UK Election 2015

[Serebii]

The electoral system is constructed to ensure things never change and a two party system prevails - not on the basis of the merits of each party, but on the basis that people vote for the one that will stop the one they don't like getting in!

 

When a party can gain the third highest number of votes, yet come away with 2 MPs, it shows that vast numbers of people are going unrepresented.

 

When people are voting Tory to STOP Labour getting in (and vice versa), so essentially a vast portion of the electorate doesn't vote for who they want to win, but to ensure the party they don't like loses - it's a broken system!

Indeed. Scotland is a prime example of that. Labour got 24.3% of the votes but only have 1 seat whereas the SNP got 50% of the vote and yet got everything except 2 places.

[Mr-Paul]

Here's to five more years of the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, people starving, having benefits cut, schools getting worse, the NHS becoming more and more privatised, Britain becoming even more cut off from the world, maybe even the end of our union, and despite what they say, the economy not getting any better! WHAT A WONDERFUL RESULT!

[nightwolf]

I'm beyond sad to wake up this morning to that result.

 

It completely disregards everything and I'm also sad to say that some people on my Facebook are really happy about it. Even though they are far beyond rich.

 

Perhaps moving out of Cambridge and the country is now a good idea, because I can't stand the idea of this place getting any worse than it is.

[Pestneb]

As for the personal allowance that always goes up every year doesn't it?

 

not necessarily, but the jump under this government was a lot larger than the usual incremental nudges that I have seen previously.

Tbh I think this term, assuming a majority, which is still only a very likely outcome not a fact (at time of typing), could be positive. With a majority the onus is entirely on the Tories, so there is no where to hide, no sacrificial Lib dems, so we can see the true colours and what they actually do. This election, in terms of libdems and tories both parties claimed ownership of popular policies and "we" made tough choices...

 

The main hope should be that the country as a whole react positively, and that the tories don't live up to the negative myths.. and perhaps live up to the positive ones.

 

I find it funny how both parties portray the other as an evil danger. As if there is an actual self destruct button that they might press in a fit of madness. Labour and Conservative are both terrible imo, but this whole "if you support this party you are eeeeeeeeeeevil" attitude is pretty disgusting in my opinion - and supporters from all parties seem to be guilty of it to varying degrees.

[Zechs Merquise]

Here's to five more years of the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, people starving, having benefits cut, schools getting worse, the NHS becoming more and more privatised, Britain becoming even more cut off from the world, maybe even the end of our union, and despite what they say, the economy not getting any better! WHAT A WONDERFUL RESULT!

 

I'm beyond sad to wake up this morning to that result.

 

It completely disregards everything and I'm also sad to say that some people on my Facebook are really happy about it. Even though they are far beyond rich.

 

Perhaps moving out of Cambridge and the country is now a good idea, because I can't stand the idea of this place getting any worse than it is.

 

Are you delusional?

 

The result would have been exactly the same whether Labour or the Tories had won it! Look at the personal wealth of the vast majority of MPs. They're all part of the Eton boys' club!

 

None of these people want to 'wipe of inequality', they are the inequality! They are part of a ruling elite who live a lifestyle that the vast majority of people could only dream of! They all have their snouts in the same trough!

 

It's like Manchester United playing Manchester United and when the score is 2-1, some fans are crying and some are rejoicing!

[Pestneb]

It's like being told before you go into the swimming pool that today you are only allowed to do backstroke. The rules are chosen by the party but the basics stay the same, work hard, look out for those around you. No party is going to magically improve life, no matter what they say.

[nightwolf]

Are you delusional?

 

The result would have been exactly the same whether Labour or the Tories had won it! Look at the personal wealth of the vast majority of MPs. They're all part of the Eton boys' club!

 

None of these people want to 'wipe of inequality', they are the inequality! They are part of a ruling elite who live a lifestyle that the vast majority of people could only dream of! They all have their snouts in the same trough!

 

It's like Manchester United playing Manchester United and when the score is 2-1, some fans are crying and some are rejoicing!

 

Of course. Although keep your damn insults to yourself. I'm quite sane of mind. Thank you.

 

This whole thing is the 'least worst of the bunch'. Except this time round we got exactly what everyone was complaining about barely a few weeks ago. Which is why I'm sad about it. Apparently this country had Stockholm syndrome.

[Pestneb]

Except this time round we got exactly what everyone was complaining about barely a few weeks ago.

 

In politics there tends to be a predominant view held in a social grouping. Often one view will be loudly proclaimed by a very confident individual, leading to opposing views not being communicated by less confident individuals (because most people are sane enough to value their friendships more than their political allegiance).

