Serebii Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Of course but for me the worry is they do earn such revenue and suddenly Mobile becomes key component of their business at the expense of other things. It won't be. Mobile is an incredibly hard market to do well in, even for Nintendo. Considering they're not going to do the exploitative monetisation strategies that exist, but rather just light payments if any, they're not going to make a craptonne of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Hearing that Nintendo's developers would be working on those mobile games is just depressing Their staff are already stretched thin as it is... (If it really wasn't going to reduce their "passion" for dedicated hardware/software, they would be ramping up their internal development staff to compensate...) The thought that the likes of Miyamoto, Hideki Konno, Eguichi and Aonuma might end up being reduced to working on mobile crapware just makes me want to cry I also don't see this having the effect that Iwata is saying that they're aiming for. I just can't see someone who might play Mario Endless Runner for free to suddenly go out and spend £200-300 to buy a Nintendo console and the new Mario console/handheld game. It's ultimately just going to satisfy their itch. Quality doesn't matter on mobile - why do you think that every single popular mobile game is free to play? The only things that matters are how well you can exploit human weaknesses and how well you can promote your game. I just see it as the beginning of the end. Quality game design outside of independently developed games has its days numbered This fucking world! Nobody appreciates quality anymore! DeNA is making the mobile games, Nintendo will likely only supervise. It's also worth remembering that Nintendo have recruited a lot more staff recently and that the joint architecture of their next consoles means that they'll need less staff to produce the same content. What WILL take up man power is QoL but presumably they've taken the right steps to ensure that they've got enough man power on the video games side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 DeNA is making the mobile games, Nintendo will likely only supervise. It's also worth remembering that Nintendo have recruited a lot more staff recently and that the joint architecture of their next consoles means that they'll need less staff to produce the same content. What WILL take up man power is QoL but presumably they've taken the right steps to ensure that they've got enough man power on the video games side of things. Not true. Nintendo is doing most of the development. DeNA provides the backend and is doing the account system for Wii U/3DS/NX/whateverelsecomesinthefuture/smartphone games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I suppose that getting negative about things isn't going to help anything. Gotta stay positive. I'm sure that they'll stick it out with dedicated hardware/software for absolutely as long as they're still around - even if it's in diminished form. After all, they're still making Hanafuda cards, even 125 years on! Despite the fact that it's a tiny market, they still make them. Likewise, they've doggedly stuck to making what they want to make, despite the realities of the market. This is the same company that continued to make traditional, quality titles even as the world changed around them - hell this is the same company that made Sin & Punishment 2 for Christ's sake! A full retail, big budget sequel to their worst selling game of all time and even released it worldwide (hell they even upgraded it for its western release, despite the poor sales in Japan!) and the same company that rescued Bayonetta 2 (a game that stood no chance of making its money back) and even got a definitive version of Bayonetta 1 made alongside it! - All after watching The Wonderful 101 crater spectacularily! Every single time they've had the opportunity to give up and take the easy "safe" route, they never have. And while it's crushing to watch them concede defeat here, I don't think it's a sign that they're gonna give up completely. They're the good guys and I reckon that they always will be. I'll end up sticking with them to the very end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goron_3 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Not true. Nintendo is doing most of the development. DeNA provides the backend and is doing the account system for Wii U/3DS/NX/whateverelsecomesinthefuture/smartphone games Actually, having read the quote: Development of smart device games will be mainly done by Nintendo, but it is significant that we are forming a joint development structure with DeNA So it's a bit of both. Still, I can guarantee that they will not lose staff power over this to a point where it suddently has a negative effect on their home consoles. Iwata may have made mistakes in the past but I'd like to think that he has enough control over the HR side of the company to ensure that their teams aren't being ruined. 'Sorry EAD, I'm nicking 5 of your staff for this runner title' Yeah, not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Actually, having read the quote: Development of smart device games will be mainly done by Nintendo, but it is significant that we are forming a joint development structure with DeNA So it's a bit of both. Still, I can guarantee that they will not lose staff power over this to a point where it suddently has a negative effect on their home consoles. Iwata may have made mistakes in the past but I'd like to think that he has enough control over the HR side of the company to ensure that their teams aren't being ruined. 