Nintendo Investors Meeting ( now in english )

[Serebii]

So in 2 years time we'll know the GamePad is worth having? The time is now.

Games don't just materialise. Development is a process.

 

Now remembering I am one who likes the Gamepad I do have to ask...

 

What would have to be recoded if they dropped the GP and sold it seperatly?

 

Any consoles packaged with say a Pro Controller and without a GP would just need a patch so that on startup it boots the menu to the TV instead of the Gamepad.

 

Could also roll out that patch to all current WiiU's in an update so that you could for example turn on the console using the Pro Controller and if you had a GamePad it wouldn't turn on unless it's own power button was pressed and again the console would then know there was no GP in use and therefor put boot with the menu on the TV.

 

I hardly think such a patch would require "considerable manpower".

 

What else? Miiverse, so for those without a GP give them an onscreen keyboard or USB Keyboard support. The only thing they lose is the ability to draw.

 

And then games that require the GamePad.... well that's no different than games that required Wii Motion+, if you want to play the game get the Pad simple as. It's not like there are many games that require it anyway is there?

 

I can only think of 3. NintendoLand, ZombiU and maybe Deus Ex (don't think you can use the Pro Controller with Deux Ex) So it's not like there's a massive amount of games that would be effected.

It's tricky. The entire OS would have to be recoded due to it, especially in regards to eShop, Miiverse etc. Yeah a patch could do it, but it'd still require a lot of work.

[Happenstance]

Them giving discounts to gamers who buy loads of games is great and all but its not exactly going to fix the problem they currently have of old full price games on shelves putting people off.

[Serebii]

True, but if their new "3rd pillar" is focused sole on "non-core" games for the "expanded audience" then they are not likely to be putting "core" games on it.

 

I was trying to say with the DS, at least that catered for both sides, this new 3rd pillar (it appears) won't.

Well last time, I believe calling it a third pillar was just a get out of jail free card in case it flopped, so that they still had the GameBoy line to fall back on. This time, it truly is a third pillar, and they can always shift that software back to the consoles if it doesn't do well

[Ramar]

Games don't just materialise. Development is a process.

 

Exactly my point.

 

Say Nintendo put these plans into effect now and need another 2 years to develop the software to really show off the GamePad. The console will have been out for 3 years. Is that really acceptable? They've gloriously messed up this console.

 

Imagine what Sony and Microsoft will have out in two years time.

[liger05]

Them giving discounts to gamers who buy loads of games is great and all but its not exactly going to fix the problem they currently have of old full price games on shelves putting people off.

 

With a proper account system I can see the appeal but the problem right now is software isnt selling as well as it should be yet see no quotes from Iwata and how they plan to address that?

 

Exactly my point.

 

Say Nintendo put these plans into effect now and need another 2 years to develop the software to really show off the GamePad. The console will have been out for 3 years. Is that really acceptable? They've gloriously messed up this console.

 

Imagine what Sony and Microsoft will have out in two years time.

 

It shows that there was no real plan with the gamepad other than tablets are popular so Nintendo hoped people would jump on a console which had a tablet style controller.

[Serebii]

Exactly my point.

 

Say Nintendo put these plans into effect now and need another 2 years to develop the software to really show off the GamePad. The console will have been out for 3 years. Is that really acceptable? They've gloriously messed up this console.

 

Imagine what Sony and Microsoft will have out in two years time.

I'd imagine that this has been their plan for a while, they're just spouting it now to appease investors.

 

I have no doubt that at least 5 of these titles will hit this year.

[Ramar]

I'd imagine that this has been their plan for a while, they're just spouting it now to appease investors.

 

I have no doubt that at least 5 of these titles will hit this year.

 

For their sake, I hope you're right.

[Sheikah]

Proof? Well, you can't control the Wii U without the GamePad. Many games have features that won't work without the GamePad. Ergo, they'd need to rework the entire OS and those games for it. The fact you can't see that is astonishing.

 

What is astonishing is your fabricated 'inside knowledge'.

 

I asked for proof that the work would be considerable. For all we know, it might not be that difficult at all - or at least not enough to put them off the option. Maybe they have even already achieved such a thing? Don't pretend to know everything, else you come across as knowing nothing.

 

It truly seems that you want Nintendo to be a "me too" company. If that's the case, then you picked the wrong company to support. They have never been that.

 

Of course - I want Nintendo to become a 'me too'. A 'me too' in terms of 'I'm successful too'.

