Charlie Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 It sounds like you're in a good place with 2 interviews lined up and your head teacher wants to keep you. I must've missed the story there - what's happened?
Ashley Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 For what it's worth if you do get offered another job it may give your current place the kick it needs to get the ball rolling on whatever to keep you there.
bob Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 Yeah, you can just march into the head's office with a holdall and yell at them to fill it with money, or you're out of there.
Cookyman Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 I've been employed in the same school for 21 years. I've had two posts, one for 9 years and one for 12 and counting. A few years ago I was headhunted to work in another secondary school. I was friendly with the rector there too as he used to work in the school I work at. I explained to him if they wanted to employ me they'd have to pay me my current pay scale - this is something I fought for a few years earlier by going to a pay tribunal, arguing my case and winning. I would have to go down a payscale to work in this other school so I respectfully declined. How stupid is that? Education Service in Scotland - makes no fucking sense.
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) It sounds like you're in a good place with 2 interviews lined up and your head teacher wants to keep you. I must've missed the story there - what's happened? Right, well... I originally started off as a Year 3 teacher in the school. I had a rough first year as the class were an absolute mess and needed a lot of taming. The second year was great and my breakthrough moment and I was then asked to teach my first class again as the Year 5 teacher. I remained year 5 teacher for 4 years and basically did a great job. Three of the junior staff (out of 5) went off on maternity leave during one year and one of the others was also my Junior HeadTeacher, who was up to her eyeballs in work and workplace politics. So, I was effectively her unofficial number 2 and we formed a good partnership (as everyone else was basically off getting pregnant!). We did a lot of good things such as introducing proper assessment tracking, good planning/work schemes, put lots of things in place to help the kids, etc. I did a good job of improving things around the school. We're a private/independent school, so we need to keep our numbers high as kids = money. I've got the biggest class in the junior school this year, I had the biggest one last year and they've generally been pretty good in this area. I've been successful with recruiting good pupils, too. I get on really well with parents, so that's a bonus. Every time an opportunity comes up or a chance to help out, I've done it. I revamped the library last year and electronically tagged every book there before adding it to an internet-based system, which is nothing even remotely similar to what we had before. The list is long. I do an after-school football club, which we charge for. Again, my numbers are high and I have more than double (in most cases, triple) the amount of numbers other clubs do. We had a MASSIVE play the year before last and I took on a huuuuuge part, despite me not particularly wanting to do it. That was a huge time consumer, but I did it because the school needed it. I'm in charge of the Christmas Play every year. I taught Spanish across the junior school and introduced proper planning and progression, as there was nothing beforehand. That's become a huge success now and a major hit with the parents and kids. There's a lot of other things too, it's a pretty decent list and my CV doesn't look bad at all for 6/7 years. So, what's the issue? Well, my Junior Head left in the last term before we finished for the summer. So, that's issue one. Issue two is that we didn't have a Year 6 teacher. We do this weird thing where the Junior School suddenly stops at Year 6 and they have a different teacher for every subject. The problem with this is that the kids have to move from room to room and over a big area. This led to problems with discipline, problems with organisation and parents hated it. So, to solve that problem, it was agreed (before I had any knowledge that my Junior Head was about to leave) that I would become Year 6 teacher and one of the senior English teachers would basically be retrained by myself to become the new