Nintendo Investors Meeting ( now in english )

[Ike]

Getting rid of the splash page should be job #1 IMO.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

@Serebii what is your site/CMS written in? PHP?

[flameboy]

Only just noticed this. My beef actually had nothing to do with the person who made the comment.

 

My problem was with someone claiming to have an understanding of the intricacies of Nintendo's OS, then calling in completely unrelated qualifications to try to strengthen their point. Rather than any relevant or reliable information.

 

Just like anywhere in life, you are free to have and express an opinion, but others are just as free to challenge the information on which you have formed that opinion. For instance, I could hold the opinion 'Microsoft's Xbox One will overheat and die within a year'. If you challenged me as to why I said this, and I said 'I know this because I'm really into technology and did an IT degree', you would be well within your rights to raise an eyebrow. If I instead provided meaningful explanation such as 'they use DD1X cooling systems which are notoriously unreliable' - then I suddenly have credibility.

 

You might be thinking 'well everyone is expressing their opinion all the time', and you'd be right. But hey, that's what discussion is. Someone posts, and maybe you agree disagree. That's the fun of it.

 

Wait is this true?!

[Sheikah]

lol no. That was completely made up.

[Hogge]

Iwata states Nintendo need to appeal more to children

 

 

Is this guy serious? Nintendo need to win over the core, SHARPISH!

[Cube]

Iwata states Nintendo need to appeal more to children

 

Is this guy serious? Nintendo need to win over the core, SHARPISH!

 

TBH, it looks like a sentence that is actually quite hard to translate. It could mean two opposite things.

[Jamba]

Can we get back on topic?

 

Is no one else terrified that it seems that Nintendo have just woken up to several fact including the following:

- To increase perceived value the Wii U must clearly demonstrate it's KSPs.

- Having an accounts based system is a form of customer retention (not to mention stifles the resentment of paying for things more than once)

- Their prices need to be examined.

 

These are all things that should have been crystal clear and realised in strategy, a year before launch not over a year afterwards. Whose steering this ship anyway? A bunch of monkeys with typewriters?

[Mr-Paul]

It is good that they say they are going to focus more on software than shows the gamepad's value. Although they should have been making this software from the start. However, does this mean they shouldn't release a pack without one? Although I'm a fan of the device, a cheap gamepadless console could drive sales in the short term for games that just can just use Wii Remotes/pro controllers.

 

There is no reason to say that if Nintendo can create content that makes people want a game pad, that people won't buy it as a stand alone product. Microsoft sold 24million Kinects by last year, which shows people will buy an accessory if there is software that appeals to them that uses it (same with Wii Fit, Guitar Hero etc.) and yes, I realise that Kinect was in many console bundles, but quite a few sales would have been stand alone.

 

It might not work, but if you can get people to buy your console, then prove the value of the GamePad and get them to buy it separately, surely that is a more effective way to get people onto the Wii U than carrying on selling bundles that people don't want with software that isn't showing the real value of the GamePad?

[Serebii]

Iwata states Nintendo need to appeal more to children

 

 

Is this guy serious? Nintendo need to win over the core, SHARPISH!

That has been taken out of context, with just a one line quote. Even professional translators are unable to discern between "Our approach to children was not enough" and "We didn't approach children enough"

[nekunando]

A bunch of monkeys with typewriters?

 

 

I haven't read everything so far so all I will say is that I really like the Wii U Gamepad and am delighted to hear that there seems to be an intention to utilise its features better going forward, even if this is something which should have been happening when they were coming up with the whole idea of the console

 

Off-TV Play is potentially beneficial for a lot of families, and indeed something I have been happy is there on occasions where the TV in our living room is in use but, unfortunately, it is stifling the possibilites the Wii U Gamepad could offer as a second screen to the main action on the TV.

 

We've all known this for a long time, though, so it's particularly frustrating that games such as Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze and, most likely, Mario Kart 8 won't include fresh new ideas and, in the case with DKC, won't do anything at all To seemingly go from completely excluding it's functionality to finally focusing on incorporating it fully into new gameplay ideas seems ridiculous. Make your mind up..

 

All we need are a few amazing gaming experiences that you simply can't get anywhere else, utilising the unique qualities of the Wii U Gamepad to provide something truly outstanding..

