Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Goron_3]

24 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I don't think you can look at one example as evidence that one console manufacturer looks at new game design possibilities and the other doesn't, especially as Sony's first demonstration of the SSD was all about faster fast travel in Spider-Man. I'm also not sure the whole dimension swapping thing in Ratchet looks particularly fun, to me at least?

Has Microsoft's messaging been mixed? They've been very clear as far as I can tell, especially thing like backwards compatibility and how all their games on Game Pass etc.

It's not just one example though is it? Cerny made it clear during the tech talk that the SSD has been designed create new game design possibilities that go beyond what developers are forced to do. That, combined with what they've said and shown about Spiderman, Horizon and Rachet make it clear that they believe that PS5 games would not be possible on current gen.

Regarding Microsoft - they are putting out what is on paper the most powerful console ever made. They've then said that software will be cross generation, which is part of the reason why Infinite looked so disappointing. Since the negative response to last week's showcase they've begun removing references to software being played on current gen consoles (including the One S, the weakest of the lot) but if you've already designed your next gen software to be playable on current gen machines then surely it's a bit too late? It just seems...odd. The perception I'm getting is that Sony developers are the ones trying to design games that could not be possible before, whereas Microsoft want software that's scalable across hardware, with the Series X delivering higher fidelity graphics and frame rate.

 

[Sheikah]

50 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I don't think you can look at one example as evidence that one console manufacturer looks at new game design possibilities and the other doesn't, especially as Sony's first demonstration of the SSD was all about faster fast travel in Spider-Man. I'm also not sure the whole dimension swapping thing in Ratchet looks particularly fun, to me at least?

Has Microsoft's messaging been mixed? They've been very clear as far as I can tell, especially thing like backwards compatibility and how all their games on Game Pass etc.

I think Microsoft's messaging has been fairly muddled.

For example, Microsoft said that their new first party games would support Xbox One for the next 2 years. But as others have noticed, there's a good chance that this isn't the case after all. Either games are too far away (thus making this a bit of an empty boast), or games won't come out on Xbox One after all.

You've also got the fact that they're touting having the most powerful console, then showing a demo for a game with bad pop in (which therefore looks like it's not taking advantage of the SSD) that looks like a slightly spruced up Xbox One game, and certainly not making the case for buying the new system. Then just yesterday they're removing the "optimised for Xbox Series X" stickers from games, which, while they were ugly, this now means that you don't know which games are optimised at a glance.

Add to this that it wasn't clear at all if any games they recently showed were actually running on Xbox Series X (some were in fact shown on PC) and it's easy to be left confused as to why you'd want to buy a Series X within the first few years at least.

If we contrast this with Sony, they have made it very clear that it's a new generation and they're not holding back the potential of new games by making them compatible with older systems. And we can see evidence with that with Ratchet and Clank with its dimension shifting. There was a good article on the Series X recently by Oli Welsh at Eurogamer.

To quote him:

Quote

"It is hard to believe that, as a new console generation approaches, Microsoft is once again fluffing its lines. The hardware reveal went well - unsurprisingly, since it had been so carefully rehearsed with Xbox One X a couple of years previously. But we have yet to see anything that shows those impressive stats in action, and corporate strategy seems once again to be getting in the way of what players want to see and hear."

Edited August 4, 2020 by Sheikah

[Ashley]

I've not been paying too much attention to next gen stuff, just checking in on places like this primarily and granted I did watch that Sony thing from a few weeks ago but I can tell you Sony has a new console coming out and Microsoft has...4? There's so many labels/names for their products and they're all similar it does create a struggle to make it clear to someone not paying attention (like me) what is going on. I'm aware some of those names may just be branding things (like the "lighting cable") rather than SKUs. 

Sony's naming convention may be uninspired but it makes things clearer!

Just checked and obviously I didn't actually think there were 4 SKUs coming out but what I mean is the console is called Xbox Series X, which includes Xbox Series X Smart Delivery games from Xbox Game Studios (amongst others) and Xbox Game Pass. I think adding that to the fact it had a codename (which obviously is common but I think they forked in my head) and there was rumours about another or something? It's just a lot of phrases that sound the same. Maybe even the "series" part is making me think there's more, like there's going to be one for every letter! 

