It's long. 

Very long 

[Julius]

Watched it last night and it's made me want to track down the Shadow of the Colossus one over the weekend, I really enjoyed watching it. 

And damn, I always somehow forget how crazy beautiful Shadow of the Colossus was. Mind you, I did play it on a standard PS4 with a HD TV...

...I think I need to play it again on PS5 

[Julius]

Early review scores looking really good right now, though I think it's a shame I think that Sony left it so late to send out copies for reviewers (1 or 2 days prior to release). Especially when you consider that it's a remake. 

Really looking forward to this, I'm expecting a lot of frustration and confusion, which I can't wait for! Think I'm planning on starting as a Knight, I know there are maybe some classes which might make it a bit easier...but I'm here to get my ass kicked 

[Ronnie]

How is this 70 quid on Amazon?

I thought game prices were going up by $10/£10, not 20 or 25!

Having played so much on Game Pass I'm really struggling to justify paying 60 quid on Sack Boy and 50 on Miles Morales. 70 is just ridiculous, especially for a remake, I don't care how good it looks.

[LazyBoy]

Hmm, I would like to see a comparison made with what those websites gave the original, especially as it seems the graphical overhaul seems to be the only change made (+a few minor tweaks). My suspicion would be an inflation of scores, partly because Souls games are cool now, and partly cause there isn't anything else out for the system yet.

[Julius]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

How is this 70 quid on Amazon?

I thought game prices were going up by $10/£10, not 20 or 25!

Having played so much on Game Pass I'm really struggling to justify paying 60 quid on Sack Boy and 50 on Miles Morales. 70 is just ridiculous, especially for a remake, I don't care how good it looks.

In terms of AAA game pricing, at RRP, it's a £15 bump (I think they were generally aiming for £54.99 previously). The reason it hasn't gone down £5 or so yet is because, seeing as we're at the start of a new gen, I think we're going to see retailers aiming for their new RRP mark for at least the next 6 months.

A shame, I agree (hey, I'd much rather that £15 be saved and go towards another game!), but it is what it is, different strokes and all that  plus, Bluepoint really do insane work with their remakes. For me, having not played the original (and now not having to experience it on PS3) and looking at how great the game looks, and how the audio and music sounds, I think it's justified, especially listening to interviews with Bluepoint and the great work they do. I'm still very surprised (in a positive way) when Shadow of the Colossus was released at a budget price in 2018, to be honest. 

The biggest surprise for me is seeing Miles Morales and Sackboy coming in at the same price or thereabouts (at least in terms of RRP) on PS4 as they do PS5. I get that it's because it comes with a free upgrade to the PS5 version, etc., but to be honest, if you're buying it for the purpose of playing it as a PS4 game, there's a mark-up there which doesn't make much sense to me, considering you'll end up playing the objectively worse off version. I mean, how is Sackboy on PS4 at £59.99 on Amazon at the moment, when I think The Last of Us Part II earlier this year was only £54.99? That's really weird to me. 

15 minutes ago, LazyBoy said:

Hmm, I would like to see a comparison made with what those websites gave the original, especially as it seems the graphical overhaul seems to be the only change made (+a few minor tweaks). My suspicion would be an inflation of scores, partly because Souls games are cool now, and partly cause there isn't anything else out for the system yet.

Yeah, next gen exclusive being available at launch and being a Souls game could both give it a sizeable boost; I'd rather it not be that way, but you're right. 

Again, one of those games which is way too long and gruelling an experience to rush out a review for in my opinion, they should have given reviewers more time. I've lost track of the number of times I've zoomed through a game, instinctively thought I loved it, and a few days later started questioning my experience a bit more and seeing a few more flaws, which I might not have noticed when first playing it. 

Just one of those things that comes with the territory for reviews I guess 

[Ronnie]

9 minutes ago, Julius said:

In terms of AAA game pricing, at RRP, it's a £15 bump (I think they were generally aiming for £54.99 previously). The reason it hasn't gone down £5 or so yet is because, seeing as we're at the start of a new gen, I think we're going to see retailers aiming for their new RRP mark for at least the next 6 months.

A shame, I agree (hey, I'd much rather that £15 be saved and go towards another game!), but it is what it is, different strokes and all that  plus, Bluepoint really do insane work with their remakes. For me, having not played the original (and now not having to experience it on PS3) and looking at how great the game looks, and how the audio and music sounds, I think it's justified, especially listening to interviews with Bluepoint and the great work they do. I'm still very surprised (in a positive way) when Shadow of the Colossus was released at a budget price in 2018, to be honest. 