[dazzybee]

Other companies are doing things new all the time - but where it matters. New software and IPs (things Nintendo are not doing).

 

This mindset needs to go.

 

'Different hardware = innovation, new software = no innovation".

 

It is so totally backwards to logic, this mantra, since despite having different hardware, nearly all of Nintendo's A1 titles have played and felt the same, or at least very similar.

 

Stop stating the mindset needs to go as FACT

 

I disagree cometely and think the industry would go very stale, very quickly without Nintendo making hardware. Hardware, software and services all need to innovate constantly, it's not one or the other.

 

And the gamepad isn't just about the software. Miiverse, off tvplay, potential creativity apps (sketchbook for eg). And what games do you use it are great BECAUSE If the gamepad - Mario u, Rayman, Zombi u, nintendoland, batman, deus ex, cod.... And 5 player gaming is also brilliant. 5 player local mario kart will be immense. And who knows what else they'll come up with now they've just said they've got the ideas!!

 

You can't just dismiss these things so easily.

 

I do find it staggering people wish none of these things happened. Nintendo are th sonly company to do things at this scale, creating hardware which inspires new types of games and experiences.

[Sheikah]

The people have spoken with their wallets how much they care for the Wii U's features.

[dazzybee]

The people have spoken with their wallets how much they care for the Wii U's features.

 

Again I have to say two things. 1. Why do you care about success so much? It doesn't validate your opinion of it being shit and pointless!! It doesn't discredit my assertion that the industry needs Nintendo making hardware. The general public are the people who slowly made manufactured pop be the best selling music, and mindless hollywood films the biggest films, and it's done the same with gaming. Doesn't mean we don't love the films which don't make money, or the songs people put on soundlcoud. IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT ON QUALITY!!!!!!!!

 

2. It's a year old. I personally think software is the reason people haven't bought it, not the gamepad. And I think software will save it. But either way, let's see what happens long term with it.

[Sheikah]

You're saying how important/awesome/innovative/necessary to the industry these features are, yet clearly most people don't agree. Most people probably couldn't give a shit about Miiverse. It's great that you like it, but you're not going to convince me, or the millions of others who are unhappy with the Wii U right now.

 

Quality doesn't always equal success. But quality is usually recognised. Nintendo produce some quality games, but their hardware is pretty turd.

 

And you say the industry needs Nintendo? For all intents and purposes, the rest of the gaming industry has packed up and left the Wii U. It seems to be doing fine to me.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Sheikah

[Hogge]

That has been taken out of context, with just a one line quote. Even professional translators are unable to discern between "Our approach to children was not enough" and "We didn't approach children enough"

 

That sounds reassuring. I hope that Nintendo come out and clarify this rather soon. Preferably with new announcements.

[Grazza]

Why does Nintendo seem to think the only two options are either "copy Microsoft and Sony" or "go casual"? What saddens me is that they don't realise they have changed, regardless of what the competition's like. They don't seem to remember they used to put out profit-making hardware (N64/GC), even if the sales were fairly modest. They don't seem to remember their old consoles had no gimmicks; instead, they had reasonable price points and gave the feeling you were getting your full money's worth of processing power.

 

Remember how Nintendo's software used to be so much more artistic? It wasn't just "Fun! Fun! Fun! Innovation! Innovation! Innovation!" all the time. Nintendo's games actually used to make you feel emotions. I will never forget the way Link left Termina, having made friends with the SkullKid. Or those ReDeads leaping on him in Ocarina of Time, or how Nabooru implied she would thank him more generously if he was older. Over the past eight years, I have started most Nintendo games knowing they'll be fun and mechanically-sound, but won't really have anything like that in them.

 

Sure, the Wii was immensely successful, but it might as well have been a toaster for the amount it grew the Nintendo audience. I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but I know so many gamers that are in no way bloodthirsty or immature, but haven't touched Nintendo since they started their "Wii" and "Wii U" venture. Generally, they are fans of Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye and Metroid Prime, and made Twilight Princess their last Nintendo game (GameCube version, of course). They just don't want the hassle with the weird controllers the company has insisted on ever since. I would say "their loss", but it isn't really, is it? I'm sure people will bring up Mario Galaxy, but it really is just a good game, not something to justify the whole ethos Nintendo has had for the past two generations.

