Hero-of-Time Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 Unfortunately, that attitude with publishers has all but destroyed quality control and we end up with broken games with the mindset of "Oh they'll fix it later" which is a terrible thing This is probably my biggest gripe with this generation of games. It happened a little bit last gen but it's rampant this gen. A lot of the time if you buy a game on day one you are essentially a beta tester. Rather than doing a thorough check themselves, developers/publishers ship the game and then wait for peoples feedback or complaints before fixing stuff.
Serebii Posted December 6, 2016 Author Posted December 6, 2016 This is probably my biggest gripe with this generation of games. It happened a little bit last gen but it's rampant this gen. A lot of the time if you buy a game on day one you are essentially a beta tester. Rather than doing a thorough check themselves, developers/publishers ship the game and then wait for peoples feedback or complaints before fixing stuff. Even Nintendo seem to be slipping into that mindset. Pokémon Sun & Moon has a high amount of glitches that could easily have been spotted if they had properly tested it.
Ashley Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 Unfortunately as games become more complex the ability to "properly" (presumably meaning "thoroughly") test them become less and less possible. I mean for pete's sake there's over 700 Pokémon, hundreds of moves, several hardware configurations, a dozen languages with thousands of lines of text etc etc etc I think we should just be grateful it is easier than ever to fix any problems and Nintendo seem to do so swiftly. Sure, in an ideal world all of these will be squashed during QA but that's also the world where consoles are £100, a new game is released every week and there was a damn Snap sequel already There's just way too many moving parts to expect perfection, especially when games that used to be simpler never got it anyway. Bugs have always existed and some were never found for years, but there was no way of fixing them at that point. It would be interesting to do some empirical research into looking at the correlation between a game's complexity over time and its amount of known bugs.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 I think a lot of developers need to reign it in a bit and take a look at what they can actually achieve with the time and budget that they have. I'm all for pushing the medium but not at the expense of broken games being constantly released. It's no surprise that open world games are the biggest offenders. It's all well and good creating these giant worlds to explore but if they are a buggy mess that needs constant patching, is it worth it in the long run? You have some developers releasing patches that actually make the base game run worse and then fail to communicate what went wrong or even fix the issues. A lot of them just bury their head in the sand and hope people will just accept it, which is a crazy thing to think, especially when you have the likes of Digial Foundry showing gamers just what a mess some products actually are. A mate of mine used to work for Ubisoft and he's told me many a story of how games were released broken or unfinished but got shipped with the mentality of that they could fix it later. It's a shocking way to treat a product many have worked on but I guess it is what it is.
Ronnie Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 A mate of mine used to work for Ubisoft and he's told me many a story of how games were released broken or unfinished but got shipped with the mentality of that they could fix it later. It's a shocking way to treat a product many have worked on but I guess it is what it is. Perfect example with Watch Dogs 2, the majority of the online component simply didn't work at launch, with a message on the main menu saying they were trying to fix it.
Grazza Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 Wind Waker was rushed and that's one of the greatest Zelda games ever made. Good point. I had forgotten about that, but it's infamous for it, really. Anyway, I really think @Josh64 nailed it with the point he made on the last page. What's happening with BotW is basically like waiting for a port to completely different architecture.
