Rummy Posted August 20, 2016 Posted August 20, 2016 As people say regularly, nintendos home console success has been slowly deteriorating, 3rd parties have, sales of third parties have (with the Wii being the anomaly). If getting third parties on board means creating a console as powerful as the competition con anyone really expect Nintendo to do that? I know each case is more complex than that, but Nintendo have been losing in that race since the n64. Maybe creating a cheap, hyrbid Nintendo device IS the best choice for them and we just need to get over it. I really don't think it's fair to attack Nintendo for it. I think having this third company doing things completely differently is smart, and maybe more importantly, exactly what the industry needs. But I really want to do know what it is once and for all and what 3rd parties are doing for it. Then we know, and can discuss that. Then we know if it's for us or not. And if it's not, hopefully people won't feel the need to constantly criticize this seemingly brave decision. I'm not exactly sure if we've been reading the same thread. How many people were 'attacking' Nintendo for the hybrid nature? Many seemed excited by the idea and the prospects of it. Who's been saying it's going to be a cheap, hybrid device that ISN'T on par with the competition? I thought it's been said/speculated repeatedly that the Tegra 2 chip will have it sitting, technically, above the XB1 but below the PS4? You are wrong on 'attacking'(a stronger word than I'd prefer, I'd say criticise tbh) Nintendo though. Of course it's fair! Innovation/doing something different isn't automatically a good thing; just go see how many people groan at some of the stuff that pops on Dragon's Den :p People innovate all the time, and many of them are shit - given the history of Nintendo and the WiiU we can try to base things on - I think many are very right to be worried, speculative, and sceptical. Anyway - nobody was really arguing the above points because I don't think they feel them. I don't really/truly think power is the issue. It's developer friendlyness, it's having system features that match the standard offered by the competition, it's having games that are good enough to make people want to buy the system(whether Nintendo's own or not, as excellently demonstrated and probably best discussed in RedShell's thread http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58714), it's having such a solid enough foundation with your system by having the arguable basics covered that the system can become a success enough by itself - and then attract everything else on top.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 20, 2016 Posted August 20, 2016 You are wrong on 'attacking'(a stronger word than I'd prefer, I'd say criticise tbh) Nintendo though. Of course it's fair! . I really REALLY can't understand the motive behind consumers advising other consumers to not be critical of money hungry corporate companies. Of course, its the emotional connection to the brand but that in itself is a form of manipulation of the consumer - we HAVE to be critical of what we spend our living on and theres nothing wrong with that whatsoever.
dazzybee Posted August 20, 2016 Posted August 20, 2016 I'm not exactly sure if we've been reading the same thread. How many people were 'attacking' Nintendo for the hybrid nature? Many seemed excited by the idea and the prospects of it. Who's been saying it's going to be a cheap, hybrid device that ISN'T on par with the competition? I thought it's been said/speculated repeatedly that the Tegra 2 chip will have it sitting, technically, above the XB1 but below the PS4? You are wrong on 'attacking'(a stronger word than I'd prefer, I'd say criticise tbh) Nintendo though. Of course it's fair! Innovation/doing something different isn't automatically a good thing; just go see how many people groan at some of the stuff that pops on Dragon's Den :p People innovate all the time, and many of them are shit - given the history of Nintendo and the WiiU we can try to base things on - I think many are very right to be worried, speculative, and sceptical. Anyway - nobody was really arguing the above points because I don't think they feel them. I don't really/truly think power is the issue. It's developer friendlyness, it's having system features that match the standard offered by the competition, it's having games that are good enough to make people want to buy the system(whether Nintendo's own or not, as excellently demonstrated and probably best discussed in RedShell's thread http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58714), it's having such a solid enough foundation with your system by having the arguable basics covered that the system can become a success enough by itself - and then attract everything else on top. I never said people were attacking Nintendo for being a hyrbid. People are "criticising" them for diversity and the potential of it just being a Nintendo box though. And I just don't think it's fair. Nintendo are in the position they are in and they need to do what's best for them. The fact 3rd parties aren't on nintendos machines, or the fact they don't sell very well when they are isnt\'t all nintendos fault, and just because it means the machine not be the perfect all in one machine a lot of us want I just don't get slagging them off for it. Of course we can criticise everything they do. But if they set out to achieve a cheap-wish hyrbrid that in the main is going to be a Nintendo box, what's the point is having a go at them? We accept it and buy it, or we don't. As for power. I would absolutely love it to be that powerful, but IS there any rumors about that? I thought everything was looking towards tegra 1 -ish, ultimately just a bit over Wii u powered. I just don't know how we can expect a ps4 in a portable. I really REALLY can't understand the motive behind consumers advising other consumers to not be critical of money hungry corporate companies. Of course, its the emotional connection to the brand but that in itself is a form of manipulation of the consumer - we HAVE to be critical of what we spend our living on and theres nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But that's not what I'm saying, what I'm trying, and maybe failing, to say, is if they make this decision with a low powered hyrbrid tat won't appeal to third parties, THAT is a decision that I feel would be unfair to attack. If they have an inept online infrastructure, have droughts, or don't have folders, by all means this needs to be criticised.