Curious if they end up with another Wii U situation where the name is similar enough to what is before that it causes confusion as to whether it's a new console or an add on. Doesn't help their history is Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and they're going for a "no generations" approach.

Or I'm just dumb I don't know. 

[Ronnie]

11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Just checked and obviously I didn't actually think there were 4 SKUs coming out but what I mean is the console is called Xbox Series X, which includes Xbox Series X Smart Delivery games from Xbox Game Studios (amongst others) and Xbox Game Pass. I think adding that to the fact it had a codename (which obviously is common but I think they forked in my head) and there was rumours about another or something? It's just a lot of phrases that sound the same. Maybe even the "series" part is making me think there's more, like there's going to be one for every letter! 

There's the Xbox Series X. One of the many features is Smart Delivery, and their in-house game devs are under the 'Xbox Game Studios' name (similar to 'Playstation Studios').

It's one SKU of console. There are reports that they will also be releasing a second, digital version for cheaper (similar to the second PS5 disk-less SKU, no idea what that's called), but that will also be a streaming box. Could be a big deal, we'll see.

Regardless, Xbox are selling an ecosystem, Playstation are selling a console.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Ronnie

[Will]

Microsoft’s naming for the Xbox consoles has definitely been one of the stupidest things in gaming over the last few generations. 

[Goafer]

24 minutes ago, will' said:

Microsoft’s naming for the Xbox consoles has definitely been one of the stupidest things in gaming over the last few generations. 

Yup. I wonder if it will have a similar issue to the WiiU, where the more casual audience will think it's a peripheral or at least not realise it's a whole new generation.

[Will]

4 hours ago, Goafer said:

Yup. I wonder if it will have a similar issue to the WiiU, where the more casual audience will think it's a peripheral or at least not realise it's a whole new generation.

I think for more casual people it absolutely will. As someone not particularly interested in Xbox it was only recently that I managed to work out which was the current generation and which is the new one. I’m still not entirely sure of all the derivatives and what each one does. With PlayStation just adding numbers it’s very easy to understand which is best. When you talk about Xbox 1 vs Xbox Series X there is nothing to suggest which one is which just from the name.

[Ashley]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

There's the Xbox Series X. One of the many features is Smart Delivery, and their in-house game devs are under the 'Xbox Game Studios' name (similar to 'Playstation Studios').

It's one SKU of console. There are reports that they will also be releasing a second, digital version for cheaper (similar to the second PS5 disk-less SKU, no idea what that's called), but that will also be a streaming box. Could be a big deal, we'll see.

Regardless, Xbox are selling an ecosystem, Playstation are selling a console.

Yeah once I looked it up I understood what those things were, but it was more just having heard those terms floating around in a contextless way before it muddied the water. 

The digital edition of the PlayStation 5 is called PlayStation 5 Digital Edition. 

[drahkon]

Some information (and lovely images) on PS5's accessories:

Check a look

Still annoyed that the DualSense doesn't have back buttons...if my Nacon Revolution Pro controller gets updated to work with the new console, I'll never use the DualSense. Back buttons are a game changer.

 

[Will]

What does a back button do that cross or circle don’t?

[Ronnie]

The PS5 controller looks so much more comfortable than the DS4. Really glad they went the Switch Pro/Xbox shape.

A bit weird that they would introduce a back button peripheral that clips on, and then not include that feature built into the Dual Sense.

[drahkon]

26 minutes ago, will' said:

What does a back button do that cross or circle don’t?

It's easier to press without taking the right thumb away from the analogue stick. It is a game changer for shooters

[Will]

1 hour ago, drahkon said:

It's easier to press without taking the right thumb away from the analogue stick. It is a game changer for shooters

Ah! I mis-read that as a back button, as in back and forward buttons.

Ignore me, I totally agree. It is weird they haven’t included it as standard with the Dual Sense.

[Happenstance]

19 minutes ago, will' said:

Ah! I mis-read that as a back button, as in back and forward buttons.

Ignore me, I totally agree. It is weird they haven’t included it as standard with the Dual Sense.

I wonder if it's to avoid putting off more casual users. I've definitely had family members look at regular controllers and complain there are too many buttons so this way they can offer "pro" controllers or add ons again.

