Xbox Series S | X Console Discussion

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Microsoft would do well to invest the time and money into developing exclusives

June 2018: Microsoft bought five studios to fix its Xbox game problem

Nov 2018: Microsoft buys two more video game studios

June 2019: Microsoft Acquires Double Fine Studios

March 2020: Microsoft says they have 15 First Party studios

They are.

They're also doing a hell of a lot of "For The Players" moves too, in addition to the above. That's a good thing.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ronnie

[Goron_3]

Microsoft are making the right moves, but worth keeping in mind that those studios won't have a game ready exclusively for next-gen for another 2-3 years at the earliest.

It's also going to be their first effort in each case. Sony's biggest advantage is that all of their teams are super efficient.

That said, as I've already mentioned in here, I'm definitely buying a next gen Xbox, even if it's a Lockhart and not the XSX. GamePass is too good to pass.

[Sheikah]

17 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

June 2018: Microsoft bought five studios to fix its Xbox game problem

Nov 2018: Microsoft buys two more video game studios

June 2019: Microsoft Acquires Double Fine Studios

March 2020: Microsoft says they have 15 First Party studios

They are.

They're also doing a hell of a lot of "For The Players" moves too, in addition to the above. That's a good thing.

That's fair enough, but I'm not particularly convinced that these studios will deliver on the same level as Sony's established studios who have already proven themselves. It's also hard to forget that Microsoft shut down a bunch of studios and games this generation - so there's no guarantee their games will all see the light of day.

I'm interested in your take on that image I posted though. Do you still think Sony are unwillingly getting left behind in terms of comprehensive BC, or just not interested because it's not that popular a feature?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

I don't hold out much hope that their studios will make games to rival Nintendo or Sony's output overnight either, but the point is they're trying, in addition to tons of other great moves outside of software. They're very easy to applaud. 

The 1:55 ratio between legacy games and current gen games sounds about right to me. I probably spend 50 times more hours playing new Switch games than NES/SNES games. 

Of course it's not going to sell Xbox's by itself (unlike incredible offerings like Game Pass), but it's another string to their bow. It's something people want, and Microsoft offers it to them. Good for them.

[Mandalore]

May 2020: Microsoft are still sitting on a load of unused Rare IPs.

[Sheikah]

I don't hold out much hope that their studios will make games to rival Nintendo or Sony's output overnight either, but the point is they're trying,

Unfortunately you get no points for trying in this game - they need to deliver the games this time or else they'll probably be handing it to Sony again this generation. Especially with the consoles seemingly being quite close - exclusives are going to make a big difference.

 

The 1:55 ratio between legacy games and current gen games sounds about right to me. I probably spend 50 times more hours playing new Switch games than NES/SNES games.Of course it's not going to sell Xbox's by itself (unlike incredible offerings like Game Pass), but it's another string to their bow. It's something people want, and Microsoft offers it to them. Good for them.

At the end of the day it's a niche feature that people think of favourably but in reality hardly utilise. It's a strange one because it's undoubtedly a "nice" thing to have, but I honestly can't say I would want Sony to focus on delivering PS1 and PS2 disc compatibility if it meant directing time and resources away from other projects.

 

On the subject of Game Pass - while it's a really good deal (while Microsoft continue to subsidise it), we haven't seen it shift the balance this generation. I'm not sure it will do what Microsoft want it to do.

[Ronnie]

I suspect half of PS4's install-base would happily jump ship if they can play FIFA or COD on a more attractive new-gen system, the types that don't care about The Last of Us or have any idea what Concrete Genie is. We shall see. Back on topic, Xbox has been making fantastic moves the last 4-5 years and are worth praising for it. We'll see if their first party line-up can match it. Fingers crossed, that's only a good thing.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

 

 

 

 

I suspect half of PS4's install-base would happily jump ship if they can play FIFA or COD on a more attractive new-gen system, the types that don't care about The Last of Us or have any idea what Concrete Genie is. We shall see.

I'll hold you to this because that sounds like one hell of a crazy prediction. [emoji14] Half of the PS4 install base to jump ship? [emoji33]

 

Xbox has never outsold PlayStation in any generation, for what it's worth. Xbox may as well not exist in Japan, and Europe has always very much been fortress PlayStation.

 

[Goron_3]

46 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I suspect half of PS4's install-base would happily jump ship if they can play FIFA or COD on a more attractive new-gen system, the types that don't care about The Last of Us or have any idea what Concrete Genie is. We shall see. Back on topic, Xbox has been making fantastic moves the last 4-5 years and are worth praising for it. We'll see if their first party line-up can match it. Fingers crossed, that's only a good thing.

Microsoft's main issue is that they never sell well anywhere other than the U.S. You mention CoD and FIFA, but even when MS were at their strongest (360), they were still comfortably outsold every year by the PS3, and that's despite Kinect bolstering their final year sales.

[Ronnie]

39 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I'll hold you to this because that sounds like one hell of a crazy prediction. Half of the PS4 install base to jump ship?

Never said half of them were going to jump ship.