 

Sorry, but I'm just tired of the N64/GameCube approach continually being seen as not viable. In those days, Nintendo made games that were critically acclaimed, commercially successful (unless you're immensely greedy) and enchanted generations of gamers. Maybe, just maybe, it's that sort of thing that will keep an audience interested more than anything else? People can knock that approach all they want, but when Nintendo stuck to that ethos they never had an annual loss three years in a row. Nor did they chase their tails forever, desperately trying to come up with 3rd pillar after 3rd pillar.

[liger05]

Why does Nintendo seem to think the only two options are either "copy Microsoft and Sony" or "go casual"? What saddens me is that they don't realise they have changed, regardless of what the competition's like. They don't seem to remember they used to put out profit-making hardware (N64/GC), even if the sales were fairly modest. They don't seem to remember their old consoles had no gimmicks; instead, they had reasonable price points and gave the feeling you were getting your full money's worth of processing power.

 

Remember how Nintendo's software used to be so much more artistic? It wasn't just "Fun! Fun! Fun! Innovation! Innovation! Innovation!" all the time. Nintendo's games actually used to make you feel emotions. I will never forget the way Link left Termina, having made friends with the SkullKid. Or those ReDeads leaping on him in Ocarina of Time, or how Nabooru implied she would thank him more generously if he was older. Over the past eight years, I have started most Nintendo games knowing they'll be fun and mechanically-sound, but won't really have anything like that in them.

 

Sure, the Wii was immensely successful, but it might as well have been a toaster for the amount it grew the Nintendo audience. I know this is only anecdotal evidence, but I know so many gamers that are in no way bloodthirsty or immature, but haven't touched Nintendo since they started their "Wii" and "Wii U" venture. Generally, they are fans of Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye and Metroid Prime, and made Twilight Princess their last Nintendo game (GameCube version, of course). They just don't want the hassle with the weird controllers the company has insisted on ever since. I would say "their loss", but it isn't really, is it? I'm sure people will bring up Mario Galaxy, but it really is just a good game, not something to justify the whole ethos Nintendo has had for the past two generations.

 

Sorry, but I'm just tired of the N64/GameCube approach continually being seen as not viable. In those days, Nintendo made games that were critically acclaimed, commercially successful (unless you're immensely greedy) and enchanted generations of gamers. Maybe, just maybe, it's that sort of thing that will keep an audience interested more than anything else? People can knock that approach all they want, but when Nintendo stuck to that ethos they never had an annual loss three years in a row. Nor did they chase their tails forever, desperately trying to come up with 3rd pillar after 3rd pillar.

 

For a company which people seem to think there software is unrivalled and cannot be matched I find it quite bizarre that people seem to think that isn’t enough and they need to also go with gimmicks?

 

Why cant they sell a console on the back of this ‘must play’ software?

 

I really dislike the route Iwata has taken Nintendo down.

[dazzybee]

You're saying how important/awesome/innovative/necessary to the industry these features are, yet clearly most people don't agree. Most people probably couldn't give a shit about Miiverse. It's great that you like it, but you're not going to convince me, or the millions of others who are unhappy with the Wii U right now.

 

Quality doesn't always equal success. But quality is usually recognised. Nintendo produce some quality games, but their hardware is pretty turd.

 

And you say the industry needs Nintendo? For all intents and purposes, the rest of the gaming industry has packed up and left the Wii U. It seems to be doing fine to me.

 

Now who's constant;y stating facts. You say most people don't agree... who are most people?! Because it's not popular? That's literally you're argument, and it is so fusing stupid I don't know why I'm bothering.... The gamecube is Nintendo's worst selling console of all time, now people think it may be their best. Shawshank Redemption bombed at the cinema, it's now regarded as one of the greatest films of all time. Your argument is childish I'm staggered you keep on going post after post....

 

The only thing you said with any intelligence is "miiverse is great that you like, I don't, a millions others don't" (paraphrasing). Now I wish you wouldn't speak for everyone else, but you know what, millions of people HATE EVERYTHING!!!

 

The fact it is unpopular, the fact you don't like it, the fact billions of people don't like it or know it exists MEAN NOTHING ON HOW GOOD IT IS!!! When will you understand this? And my ultimate argument is, the gamepad is still different to what the others are doing, inverse is different to what the others are doing, ads is different o what the other are doing. Even the fact you don't like it, you should realise it is healthy for th industry... Your lack comprehension is stagerring!!