year 5 teacher. So, I agreed to this as it would be solving a huuuuuge problem, as the current class would be an absolute car crash waiting to happen if we kept everything the way it was going. In addition to that, the (new) year 5 teacher is great and I knew that we'd be able to do amazing things there. We've straight-away introduced groupings/setting to Literacy and Maths, for example. I agreed to it, despite there being no planning for year 6 and no apparent classroom - this required a major reshuffling and was a huge ballache and caused lots of issues, but is solved now. I did it because it was the right thing to do and there was nobody else to fill that role. The HeadTeacher said that he loved the idea of this as there would be "a strong man at the top of Key Stage 2 who would be able to lead and keep things tight there". Now, the issue is that my HeadTeacher decided to send an email out literally days after this to announce that a colleague/friend of mine would be getting what is effectively the new Junior Head's job...or at least, it's a stepping stone to that role and is a major promotion. There's no rationale behind it. He hasn't done anything even close to what I have achieved and we are light years apart in terms of attitude and work ethic. He's the type (and has a reputation) for being the last one to arrive at work and the first one to leave. He doesn't attend staff meetings! He doesn't volunteer for anything and he always does the absolute bare minimum. He doesn't get on with half of the other staff there and he alienated himself with the former Junior Head by clashing often with her and also didn't get on at all with the one previously to her. So, why did he get it and I didn't?! I've had chats with other members of staff and they couldn't think of a reason why or the logic behind it. In the end, I had an hour-long discussion with the HeadTeacher and didn't get any answer whatsoever. Not one clear reason about something the other guy has done or achieved or skill he possesses that means he should get the job instead of me. It's completely demoralised me and it's a huge slap in the face considering everything I did for the school. The job I'm going for is effectively what I'm already doing, but with an official title, a bit more money and the knowledge that it is a pretty big deal. The Head has said that he does have plans for me, but he hasn't been able to discuss these or say what exactly what it is, so it almost seems like he's saying whatever comes into his head or is making it up as he goes along. I've had tons of support from people in work, so that's something. It's an unbelievable situation though and one that just doesn't make any sense whichever way you look at it. You're supposed to reward hard work, not laziness! Short version as what I wrote was looooong: I did everything asked of me, plus more. Yet, my lazy friend who I work with gets the promotion that I should have received. Edited November 2, 2016 by Fierce_LiNk
Iun Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 Right, well... Wall of text. Sounds to me like you're too important to promote. It's happened to me before and a lot of other people who work hard and actually sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the job.
EEVILMURRAY Posted November 3, 2016 Posted November 3, 2016 I think they're clutching at straws here Flink. You do all this awesome shit on your own and don't expect (probably in their eyes) any incentive, so you're fine where you are - raking in da monies at a lower wage. I'd go for the new job if it gets offered. I bet there are no "big plans" ( have you seen any in your time there?) and even if there are they won't be big. Imagine getting an update to an app and it's just minor bug fixes. It's just something to keep you there, any big plans that may arise will magically not pan out, with some bullshit like "not enough funding" or some shit. By that time the delightful other employment opportunity will have passed you by and you'll be stuck without options. To summarise, as a Wise Man once said: Get to da choppa.
Charlie Posted November 3, 2016 Posted November 3, 2016 Jesus. If I were you I'd be telling the headmaster to suck it and taking the new offer. Make sure you tell him exactly what you're leaving and that you're only leaving because he can't give you a reason as to why you were passed over for the job. He thinks he can get away with it and you'll stay there anyway. Show him it isn't the case.