liger05 Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/12/report-nintendo-switch-dock-increases-performance-not-via-extra-hardware/ Hey all, it has been a while.We have recently learned through a source at Nintendo connected to the organisation of an upcoming hands on press event that the Nintendo Switch Dock does increase the performance of the handheld, but not due to any additional processing in the dock. When the system is connected to the dock by USB-C, the system’s components will run at a higher clock speed to facilitate 1080p resolutions on the TV. Both video and power will be transfered over USB-C when docked. Plugging the system into the dock will also activate a small additional fan to help with cooling when run at that higher clock speed. This fan is in the rear of the dock, and there is a gap in the back of the dock to allow the system’s inbuilt fans to vent when docked. The dock is incredibly light weight and, while it does play a part in increasing system performance on the TV, it is designed to be cheap to produce. The intention is that some time after launch additional docks will be sold to place in differing rooms if you have multiple TVs. Nintendo’s January 13th 2017 reveal events will feature near retail level hardware. Each title will be locked to playing one game demo, but press will be free to take the systems to a separate area of the event to play on sofas rather than the TV. When returning to TVs, they will not be required to return the system to the same dock it started at. The event will be held in a large number of small sessions, each with a minimal number of press in attendance to ensure hardware is kept track of. UK Press are required to RSVP for the event by 11:59PM December 8th 2016. The location of the reveal event has not been made known to press. Let’s Play Video Games were not amongst the outlets invited to this event. They did not respond to our request for an invite to the event when we learned invites had been sent out. Nintendo getting ruthless but the leaks continue Could buy docks for friends houses which is pretty cool. Edited December 6, 2016 by liger05
Hero-of-Time Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Nintendo getting ruthless but the leaks continue Nintendo continue to be like a child and throw their toys out of the pram. Shocking that LPVG are seemingly getting punished for doing their job. Good on LPVG for still reporting their findings. EDIT: According to one of our sources, From Software has Dark Souls 3 running on the Nintendo Switch with a level of performance they are happy with. They have not committed to releasing it yet, but discussions internally at the company have discussed the financial viability of re releasing the main three Dark Souls titles on the Switch with the DLC bundled with them. Edited December 6, 2016 by Hero-of-Time
liger05 Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 Nintendo continue to be like a child and throw their toys out of the pram. Shocking that LPVG are seemingly getting punished for doing their job. Good on LPVG for still reporting their findings. EDIT: Only one source but man that's some big news about Dark Souls. Nintendo trying to play hardball with LPVG is laughable simply because it does nothing to stop them leaking the leaks they get.
Dufniall Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Hey all, it has been a while.We have recently learned through a source at Nintendo connected to the organisation of an upcoming hands on press event that the Nintendo Switch Dock does increase the performance of the handheld, but not due to any additional processing in the dock. When the system is connected to the dock by USB-C, the system’s components will run at a higher clock speed to facilitate 1080p resolutions on the TV. Both video and power will be transfered over USB-C when docked. Plugging the system into the dock will also activate a small additional fan to help with cooling when run at that higher clock speed. This fan is in the rear of the dock, and there is a gap in the back of the dock to allow the system’s inbuilt fans to vent when docked. I figured this would be the chosen option at the current suggested SRP. Either they improve the TV output by hardware acceleration like with an additional APU in the dock, but that would be costly. The other option is this. Plugged into the power thus no need to be power conservative since it is not running on battery. So the processor can clock up but needs extra cooling, hence the fan. Being able to buy extra docks at a cheap price is a clever move, but it needs to be like Google Chromecast cheap. Edited December 6, 2016 by Vileplume2000
killthenet Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Would be fantastic if From Software released any Dark Souls game on the Switch, but I think they would be better off releasing all three games in a single package for the system, a collection has a much higher chance of being a success than a succession of individual releases, especially if Switch were the only system it was released for. Can't see that being the case in the long term as people have been clamouring for a Dark Souls 1 remaster for a long time, but if they had a timed exclusivity deal for a trilogy collection then that, alongside the portability, would be a huge selling point for the system. That's exactly what I expected from the dock, basically cutting out all power saving tech and allowing it to run at full power. Edited December 6, 2016 by killthenet
Ronnie Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 Nintendo are childish for not welcoming outlets who leak confidential info with open arms, eh?? Nintendo trying to play hardball with LPVG is laughable simply because it does nothing to stop them leaking the leaks they get. No, but it discourages others from doing the same. It's not laughable, it makes sense and every single other company out there would do similar.
liger05 Posted December 6, 2016 Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Nintendo are childish for not welcoming outlets who leak confidential info with open arms, eh?? No, but it discourages others from doing the same. It's not laughable, it makes sense and every single other company out there would do similar. Maybe Nintendo should be looking internally to stop the leaks getting out. You have it the wrong way round, LVPG are not leaking confidential information, people at Nintendo are leaking confidential information. LVPG only have a story if Nintendo sources give them one. They have a problem and pinning it on LVPG is childish. If a civil servant leaks governmental policy to the Sunday times the government don't take away the times press privileges as that's not how the one deals with the press. It is completely counter productive and does nothing to address the actual problem which is the inside leak. We should celebrate the fact that LVPG do not go against there journalistic values and stop printing switch news just so they can attend a Nintendo press event or recieve games to review. That would be far worse!!! Pulling there press privileges does nothing to stop the leaks so what is the point. Nintendo gain what exactly? A inside high five all around for being a bully to the little guy. Edited December 7, 2016 by liger05
Ronnie Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 A bully to the little guy? Hardly. Maybe Nintendo should be looking internally to stop the leaks getting out. You honestly don't think they've tried? It's easier said than done. Not welcoming publications who report confidential info with open arms is a start to clamping down on things like this, if it puts others off doing similar. Obviously it's not a perfect solution but it's something.