So many of your social group may well not be of your political persuasion, just they choose not to voice their political opinions (or they may go further and actually mimic your own) so as to avoid damaging their friendship with you...

 

I know there are many subjects and topics I avoid around certain friends, because they give me the impression that they are very intolerant of opposing views, and while I have no intention of losing a friend over those topics I also don't intend to relinquish my personal opinions and choices over a friendship.

[Mr-Paul]

Tax cuts are too appealing to the general public. Unfortunately, your wages won't rise, you won't be able to get a doctor's appointment, and if you do, you'll probably have to pay for it. Tax cuts - not necessarily a good thing.

 

Even if Labour made things a little bit better, it would have been progress. Better than the pile of crap we've got now.

[dazzybee]

Are you delusional?

 

The result would have been exactly the same whether Labour or the Tories had won it! Look at the personal wealth of the vast majority of MPs. They're all part of the Eton boys' club!

 

None of these people want to 'wipe of inequality', they are the inequality! They are part of a ruling elite who live a lifestyle that the vast majority of people could only dream of! They all have their snouts in the same trough!

 

It's like Manchester United playing Manchester United and when the score is 2-1, some fans are crying and some are rejoicing!

 

Although the general theme of both have problems I understsnd if not agree with fully. But they are very very different parties. What Tories did to the arts, communities, social, education and NHS shows there's a big difference between the two parties. Not perfect, it la oir are far FAR more aligned with my sensibilities than Tories.

 

And there's no alternative currently. Lib dems are getting what they deserve, greens are 2 parts great 98 parts bonkers. And UKIP.... Well. Luckily they have even less seats than last time even though they've never had so much support. I think that support will diminish now this hasn't worked how they hoped, but that's another issue.

 

I think it DOES show the system doesn't work, it isn't right, but we can start revolutionary thoughts when the Tories are out of power as it only plays into their hands. And now they'll sort the borders to help them further... Depressing.

[Dog-amoto]

Haha. Farage failed to win Thanet South.

 

Maybe some of the UKIP voters were unsure how to spell "X"

[Agent Gibbs]

I think the fear of an SNP coalition stopped a lot of Labour votes, pushing people into the realm of the Conservatives being the less worse choice

 

The most annoying thing for me with this election have been reactions from some people, the bloke sat next to me at work has never voted, he say's he has no interest in politics he just wants to do his job and go home (we are Council workers...government doesn't matter to the public sector does it...), he also lives in the staunch labour constituency of Morley and Outwood, Ed Ball's ward.

he comes in today

"i see the bloody conservatives have got Morley and Ed Balls it out, f ing hell"

 

He doesn't vote! HE DOESN'T VOTE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

 

Other election idiot highlights i've seen were along the lines of "i've never voted before but have now, but the party i voted for didn't win! this system is wrong! i'm never voting again"

 

Its reactions like those that both make me despair

[Zechs Merquise]

And UKIP.... Well. Luckily they have even less seats than last time even though they've never had so much support. I think that support will diminish now this hasn't worked how they hoped, but that's another issue.

 

Actually, this comment suggests you are part of the problem.

 

I believe around 3.5 million people voted UKIP, yet they are virtually unrecognised in Parliament. I believe they managed to get the third highest number of votes of any party yet have no representation.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with what UKIP stands for is irrelevant, it's about a fair system where people vote for what they believe in, not simply the most likely party to beat the party they dislike the most.

 

UKIP supporters - like the Green supporters - actually voted for a party they believed in. Yet have been rewarded with nothing for doing so, despite voting in great numbers.

 

If you want to reform the system and make it actually representative of the populace as a whole you need to break the current system and institute a proper form of Proportional Representation that makes it so everyone has a vote that counts!

[Jimbob]

People who don't vote (in my view) don't have a say in politics. You vote on who you believe would be the better candidate for the job, and if they don't win then that is that. I voted, and proud to say that. My area is strong labour, and always does seem pointless voting. However as i see it, even if the candidate you voted for doesn't win, but votes rise. Then they can see it as a victory

[dazzybee]

Actually, this comment suggests you are part of the problem.

 

I believe around 3.5 million people voted UKIP, yet they are virtually unrecognised in Parliament. I believe they managed to get the third highest number of votes of any party yet have no representation.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with what UKIP stands for is irrelevant, it's about a fair system where people vote for what they believe in, not simply the most likely party to beat the party they dislike the most.

 

UKIP supporters - like the Green supporters - actually voted for a party they believed in. Yet have been rewarded with nothing for doing so, despite voting in great numbers.