Cookyman Posted November 3, 2016 Posted November 3, 2016 Jesus. If I were you I'd be telling the headmaster to suck it and taking the new offer. Make sure you tell him exactly what you're leaving and that you're only leaving because he can't give you a reason as to why you were passed over for the job. He thinks he can get away with it and you'll stay there anyway. Show him it isn't the case. Agree with all the above. They'll regret fucking you about and hopefully not do the same to others in the future
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 3, 2016 Posted November 3, 2016 Sounds to me like you're too important to promote. It's happened to me before and a lot of other people who work hard and actually sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the job. I remember you saying this before. There's probably some element of truth in there. I think they're clutching at straws here Flink. You do all this awesome shit on your own and don't expect (probably in their eyes) any incentive, so you're fine where you are - raking in da monies at a lower wage. I'd go for the new job if it gets offered. I bet there are no "big plans" ( have you seen any in your time there?) and even if there are they won't be big. Imagine getting an update to an app and it's just minor bug fixes. It's just something to keep you there, any big plans that may arise will magically not pan out, with some bullshit like "not enough funding" or some shit. By that time the delightful other employment opportunity will have passed you by and you'll be stuck without options. To summarise, as a Wise Man once said: Get to da choppa. Our school was bought out at Easter by a family business who own three other schools. So, there is a bit of talk going on about more money being involved in the future, especially as we're trying to get the numbers up. But, it's all a maybe - not a guarantee. So, nothing is really set in stone, so I'm definitely not believing a word of anything until I see some proof. I'm seriously looking at all of my options and we'll see what happens. When I was in Wales, I sent off around 40 or something applications (maybe not that many, but it felt like a million) and never got anywhere. In England, I've sent off 4 applications and have received 4 interviews. So, I definitely do think there will be options there and I'm encouraged to receive these two interviews for next week. It means I'm not trapped in this place. Jesus. If I were you I'd be telling the headmaster to suck it and taking the new offer. Make sure you tell him exactly what you're leaving and that you're only leaving because he can't give you a reason as to why you were passed over for the job. He thinks he can get away with it and you'll stay there anyway. Show him it isn't the case. I've met with him this week and have made my feelings clear on the matter. He 100% knows why I'm looking elsewhere and I think it's a good move in a political sense to send off a few applications and get instant interviews requests so quickly. Agree with all the above. They'll regret fucking you about and hopefully not do the same to others in the future Hopefully, but there's a lot of shit that goes on in schools. It's a shame because, aside from this, I'm actually really enjoying my time at the school. 90-95% of the job is great...it's just that remaining 5 percent which is total bullshit yet just matters a great deal. I'm loving the people I'm working with (bar a few), the school grounds are gorgeous and the class I've got are a really awesome bunch. It's super frustrating. We'll see how next week goes and go from there.
Beast Posted November 5, 2016 Posted November 5, 2016 @Fierce_LiNk. You sound like you're very passionate for your job and they're taking full advantage of that. You're worth more than your school at this point. You've done so much for them kids and their parents as well as the teachers and even the school itself and they promote the lazy no-gooder? It sounds like the Head doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I think you'd be better out of there but I'd have a talk with him if you really like it there. I have a feeling he'd listen to you- you'd be too valuable to lose. It might be worth mentioning that you've been headhunted by two schools and you're considering it. I'm sorry this shit is happening to you. You sound like an awesome teacher.
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 I had my first interview yesterday. I've bought two new suits recently, although the trousers haven't arrived yet for the second one, which is annoying as that's the one I prefer more. Yesterday was my chance to wear the new one and it felt pretty good, tbh. I felt sexy as fuck walking into the new school wearing that! First of all, we did my lesson observation. It was a year 3 class, so they're around 7/8 years old. The lesson went fine and the class all did what I wanted to do. It was strange having a teaching assistant in the room as we haven't got one of those at my current school. I was invited to go to their whole school assembly before having our interview. I'd researched the types of questions that could come up beforehand and so had the majority of bases covered there. They seemed really interested in what I had to say, so that was nice. I had to let them know that I had another interview on Wednesday as it's the polite and respectful thing to do. They took that on-board, although their faces dropped slightly when they knew it was for a Phase Leader job as they can't offer me that at the moment, but will have major roles coming in September. So, all I had to do was wait. They called back around 30 minutes ago and told me that I was "outstanding" in both my lesson and interview and that they would love to offer me the job. They did say that "I'll probably get snapped up by the other school on Wednesday" and that they're "sorry that they can't offer me anything more than class teacher in January, but that more roles will be coming up in September, which I'll be in line for". Some quick info about the school: It's not in a great area of Bournemouth. There are over 30 languages spoken by pupils at the school and there are 27-30 children per class. They are partnered up with 6 other schools and so can offer loads of potential for career development, which my current job can't. I've got my other interview tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes. I'm mulling things over and it's going to be a very hard decision. The one good thing about my workplace is that, being an independent school, you deal with less children and there is less government pressure than you'd get in a state school. The downside of my current school is that there's no major opportunities for career progression. If I were to leave, my workload would definitely become more difficult and that would probably affect my quality of life. I'm weighing things up, but it's proving to be hard. It'll real fuck things up even more if I get offered tomorrow's job! That'll make things even more interesting.