[Sheikah]

Now who's constant;y stating facts. You say most people don't agree... who are most people?!

 

Fuck me, that is some level of denial.

 

You are right. The world loves Nintendo's hardware/console features. The Wii U has some of the absolute best features and Nintendo should look to differentiate from the PS4 at every turn.

[Hogge]

Sorry, but I'm just tired of the N64/GameCube approach continually being seen as not viable. In those days, Nintendo made games that were critically acclaimed, commercially successful (unless you're immensely greedy) and enchanted generations of gamers. Maybe, just maybe, it's that sort of thing that will keep an audience interested more than anything else? People can knock that approach all they want, but when Nintendo stuck to that ethos they never had an annual loss three years in a row. Nor did they chase their tails forever, desperately trying to come up with 3rd pillar after 3rd pillar.

 

Amen to that.

I remember the sheer variety of first party content we got on the N64 and GC. And how most games embraced 3D to a hundred percent, creating exciting worlds to explore.

 

If Nintendo could find that again, I think the Wii U could be easily saved.

[Goron_3]

Now who's constant;y stating facts. You say most people don't agree... who are most people?! Because it's not popular? That's literally you're argument, and it is so fusing stupid I don't know why I'm bothering.... The gamecube is Nintendo's worst selling console of all time, now people think it may be their best. Shawshank Redemption bombed at the cinema, it's now regarded as one of the greatest films of all time. Your argument is childish I'm staggered you keep on going post after post....

 

The only thing you said with any intelligence is "miiverse is great that you like, I don't, a millions others don't" (paraphrasing). Now I wish you wouldn't speak for everyone else, but you know what, millions of people HATE EVERYTHING!!!

 

The fact it is unpopular, the fact you don't like it, the fact billions of people don't like it or know it exists MEAN NOTHING ON HOW GOOD IT IS!!! When will you understand this? And my ultimate argument is, the gamepad is still different to what the others are doing, inverse is different to what the others are doing, ads is different o what the other are doing. Even the fact you don't like it, you should realise it is healthy for th industry... Your lack comprehension is stagerring!!

 

At this point I MUST point out that, even in these early days, I think we all know that the Wii U is NOT the Shawshank Redemption of video games. I mean, come on.

 

At best, it's Rocky V.

[dazzybee]

Fuck me, that is some level of denial.

 

You are right. The world loves Nintendo's hardware/console features. The Wii U has some of the absolute best features and Nintendo should look to differentiate from the PS4 at every turn.

 

Seriously question. How old are you? It's going to seem like I'm taking the piss but I actually want to know.

 

That's not what I said at all, YET AGAIN, you resort to these demeaning tactics, basically lying about what others say, you do it all the tim and it is so boring. You have an absolute inability to have a proper discussion without resorting to these tactics to give more weight to your views.

[Daft]

Cool it guys.

[Hero-of-Time]

Cracking post from Gaf which echoes some of my concerns and puts them across far better than I ever could.

 

Here's what I got from the meeting last night:

 

- Nintendo thinks the 3DS is doing fine. They didn't mention it. It's clearly the stronger of their two pieces of hardware, there's no denying that. But I don't think it's correct to assert that it's not a cause for concern. Even with Pokemon's strong results out of the gate, there's been significant overall software erosion in both first-party and third-party categories. I think this is a risk. It's a risk because less licensing revenue from third parties means Nintendo has less money to cover their burn rate or hardware R&D losses. It's also a risk because their own software costs more to make and sells less overall. That's not a trend you want to continue going forward. To me, the Wii U's failure seems relatively minor in comparison to some of the generation-over-generation structural comparisons for the 3DS. I would be worried about that going forward.

