sumo73 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) I'm not ashamed to say that the TRESemme bit killed me. Well played. This snap election just highlights how badly the UK needs a valuable opposition who will at least provide an alternative and try and fight against the party in power. Labour have not sorted themselves out at all and are just not ready for this snap election whatsoever. They are going to get annihilated. The Lib Dems will get some seats and will generally do ok, I feel. But, it won't be enough to stop a Tory landslide. With a strong government in charge there needs to be a strong opposition to keep them in shape, accountable and on their toes, I just don't see that right now sadly even before this decision was announced. In December 2016, Labour said that they would be ready for a snap election if the Tories wanted one well they have their wish. I'm sure in the next few months to come the polls with show a rise in support for Labour but I really think it won't be enough. Labour of course will blame the media but it's the message.....the message that Labour needs to get across to the voters beyond the Labour party membership. Where is that message in Scotland I wonder? I'm not a massive fan of extreme social justice or identity politics and that for me has inflected the political left by the views of a small yet very vocal minority which is damaging Labour and others. If Labour ignores the bread and butter issues which affect all of us regardless of who we are then it's a lost cause. The Lib Dems seem to have their second wind right now by pushing for a more pro EU stance on Brexit but it feels like for some they are ignoring what happened last year with the vote and what happened back in 2015. No matter how much the Lib Dems talk they will just recover from the mess that was the 2015 general election which almost wiped them out. The Lib Dems seem clueless that over 30% of their original voters voted Leave last year so by all means push for a more pro EU stance on Brexit like for example free trade but if they talk about wanting to rejoin the EU as it currently is, IMO that would be a mistake. I don't really see UKIP making too much progress during this election unless they can show up this current government with their plans to leave the EU. Oh and congratulations to the PM by giving the people of Northern Ireland an election in during ongoing talks regarding Stormont power sharing off the bat from last months assembly elections. I was for a very long time a Lib Dem voter but voted for Labour in 2015 and right now I'm have no clear idea who to vote for in June although it will probably be for Labour. The whole thing is in a mess. But what if the media are covering him with a bias? How does he overcome that? Please can you explain why Trump won last year when nearly all of the media was against him? One TV show in the states last year said Trump had a 5% chance of winning the US presidency. Here's the thing Labour's views like railway nationalisation seem to be popular with the voters amongst other Labour views but the voting public needs to get behind the party that is talking about it. Labour needs to stop the political in fighting and show party unity, stop Tony Blair from making any TV appearances for the next two months or at least stop being a back seat driver and most importantly get their message beyond the Labour party membership. No one really cares about groups like Progress, Momentum or the fact that Labour has the biggest political membership of any party in western Europe, it's all meaningless if you can't get your message out to the electorate, to the voters. Edited April 19, 2017 by sumo73
Agent Gibbs Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I was going to write a huge post, but it would be so similarto @sumo73's that theres little point Labour are too left leaning and ignoring their original core voters, if you read some sites they don't care because they are closeted racist conservative scum, that right there is the attitude of hardline left Momentum etc and its as utterly abhorrent as extreme right wing views, ignoring the middle ground is hurting Labour ! and for a part thats supposed to be on the left and all about being inclusive to anyone its hilarious (but as i've posted in other threads thats generally a problem with the left at the moment, they've become extremely militant and intolerant to alternate or even slightly differing views) Jeremy Corbyn is not a leader, he has lofty ideals and is better off as a policy man, a cabinet member or a front bencher, he doesn't have the leadership skills and speaking skills to be the leader of a party I've got to hand it to May this is a shrewd (in a dark sense) move, the opposition parties have no hope, in scotland the SNP are loosing popularity so may have a worse election result, thus reducing the threat of an independence vote - its a safe election. And as per that post of Kav's its awful, we are choosing a megolomanic over someone who means well. It just highlights the plight of British politics, opposition parties have floundered since either the coaliton or the 2015 elections and nothing seems to be getting better I fear the day the tories inevitably win as it will be taking old yella out back to the other parties
Charlie Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 In April May calls June election. I don't like how much stick politicians get for so called 'u-turns'. I actually think that it shows that our leaders can react to new information and then act based on that, even if it means going against what they said previously. It's an admirable trait and I'm glad our leader has it. Now in this specific case, is there any need for an Election? I think not and this is the exact reason we have a Fixed Terms Act. If I were Corbyn I'd be getting out the whip and telling them not to vote for it. He'll obviously be worried that denying them the election will show that Labour think they can't win. Clearly they can't and everyone knows that already so there isn't much to lose. Spurt out some party line that they respect the result of the previous election that was only 2 years ago and the Fixed Term Act was brought in for a reason. Common thing I've read up here is that "Now is not the time" in regards to the IndyRef2. Clearly this is different as the SNP are asking for it in 2 years time rather than 6 weeks time. I imagine that May would gladly give it to them in 6 weeks time. SNP would never ask for that as polls suggest they'd lose. Who I'll be voting for is a tricky one. A vote for SNP is a vote for independence in my eyes, regardless of what the SNP say. I don't want to vote for the Tories as I 100% disagree with Brexit. Labour and Lib Dem don't really have much of a chance of getting in ahead of SNP where I live. Our broken voting system needs fixing.