 

If you want to reform the system and make it actually representative of the populace as a whole you need to break the current system and institute a proper form of Proportional Representation that makes it so everyone has a vote that counts!

 

I wouldn't say I was considering I acknowledged that the system is broken, so why am I the problem?

 

Fact is though, this IS the system, and in this system the Tories are far far worse than Labour in creating a society that I believe in. And even in a better system - Greens, UKIP, Lib Dems are not a better alternative either.

 

But this is two different discussions, one the voting system. Two, what happened the previous 5 years, yesterday and as a result what will happen in the next 5 years. In all honesty this is my main concern.

[Zechs Merquise]

I wouldn't say I was considering I acknowledged that the system is broken, so why am I the problem?

 

You seem to be rejoicing that a party that has achieved 3.5 million votes has no representation. Which whether you agree with what they stand for or not, it is wrong.

 

I feel that parties like UKIP and the Greens got respectable votes and clearly have a reasonable mandate from the public with 3.5 million and 1.1 million votes respectively.

 

Yet it's all set up as a two horse race which I feel forces people into voting for parties they don't really agree with and helps keep any genuine change locked out of politics.

[Pestneb]

People who don't vote (in my view) don't have a say in politics. You vote on who you believe would be the better candidate for the job, and if they don't win then that is that. I voted, and proud to say that. My area is strong labour, and always does seem pointless voting. However as i see it, even if the candidate you voted for doesn't win, but votes rise. Then they can see it as a victory

 

I agree but only to an extent. If you are engaged and truly do not feel any candidate fits what would earn your vote, I think not voting is as valid stance a stance as spoiled or protest votes. I think they still have a say.. just not a right to complain about the result.

 

You seem to be rejoicing that a party that has achieved 3.5 million votes has no representation. Which whether you agree with what they stand for or not, it is wrong.

 

I feel that parties like UKIP and the Greens got respectable votes and clearly have a reasonable mandate from the public with 3.5 million and 1.1 million votes respectively.

 

Yet it's all set up as a two horse race which I feel forces people into voting for parties they don't really agree with and helps keep any genuine change locked out of politics.

 

The problem is that every system has it's own flaws, no system is perfect.

If you look at the system at constituency level I think it works just fine, the main issue is when parties tell the mp YOU voted for how to vote - MP's should be accountable only to their constituents. If they switch party that shouldn't trigger a by-election imo, because that put's parties in a position of power over their members- get kicked out of the party and you might get voted out by your constituents.

 

At national level... I think yes other solutions need to be considered, but choosing one that fixes the injustices of the current system without creating it's own is something that won't be easy.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Pestneb
Automerged Doublepost

[Eenuh]

Can the voting system be changed? Like, how would it ever come up that they would change it? How did the referendum for the Alternative Vote come about?

 

I think it should be a proportional representation system (which is what I am used to from Belgium, had never heard of tactical voting or wasted votes before this election). Even though I don't agree with UKIP for obvious reasons, it is unfair that people's votes mean nothing and their voices are not being heard. That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

 

If the system was different, you would probably see a lot of different votes as well, as people would finally feel that they can vote for the party they believe in, not just vote for a party just to keep the other party out etc...

[Mr-Paul]

Sadly, we won't get any voting reform in the next five years because the tories have a majority and will vote it down

 

It's what this country needs most. So many people are disenfranchised. But we won't get it. It makes me so sad.

[dazzybee]

You seem to be rejoicing that a party that has achieved 3.5 million votes has no representation. Which whether you agree with what they stand for or not, it is wrong.

 

I feel that parties like UKIP and the Greens got respectable votes and clearly have a reasonable mandate from the public with 3.5 million and 1.1 million votes respectively.

 

Yet it's all set up as a two horse race which I feel forces people into voting for parties they don't really agree with and helps keep any genuine change locked out of politics.

 

No, I agree that I think the system is broken. In the current system the results are borderline devastating. What concerns me is what is happening now, what will happen in the next 5 years, how much damage the tories will cause, that's my concern. Not how wrong the current system is. In all honesty it's the least of my concerns. Maybe I should think more long term but I can't. Not yet. If we had a better foundation I probably would.

Edited May 8, 2015 by dazzybee

[Eenuh]

Sadly, we won't get any voting reform in the next five years because the tories have a majority and will vote it down

 

It's what this country needs most. So many people are disenfranchised. But we won't get it. It makes me so sad.

 

That is why I think a one party system is so wrong and dangerous. One party will have a say in everything, they can do whatever they want. It just isn't right.