[Serebii]

You may question my views, but I am also somewhat of software programmer. I know first hand that things like this aren't as simple as flicking a variable from on to off. It takes work, and a lot of testing. It has nothing to do with inside knowledge, but of knowledge of software.

[Dcubed]

Exactly my point.

 

Say Nintendo put these plans into effect now and need another 2 years to develop the software to really show off the GamePad. The console will have been out for 3 years. Is that really acceptable? They've gloriously messed up this console.

 

Imagine what Sony and Microsoft will have out in two years time.

 

They already said that these games will be shown at E3 this year, so I think it's safe to say that they've been in development for a while (and one of them is undoubtedly Zelda Wii U)

 

Seriously. Does nobody even bother to read the Investor Briefing!?

Edited January 30, 2014 by Dcubed

[Jonnas]

What is astonishing is your fabricated 'inside knowledge'.

 

What inside knowledge? His guesses? He never claimed they were anything else (unless I missed something), don't put words into his mouth.

 

That said "dropping the Gamepad" could be something as easy as making it an accessory in theory (at least that's what I think you believe), but if the system itself (OS, Miiverse, main menus, etc.) needs it, then some major recoding would be in order. And you don't need proof to know that's a big task, especially when you would need to patch/replace the Wii Us that were already sold.

[Hogge]

What is astonishing is your fabricated 'inside knowledge'.

 

I asked for proof that the work would be considerable. For all we know, it might not be that difficult at all - or at least not enough to put them off the option. Maybe they have even already achieved such a thing? Don't pretend to know everything, else you come across as knowing nothing.

 

 

 

Of course - I want Nintendo to become a 'me too'. A 'me too' in terms of 'I'm successful too'.

 

We have the problem with all the software for the Wii U that actually requires the gamepad to perform certain tasks, that's a problem we'll never get around. People buy Wii U games for their Wii today, despite the color of the box being different and the logo on the boxart is different. What do you reckon would happen if people would be able to buy Wii U's without the tablet and would somehow have to know which games require it and which don't? Even if future non-tablet games would have their boxes in a further yet different colour and have stamps stating "this game does not require the tablet. If a game does not have this label, you are required to have a tablet", people would still buy the wrong games.

[Goron_3]

You may question my views, but I am also somewhat of software programmer. I know first hand that things like this aren't as simple as flicking a variable from on to off. It takes work, and a lot of testing. It has nothing to do with inside knowledge, but of knowledge of software.

 

They have staff....

 

I don't understand why they are keen to keep pushing the Gamepad and are only NOW saying that they will release software to support it?! I'm mind boggled...Nintendo Land came out in 2012; did they assume that it would suffice as a way of pushing the GamePad for 2-3 years? Or did they think that 3rd parties would use it well, i.e. ZombiU.

[Serebii]

They already said that these games will be shown at E3 this year, so I think it's safe to say that they've been in development for a while (and one of them is undoubtedly Zelda Wii U)

 

Seriously. Does nobody even bother to read the Investor Briefing!?

Indeed. Nintendo has adopted an approach of late, where for the most part they intend to reveal games as close to release as possible. They sort of ruined that in January with X/Yoshi/SMTvFE, but otherwise that is their policy.

[Sheikah]

What inside knowledge? His guesses? He never claimed they were anything else (unless I missed something), don't put words into his mouth.

 

 

He is again countering comments with opinion but in a manner like fact.

 

'They won't drop the gamepad because of the work involved with changing the OS'.

 

By all means he can have his opinion, but when you say things in a manner like he knows what he is talking about/has inside knowledge (when he doesn't) then a simple 'proof?' is all that's needed to knock his comment down.

[Serebii]

They have staff....

 

I don't understand why they are keen to keep pushing the Gamepad and are only NOW saying that they will release software to support it?! I'm mind boggled...Nintendo Land came out in 2012; did they assume that it would suffice as a way of pushing the GamePad for 2-3 years? Or did they think that 3rd parties would use it well, i.e. ZombiU.

When did I say they didn't? I said it would require a lot of work. I never said it couldn't be done. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Serebii

[Sheikah]

You may question my views, but I am also somewhat of software programmer. I know first hand that things like this aren't as simple as flicking a variable from on to off. It takes work, and a lot of testing. It has nothing to do with inside knowledge, but of knowledge of software.

Most likely you know very little about Nintendo's OS and I am extremely dubious of whatever qualification you claim to have.