 

- Nintendo thinks there's no real problem with what the Wii U is, but rather with how they've taken advantage of the Wii U. They've cited their failure to communicate the GamePad's value and their failure to deliver must-have software. It does not seem clear that they've acknowledged any possible weakness in the GamePad conceptually. I think their first product to "emphasize the GamePad" being Mario Kart, and their "emphasis" being that the Wii U apparently boots up faster than your TV (which is clearly not true) suggests that there are conceptual weaknesses in the product. It feels like kicking the can down the road a little. They've repeatedly said before that when they do poorly "it's because they didn't release software that consumers valued" and to do well they will "release software that consumers value". This seems like a pretty vague, almost circular definition. The trick is to figure out why consumers did not value the software, and Nintendo doesn't seem as clear about that. I think there are real challenges at the software pricepoint they're at. I think there are also game design challenges, even with some of the amazing games they're releasing.

 

- I think NFC games are interesting and obviously a genre that's proven lucrative. I have skepticism they're going to materially change the platform for several reasons. The first is that those games are already available on Wii U, but also on every other platform. There's nothing about the Wii U gamepad's NFC reader that can't be accomplished with current implementations. I do think Nintendo can have software success with an NFC game. The other risk is that figurine games require significant retailer buy-in, which I don't think will be a problem in the US, but in countries where the Wii U has already lost retailer stock space I'm not sure they'll be able to find sufficient support for NFC stuff.

 

- To me, as a briefing, this basically felt like a company saying "We're doing ok. We don't need to make major changes. We're working on stuff for the future, and we've got great stuff coming down the pipeline." It did not feel like a company unveiling a bold new direction for the future in the face of massive investor pressure and worry about the company's continued stability.

 

- The idea of moving to accounts and a real networked ecosystem is a good thing, no doubt. Everyone supports that. It's a little baffling that it was presented in philosophical terms, as though it was discovered conceptually but still years away from being implemented in reality. The rest of the world moved to device-agnostic content networks a long time ago. iTunes at the turn of the millennium. Gaming in 2006-2008.

 

- The "we're going to market our stuff on smartphones and then people will buy our hardware" claim makes no sense. Sorry. "We're going to connect with our customers on smartphones and then people will buy our hardware". The difference between marketing and connection is that consumers don't like marketing but do like connection? Anyway... I don't think providing another outlet for consumers to get info and updates is a bad thing. But I also don't think it's going to materially change things. Like, I feel like the problem is that the hypothetical consumer on a subway checking their Nintendo app is actually satisfied with the device they're using and carrying. The games and non-game options they have in the palm of their hand. Right, like I think that's the actual problem with Nintendo's offerings right now and this doesn't resolve that.

 

- I think their efforts to expand into developing markets will pay massive dividends. Sony has done very well in EMEA markets. BRIC are the great nut every business is trying to crack. I totally support that. And licensing is always good, but mostly the frosting on top of a vibrant product business rather than a business on its own. Still, these are good ideas.

 

and then...

- Health and Lifestyle products. First, I think diversifying is a good thing for Nintendo. I think having other streams of revenue is a good thing. I think there's a lot of money to be made in health and lifestyle products. But I have pretty significant reservations about what Nintendo is talking about. I don't think releasing another hardware device with another software ecosystem is diversifying. And to be clear, that's 100% what they're talking about here. They're not talking about releasing paper calorie diaries or resistance bands or paint-by-numbers kits. They're clearly talking about something that you carry around with you, even if it's "not wearable".

 

- So they're either talking about a self-contained device or they're talking about a hardware platform with software. Self-contained devices are dead. Dead dead dead. No one is making them in any product category anymore. The growth market is in devices that communicate with each other. The fitness market is all about smart monitors that communicate with your smart phone and each other and allow you to export and remix data and put it through rich web services. My worry is that if Nintendo enters this market, they won't have a best-of-breed product because they'll basically be re-inventing the wheel. And if they tether stuff to a new piece of hardware, why not just get fitness products that work with the smartphone you already have? I own Personal Trainer: Walking. It's neat. But today I wouldn't buy it because for the same money or less I'd get a better pedometer with more flexible data reporting tethered to devices that are more well suited for recording and analysis. That's my worry.