'Sorry EAD, I'm nicking 5 of your staff for this runner title' Yeah, not happening. My money is on SPD and NST doing the work on these games on their off-time, with EAD still doing their magic on 3DS/Wii U/NX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShell Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 To be honest I'm still pretty surprised this is actually happening, I genuinely didn't see Nintendo making this kind of move. Anyway, it's going to be really interesting to see how this all unfolds. I think it would be cool if Nintendo produced mobile titles that somehow link directly to their dedicated console games, something which offers an incentive for playing both. Not sure exactly how/what that could be, but I think that simply dishing out standalone "light" versions of their games on mobile devices won't necessarily get people then upgrading to the console side of things. Time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kav Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I don't think EAD will be making anymore WiiU games, at least not starting any new ones. Given how Nintendo handled the last couple years of the Wii and that the WiiU is an abysmal sales failure, they're best off getting a slew of titles ready for the new console so there aren't big droughts when it releases. However I've no faith in them doing this. This is Nintendo after all. I've no doubt they'll bork the new console too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 I don't think EAD will be making anymore WiiU games, at least not starting any new ones. Given how Nintendo handled the last couple years of the Wii and that the WiiU is an abysmal sales failure, they're best off getting a slew of titles ready for the new console so there aren't big droughts when it releases. However I've no faith in them doing this. This is Nintendo after all. I've no doubt they'll bork the new console too. Way to be positive :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Way to be positive :p Once bitten, twice shy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogge Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 To do that, they'd have to earn revenue equivalent to 20% of the total current smartphone gaming revenue. Yeah it's expanding and will likely double next year and so forth, but it's a ridiculous amount of marketshare they'd have to have to reach amounts that rival what they earned last year (a bad year) before it's even worth considering. I, too, hate this, but let's not take things to extremes. Not neceserilly. Nintendo don't need to earn massive ammounts of money per game for this to be the case. What counts is return on investment. If they can create mobile games on the cheap and earn proportionately more from that game than they would on the consoles, then that could spell trouble. Not because Iwata would like to scale back the good stuff (which he does, when you think of the Wii U launch window), but because investors LOVE a quick buck, regardless of long-term consequences. If you too agree that this is bad, we should all agree not to actually spend any money on Nintendos mobile stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If you too agree that this is bad, we should all agree not to actually spend any money on Nintendos mobile stuff Too late. He's already done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I don't think EAD will be making anymore WiiU games, at least not starting any new ones. Given how Nintendo handled the last couple years of the Wii and that the WiiU is an abysmal sales failure, they're best off getting a slew of titles ready for the new console so there aren't big droughts when it releases. However I've no faith in them doing this. This is Nintendo after all. I've no doubt they'll bork the new console too. Even if they weren't going mobile, this would be the time where development would start shifting over to the new NX system anyway. I'm sure that we'll still see more unannounced games for Wii U (they've even said as much, with more unannounced Wii U games being unveiled at E3 this year), but after this year, this is the time where development would have to start winding down and moving onto the next platforms anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazza Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No they can't... Only one type of "game" ever rises to the top and that's the exploitative Skinner box type... Incredibly basic gameplay with no depth (the lacking control methods on offer just offer no scope to create anything with any control depth whatsoever - and the lack of touch screen precision disallows anything like what you saw on the DS like with Kirby Power Paintbrush), but laced with carefully placed imagery and reward schedules to release just the right amount of endorphins to get vulnerable whales to open up their wallets. They're nothing but glorified slot machines in sheep's clothing. I have seen this filter into other games too. I'm not sure if you played/enjoyed Fantasy Life, but to me it seemed like it was just about following prompts and making "achievements" flash up on screen every few minutes. Although not directly asking you for money each time, I couldn't help but feel it had been influenced by the mobile market. Of course, it doesn't help that when you load up the title screen, the first thing you see is "Payable Content". To think Level-5 went from Dragon Quest IX to this is very sad (and VIII before that! I've only just realised, the same developer made Dragon Quest VIII and Fantasy Life - flipping heck!! ) Anyway, I do basically agree with you that it's a tawdry business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I have seen this filter into other games too. I'm not sure if you played/enjoyed Fantasy Life, but to me it seemed like it was just about following prompts and making "achievements" flash up on screen every few minutes. Although not directly asking you for money each time, I couldn't help but feel it had been influenced by the mobile market. Of course, it doesn't help that when you load up the title screen, the first thing you see is "Payable Content". To think Level-5 went from Dragon Quest IX to this is very sad (and VIII before that! I've only just realised, the same developer made Dragon Quest VIII and Fantasy Life - flipping heck!! ) Anyway, I do basically agree with you that it's a tawdry business. I haven't actually played Fantasy Life yet (I do own it though), but I kind of got that impression that it might be a bit like that... I hope that it doesn't drag things down too much... I absolutely hate it when developers use blatant Skinner box tricks like that to artificially pad out their game. I'm playing through Bravely Default right now and the SP Drinks (the paid microtransactions shortcut that they added into the international version) thankfully hasn't really influenced the rest of the game's design (though the in-game messages for it really really rub me badly...). You can tell that the game wasn't really changed from the original version (in fact, the speed up options are a GODSEND! I would not have been able to enjoy the game without them! ). So I like to have a bit of hope that it's not too bad with Fantasy Life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh64 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I can't wait to see what comes of this, I much prefer playing stuff on my iPad these days than my 3DS (got the new Phoenix Wright on my iPad instead, actually) I can't