Ashley Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Well from what I understand you currently have different stresses with your current job (being lumped with responsibility but not acknowledged/rewarded etc) and the smaller stress of having no real chance to advance (or it seems like they're not giving you the chance but doing the "oh but we will!" when you talked about leaving)? So, how do those (and other) stresses compare to the public school stresses? See how tomorrow goes obviously. Did yesterday's give any indication of when they'd like to know your answer? In me news, was casually asked if I want to stay on a year. I know it's a good position I'm in and I'll say yes, but every time I do I feel like I'm basically admitting I'm not succeeding quick enough
Charlie Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Congrats on having an offer on board already. They seem really keen to take you on. I don't think it's necessary to tell them you have other interviews but definitely played into your hands that you did. Good luck tomorrow!
punio75 Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 As a head at an independent school mate I would never go back to state - too much bureaucracy I appreciate you have to be happy at the end of the day though!
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 As a head at an independent school mate I would never go back to state - too much bureaucracy I appreciate you have to be happy at the end of the day though! Oooooh! This just got interesting! Are you a head of department or head of school? There is something that I love about working at an independent school. The freedom that you have to explore ideas that wouldn't get a look in at the majority of state schools, for example.
punio75 Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 I'm head master! The big cheese! We're only a small prep school (142 on roll) but having freedom of choice on curriculum, testing etc.. is a bonus
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 I'm head master! The big cheese! We're only a small prep school (142 on roll) but having freedom of choice on curriculum, testing etc.. is a bonus How old are you, brah? How did you work your way up to this position? I'm a (lowly) Year 6 teacher. Got any words of advice to help a brother succeed?
EEVILMURRAY Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 How old are you, brah? Please tell me that's how you talk to other teachers at work.
Beast Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 I had my first interview yesterday. I've bought two new suits recently, although the trousers haven't arrived yet for the second one, which is annoying as that's the one I prefer more. Yesterday was my chance to wear the new one and it felt pretty good, tbh. I felt sexy as fuck walking into the new school wearing that! First of all, we did my lesson observation. It was a year 3 class, so they're around 7/8 years old. The lesson went fine and the class all did what I wanted to do. It was strange having a teaching assistant in the room as we haven't got one of those at my current school. I was invited to go to their whole school assembly before having our interview. I'd researched the types of questions that could come up beforehand and so had the majority of bases covered there. They seemed really interested in what I had to say, so that was nice. I had to let them know that I had another interview on Wednesday as it's the polite and respectful thing to do. They took that on-board, although their faces dropped slightly when they knew it was for a Phase Leader job as they can't offer me that at the moment, but will have major roles coming in September. So, all I had to do was wait. They called back around 30 minutes ago and told me that I was "outstanding" in both my lesson and interview and that they would love to offer me the job. They did say that "I'll probably get snapped up by the other school on Wednesday" and that they're "sorry that they can't offer me anything more than class teacher in January, but that more roles will be coming up in September, which I'll be in line for". Some quick info about the school: It's not in a great area of Bournemouth. There are over 30 languages spoken by pupils at the school and there are 27-30 children per class. They are partnered up with 6 other schools and so can offer loads of potential for career development, which my current job can't. I've got my other interview tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes. I'm mulling things over and it's going to be a very hard decision. The one good thing about my workplace is that, being an independent school, you deal with less children and there is less government pressure than you'd get in a state school. The downside of my current school is that there's no major opportunities for career progression. If I were to leave, my workload would definitely become more difficult and that would probably affect my quality of life. I'm weighing things up, but it's proving to be hard. It'll real fuck things up even more if I get offered tomorrow's job! That'll make things even more interesting. I don't think that could've gone any better. If you get offered both tomorrow, just make a pros/cons list for both of them and decide that way. What is a Phase Leader and do you want it? This one is something to think about though. Okay it may not be in the greatest of areas BUT if it is connected to six other schools and can give you the chance to further you in your career and it's equal/better pay than the job you're in now, it might be worth considering just for that. Did you enjoy it as much as you enjoy the job you're in now? By that I mean can you see yourself getting involved in the additional stuff that you do for the school and being appreciated for it? Please tell me that's how you talk to other teachers at work. I was thinking that. It'd be like watching an episode of Teachers, haha.