I just suspect half (or at least a very big chunk of) the PS4 install-base are casual gamers who just bought a box so that they could play FIFA, COD and the like. The type who don't care about the Last of Us or have any idea what Horizon Zero Dawn is. PS4 had that big surge of sales at the start (thanks to often mentioned blunders from Xbox) so that dictated the rest of the gen, it was an avalanche with more and more casual players just picking the box their mates were on. And so I think the situation is more precarious that you would suggest and it'll come down to which is the more attractive proposition at launch. If they're pretty similar boxes at similar prices that play similar games then those casual gamers will just stick to what they know, but if Microsoft manage to really come out swinging, the casual crowd will happily jump ship without a second thought.

[Sheikah]

Never said half of them were going to jump ship.
I just suspect half (or at least a very big chunk of) the PS4 install-base are casual gamers who just bought a box so that they could play FIFA, COD and the like. The type who don't care about the Last of Us or have any idea what Horizon Zero Dawn is. PS4 had that big surge of sales at the start (thanks to often mentioned blunders from Xbox) so that dictated the rest of the gen, it was an avalanche with more and more casual players just picking the box their mates were on. And so I think the situation is more precarious that you would suggest and it'll come down to which is the more attractive proposition at launch. If they're pretty similar boxes at similar prices that play similar games then those casual gamers will just stick to what they know, but if Microsoft manage to really come out swinging, the casual crowd will happily jump ship without a second thought.

You said if the Series X were made to be more attractive to this casual crowd, you suspect half would jump ship. There is no way half would jump ship. Xbox is just not popular enough in a lot of territories, it never has been.

[Ronnie]

21 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

There is no way half would jump ship

You mean like what happened two generations ago?

Playstation 2 sales: 155 million
Xbox sales: 25 million

Playstation 3 sales: 87 million
Xbox 360 sales: 84 million

Sony blundered the PS3 launch, same as Microsoft did with the Xbox One. 

I know Xbox isn't a thing in Japan, obviously they've an uphill struggling because of that. And I never said "I think half the PS4 installbase are going to jump ship". I was suggesting that a big chunk of PS4 gamers are a lot more casual and have no brand allegiance and could easily move to another box if Xbox come out swinging the way the PS4 did. We shall see...

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ronnie

[Ashley]

2 hours ago, Mandalore said:

May 2020: Microsoft are still sitting on a load of unused Rare IPs.

With the Perfect Dark anniversary recently I've been wanting to play it but I'm not going to buy an Xbox just to do that so I'd appreciate if they let that go third party 😋

9 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

You mean like what happened two generations ago?

Playstation 2 sales: 155 million
Xbox sales: 25 million

Playstation 3 sales: 87 million
Xbox 360 sales: 84 million

Sony blundered the PS3 launch, same as Microsoft did with the Xbox One. 

I know Xbox isn't a thing in Japan, obviously they've an uphill struggling because of that. And I never said "I think half the PS4 installbase are going to jump ship". I was suggesting that a big chunk of PS4 gamers are a lot more casual and have no brand allegiance and could easily move to another box if Xbox come out swinging the way the PS4 did. We shall see...

 

There is no doubt the PS3 launch was awful and hurt them out of the gate a lot but the PS2 was particularly strong over it's lifetime it would have been difficult to keep that kind of momentum (but your point about a percent of gamers happy to move is valid). It's one of those difficult to repeat kind of things because of a confluence of timing, audience and market.

Actually the flow of the Wii, Wii U and Switch is similar to the PS2-4 (crazy highs, a significant dip, a rise again). Microsoft are kind of an outlier in that they had their biggest success in the middle of two less successful (by comparison), but the X may change that. 

All the hardware makers have had consoles do poorly compared to their predecessors potentially because of hubris from their success (PS3, One and N64... Maybe Wii U but I think that's more the market changing). It's an interesting similarity and it shows that even if the console is good (which they all were) there's a hell of a lot of factors at play and it's difficult to get lighting in a bottle twice. 

[Sheikah]

You mean like what happened two generations ago?

Playstation 2 sales: 155 million

Xbox sales: 25 million

Playstation 3 sales: 87 million

Xbox 360 sales: 84 million

Sony blundered the PS3 launch, same as Microsoft did with the Xbox One. 

I know Xbox isn't a thing in Japan, obviously they've an uphill struggling because of that. And I never said "I think half the PS4 installbase are going to jump ship". I was suggesting that a big chunk of PS4 gamers are a lot more casual and have no brand allegiance and could easily move to another box if Xbox come out swinging the way the PS4 did. We shall see...

 

You said that you could see half of PS4's install base switching to Xbox - that would then put Xbox in the lead. Xbox has never been in the lead by the end, because in all honesty there are too many territories that just won't touch it, or don't have much love for the brand.

Even when PS3 dropped the ball, like you said, it still went on to outsell the X360. I don't expect PS5 to drop the ball like that (especially given the architecture is similar to Series X), so I'm not expecting a seismic shift this time around. Backwards compatibility also makes it very easy to stick with your current platform. If I go out and buy a PS5 at launch, I can continue to play Overwatch with all my PlayStation friends, regardless of whether they also picked up a PS5 at launch or not. Whereas in the past it was very easy to switch systems, I feel like now there has to be something dramatic to make a lot of people want to switch.