The biggest surprise for me is seeing Miles Morales and Sackboy coming in at the same price or thereabouts (at least in terms of RRP) on PS4 as they do PS5. I get that it's because it comes with a free upgrade to the PS5 version, etc., but to be honest, if you're buying it for the purpose of playing it as a PS4 game, there's a mark-up there which doesn't make much sense to me, considering you'll end up playing the objectively worse off version. I mean, how is Sackboy on PS4 at £59.99 on Amazon at the moment, when I think The Last of Us Part II earlier this year was only £54.99? That's really weird to me. 

I always considered AAA games last gen to be £45 on Amazon (£60 in the digital stores), so to me I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a £25 increase at retail. Hopefully like you say it's a temporary thing.

Bluepoint do fantastic work but it still seems excessive.

I'm tempted to just wait a few months for the usual price plummet on PS/Xbox games and pick them up 50/75% off, but then I want something to play on my PS5 this weekend  I wish there was a huge must-play BOTW type game at launch.

[Julius]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I always considered AAA games last gen to be £45 on Amazon (£60 in the digital stores), so to me I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a £25 increase at retail. Hopefully like you say it's a temporary thing.

Bluepoint do fantastic work but it still seems excessive.

I'm tempted to just wait a few months for the usual price plummet on PS/Xbox games and pick them up 50/75% off, but then I want something to play on my PS5 this weekend  I wish there was a huge must-play BOTW type game at launch.

So did I to be honest, didn't even notice how wide the gap was between RRP and the prices listed on ShopTo, SimplyGames, Amazon, and others this gen for the longest time! 

Yeah, it's a weird one for some. I do think they've got their bases covered for a strongly received launch with a remake of a game which kicked off its own major following and practically its own subgenre in Demon's Souls, and you know Miles Morales is going to perform like crazy and is there as the system seller (short as it might end up being), but it does feel like something else - not necessarily exclusive, mind - was needed to fill that gap, but I can't put my figure on it. Though, of course, I'm personally really excited, I get it. 

I think it's why I'm really excited to play Astro's Playroom, of course we're getting Bugsnax for free with PS+ too, and I've only heard great things about The Pathless! And then Cyberpunk in a few weeks too, though you know that's going to be a bit of a mess at launch, and won't be making full use of next gen. Heard and read good things about Assassin's Creed Valhalla, though I'll be the first to admit that those games aren't my cup of tea, from the short time I've spent with them. 

Solid launch lineup in my eyes, but I get that it won't be to everyone's liking. Hopefully something like Ratchet & Clank isn't too far away for you! 

[Sheikah]

I always considered AAA games last gen to be £45 on Amazon (£60 in the digital stores), so to me I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a £25 increase at retail. Hopefully like you say it's a temporary thing.

Bluepoint do fantastic work but it still seems excessive.

I'm tempted to just wait a few months for the usual price plummet on PS/Xbox games and pick them up 50/75% off, but then I want something to play on my PS5 this weekend  I wish there was a huge must-play BOTW type game at launch.

Top end RRP is whatever the digital price at launch is. They're not just charging a lot more digitally for the hell of it, that's the actual RRP.

 

So it's actually a bump of £10 from the £60 top RRP of PS4 games.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

Top end RRP is whatever the digital price at launch is. They're not just charging a lot more digitally for the hell of it, that's the actual RRP.

So it's actually a bump of £10 from the £60 top RRP of PS4 games.

Yes I get that, but retail always went far lower than the RRP, averaging £45 on Amazon at release, so it's a big jump to 70. Like @Julius says, hopefully it's only temporary. 

[Sheikah]

Yes I get that, but retail always went far lower than the RRP, averaging £45 on Amazon at release, so it's a big jump to 70. Like [mention=20895]Julius[/mention] says, hopefully it's only temporary. 

But that just means the games won't be £70 in shops/online retailers before long either. We had the same thing at the start of the PS4 generation but people seem to have forgotten already. Games are expensive around launch because they know people want to buy games to play on their new system.

 

Did you see game prices at the PS4 launch? They were mostly RRP too.

[Ronnie]

11 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Did you see game prices at the PS4 launch? They were mostly RRP too.

I didn't have a PS4 at launch, took me a couple of years to get one, so I wasn't aware/had forgotten that retail prices start out at RRP

Edited November 16, 2020 by Ronnie

[Julius]

The Digital Foundry train never ends! Their review:

Think this will be the last thing I check out about the game before I boot it up after Astro's and Miles Morales. Looks absolutely fantastic, music sounds great, I can honestly say that I've never been so excited to get my ass handed to me 

[Goron_3]

Quite possibly the best ever launch game that wasn't a port, alongside Super Mario 64?

[bob]

Quite possibly the best ever launch game that wasn't a port, alongside Super Mario 64?

Super Monkey Ball?