 

- Nintendo's approach to fitness stuff historically has been a very eastern "wellness" type approach. Wii Fit emphasizes "balance", rather than fitness. If you try to compare Wii Fit to other fitness games, like EA Sports Active or Zumba or Your Shape or the Kinect Nike Fit game, you'll see the difference immediately. The pedometer and the emphasis on steps and walking is similarly a sort of wellness approach. They released Face Training (Facening), which is based on some sort of Japanese beauty fad where you make funny faces in the mirror and you become more relaxed and beautiful. I can't comment on whether that approach will do well in Japan long-term. But I don't think it will do well in the US or Europe long-term. To the extent that there's a demand for "Wellness" type approaches, I think Yoga is pretty much the only eastern technique that would have much resonance over here. Wii Fit was a blue ocean product for sure--no one had quite synthesized fitness software in that way. But now there are dozens of competitors, and many of those competitors work with leading fitness companies and experts and I think Nintendo would be at a disadvantage today, in 2014.

 

- I also read a lot about educational products. Learning to draw, books and reading, early childhood education, tactile experiences for both infants and children with disabilities who need sensory stimulation, etc. I do not believe Nintendo would make a best-of-breed product in these categories. There's been a lot of art options emerge over the last few years. One great thing about smartphones and tablets is that developers talk to each other, learn from each other, iterate quickly. A lot of the first-generation best software on tablets has been dethroned by subsequent software. A lot of services build on each other and integrate with each other. Lots of applications support exporting to Dropbox or whatever. It's very handy. For books, there have been a lot of companies doing book sales, and a lot of initiatives in the area of childrens and educational books. I trust Apple and Amazon's abilities to go out and meet with publishers and developers and build systems that encourage content more than I trust Nintendo's. It's difficult for me to see a product niche within the broader lifestyle category that is not already filled with strong competitors who strike me as having a better foundation to compete.

 

- Where does Nintendo think their casual market went? Okay, so people bought Brain Training and Wii Fit and Nintendogs and Big Brain Academy and Personal Trainer: Cooking and Personal Trainer: Walking and 100 English Books and whatever else Nintendo released. Those were all successful products. But demand in that market segment just evaporated. Where does Nintendo think those people are today? Why did Nintendogs on 3DS tank in comparison? Why did Brain Training tank so badly it can't even get a retail release in a major territory? Why is Wii Fit an also-ran, as we'll see over the coming months? What happened to the demand? This is an important question because the idea of launching all these products and more similar products as part of a new company approach is predicated on understanding why they left and how to get them back. The 3DS costs a little more than the DS did, but not much. So it's not hardware buy-in. I believe it's because those people either are not conceptually interested anymore, or are but have found more satisfying product options elsewhere. So the first question I'd ask about launching new non-game focused products or casual game focused products is--how are we solving the problem that we have in the first place?

 

- I legitimately believe that Japanese companies who are Japan-focused first but need global sales are going to have an increasingly difficult time penetrating the US market. The Silicon Valley tech culture is incredibly fast-paced, competitive, and enormous. The old ways of developing a business don't stand up to it, and Japan doesn't have a similar area or process for incubating aggressive start-ups (in part due to increased employee retention and less turnover in the employment culture there). I'm not an expert when it comes to Japan, but if I were a Japanese company I'd be either thinking global or thinking a lot more local and giving up on global expansion.

 

I am very open to Nintendo making products that aren't games. I am very open to Nintendo making products that don't target me. But I am not convinced they understand the challenges they face, and I am not convinced based on the preliminary information they're offering that their secret master plan that they'll reveal later is likely to be a home run. I leave open the possibility that it'll be a single or a double. I am interested both as a consumer and in terms of their ongoing business success, and neither angle is super promising to me right now.

[Debug Mode]

I wouldn't mind Pokemon on a smartphone Nintendo (turn based RPG's are fine without physical buttons).

 

I'm really curious as to how this is all going to pan out this year, but this doesn't seem urgent enough. Was there any mention at all about the problems within the European market? That should be something they need to tackle ASAP.

 

I think Nintendo might need to further infiltrate the mobile market, and now would be a very good time to start considering a micro 3DS. It's a shame the thing has so many buttons though, a micro 3DS would be facing lots of issues in the ergonomics department.

[Sheikah]

/Upset

 

Then what point are you trying to make? I made the point that Nintendo isn't really coming up with features that people want, you argue that they are actually innovative and really good.

 

It's all opinion and preference at the end of the day, but I don't think if they were that groundbreakingly innovative / cornerstone to the industry that Nintendo would be faring so badly right now. I really don't rate Miiverse at all.

 

(A small point, but I really don't think you're in the position to be questioning people's maturity).