[Mokong]

 

It's tricky. The entire OS would have to be recoded due to it, especially in regards to eShop, Miiverse etc. Yeah a patch could do it, but it'd still require a lot of work.

 

The entire OS? How so?

 

A lot of the OS works without the GamePad already.

 

If you press the X button on the Pro Controller it swaps the menu and Miiverse Plaza screens so that the Menu is on the TV and you can control the menu and select games/apps with withe Pro Controller already.

 

All that would be needed in the case of the Menu is for the WiiU to be able to recognise there is no GamePad turned on so that it automatically pushes the Menu to the TV. Pretty sure the console can already recognise the different controllers when they are turned on (ie: it knows if you turned on a Wiimote or a Pro COntroller)... pretty sure I remember someone here saying if they don't want to waste GP battery they leave it in a different room so it doesn't turn on when the console powers up so the console is already capable of working without a GP turned on.

 

All it needs then is to then know which screen to put on the TV if no GP is found, this mainly for the benifit of new-owners that might be unaware you can toggle the menu/plaza with a button press.

 

 

In regards to the eShop, that already displays on the TV, all that would be needed would be added support for Pro COntroller and Wiimote controls.

 

Hell it works just fine without the touch screen already as I often navigate eShop using the buttons and sticks on the GamePad rather than the touch screen.

 

For something like the System Settings app, which only displays on the GP (don't know if you can currently move it tothe TV, never tried???), again similar to the Home Menu, if the console doesn't detect a GP in use then it pushes the display to the TV and they just need o add Pro Controller/Wiimote support.

 

And again for Miiverse, onscreen keyboard and/or USB Keyboard support...I think actually does the console already support USB Keyboards? Pretty sure it does for MH3U anyway.

 

I hardly think these changes constitute and "total OS overhaul".

 

And the way you say it would take up "considerable manpower" is a non-issue.

 

What so just cause it would take hard work they shouldn't do it?

 

Any patches they've made to the system since launch likely cost "considerable manpower" so by your logical they should have just left the console at it's day one patch and never did anything else?

 

Iwata mentioned plans for another "Summer Update" for this year, I bet that is costing "considerable manpower", maybe they should stop that and work on something else.

 

The development of the Wind Waker HD remake must have cost "considerable manpower" too, perhaps they shouldn't have bothered with that maybe we'd then be closer to having a new Zelda if they didn't waste rescources on WWHD.

 

Hell back in the NES days, I'm sure R&D and development of the SNES would have cost "considerable manpower", why didn't they just use that man power to focus on more NES games.

 

Development of the Wii U and Gamepad certainly cost them considerable manpower that they could have used elsewhere on other ideas but this is the road they decided to walk on and they have used up "considerable manpower" in making various mistakes that have put the WiiU where it is today.

 

This 3rd pillar QoL idea will certainly take up considerable manpower that I would think should be best used on fixing problems with the WiiU.

 

While I don;t think my ideas for how a WiiU could work without a Gamepad would be that difficult to implement I would like to see other more meaningful changes made, stuff that would actually require an OS overhal.

 

Proper Online options, voice chat at the OS level, pop up notifications for when someone comes online or sends you a PM, maybe even the ability to check PM's without having to pause the game you are currently in. Game invites.

 

All that stuff would indeed take "considerable manpower" and it is manpower I would like to used on making the Wii U better than wasted on a 3rd Pillar chasing an expanded market at the cost of their long time "core" customers

[Serebii]

Most likely you know very little about Nintendo's OS and I am extremely dubious of whatever qualification you claim to have.

You mean a Bachelor Degree with honours in Computing & Internet Technology, with a focus on software programming? Ok. Maybe if I had an art degree I could have a better view on how software works.

 

The entire OS? How so?

 

A lot of the OS works without the GamePad already.

 

If you press the X button on the Pro Controller it swaps the menu and Miiverse Plaza screens so that the Menu is on the TV and you can control the menu and select games/apps with withe Pro Controller already.

 

All that would be needed in the case of the Menu is for the WiiU to be able to recognise there is no GamePad turned on so that it automatically pushes the Menu to the TV. Pretty sure the console can already recognise the different controllers when they are turned on (ie: it knows if you turned on a Wiimote or a Pro COntroller)... pretty sure I remember someone here saying if they don't want to waste GP battery they leave it in a different room so it doesn't turn on when the console powers up so the console is already capable of working without a GP turned on.