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 13, 2016 Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) As mentioned earlier, I had a job offer on Tuesday. An acquaintance contacted me on Tuesday and told me that she knows somebody who works at the school and apparently the staff turnover is really high (which I sorta knew anyway) and that the morale there isn't great. On Wednesday, I had my interview for a year 5/6 phase leader. The day didn't start off well with me waking up early to find out that Trump was the new American President. So, that wasn't great. What also wasn't great was the 1 hour and 10 minute drive just getting to the new school. I knew in the car on the way there that this was too far and I couldn't see myself doing this everyday. Imagine if there was an accident or I leave during rush hour. I could be spending 3 hours a day in a car! I arrived at the school on time and met the other two candidates, one who just happened to be an internal candidate. I didn't let that bother me and just carried on as normal. We were given our schedules of the day and it looked pretty busy. The first activity they made us do was to analyse 3 pages worth of data, which were school results compared to the national average and broken down by gender, ethnic background, free school meals, looked after children, English as an Additional Language, etc. I had to analyse this data, spot trends and suggest plans of action by writing a report. We had 30 minutes to do this. Next activity, analyse three children's books and scrutinise the work AND marking of the teachers when compared to the mark scheme. Again, 30 minutes, write a report. Third activity: I had to present a five minute presentation in front of... the executive headteacher, deputy head, two junior heads, head of teaching and learning, another teacher, school secretary AND the other two candidates. Of course, I was told I had to go first. We weren't allowed to use any powerpoints or illustrate this in any way and were rigidly timed, with one guy letting us know after each minute had passed. After that, I had my lesson observation and then finally my interview, which lasted for around 40 minutes. As you could imagine, I was absolutely fucking exhausted. The executive headteacher is a complete dragon. She has a reputation for taking failing schools and making them outstanding, but she pushes you to your limits. That's both exciting and "frightening" as the internal candidate mentioned it. There were hardly any staff older than their mid-30s or 40s. That was very noticeable. I was called back into the office after around an hour and I, somehow, got offered the job! To get an offer from a school of this quality is a huge compliment. So, I was obviously delighted. Now, I had a decision to make. I was scheduled to be on evening duty at my school (working with the kids who live there, helping them with homework, etc) and drove straight there after getting the offer. I was given 24 hours to make a decision. A few of my friends were still about, so I talked it through with them. By this point, I decided I had to go speak to the headmaster directly. I had three options in my head: 1. Take the first offer. 2. Take offer 2, despite it being so far away. 3. Reject both and stay. I walked into his office and talked about the week up until that point. I mentioned both job offers, what the jobs were entailing and made it clear that I'm not just a classroom teacher, but can offer a whole lot more. We talked about some of the plans for the school going forward and I told him that I would be rejecting both jobs offers. Again, I reiterated that if I were to leave right now, it would be out of complete anger and disappointment, which is not how I want to leave a place that I hold very dear. We've started talking about going forward from here and offering me more, so I do genuinely think this is on the cards now. It could go in one of many directions, so we'll see what happens. As much as he's pissed me about with this instance, he's still probably one of the top 3 people I've worked with and has come through for me before. I've made it clear that he has to make it worth it or I'm off! I spent the rest of the week telling people about the two interviews and offers. It's been quite a nice ego-boost in a lot of ways. I know that I'm valuable and have loads to offer. We'll see what happens next but I'm hopeful that the outcome will be positive. I sorta knew if I jumped on either of these job offers, I would literally be going for the first thing I was offered. At least now I can cherry pick a bit and see what else is out there and definitely choose the right one for me if the right one comes. As good as the second job would have been, it's in completely the wrong area. I'd be spending most of my life in a car just getting there and back. Not worth it. Plus, it would cancel out the extra money with the money spent on petrol. Nope. Edited November 13, 2016 by Fierce_LiNk