Ashley Posted August 20, 2016 Posted August 20, 2016 (edited) Of course we can criticise everything they do. But if they set out to achieve a cheap-wish hyrbrid that in the main is going to be a Nintendo box, what's the point is having a go at them? We accept it and buy it, or we don't. I have no empirical reason for believing the following, other than extracting from conversations I've had with people, but I feel the NX is the tipping point for a lot of lifetime Nintendo fans. The Wii was a radical departure for Nintendo in terms of aims, goals etc. It was interesting and it was new and most Nintendo fans went with it, even if some came to dislike it. Then the Wii U came along that in some regards took a step back (more 'traditional' control available) and in others carried on the Wii (the control still has a "gimmick"). It has been more divisive, perhaps in part because it's neither one thing or another (i.e. a 'powerful' console or a 'gimmick' console). The NX is still a mystery but I can imagine some people are seeing it as make or break for their relationship with Nintendo. They may love the games, but can't find justification in buying a machine just for them (although RedShell's thread seems to suggest most people would buy it even if its just a Nintendo box). They may end up not buying it ever and disregarding Nintendo for the future, or perhaps they just wait a few years whereas they previously would have got it at launch. If this applies to anyone, I can see why they're criticising it. Plus we don't know what "it" is that we'll be accepting at the moment They may not want the rumoured "it" and until we know what "it" is exactly they have the right to express their desires for "it" to not be the rumoured "it". (see also: Brexit) or don't have folders Gotta admire your consistency! Edited August 20, 2016 by Ashley
liger05 Posted August 20, 2016 Posted August 20, 2016 Anyone who claims even a wii u level of power for a handheld isn't a powerful machine is straight up lying.
Ashley Posted August 20, 2016 Posted August 20, 2016 Anyone who claims even a wii u level of power for a handheld isn't a powerful machine is straight up lying. I don't think anyone (of note) is but I can imagine people not wanting a handheld in the first place being annoyed because they expect something better than Wii U and get something better than 3DS instead.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Anyone who claims even a wii u level of power for a handheld isn't a powerful machine is straight up lying. I'm sure such a machine can be powerful, but its more witnessing the same familiar graphics for another generation (mostly thinking of the on-tv aspect). I personally think a hybrid machine will cause a lot of division between your classic handheld and home console gamers. But that's not what I'm saying, what I'm trying, and maybe failing, to say, is if they make this decision with a low powered hyrbrid tat won't appeal to third parties, THAT is a decision that I feel would be unfair to attack. If they have an inept online infrastructure, have droughts, or don't have folders, by all means this needs to be criticised. Fair dos I think - my response to Rummy was more a broader one.
Blade Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 We know nothing official about the NX yet it is proving divisive amongst the Nintendo fanbase. Imagine what the average consumer would think of the rumours surrounding the NX. I suspect tbat they are not interested and will continue to support their PS4/XBO
Ronnie Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 We know nothing official about the NX yet it is proving divisive amongst the Nintendo fanbase. Imagine what the average consumer would think of the rumours surrounding the NX. I suspect tbat they are not interested and will continue to support their PS4/XBO What are you basing this on ? Pure guesswork? Reaction to the Eurogamer leak seems very positive in general.
