Overwatch

[drahkon]

If you do decide to join us, expect lots of kicking off and finger pointing at random players when things don't go our way.

 

Oh, I am good at that, too

[Fierce_LiNk]

@Eenuh and D.Va are a match made in heaven. She's pretty good with that character.

 

I think I'm naturally better with someone like Orisa. Soldier 76 is pretty fun to use. I used Tracer a fair bit last night and thought she was a really fun character, too. I love her movement! I found that my results were varied with her, though. Need to improve!

[Choze]

This game just goes strength to strength popularity wise. Great game too.

[Daft]

Proud of this one, and since I'll likely never pull of something this good again, I wanted to share it on the thread (soz to everyone who's already seen it). This match was not going well and I figured sometimes the quickest way from point A to point B is a straight line...with some massive air curtsey of the enemy Junkrat.

 

[Choze]

Twitch Prime is offering a golden loot box. Guarantees a legendary.

[bob]

What the hell? I was kicked out of a game against AI for not having enough players?

[Rummy]

13 hours ago, bob said:

What the hell? I was kicked out of a game against AI for not having enough players?

Your opponents are AI but your teammates I do believe are not....

[bob]

Your opponents are AI but your teammates I do believe are not....

Oooooooh, I didn't realise that. I thought my team were acting really weirdly...

[Rummy]

3 hours ago, bob said:

Oooooooh, I didn't realise that. I thought my team were acting really weirdly...

Almost like robots?

[bob]

Well I kept getting the option at the end of the match to 'stay with my team', which I thought was weird, seeing as one team of bots would be the same as another. But I assumed they added it in, so it would be similar to when you actually were playing against humans...

[Fierce_LiNk]

What is the whole point of 'Overtime'? I feel it just artificially lengthens the game. Our team captured the point and were at 99% and in Overtime for what seemed like forever. Other team were on 24%but we eventually ended up losing the game/match. It can feel grossly unfair because we should have reached 100% in the allotted time. It's my only gripe with the game, but I actually hate the feature.

[Shorty]

18 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

What is the whole point of 'Overtime'? I feel it just artificially lengthens the game. Our team captured the point and were at 99% and in Overtime for what seemed like forever. Other team were on 24%but we eventually ended up losing the game/match. It can feel grossly unfair because we should have reached 100% in the allotted time. It's my only gripe with the game, but I actually hate the feature.

You're in overtime for as long as someone is touching the goal. The longer overtime goes on for, the quicker it drops off if the other team dies or gets knocked off the point. Also I think there's a limit at which overtime eventually just ends. If you can knock the enemies off the point a second before the game ends, there'll be no overtime.

I think that the point is that if a team's evenly matched, they shouldn't win at the end just because they took it first. Or something? The fact that the team managed to wrestle it from you at 99% without you knocking them off and then subsequently gain the last 76% without your team ever taking it again even for a second suggests they deserved the fighting chance! Usually it happens because their team finally switches up the approach to counter, and the team that was originally winning does not adjust accordingly.

I actually really like the overtime mechanic as a last chance for flipping the tables, as it brings an otherwise uncoordinated PuG in for one last concentrated push.

Here's a game with a couple of N-E folks from over a year ago where we had to hold the payload at overtime to win, all they had to do was knock me off (Lucio and Pharah serve this purpose well!) it and it would've been over ('scuse the average accuracy, I'm much better these days honest/was panicking):

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

I can see some of the benefits of it, but I still see it as something artificial that isn't really needed. We've had games in the past where we were defending, went into Overtime and still ended up winning. Obviously, there have also been games where we've benefitted from Overtime. But, on the odd occasion where you're winning, go into Overtime and then lose, it can feel greatly unfair. It's the first to 100% and my point is that we would have been the first to get to that had it not been for the mechanic. It's similar to the Bullet Bill in Mario Kart and shooting all the way from last place to crossing the line first. The game is already balanced enough with its variety of characters and how they each have their plusses and minuses, I don't feel that the game needs it.

[James]

1 hour ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

I can see some of the benefits of it, but I still see it as something artificial that isn't really needed. We've had games in the past where we were defending, went into Overtime and still ended up winning. Obviously, there have also been games where we've benefitted from Overtime. But, on the odd occasion where you're winning, go into Overtime and then lose, it can feel greatly unfair. It's the first to 100% and my point is that we would have been the first to get to that had it not been for the mechanic. It's similar to the Bullet Bill in Mario Kart and shooting all the way from last place to crossing the line first. The game is already balanced enough with its variety of characters and how they each have their plusses and minuses, I don't feel that the game needs it.

I always felt it just made it more exciting, especially if you were doing shit and then came in for the win in overtime.

[Fierce_LiNk]

18 minutes ago, James said:

I always felt it just made it more exciting, especially if you were doing shit and then came in for the win in overtime.

I've had moments where it can be exciting, but I also see it as frustrating in equal measure. Especially how Overtime can just potentially go on for aaaages.