punio75 Posted November 13, 2016 Posted November 13, 2016 How old are you, brah? How did you work your way up to this position? I'm a (lowly) Year 6 teacher. Got any words of advice to help a brother succeed? I'm 41 now - been head for 8 years now. Can be such a a great job, rewarding but there are times when it seems a thankless task. Can be lonely up top too! I worked my way up through the school- class teacher, deputy then Head. It happened really quickly for me. Felt I wasn't ready really- too young etc. but when the new owner took over it was kind of intimated to me that he fully expected me to apply! Sounds like you've made a sensible choice mate- creating that work/life balance is really important. Couldn't bear to spend hours in my car travelling to work each day. Turnover of staff is never a good sign too. I took on a NQT last year who was offered a job at another school initially - better money, fast track to management potentially. But I persuaded her to choose us as we had the reputation and significantly greater stability with staff turnover.
EEVILMURRAY Posted November 13, 2016 Posted November 13, 2016 We talked about some of the plans for the school going forward and I told him that I would be rejecting both jobs offers. Don't leave us hanging brah, what are these plans?
Fierce_LiNk Posted November 13, 2016 Posted November 13, 2016 I'm 41 now - been head for 8 years now. Can be such a a great job, rewarding but there are times when it seems a thankless task. Can be lonely up top too! I worked my way up through the school- class teacher, deputy then Head. It happened really quickly for me. Felt I wasn't ready really- too young etc. but when the new owner took over it was kind of intimated to me that he fully expected me to apply! Sounds like you've made a sensible choice mate- creating that work/life balance is really important. Couldn't bear to spend hours in my car travelling to work each day. Turnover of staff is never a good sign too. I took on a NQT last year who was offered a job at another school initially - better money, fast track to management potentially. But I persuaded her to choose us as we had the reputation and significantly greater stability with staff turnover. Whoa, that's a quick rise to the top! Impressive. Well done! I think I've made the right choice for now. I'm the Year 6 teacher now and I'm in the middle of building links with Year 5. We've started "setting" for Maths and Literacy, for example. I feel that I still have more to offer here and if I were to leave right now, I may regret it further on down the line. Plus, as you say, the drive would have killed me. I couldn't do that job effectively due to that. I feel that I could do a good job at the other school (first job offer), but it hasn't got a good rep and I would literally be jumping at the first job that came my way. Not always the wisest thing to do. We'll see how this goes. Don't leave us hanging brah, what are these plans? I'm Key Stage 2 and 3 trained and have experience teaching everything from Reception to Year 10. We got bought out by a group in April and we are partnered up with a school not too far away from us. My degree specialises in Transition, our current school goes right from 2 1/2 to 16 and the partner school only goes up to 11. So, the thinking is that I could help transition children from that school to this one once they finish at 11. Also, I'd build links (which I'm already doing) from Year 5 to Year 6, and then on to Year 7. There's bits and pieces in there and it could actually be something incredible. Whether it materialises or not is down to the Head. If it happens or something equally as important comes my way, I'll stay. If not, then I go.
EEVILMURRAY Posted November 13, 2016 Posted November 13, 2016 There's bits and pieces in there and it could actually be something incredible. Whether it materialises or not is down to the Head. If it happens or something equally as important comes my way, I'll stay. If not, then I go. How long are you going to give them?
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