Debug Mode Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 A bully to the little guy? Hardly. Care to actually refute his point? Journalists do what journalists are supposed to do, bring us the news. The one doing the leaking is the one at fault with Nintendo as they're violating an NDA, a news outlet reporting on that leak is fulling their raison d'être.
Pestneb Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 To be fair, if a journalist has sources, has proven they are able to put out info without revealing their source by being sufficiently vague, then it's kinda smart of Nintendo to limit that journalists access to their staff. Leakers need someone safe to leak to, and press events are the best places for the connection between leak and journalist to be made. This isn't "petty" this is smart. As you guys said, they still have sources and can continue getting info from there, while other sites can go to these press events. I don't see a problem really. As for the government comparison.. that is a very different situation, at least in a democracy where people have a right to know what their elected officials are up to. I think you'll find they are censored even then, with requests not to publiush x or y, but to publish z. They aren't 100% free even in the most "open" society. And I am sure that in various ways they are rewarded for discretion with "leaks" being sent their way to give them an edge over the less acquiescent papers.
Hero-of-Time Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Care to actually refute his point? Journalists do what journalists are supposed to do, bring us the news. The one doing the leaking is the one at fault with Nintendo as they're violating an NDA, a news outlet reporting on that leak is fulling their raison d'être. Exactly. I remember at this years E3 Microsoft had practically their entire lineup leaked before hand. Did they go after those who leaked it? No. Phil Spencer and co. realized they were the ones to blame and instead just released a funny tweet with this kinda of icon . Many, myself included, said this exact thing would happen. The longer Nintendo waited to deliver substantial news about the Switch the more stuff would leak out. We live in an age where information is shared freely and an enormous amount of it is at our fingertips. To try and keep something quiet for so long is a very hard thing to do and probably a losing battle. I'm not saying Nintendo should release the info sooner due to these leaks, more that they need to understand that they can't control everything, especially in the age of the internet. Nintendo are still better than most at keeping secrets but the Nintendo Ninjas ain't what they used to be.
Ashley Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 I like that within a page we've gone from "games shouldn't have bugs" to "leaks are hard to control" To be fair, if a journalist has sources, has proven they are able to put out info without revealing their source by being sufficiently vague, then it's kinda smart of Nintendo to limit that journalists access to their staff. Leakers need someone safe to leak to, and press events are the best places for the connection between leak and journalist to be made.This isn't "petty" this is smart. To be fair this particular event you turn up at an alloted time, play and leave. Wouldn't allow you to make contacts. If anything industry shows like E3 are better for that and the worst Nintendo could do is ban them from their booth (and party? Never heard of them having one) Stopping one site isn't going to stop it happening though. It takes one to report and others to report on that for the information to get out.