[Will]

I’d say that’s a pretty good shout. Hardcore gamers will definitely shell out more money to have the best.

[Julius]

Following his recent mentions of big multiplatform games having deals with PlayStation which would include different levels of exclusivity, Imran Khan has posted this on ResetEra:

Quote

I don't like to come into threads where I am the subject because people are usually not polite and any appearance leads to 30 notifications asking "Where's the details, tho?"

But yes. Echoing what Matt said. There isn't a major third party out there Sony failed to approach asking what kind of deals they could work out. Some had content, some had games, some had content and games. It is not like Microsoft was not willing to offer, they just didn't want to pay the asking price, because Sony approached with pretty high numbers in the first place.

That "PlayStation Advantage" branding and "Console Exclusive" wording are both going to get a lot of use in the next few years.

Interesting times ahead, can't help but wonder what kind of deals PlayStation has lined up, and with whom, especially if they have reached out to all of the big players. Xbox would have been in trouble without this, but with? I appreciate that their strategy is different this time around, but if PlayStation do have exclusives from first and third parties - and/or exclusive events and characters locked onto the PlayStation versions of third party games - lined up to the extent that we're getting something exclusive or which objectively has more content than versions on other systems every month or so, Xbox Series X is going to be dead on arrival, and potentially much worse off than the One moving forwards. If it's true it reads less like PlayStation trying to not just compete, and more like trying to push Xbox out of console manufacturing altogether. It's a very aggressive strategy. 

Again, I think that's if this is true, and of course assuming that these big publishers have actually agreed to varying degrees of exclusivity with PlayStation. I doubt we'll be waiting much longer to find out more. 

For anyone wondering about PlayStation Advantage, it's the branding which has been used in the recent marketing blast for Avengers: 

Curious times ahead. We already know about Deathloop and Ghostwire, and in a few years I'm sure Final Fantasy VII Remake Pt. 2, but what else might join this list I wonder? The rumoured Resident Evil 4 Remake, Street Fighter VI, a Monster Hunter World sequel, Final Fantasy XVI, Persona 6 (which definitely wouldn't be surprising, but I'm sure PlayStation would want to lock it in n)? It's weird to me that they'd want to get timed exclusivity or similar deals for something like Final Fantasy XVI when clearly the numbers are historically in PlayStation's favour in sales relative to Xbox's for the franchise, and I imagine it's a similar situation for the others I've mentioned, so that's why I think a deal like that reads less like trying to bring new more users in, and more like trying to just stop Xbox in their tracks as they try to grow their audience of Japanese software. But then I'm sure there will be deals with games like FIFA, Call of Duty and GTA VI like there has been this generation, it's just difficult to imagine them going any further with that on the western developer side of things. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Julius

[Will]

He’s not really saying anything with that though. It’s obvious Sony will have a relationship with anyone capable of developing for PS5 and that those developers will either have content and/or games available to discuss as exclusives for the system. It would be more surprising if deals hadn’t been discussed.

I’m not saying he’s wrong, and I’d say it’s a safe bet that we’re going to see a lot of exclusive “stuff” during the launch period coming up. Just don’t believe everything a journalist who’s closest touch point to games companies is a (often 3rd party) PR guy representing the best interests of whatever they’re talking about that day.

[Julius]

Leaked photos and impressions of the DualSense have come out. 1560mAh battery.

Crazy that we're getting to the point where all the major hardware bullet points are doing the roads from actual manufacturing and testing of the product.

As for the battery, for reference, the old DualShock 4 had 800mAh, and the newer V2 model I believe has 1000mAh, whereas the Switch Pro Controller has 1300mAh. This coming in at 1560mAh has me hopeful that I'll finally be able to rely on one controller for a day-long gaming session, because at the moment I have an older DS4 and have to keep another one fully charged as backup when I get the chance for longer gaming sessions. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Julius

[drahkon]

27 minutes ago, Julius said:

at the moment I have an older DS4 and have to keep another one fully charged as backup when I get the chance for longer gaming sessions. 

Those must be some serious sessions I can usually play 8-10 hours with a fully charged DS4.