Dcubed Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Dragon Quest XI just got re-confirmed for NX... http://gematsu.com/2016/08/dragon-quest-xi-confirmed-nx-simultaneous-launch-ps4-3ds-versions-suggested There's an interesting quote from Hori here... That’s right. The use of hardware is different for each system, so it’s quite a challenge. ... which implies that the NX version is not a port of either the 3DS or the PS4 version!
Clownferret Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 I think a large percentage of NX sales will be as a powerful handheld. I can't see loads of people buying it as home console as I don't see it offering a much different experience to the Wii U.
liger05 Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 I don't think anyone (of note) is but I can imagine people not wanting a handheld in the first place being annoyed because they expect something better than Wii U and get something better than 3DS instead. True but a handheld was expected if you look at the timeline. 3DS was released in 2011 and needs replacing.
Ronnie Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 And given Sony wouldn't dare release another handheld, the NX should have the market all to itself, in terms of dedicated gaming devices
Kav Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 And given Sony wouldn't dare release another handheld, the NX should have the market all to itself, in terms of dedicated gaming devices This is why I think it's Nintendo's best bet going forward. Handhelds that dock to the TV. A dedicated home console can't seem to compete with the competition so by making it in the handheld space but providing the hook-up to TV will help satiate their fanbase to the best degree they can. If there is upscaling from the handheld to the TV too then this will improve on the handheld only devices of past too. A hybrid is the way forward!
Hero-of-Time Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 From Nintendo Everything. On Friday, Nikkei Trendy published a new interview with Shinya Takahashi, General Manager of Nintendo Entertainment Planning & Development. There’s admittedly not a whole lot in the discussion that’s new. However, it does offer some additional perspective on some topics, including NX. At one point, the interviewer brings up how when Wii was being released, he heard that a part of the plan to get the system next to a television in living rooms was to make a game console that moms wouldn’t hate. That prompted Nikkei Trendy to ask if there plans like this for NX. Takahashi said in response: “I can’t talk about this in detail yet, but we are aiming so that neither people who like games nor moms dislike it. I think that I want to release a game device that both customers who have much experience in gaming and customers who haven’t played much can enjoy greatly.” Nikkei Trendy also brought up how when Wii U was initially released, there was a long time without new software, which seemed to drastically affect the console’s sales. With NX though, it seems it’s being released next March – outside of Christmas, the biggest earnings period of the year – in order to gather enough software. The publication wondered if Nintendo is trying to avoid software shortages by gathering up development teams into one place. Takahashi said of this: “We are paying attention to that. Having said that, it isn’t about drastically increasing the amount of development staff. To be specific, software development teams and teams that create the development environment are thinking about the NX lineup together. For example, a software development team may have a request ‘if we had this library, then development would progress quickly’. Teams creating the development environment respond to that by considering ‘if we prepare an environment like this, then development will go smoothly’, and they actually discuss with development teams and hear their opinions and prioritize those things. We have built a stronger cooperative relationship compared to what is was before and are making efforts so that software can be developed smoothly.” NX still remains a huge mystery even though we’ve known about the platform’s existence since last March. There are rumors of an unveiling sometime next month, though we’ve yet to receive a confirmation on that front.
Nolan Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 And given Sony wouldn't dare release another handheld, the NX should have the market all to itself, in terms of dedicated gaming devices What are you basing this on? The Vita was actually quite a nice product, and it had some decent support. With time I could see them pushing another handheld.
drahkon Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 With time I could see them pushing another handheld. If the PS4 continues to be this successful and if PSVR and the Neo will take off, I can see them give a new handheld a chance. But not in the next 2 or 3 years.
Ronnie Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 What are you basing this on? The Vita was actually quite a nice product, and it had some decent support. With time I could see them pushing another handheld. The fact that the Vita is a laughing stock that's barely sold? Technically a great piece of kit though, and good for indie games but first party wise Sony abandoned it 2-3 years ago, it just wasn't selling. No decent versions of COD, FIFA or GTA to shift units probably didn't help. Sony would be insane to try again, they virtually ignore it these days.