I still like the game a lot and I never rage over it. Luckily the rest of the game is so good that it more than makes up for it.

[Sheikah]

It's to make sure the winners are the people who were really the best players that game. If they managed to get 100% and kill enough of you to stop you contesting then they did a better job than you who only got 100% without killing enough teammates to clear the point.

[Fierce_LiNk]

14 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

It's to make sure the winners are the people who were really the best players that game. If they managed to get 100% and kill enough of you to stop you contesting then they did a better job than you who only got 100% without killing enough teammates to clear the point.

That is hugely debatable. The winners aren't always the best players, e.g. when you're on a team with players who do very little, yet they are still on the winning team. That's a separate issue.

Without the Overtime feature, you'd have moments where you could end up with a different winning team. If Team A captured the point when the opposition (Team B) were at, say, 40% and then Team A went on to get 99%, why shouldn't they win? Team B will have had several chances to get the point back. The Overtime function just gives them an additional opportunity when, by all rights, they should have lost the game. Technically, Overtime is limitless and you could spend minutes at a time trying to fend off the opposition when the game has already been won. Imagine in football if the referee didn't blow the whistle until the 100th minute because the game was at 3-2 and the opposition had the ball in the penalty area. The opposing team had 90 minutes to win the game, why do they deserve more time?

In the grand scheme of things, I don't really play for any other reason other than for fun. I don't play the game religiously or for any E-Sport reasons or anything of that sort. But, I do find that this feature just puts a blemish on things. It just seems pretty needless and, like I've mentioned, quite artificial.

I'll still play it anyway because the rest of the game is fucking wonderful. But, I can't help but sigh whenever we go into Overtime, whether it works in our favour or against us.

[Sheikah]

The winners aren't the best players, just the players who play the objective the best.

 

You might be the best widowmaker in the world but if you're not on the objective to help take it or prevent the clock running out then your team loses.

 

It comes down to teamwork and your team besting the other team completely so that they can't contest the point. If they manage to do that to you but you can't do it to them then they have bested you in that respect and deserve to win.

 

The contesting feature also brings out teamwork and urgency at the last second in otherwise teamwork-incompetent (but individually skilled) players. It basically encourages teamwork, creates epic stories and ultimately makes for a better game.

 

 

[Fierce_LiNk]

47 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

The winners aren't the best players, just the players who play the objective the best.

 

You might be the best widowmaker in the world but if you're not on the objective to help take it or prevent the clock running out then your team loses.

 

It comes down to teamwork and your team besting the other team completely so that they can't contest the point. If they manage to do that to you but you can't do it to them then they have bested you in that respect and deserve to win.

 

The contesting feature also brings out teamwork and urgency at the last second in otherwise teamwork-incompetent (but individually skilled) players. It basically encourages teamwork, creates epic stories and ultimately makes for a better game.

 

 

I feel like that last part will always happen when you're playing a good game anyway. You're always going to get certain matches where the team don't work together or don't work towards the objective. We had that yesterday a few times when we played. That's the nature of online gaming. Sometimes you come across bad players, sometimes you come across a great team and it becomes an epic encounter.

Having the Overtime to manufacture those moments takes away a bit of the authenticity of it. I've already got tons of memories of last ditch attempts to defend the payload or to secure a point where Overtime doesn't come into play all that much and the game still feels great. I just feel like those moments should occur naturally and not be artificially imposed. I don't necessarily think it's makes for a completely better game to have the Overtime there. Would we miss it if it wasn't there? If the counter simply went from 99% to 100% and the round was over, would that be such a terrible thing? If the team is smart, they should be attempting to overthrow the occupiers anyway and should have been doing that during the match (which is mostly what happens anyway). You play to the objective. On the whole, I would have said that Overwatch is very, very good in this respect and the majority of its userbase do that. So, therefore, it doesn't need the Overtime.

I can see why some people like it and can also get why some are irritated by it. It's a part of the game, so I've accepted it.

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

I feel like that last part will always happen when you're playing a good game anyway. You're always going to get certain matches where the team don't work together or don't work towards the objective. We had that yesterday a few times when we played. That's the nature of online gaming. Sometimes you come across bad players, sometimes you come across a great team and it becomes an epic encounter.

Having the Overtime to manufacture those moments takes away a bit of the authenticity of it. I've already got tons of memories of last ditch attempts to defend the payload or to secure a point where Overtime doesn't come into play all that much and the game still feels great. I just feel like those moments should occur naturally and not be artificially imposed. I don't necessarily think it's makes for a completely better game to have the Overtime there. Would we miss it if it wasn't there? If the counter simply went from 99% to 100% and the round was over, would that be such a terrible thing? If the team is smart, they should be attempting to overthrow the occupiers anyway and should have been doing that during the match (which is mostly what happens anyway). You play to the objective. On the whole, I would have said that Overwatch is very, very good in this respect and the majority of its userbase do that. So, therefore, it doesn't need the Overtime.