MoogleViper Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) I just hope that people actually listen to policies, what each Party's manifesto says and do a little research themselves on each of the leaders voting record. Here it is, people, the most unrealistic post on the forum. Please can you explain why Trump won last year when nearly all of the media was against him? One TV show in the states last year said Trump had a 5% chance of winning the US presidency. Because that suited his image. He was going for the anti-establishment vote. So the media being against him made him more popular. However he was still getting a lot of media attention, and they were talking about his policies. That's not the same for Corbyn. It was a similar thing with Brexit. The Leave campaign played the anti-establishment card, and plenty of idiots fell for it. Despite being run by some of the biggest career poliicians and hypocrites in existence, people actually bought it. Saying things like "we've had enough of experts" actually resonated well. Edited April 19, 2017 by MoogleViper Automerged Doublepost
sumo73 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Anyway....., I could have answered the original point but my post was already far too long and it was meant as a rhetorical point from Rummy's original question regarding bias against Corbyn so please understand that. I think if you can get your message out to the voters and you have their support then it won't matter what message the media is saying. The BBC yesterday said to the Labour leader something like 'Are you trying to become PM and if you lose will you resign?' Corbyn needs to be able to answer those questions successfully and not be led into a trap. Regardless, I'm not a Trump supporter (I am using him as an example) but for me he was able to use social media like twitter and bypass traditional media which was largely against him. He was able to reach out to the voters who had been ignored by others. Could Corbyn do the same? There are some parallels between the states and the UK and yes your points about the anti-establishment vote does resonate. Corbyn is by some definitions an anti establishment candidate especially when you compare him to more recent Labour leaders. In fact, the Independent newspaper in December last year stated that 'The Labour Party is “ramping up” preparations to relaunch Jeremy Corbyn as a leftwing populist figure in the new year as the party seeks to ride the anti-politics mood following Brexit'. It then further adds 'Senior party officials reportedly believe the Islington North MP's unpolished authenticity could gather support from the same anti-establishment sentiment that has heralded the popularity of the likes of Donald Trump and Nigel Farage, and believe this could bolster his chances in a potential early election'. (source - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-jeremy-corbyn-jon-trickett-left-wing-populist-anti-establishment-general-election-a7478516.html) I want to make it clear that Corbyn is not Trump (just in case my post is TL;DR) they just have a few elements which hold them as anti establishment in some people's eyes. Again The Independent article backs this statement up. However, if people feel that that political parties no longer represent them, they will look elsewhere. It's bluntly put but does sum things up a little- Edited January 31, 2021 by sumo73 earlier reply by other user not directed at me. edited years later...:/
dwarf Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 My Dad, who voted for Brexit, has been a long-time Labour voter but will probably abstain this year because he doesn't trust Corbyn. I told him we'd end up with the Tories if he did that. He said something to the effect of 'that's too bad', adding, 'Corbyn would only fuck everything up anyway.' He also said that he thought Brexit would be good for my future. I started raging internally at how patronising that was considering he knew my views on the issue. Then he followed that up with, '...but it won't be good for the next 10 years or so.' AS IN, IN THE PRIME OF MY LIFE, DAD?! I rage quit in real life (again, silently). But I don't tend to get vocal with him about politics any more. We don't need our relationship to get frostier than it is already.
sumo73 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 My Dad, who voted for Brexit, has been a long-time Labour voter but will probably abstain this year because he doesn't trust Corbyn. I told him we'd end up with the Tories if he did that. He said something to the effect of 'that's too bad', adding, 'Corbyn would only fuck everything up anyway.' He also said that he thought Brexit would be good for my future. I started raging internally at how patronising that was considering he knew my views on the issue. Then he followed that up with, '...but it won't be good for the next 10 years or so.' AS IN, IN THE PRIME OF MY LIFE, DAD?! I rage quit in real life (again, silently). But I don't tend to get vocal with him about politics any more. We don't need our relationship to get frostier than it is already. I've already spoke to my gf about how she will vote in June and it will be completely different to me but it doesn't bother me. We all should all try to respect each others opinions even if we might not agree with them. If we take the tribal politics out of people most of us would probably be a lot better off sometimes. The politicians of all parties do their best to wind us all up. People should be free to vote for whoever they want to vote for after all it's their vote. What gets me the most is that some people will already be tired of voting come June anyway, I don't expect high turnout. I've already read people saying a vote for the Tories/Labour/UKIP/Lib Dems... is a wasted vote, no not voting at all is a wasted vote.