[Sheikah]

3 minutes ago, bob said:

5 hours ago, Goron_3 said:

Quite possibly the best ever launch game that wasn't a port, alongside Super Mario 64?

Super Monkey Ball?

Would you believe it, apparently the Gamecube game is a port of the arcade cabinet version that released in 2001.

 

Hell of a joystick, that.

 

[EEVILMURRAY]

This makes me want to bang out the original special edition I has on PS3, barely even touched it. I got killed by one of the first enemies then gave up, even using the FAQ it bloody came with.

[LazyBoy]

On 11/18/2020 at 3:52 PM, Goron_3 said:

Quite possibly the best ever launch game that wasn't a port, alongside Super Mario 64?

I get that its a 'remaster', but to put it on SM64's level is a bit of stretch. Good question though. Does it have to be the Japanese launch?

[Ronnie]

35 minutes ago, LazyBoy said:

I get that its a 'remaster', but to put it on SM64's level is a bit of stretch. Good question though. Does it have to be the Japanese launch?

I also wouldn't consider Breath of the Wild a port (if that was the suggestion above). It's a brand new game that released day 1 on a new system, If we're talking best ever launch games, that'd be up there alongside Mario 64. 

[Goron_3]

46 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I also wouldn't consider Breath of the Wild a port (if that was the suggestion above). It's a brand new game that released day 1 on a new system, If we're talking best ever launch games, that'd be up there alongside Mario 64. 

It still wasn't an exclusive. Call it cross-gen or whatever.

@LazyBoy I certainly wouldn't call this a remaster. It's a full on remake, in the same way the SotC remake was different to the remaster that appeared on PS3. SM64 was certainly more revolutionary though. I'm not sure if we'll ever get a game that defines the boundaries of a new generation quite like SM64 did.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Goron_3

[Ronnie]

Fair enough but generally speaking, I think if you ask people what's been the best "launch game" ever, Mario 64, Tetris, Wii Sports and BOTW would get the most mentions. I can't speak for Demon Souls though, so maybe that's there too now.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Ronnie

[LazyBoy]

@Goron_3 this is probably already getting into a rather dull game of semantics, but for me Resi Evil 2 is a remake, in that they actually started from the beginning and made it again, reimaging how elements of the original might be done better (fixed camera v over the shoulder being the main one). Meanwhile everything about Demon's Souls mechanics has been copied straight over, even the bad elements like infinite backstabbing. The addition of a single mystery door that has beguiled the community since release is the exception that highlights this point.

Full disclosure, there is something that irks me about this release, so there's my bias up front. 

Also on great launch games - Rogue Squadron 2?

[Julius]

2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Fair enough but generally speaking, I think if you ask people what's been the best "launch game" ever, Mario 64, Tetris, Wii Sports and BOTW would get the most mentions. I can't speak for Demon Souls though, so maybe that's there too now.

Honestly, after this launch, I would add Astro's Playroom to that list too. I know most consider it a demo for the DualSense, but so what? For a pack-in, like Wii Sports, it has me completely hooked and demonstrates the controller's capabilities very effectively, it handles great, and is such a blast from beginning to end with its charm and abundance of references. I'm doing speed runs in ways I never imagined I would - not that I ever imagined myself doing speed run attempts for hours on end before today. It has me so hooked that I've had to uninstall the game, because I know I'd play it for another week and let it get in the way of priorities and other hobbies otherwise.

Then again, that doesn't sound too bad... 

As for Demon's Souls, haven't got around to playing it yet, hopefully will start it up in the next few days (I can see myself reinstalling Astro's tomorrow at the moment). Very curious to see how I'll get on with it having not played a From Software game before, but it's always nice to challenge myself and play new types of games, so I'm going to commit to it once I start. 

[LazyBoy]

On 11/22/2020 at 11:52 PM, Julius said:

As for Demon's Souls, haven't got around to playing it yet, hopefully will start it up in the next few days (I can see myself reinstalling Astro's tomorrow at the moment). Very curious to see how I'll get on with it having not played a From Software game before, but it's always nice to challenge myself and play new types of games, so I'm going to commit to it once I start. 

Well if you like it you get to play all the other Souls game in the order they were released (skip 2), which (again if you like the type of game) is a massive treat. The kind where I'm jealous I can't go through it again for the first time. 

[Esequiel]

On 16/11/2020 at 10:09 PM, Ronnie said:

Yes I get that, but retail always went far lower than the RRP, averaging £45 on Amazon at release, so it's a big jump to 70. Like @Julius says, hopefully it's only temporary. 

I came here to say this - I managed to get a PS5 yesterday. Went today to get a game but I am spoilt with game pass and can’t bring myself to pay £70 for a game even though I would like to try demon souls. May even get rid of the PS5 and wait for next year.