believe some of you though, saying there's no quality games on mobile and that they're all cheap cash-in's is as ignorant as saying the Wii was crap and only had sports and dance games. Scratch a little below the surface before sweeping generalisations. I also think Nintendo can easily sweep the floor with mobile just looking at their DS output, of course a mario platformer would be no good, but what about Nintendogs, Wario Ware Touched, Yoshi's Touch and Go, these are all games that would be great on mobile, some of which, like Wario Ware, have already proven to be a popular concept on mobile - Dumb Ways To Die is exactly like WarioWare in that you play through a bunch of short mini-games that get consisitently faster and keep going until you're out of lives and that, along with its sequel, has consistently been in the top charts. Pokemon already does pretty well, the Trading Card Game is awesome and the TV app is pretty cool. The main game is a hard decision though. I can see why they wouldn't/won't release it on mobile as it is the saving grace for their handhelds, especially with the original GameBoy and 3DS, but rampant emulator usage on Android (and the way they shoot to the top of ios charts the short time they manage to stay on there) show that there would be a massive market for it. There was a ROM site to get Pokemon for Android and the download count was in the millions, thats a lot of potential money but again - pricing would be a nightmare to figure out and I have no doubt that more than any other series, going mobile would seriously effect the Nintendo device version of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 English Q&A is up http://www.nintendo.co.jp/corporate/release/en/2015/150317qa/index.html Some snippets... Q: One possible (smart device) business model (known in Japan) is "Gacha," which encourages consumers to spend money (on random game items that may make it easier to progress in a game). What is Mr. Iwata’s opinion regarding this business model, which is criticized because it earns revenue through the gambling urges of consumers? Iwata: Because these game applications (that are developed and released as a result of the alliance between Nintendo and DeNA) are going to be offered to consumers by utilizing Nintendo IP, I naturally believe it impossible that they will be offered to consumers via a business model to which Nintendo cannot agree. Both companies have already thoroughly agreed that we will decide the business model based upon mutual agreement - that we will only develop and offer products with which consumers feel comfortable and satisfied. Of course, I do not deny any and all "free-to-start" style payment systems. However, Nintendo does not want our IP to be used in any scenarios that consumers might think we have taken it a bit far or question whether the content is suitable for children. We do not foresee such games as a result of this alliance. On the Club Nintendo replacement that DENA is co-developing... Q. I would like to know a little more about the new membership service. Which specific services will be available? Can some data be used between different devices? How will you include a payment system there? A (Iwata). The only things we can announce today regarding the new membership service are limited to that it is compatible with multiple devices and that it will form a bridge among these devices. If I can go a bit further, we will construct a system so that we can invite the users who play our game applications on smart devices to our dedicated game systems; something you have done on one device can be utilized on another. We have scheduled this new membership service to start in the fall of this year, and it will have a loyalty program like the existing Club Nintendo. Allow us to stop here, as we will make further detailed announcements on the new membership service when we progress further in its development and are ready to explain it in a more comprehensive way. More re-iteration that they refuse to port existing games/release multiplatform titles and why... Although this is very simple, the first one was establishing the philosophy that we will not release identical games for the two platforms - smart devices and dedicated video game systems. There have been many cases where games originally made for other devices were simply ported to smart devices. But when I asked myself if the best play experiences that these original games contained were incorporated effectively into the smart device versions, I doubted that I could always give a positive answer. The number of consumers who have access to the same game certainly does increase. On the other hand, if the ported game does not reproduce the same satisfactory experiences that the original game provided, information that the game is not satisfactory would just end up spreading and, therefore devalue the content. Alternatively, if identical games were released for these two platforms, the different price points at which the seemingly identical games are offered might be considered unjustifiable to users even if it may simply be due to the different business models applied to the two different platforms. These are just a few of the challenges that existed. It was important for Nintendo to analyze and clearly recognize that smart devices and dedicated video game systems are two completely different things even though, at a glance, they may appear to be very close from the viewpoint that you can play games on both of them. And more re-iteration that these mobile games are not really being considered as huge revenue drivers, but advertising tools first and foremost... Please elaborate on the business models of the two companies. For instance, how will you divide total revenue of 100 between Nintendo and DeNA?A 11 Iwata: I think both sides should answer this question. As I mentioned earlier, we have been saying that each company’s role will change depending on the game titles. In general, Nintendo offers its IP, and things like developing applications for smart devices and the designing or planning for those would be Nintendo’s main roles in many cases. On the other hand, DeNA has sophisticated skills in developing back-end servers, analyzing consumer behavior or executing their daily operations extremely swiftly. So my understanding is that each side’s share would be almost equal, excluding portions related to our IP. However, I believe it is fair to allocate the return based on the investment made by each side while each side clearly shares information about the resources used for each title. So, what I mean is returns will be based on the effort each side makes, not based on the company size. Moriyasu: As Mr. Iwata said, regarding our game business – that is, game development and operation for smart devices – will depend on what role each party will play. Basically, we will do what each company is good at, which I mentioned earlier, and we will be sharing revenue accordingly. And from DeNA’s point of view, our focus is how much gross revenue one game can generate. As Mr. Iwata mentioned earlier, if we can create multiple hits, they should be able to generate a big positive impact on both parties’ revenues. Iwata: [/b]It would actually be far more constructive to discuss how we can increase our number of consumers than to discuss how we should split revenue between us.