Serebii Posted December 7, 2016 Author Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Companies shrug off leaks all the time. It's just the level in which Laura Dale has leaked that has pissed them off. You can't expect a company to give you free stuff and trips if you're going to fucking reveal ALL their insider secrets. Yes, it may be doing their job, but there is a limit to the amount any company can take and all gaming companies would do what Nintendo are doing if they had leaks of that scale published by someone. Be fair. It's not them throwing their "toys out the pram", it's them getting pissed off that their confidential material has leaked on such a scale. From what I have been told, they are clamping down even more with their staff as well so it's not them punishing the journalist and not finding the leak. (Yes I realise the irony that someone leaked to me that they're clamping down on leaks) If anything, I'd say that LPVG are being the childish ones. Crying about not being invited to the event and leaking stuff to get back at them. It's childish, and the way Laura Dale said she'll sneak in and demands they play nice is unprofessional. You can only push a company so far, and the "they're just doing their job" does not excuse the mass release of confidential information. Come on. LPVG pushed their luck and the company bit back. Edited December 7, 2016 by Serebii
Rummy Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) I figured this would be the chosen option at the current suggested SRP. Either they improve the TV output by hardware acceleration like with an additional APU in the dock, but that would be costly. The other option is this. Plugged into the power thus no need to be power conservative since it is not running on battery. So the processor can clock up but needs extra cooling, hence the fan. Being able to buy extra docks at a cheap price is a clever move, but it needs to be like Google Chromecast cheap. Yeah £20-40 as opposed to something more £40-60. I'd definitely be able to convince a mate or two to consider a dock, or maybe even a whole switch to go with it, at £30 or less for a dock. Just hope they've seriously stress tested this thing and we don't get any overheating/burnout sort of issues a year or two down the line. I like that within a page we've gone from "games shouldn't have bugs" to "leaks are hard to control" Hi, I see you're new here. Welcome to the forums! Yes, it may be doing their job, but there is a limit to the amount any company can take and all gaming companies would do what Nintendo are doing if they had leaks of that scale published by someone. Or no they wouldn't? Ofc what I could really use right now would be something like a post by @Hero\-of\-Time maybe like 2-3 posts ago that gives an exact parallel sort of example to help illustrate said point; but I'm probably plum out of luck on that front. Edited December 7, 2016 by Rummy
Hero-of-Time Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 So gaming journalists are supposed to just sit on any news they have in the fear of someone cutting them off? It reminds me of the various reviews scandals that have happened over the years, with publishers threatening sites if their games didn't score well. These companies are punishing those who are trying to do their job. The leaks have been coming for a while now and it seems to me that Nintendo haven't any idea where they are coming from and rather than find and stop the source they are hitting out on those that are dishing out the information. If all of this is annoying Nintendo then maybe they should take a long hard look at their inside infrastructure and how information is spread within the company and their 3rd party partners.
Rummy Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 If all of this is annoying Nintendo then maybe they should take a long hard look at their inside infrastructure and how information is spread within the company and their 3rd party partners. Even LESS information coming out from Nintendo? You're a madman, HoT!
Serebii Posted December 7, 2016 Author Posted December 7, 2016 So gaming journalists are supposed to just sit on any news they have in the fear of someone cutting them off? It reminds me of the various reviews scandals that have happened over the years, with publishers threatening sites if their games didn't score well. These companies are punishing those who are trying to do their job. The leaks have been coming for a while now and it seems to me that Nintendo haven't any idea where they are coming from and rather than find and stop the source they are hitting out on those that are dishing out the information. If all of this is annoying Nintendo then maybe they should take a long hard look at their inside infrastructure and how information is spread within the company and their 3rd party partners. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you leak things on such a scale, there will be repercussions. As I said, they let leaks slide for the most part, it's just the scale of LPVG's leaks has really pissed them off.
Blade Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 So gaming journalists are supposed to just sit on any news they have in the fear of someone cutting them off? It reminds me of the various reviews scandals that have happened over the years, with publishers threatening sites if their games didn't score well. These companies are punishing those who are trying to do their job. The leaks have been coming for a while now and it seems to me that Nintendo haven't any idea where they are coming from and rather than find and stop the source they are hitting out on those that are dishing out the information. If all of this is annoying Nintendo then maybe they should take a long hard look at their inside infrastructure and how information is spread within the company and their 3rd party partners. Exactly! Couldn't agree more. The media's job is to publish stories not to protect Nintendo's secrets, industry secrets or business plans. If Nintendo wishes to reduce the likelihood of leaks then spending time critcising the media is a wasted effort. Instead, they should focus their efforts identifying those who do the leaking rather than the reporting.
Serebii Posted December 7, 2016 Author Posted December 7, 2016 So you think any and all companies just shrug off leaks of that level? I'm not saying what LPVG did was wrong, it's their job. However, expecting a company to play nice after you blow all their secrets is ridiculous and you guys thinking Nintendo should still play nice are just miles away from reality and how things are. Nintendo are a company, not a service, and they have every right to do what they have done here.
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