Ashley Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) True but a handheld was expected if you look at the timeline. 3DS was released in 2011 and needs replacing. Well they both need replacing if we're honest The fact that the Vita is a laughing stock that's barely sold? Technically a great piece of kit though, and good for indie games but first party wise Sony abandoned it 2-3 years ago, it just wasn't selling. No decent versions of COD, FIFA or GTA to shift units probably didn't help. Sony would be insane to try again, they virtually ignore it these days. I wouldn't call the Vita a laughing stock. It may not have sold huge numbers and Sony has given up on it but it has a fantastic range of unique titles, great indie support and the use of cross play sounds like an inspiration for the NX (and a bit the Wii U but with the Gamepads range being so limited it never came to fruition) so it has its place in history and it's importance, just as the Wii U has. And it's sold 13 million units so it's on par with the Wii U (but granted, with a year head start). Edited August 21, 2016 by Ashley
Blade Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 The fact that the Vita is a laughing stock that's barely sold? Technically a great piece of kit though, and good for indie games but first party wise Sony abandoned it 2-3 years ago, it just wasn't selling. No decent versions of COD, FIFA or GTA to shift units probably didn't help. Sony would be insane to try again, they virtually ignore it these days. Replace "Vita" with "Wii U" and delete "technically piece of kit" you are describing Nintendo and the Wii U.
Ronnie Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Replace "Vita" with "Wii U" and delete "technically piece of kit" you are describing Nintendo and the Wii U. And? The relevance to this discussion? You're right, the Vita is as big a failure as the Wii U. I'll replace "great piece of kit" for Vita with "actually has brilliant first party games" for Wii U. I wouldn't call the Vita a laughing stock. It may not have sold huge numbers and Sony has given up on it but it has a fantastic range of unique titles, great indie support and the use of cross play sounds like an inspiration for the NX (and a bit the Wii U but with the Gamepads range being so limited it never came to fruition) so it has its place in history and it's importance, just as the Wii U has. And it's sold 13 million units so it's on par with the Wii U (but granted, with a year head start). They're both failures, that was my point. It's why I'd be amazed if Sony tried another handheld, their market just doesn't want it.
Ashley Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 They're both failures, that was my point. It's why I'd be amazed if Sony tried another handheld, their market just doesn't want it. Well it just seems like if someone called the Wii U a "laughing stock" you'd take umbrage. But it isn't stopping Nintendo from making another console, why should it stop Sony?
drahkon Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 But it isn't stopping Nintendo from making another console, why should it stop Sony? Because Sony is smart.
Rummy Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Omg why you gotta come in here and call the Wii U a failure Ronnie?! You're so negative!! Can't believe you're allowed to get away with it, that'd never fly with the PS4!! THIS PLACE MAN. This is why I think it's Nintendo's best bet going forward. Handhelds that dock to the TV. A dedicated home console can't seem to compete with the competition so by making it in the handheld space but providing the hook-up to TV will help satiate their fanbase to the best degree they can. If there is upscaling from the handheld to the TV too then this will improve on the handheld only devices of past too. A hybrid is the way forward! Personally I think just up-scaling is not good enough. It needs to be more hybrid imo, and I think the way to make this appeal to both sides of the gamers(ie console and handheld) is to ensure the dock does more than just upscale - give it some extra juice or extra possibilities somehow. Make it so that you WANT to play it at as a home console as well as a handheld. Now at first it might seem a bit raw - 'but how can I play my game just as good if I only get some features when it's docked?!' - but here they aren't selling some extra 4MB expansion pak, gameboy player, modem etc for extra functionality - the system comes as a whole two part so everyone's in the same boat. I think that's an interesting aspect that may be able to build upon the older concepts of additional power etc. I wouldn't like it to lead to incremental upgrades though, mind. One of my real concerns is that of on-the-go gaming and how it would tally with the home console nature. Is there a DS-esque cart for the system, or will you be able to take a select amount of games 'out' with you each time? How much storage will it have for on the go? What about things like patches etc which are becoming more and more common these days, especially with moves towards more online/multiplayer gaming? Is storage going to futureproof for that? How will it verify versions when offline? Will you be prevented from playing with a mate when you're out and about because one of you isn't as updated as the other etc?
Ronnie Posted August 21, 2016 Posted August 21, 2016 Well it just seems like if someone called the Wii U a "laughing stock" you'd take umbrage. You mean like others here seem to be taking umbrage at me stating the obvious that the Vita is a failure? But it isn't stopping Nintendo from making another console, why should it stop Sony? Nintendo know how to innovate and bring something new to the table. Hence, NX (and 3DS, Wii, DS, Wii U etc)
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