dwarf Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) People should be free to vote for whoever they want to vote for after all it's their vote. What gets me the most is that some people will already be tired of voting come June anyway, I don't expect high turnout. I've already read people saying a vote for the Tories/Labour/UKIP/Lib Dems... is a wasted vote, no not voting at all is a wasted vote. Well it's funny you should mention because the twat in chief said as much recently. Theresa May last night accused the SNP of “wanting to pull the strings” of Jeremy Corbyn in her first campaign rally of the Election campaign. And she warned that a vote for Labour would be for a “weak and unstable coalition of chaos led by Jeremy Corbyn”. “Look at the parties alligning to prop [him] up”, she added. The Prime Minister said she wanted to run an “optimistic and positive campaign” No hint of irony whatsoever. Also love how implicit in that she highlights the shortcomings of FPtP but whenever the argument for PR comes up her colleagues just stick their fingers in their ears and shout 'naaah mate. Unstable governmnent.' Germany's unstable is it? Cameron played this card before too, but in relation to UKIP. Rotten campaigners both of them. Edited April 19, 2017 by dwarf
Choze Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Anyway, I'm not a Trump supporter (I am using him as an example) but for me he was able to use social media like twitter and bypass traditional media which was largely against him. He was able to reach out to the voters who had been ignored by others. Could Corbyn do the same? There are some parallels between the states and the UK and yes your points about the anti-establishment vote does resonate. Corbyn is by some definitions an anti establishment candidate especially when you compare him to more recent Labour leaders. Worth pointing out that Trump did listen very closely to PR advice and was fully in sync with the republican communication machine. He also bolstered his team over time when beating other Repub candidates. In comparison his opponents couldn't unify their own bases. Corbyn is very much the opposite of Trump and in many ways weaker than any of Trump's opponents when it comes to unifying his party. The primary issue this election is brexit and Corbyn still has nothing to say. I expect this to go well for May. The 'Good Brexit' alliance may be the best option against May but they do need Labour.
bob Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 The problem with Labour forming some sort of coalition with LD is that LD say they will overturn Brexit while Labour will go ahead with it. That would be a very difficult government to have.
Charlie Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 The problem with Labour forming some sort of coalition with LD is that LD say they will overturn Brexit while Labour will go ahead with it. That would be a very difficult government to have. Inb4 Lib Dems didn't care about that with tuition fees.
dwarf Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 If a Labour/Lib Dem coalition did happen it would mean we'd go through with Brexit, but the Lib Dems would have bargaining power to 'soften' it. But weirdly, Labour themselves want a soft Brexit anyway because most of their MPs are remainers.
bob Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 How to vote the Tories out. This website tells you who to vote for to get the Tories out in your area. Unless you want the Tories in, in which case vote for them.
Ashley Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 I'm grateful that I'm in a safe Labour seat and she voted against the party whip when it came to Article 50, which seems fair given our area was the second highest Remain vote (behind Gibraltar). Not that that stops the neighbouring festering piece of shit that is Kate Hoey.
Pestneb Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 next to no chance in my old area. I'm expat now, I understand that puts me in a tory safe seat as well.
dwarf Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Does anyone fancy making a voting intention thread? Haven't made a poll in ages and I'm scared.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 22, 2017 Author Posted April 22, 2017 Does anyone fancy making a voting intention thread? Haven't made a poll in ages and I'm scared. I'm nominating you to make it. Do eeeet! I'm currently living in a very Conservative area. They've pretty much got a stranglehold on this area. It's one of these locations where the residents will always vote Conservative, despite who their local MP is or who is the leader of the party or even what policies they have. I can't see that changing any time soon.
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 23, 2017 Author Posted April 23, 2017 Anyone else keeping up to date with the French Elections? Projected results have Macron and Le Pen as the two to go head-to-head in the run-off.
Pestneb Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Yup. I'm here. Not too happy with the prospect of Le Pen getting the presidency.
MoogleViper Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Just thinking back to the EU referendum poll on here that showed vast majority support for remain. Not sure we're a great litmus test. Shame.
Rummy Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Hoping Le Pen doesn't get it. I haven't followed too much of world politics but from what a friend was telling me she seems to be another one of these pop-up fascists we're seeing/hearing a bit more recently. I find the current global political climate both bizarre and interesting.
Agent Gibbs Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) I don't want LePenn to get it but there is an awful part of me that wants too see what would happen to Europe, mainly to shut up the smug french twats on Gaf who say good riddance to all the Brits In reality though i really don't want that, i'm considering France and Canada as my alternate living options should shit it the fan with Brexit Pie as always spot on Edited April 24, 2017 by Agent Gibbs
sumo73 Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Hoping Le Pen doesn't get it. I haven't followed too much of world politics but from what a friend was telling me she seems to be another one of these pop-up fascists we're seeing/hearing a bit more recently. I find the current global political climate both bizarre and interesting. It is the failure from some elements on the political left to enter rational discourse with others or to simply ignore situations which for me has opened up the mess that we are currently in. I don't think the Front National will win nor did I think the PVV would win last month in the Netherlands however the PVV are now the opposition party and I think the Front National will be the party of opposition in France. It's a horrible situation. Germany elections in September and I'm not too sure what will happen then.
bob Posted April 24, 2017 Posted April 24, 2017 Macron is about 30 points ahead of Le Pen, so it's unlikely she'll win, but it's scary that the NF will be the official opposition party.
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