[Pestneb]

Can the voting system be changed? Like, how would it ever come up that they would change it? How did the referendum for the Alternative Vote come about?

 

I think it should be a proportional representation system (which is what I am used to from Belgium, had never heard of tactical voting or wasted votes before this election). Even though I don't agree with UKIP for obvious reasons, it is unfair that people's votes mean nothing and their voices are not being heard. That doesn't sound like democracy to me.

 

If the system was different, you would probably see a lot of different votes as well, as people would finally feel that they can vote for the party they believe in, not just vote for a party just to keep the other party out etc...

 

Our current system is misunderstood is the main issue. We don't vote for the party or prime minister, even though a large number (I'm not sure if it is a minority or a majority) vote as if they are.

 

We vote for a representative from our area to represent us in parliament. This part is fair - the candidate who has the greatest number of votes represents us in parliament.

 

making a theoretical situation with 3 constituencies and 3 parties

 

constituency 1: A = 35% B=34% C=31%

constituency 2: A = 34% B=33% C=33%

Constituency 3: A=0% B=93% C=7%

 

in our system all three constituencies get their representative through = 2 from party A, 1 from party B. In proportional though...

A = 69%

B= 160%

C = 71%

 

100 = 1 vote, surely... you can't have 1/2 seats. B has twice as many votes as either party A or party C. So surely they should take 2 seats. A and C almost have the same number of votes, so should have 1 each. but there are only 3 seats. So who loses the seat? C has more votes than A, so if A get 1 seat surely they should get a seat, but which one? no single constituency voted for them in a majority. If B get two seats (which seems fair, they have over twice the % of votes as A and C) which constituency gets the candidate they didn't vote for?

 

Obviously there are plenty of ways to get round that, I'm not saying PR is a lesser system, but it certainly isn't perfect and any system will have it's own flaws.

 

Sadly, we won't get any voting reform in the next five years because the tories have a majority and will vote it down

 

It's what this country needs most. So many people are disenfranchised. But we won't get it. It makes me so sad.

 

I think MP's answering to their party is the biggest issue with the current system. If an MP won't vote for their constituents then it makes a mockery of the system.

Also your voting duties don't begin and end with the election period, when you care about upcoming votes I would say it is even more important that you inform your MP of your views and what you hope to see them vote, ask them to justify why they perhaps didn't vote the way you would have liked and use that to inform the way you vote next time. Manifestos mean nothing compared to an MP's track record, and there's little point just observing, if you don't inform them that you liked this, disapproved of that, would have preferred them to make point x in such and such debate...then they are governing blind, and really have little (if any) justification for going against party policy. MP's don't know how you voted when you correspond with them (unless you inform them), and it is irrelevant, they are in place to represent their constituents, and as constituents it is our civic duty to hold them accountable at elections. I hope that the MP's who came to power last night did so for the right reasons and that they will all serve their communities to the best of their abilities.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Pestneb

[Daft]

What a mess. But I can't say it was that unexpected. Honestly, I was surprised that Labour were so close to the Tories in the polls leading up to the election. Labour were completely uninspiring - their manifesto might as well have been, 'We're the lesser of two evils.' And somehow, at the same time, I have no idea how anyone could vote Tory.

 

I pray to God Labour sort their shit out.

[Pestneb]

That is why I think a one party system is so wrong and dangerous. One party will have a say in everything, they can do whatever they want. It just isn't right.

 

It would be wrong and dangerous, which is why we don't have such a system.

MP's are free to vote as they choose, they aren't mindless and shouldn't be allowed to hide behind a party. Keep an eye on how your MP votes (there are public registers that track this information) and hold them accountable, make them justify their votes and let them know how you feel about those votes - when you approve or disapprove strongly.

 

Say DC puts a proposal forward.

If 200 conservatives vote for, but the rest against, labour/SNP/LD MPs can still get it through, so long as 126 of them vote for.

 

Although I doubt that scenario is likely to happen, more likely that they would join the conservative rebels in blocking proposals

[Eenuh]

MP's are free to vote as they choose, they aren't mindless and shouldn't be allowed to hide behind a party. Keep an eye on how your MP votes (there are public registers that track this information) and hold them accountable, make them justify their votes and let them know how you feel about those votes - when you approve or disapprove strongly.

 

Well I am not even allowed to vote in this country so it doesn't matter what I think or whether or not I approve of an MP's actions. :P

 

I know I disagree with some of the current MP's ideas, but even if I told him about it, that is not going to change his views (as I have no say in anything).