Edited August 12, 2020 by drahkon

[Happenstance]

Mine doesn’t last particularly long anymore but I just plug it in and carry on playing when it runs out.

[Ronnie]

Hooray, actually decent battery life on a Playstation controller! Though the improvement isn't as much as I would have liked. Still, baby steps...

It's baffling to me that they thought they could release the DS4 that lasts such a short time when the competition are getting 20 or 40 hours out of theirs. Mine last about 4 or so hours, maybe 6 at most.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Ronnie

[Julius]

14 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Those must be some serious sessions I can usually play 8-10 hours with a fully charged DS4.

Yeah they are definitely leaning to the more extreme side of most gamers when I do that I'm sure, with The Last of Us Part 2 and Final Fantasy VII Remake for example I booked time off for them so would get up nice and early, brew some tea, and dig into the games for most if not all of the day. It's not every game of course, and definitely not my usual playing style, but the last thing I want during these sessions is to be swapping to a different controller because my battery's dying. My DualShock 4's probably last 6 - 8 hours I'd say, but worth mentioning they are the older models. Talking about this makes me miss H-o-T, I'm sure he knows the struggle 

It's crazy to me because even my DualShock 3 has a longer lasting battery, I remember I got through both Mafia II and Metal Gear Solid 2 on one charge. Similarly for the Switch, though I admittedly don't use it as much as my PS4, I've put nearly 200 hours into my most played games and have only charged the Pro Controller 3 or 4 times since. 

It's not a problem for me, so I don't want to make it seem bigger than it is, but I would be very happy if we see at least a 15 - 20 hour battery life this time around. It's made that much more noticeable to me because I sink so much time into my PS4 compared to the other consoles I own, the last thing I - and PlayStation, I guess, purely from a numbers side of things - want is for me to have to put the controller on charge and stop playing, and sink time into something else. 

One of those where it's not something I hold against them, but would be happy if they improved upon 

[drahkon]

6 minutes ago, Julius said:

I would be very happy if we see at least a 15 - 20 hour battery life this time around

But why? I'm genuinely surprised why anybody would want that, or rather why it's necessary. Unless, of course, people regularly play for 15-20 hours in one session?
I get that maybe a 5-6 hour charge can get annoying, but everything over 10 seems overkill to me

 

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, drahkon said:

But why? I'm genuinely surprised why anybody would want that, or rather why it's necessary. Unless, of course, people regularly play for 15-20 hours in one session?
I get that maybe a 5-6 hour charge can get annoying, but everything over 10 seems overkill to me

You're surprised why people want a longer battery life on their electronics? 

[Julius]

19 minutes ago, drahkon said:

But why? I'm genuinely surprised why anybody would want that, or rather why it's necessary. Unless, of course, people regularly play for 15-20 hours in one session?
I get that maybe a 5-6 hour charge can get annoying, but everything over 10 seems overkill to me

 

For me it's less about the longer sessions and needing a backup controller for them, and more about needing to charge the controller on an almost daily basis. Again, it's a nitpick, but when I'm playing the PS4 I don't want to have to stop playing because I forgot to charge the controller last night, and from Sony's side of things, I'm sure they'd rather have us playing games on their platform. 

I don't buy into the Xbox vs PlayStation vs Nintendo console wars, because I think it's pointless and what everyone wants out of their console is different, but I do buy into the idea that they are competing for our time. If the battery running out interrupts a playing session, they've lost time that I could potentially be playing on their console. Of course it's down to each user to keep these things charged, but as someone who does make sure to charge their controller regularly, it can get a little grating. I'm not even looking for parity with the Xbox and Switch controllers, but I don't see any reason why PlayStation's controllers shouldn't be on the same level as their competitors. 

Same argument for longer battery life in smartphones. It's convenience if nothing else, which is a selling point. It's not especially bad, so like I said I don't hold it against them, but yeah, I'd like if the controller for the system I play the most could get by for longer on one charge. 

Again, it's not the end of the world, and I think PlayStation have bigger fish to fry, namely the handling of applications, how poorly the OS can run at times, and the PlayStation Store - latter definitely isn't specific to PlayStation, just think it's important going into next gen, especially with an all-digital console on the way, that they get it right. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Julius