I can see why some people like it and can also get why some are irritated by it. It's a part of the game, so I've accepted it.

Ultimately the game would be more flawed without overtime. 

Think of it this way - if there was no overtime and you have the point and get to 80% you could literally carry the last 20% by queuing up "invulnerable" (or very strong/evasive) characters:

- Mei with ice block

- Reaper with wraith form

- Zen ult

- Monkey with ult

- Sombra going invisible

You could sequentially queue up any number of those and just...hold the point. No attacking or besting your enemy, just watch the percentage tick up all the while knowing even if 6 of the enemy team are there they can't really do anything.

It would place all emphasis on getting the point in the first place. There would be no such thing as a last minute push if they have Mei, as you know the last 10 seconds or so probably won't even matter.

Put it this way, point capture gives and takes away. While you own the point, even when the enemy team are trying to capture it from you by standing on it, you're still gaining percentage. it's only when it gets to 99% that it starts to benefit them, but only if they're standing on it and trying to take it from you.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Sheikah

[Fierce_LiNk]

I understand what you're saying and the angle you're seeing it from. I still disagree with the point and purpose of Overtime, but I get what you're saying.

[Zell]

Control is my least favourite game type in Overwatch. I do enjoy it but I feel it's not as deep from a tactical perspective than Assault or Escort. Too often it descends into which team can brawl the best in team fights, or who gets the luckiest after ults have been triggered left, right and centre. It can also last ages in competitive where it's best of 5.

The only thing that annoys me about overtime is that stalling with Lucio or Tracer is a legitimate tactic and has on a lot of occasions made the difference. Last night for example, we were defending the first point of Hollywood and were doing pretty well, got it to overtime only for us being unable to kill off the enemy Tracer which allowed for their team to come back from spawn and eventually take it (along with their spawn advantage). They then managed to escort the payload to the very end, which is obviously very frustrating when you feel as if they didn't deserve that if could barely manage to capture the first point. On the flip side, it does show how the overtime mechanic keeps things competitive all the way to to end.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Good games yesterday, @Eenuh, @Sheikah and @Rummy. That game on Volskaya where we were defending the point for over 8 minutes or so was crazy.

[Shorty]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:32 PM, Zell said:

Control is my least favourite game type in Overwatch. I do enjoy it but I feel it's not as deep from a tactical perspective than Assault or Escort. Too often it descends into which team can brawl the best in team fights, or who gets the luckiest after ults have been triggered left, right and centre. It can also last ages in competitive where it's best of 5.

Control annoys me especially because of the length. Even in quick play if you're doing badly you know it's going to drag out for 2-4 rounds and it's not worth it. I don't really understand why it's best-of in QP at all to be honest. If anything, it's the game mode that least deserves to reward the sum of multiple rounds because unlike swapping the payload on Escort, for example, there's no reward for getting 99.9% of the way on attack even if you would've crushed them on defense.

[Rummy]

Tbh I'm not sure if you noticed but I wasn't playing too hard @Fierce_LiNk

Given me and Sheikah joined your group I felt a bit mean going too hard against the competition as they weren't very high level so was just trying to keep you up and supported mostly!

Having said that the Volskaya cap then took me by surprise so I did think considering that the final hold wasn't too bad given the length! They did have a good player or two trying to push in but it just demonstrates the power of grouping up rather than trickling in etc.

How're you finding the game so far? If you're gonna be playing it a bit more I'll be up for grouping up a bit more some time.

 

EDIT: Completely missed the posts since Monday; so seen a bit more of your thoughts on the game @Fierce_LiNk.

Sadly, I'm going to add to the overtime argument. Now it's slightly different for most of us in comparison to yourself, as we've seen the different iterations of the feature. I think as you play more and more Overwatch however you'll start to come to appreciate the Overtime feature and see where it's made a difference, and a fair difference too.

What if you're at 99.9% on point attacking and the clock hits 0? What if there's no opposition on point? Should you lose just because time ran out, despite at that moment in time technically winning the game?

So it goes into Overtime. Take from that, you get defended against, you lose 5 of your team and are the last person on point, there's 2 of the enemy left but you're a character that maybe has an advantage and can wipe them. Now again without a looseness/buffer in the overtime; despite you guys almost winning the match if you're forced to step off the cap area without the overtime buffer(to avoid fire etc) then it'd immediately end because you stepped a millimetre off - that too wouldn't feel very fair; especially to you if you're the last one holding it!

Also I've not seen it mentioned but iirc one big change that was made to Overtime a few months back is actually a spawning delay - before the defense team could keep rushing back to point iirc - now there's an increasingly added delay to each defense death's spawn if they haven't got numbers advantage on the point or something; so even Overtime itself they did try to balance out a bit. I can't recall the exact mechanic, but I think it's probably made Overtime even fairer now than it probably was before; so maybe we as the earlier adopters are a bit too spoilt to complain about it