[/b] As a tremendous number of people own smart devices, our primary mission is to reach as many of them as possible. My answer might not be sufficient for analysts, but the first priority on our minds is how to increase our number of consumers. All interesting (and comforting) stuff, but it still feels like a slippery slope to me... Either way, give it a read - more interesting stuff within! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fused King Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 What I'm still wondering is DeNA is a Japanese company right? Do they have any experience abroad? I'm wondering this since they will be co-creating an ecosystem that will also be available in all the other regions NINTENDO operates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wii Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Mario Kart Producer Is Now In Charge Of Nintendo’s Mobile Game Development It would seem as though the producer of Mario Kart has now been promoted by Nintendo to oversee the company’s mobile game development. The news was reported by Sankei, and while they don’t disclose a name, it would seem as though it is Hideki Konno who has helped produce the Mario Kart titles since the excellent Mario Kart DS. We probably won’t see the fruit of his labour for a while yet, but it is interesting news nonetheless. http://mynintendonews.com/2015/05/07/mario-kart-producer-is-now-in-charge-of-nintendos-mobile-game-development/ Mario Kart producer in charge of Nintendo’s mobile game development While announcing Nintendo’s latest financial results, president Satoru Iwata shared a brief update regarding the company’s mobile development plans. Sankei reports that the producer of Mario Kart has been appointed to be in charge of mobile game development. “It should help you understand the level of commitment from Nintendo”, Iwata said. A name isn’t specifically mentioned, but we assume the article is referring to Hideki Konno, who has been producing Mario Kart games since the DS entry. Konno was also the producer on Mario Kart Wii, Mario Kart 7, and Mario Kart 8. Sankei also mentions that today’s news shows how Nintendo intends to tackle mobile games with the same developers they use for console games. Nintendo announced in March that it was teaming up with DeNA to create gaming apps for smartphone devices. The two sides are also working together a new membership service for Nintendo. http://nintendoeverything.com/mario-kart-producer-in-charge-of-nintendos-mobile-game-development/ http://www.sankei.com/west/news/150507/wst1505070071-n1.html Edited May 7, 2015 by Wii Automerged Doublepost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Stolen from Gaf. Regarding this subject, we announced our business alliance with DeNA on March 17. Each of our companies offers unique strengths, and we are confident that when combined, the synergies will enable us to compete strongly in the smart device space. We will start the service for the first game application by the end of this calendar year. Internally at Nintendo, we have executed several organizational and personnel changes in order to properly operate the smart device business, and we will make further changes before the first release. As we confirmed on March 17, all of our IP can be considered for a smart device game. On the other hand, since the game business on smart devices is already severely competitive, even with highly popular IP, the odds of success are quite low if consumers cannot appreciate the quality of a game. Also, if we were simply to port software that already has a track record on a dedicated game system, it would not match the play styles of smart devices, and the appropriate business models are different between the two, so we would not anticipate a great result. If we did not aim to achieve a significant result, it would be meaningless for us to do it at all. Accordingly, we are going to carefully select appropriate IP and titles for our smart device deployment. Regarding the number of the titles, you may want to know that we will release approximately five titles by the end of the next fiscal year, which is the end of March 2017. You may think it is a small number, but when we aim to make each title a hit, and because we want to thoroughly operate every one of them for a significant amount of time after their releases, this is not a small number at all and should demonstrate our serious commitment to the smart device business. We will strive to expand this business into global markets at a steady pace so that eventually we will entertain hundreds of millions of people all around the world. We are aiming to make this one of the pillars of Nintendo’s revenue structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Stolen from Gaf. Actually puts my mind at ease about the whole situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Actually puts my mind at ease about the whole situation I'm still apprehensive about the whole thing. Nonetheless, it's an interesting time for the company and it's fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Five titles between now and March 2017 is a bit of a relief. Clearly going for quality over quantity, which is nothing new for them really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wii Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 [TWEET]597250142895415300[/TWEET] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogge Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Actually puts my mind at ease about the whole situation Five games over 15 months is about half as much as Nintendo put out for the Wii U themselves. And that they at all are restructuring the company to accomodate this is awful news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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