One last thing - you talk about the casual crowd being all-important. Just to weigh in on this, take a look at the top selling PS4 games.

PlayStation exclusives make up 8 out of the top 10 selling games on the system. The top selling COD game on the PS4 (COD: WWII) in fact is only the 20th best selling game on the PS4. Obviously doesn't include sales from other platforms for these multiplatform games, but it shows of those who have a PS4, more are buying the exclusives than the so called casual titles.

 

Clearly then people like PlayStation exclusives - they're the top selling games on the system. When they come to buy the next generation console do you think a lot of them are going to gamble on the chance Xbox's new studios turn up something good instead of sticking with what they have? And throw away their friends list? To me this seems incredibly unlikely, like it would need a very severe cock up to bring about.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Mandalore]

I think both PlayStation and Xbox have their fair share of gamers who generally just buy the latest Call of Duty & FIFA. 

Completely anecdotal, but all the people I've encountered in work who just get those games and nothing else are all Xbox One gamers who previously had 360s. It's not just 'enthusiasts' who have brand loyalty.

[bob]

Sometimes when the current situation gets too much, and i want to cast my mind back to a simpler time, all i have to do is come into this thread and it's 2005 again!

Like the console flame wars never ended!

[Sheikah]

Sometimes when the current situation gets too much, and i want to cast my mind back to a simpler time, all i have to do is come into this thread and it's 2005 again!

Like the console flame wars never ended!

Hey now, there's nothing abusive or personal about the posting here. This topic is probably the most activity the forum has seen all month outside of the Animal Crossing topics. [emoji6]

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, bob said:

Sometimes when the current situation gets too much, and i want to cast my mind back to a simpler time, all i have to do is come into this thread and it's 2005 again!

Like the console flame wars never ended!

No credit whatsoever allowed towards Xbox on here, don't you know. Even when they offer something amazing like Game Pass, it's asterisked with the caveat "(while Microsoft continue to subsidise it)" or when their backwards compatibility offering is fantastic, it's met with "meh, they shouldn't have bothered because, stats" 

[Sheikah]

No credit whatsoever allowed towards Xbox on here, don't you know.

Hey, I said Microsoft will have the superior BC option and that Game Pass is a good deal. I'm sorry if the other things I said bothered you, but they're all true, and worth discussing in my opinion. The strategy these consoles are taking is fascinating in my opinion.

[Ronnie]

 

4 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I'm sorry if the other things I said bothered you, but they're all true.

You’re under the mistaken impression that anything you say bothers me.

(and that those things you say are true, but it’s pointless carrying on)

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

 

You’re under the mistaken impression that anything you say bothers me.

(and that those things you say are true, but it’s pointless carrying on)

Oh, I know what I say bothers you, otherwise you wouldn't always make these posts complaining about people being negative. [emoji4]

 

You're the kind of person that can't have a good time if anyone says anything negative about the thing you like.

[Fierce_LiNk]

@Ronnie and @Sheikah, for the sake of the thread and its readers, let's try not to make these comments and criticisms personal. 

 

[Sheikah]

[mention=4353]Ronnie[/mention] and [mention=2464]Sheikah[/mention], for the sake of the thread and its readers, let's try not to make these comments and criticisms personal. 

 

Totally agree, this has gotten off topic. I'm really here for the speculation. Come next Thursday these topics are going to be interesting. [emoji14]

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

5 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Totally agree, this has gotten off topic. I'm really here for the speculation. Come next Thursday these topics are going to be interesting.

 

I can't see myself really owning more than one system these days. In the last generation and the one before it, I could see that there was a greater need. But, these days, I don't really see a need to own both an Xbox and PS unless somebody is desperate to play all of the exclusives or if that is somebody's main form of hobby. It's close to a grand if you want to buy both systems next generation...so that's a lot of money to dedicate towards gaming, before you even factor in things like games, accessories/controllers, subscriptions, etc. 

That may change, though, depending on which games get announced/revealed and if there are suddenly more exclusives that appear on the Xbox. I'm also a bit of a sucker for a good deal, so we'll see. 

[Sheikah]

I can't see myself really owning more than one system these days. In the last generation and the one before it, I could see that there was a greater need. But, these days, I don't really see a need to own both an Xbox and PS unless somebody is desperate to play all of the exclusives or if that is somebody's main form of hobby. It's close to a grand if you want to buy both systems next generation...so that's a lot of money to dedicate towards gaming, before you even factor in things like games, accessories/controllers, subscriptions, etc. 

That may change, though, depending on which games get announced/revealed and if there are suddenly more exclusives that appear on the Xbox. I'm also a bit of a sucker for a good deal, so we'll see. 

Yeah it's become difficult to justify a purchase of two of these consoles (Switch excluded). Price, and the fact they have their own subscriptions and friends lists...and that they play a lot of the same games. You kind of pick the one that has the extra things you want over the other.