 

All it needs then is to then know which screen to put on the TV if no GP is found, this mainly for the benifit of new-owners that might be unaware you can toggle the menu/plaza with a button press.

 

 

In regards to the eShop, that already displays on the TV, all that would be needed would be added support for Pro COntroller and Wiimote controls.

 

Hell it works just fine without the touch screen already as I often navigate eShop using the buttons and sticks on the GamePad rather than the touch screen.

 

For something like the System Settings app, which only displays on the GP (don't know if you can currently move it tothe TV, never tried???), again similar to the Home Menu, if the console doesn't detect a GP in use then it pushes the display to the TV and they just need o add Pro Controller/Wiimote support.

 

And again for Miiverse, onscreen keyboard and/or USB Keyboard support...I think actually does the console already support USB Keyboards? Pretty sure it does for MH3U anyway.

 

I hardly think these changes constitute and "total OS overhaul".

 

And the way you say it would take up "considerable manpower" is a non-issue.

 

What so just cause it would take hard work they shouldn't do it?

 

Any patches they've made to the system since launch likely cost "considerable manpower" so by your logical they should have just left the console at it's day one patch and never did anything else?

 

Iwata mentioned plans for another "Summer Update" for this year, I bet that is costing "considerable manpower", maybe they should stop that and work on something else.

 

The development of the Wind Waker HD remake must have cost "considerable manpower" too, perhaps they shouldn't have bothered with that maybe we'd then be closer to having a new Zelda if they didn't waste rescources on WWHD.

 

Hell back in the NES days, I'm sure R&D and development of the SNES would have cost "considerable manpower", why didn't they just use that man power to focus on more NES games.

 

Development of the Wii U and Gamepad certainly cost them considerable manpower that they could have used elsewhere on other ideas but this is the road they decided to walk on and they have used up "considerable manpower" in making various mistakes that have put the WiiU where it is today.

 

This 3rd pillar QoL idea will certainly take up considerable manpower that I would think should be best used on fixing problems with the WiiU.

 

While I don;t think my ideas for how a WiiU could work without a Gamepad would be that difficult to implement I would like to see other more meaningful changes made, stuff that would actually require an OS overhal.

 

Proper Online options, voice chat at the OS level, pop up notifications for when someone comes online or sends you a PM, maybe even the ability to check PM's without having to pause the game you are currently in. Game invites.

 

All that stuff would indeed take "considerable manpower" and it is manpower I would like to used on making the Wii U better than wasted on a 3rd Pillar chasing an expanded market at the cost of their long time "core" customers

The initial home screen is the easy bit, yeah, but everything else would require patching/significant testing to work since they're all designed around the GamePad.

 

I do agree though that the third pillar could take things away, but we need to remember that Nintendo are rapidly expanding, so it may not take away too much, if at all.

[Ramar]

Seriously. Does nobody even bother to read the Investor Briefing!?

 

I'll be honest, no. And I really shouldn't be bothered. It was a meeting for investors. Not us consumers. But it's the sorry state they've found themselves in that fans are clamouring for information.

[Sheikah]

You mean a Bachelor Degree with honours in Computing & Internet Technology, with a focus on software programming? Ok. Maybe if I had an art degree I could have a better view on how software works.

 

That's like me pretending I automatically understand the intricacies of the latest stem cell find because I have a degree in cell biology. It simply doesn't work that way.

 

Unless you have inside knowledge of the OS and its coding then what can you claim to know? It could be extremely laborious to change, or with a team of talented staff it could take not too long at all. Stop reaching.

[Mokong]

The initial home screen is the easy bit, yeah, but everything else would require patching/significant testing to work since they're all designed around the GamePad.

 

But their not designed "around" the Gamepad they just currently only work with it.

 

Again eShop is also displayed on the TV and works just fine using the GamePads buttons and Sticks ...the SAME buttons and sticks on the Pro Controller I'd hardly think just getting the app to recognise the Pro Controller would be that difficult.

 

Just checked the System Settings app and that too can be navigated and opertaed using just the buttons and sticks on the GamePad again the same inputs as on the Pro Controller.

 

Of course it would take some amount of time to create such a patch but I do not think the idea that "oh it'll take too much work best not bother" as you are suggesting is a valid enough reason for not doing it if the idea for creating console bundles without a GamePad were on the table.

 

I do agree though that the third pillar could take things away, but we need to remember that Nintendo are rapidly expanding, so it may not take away too much, if at all.

 

I could say the very same then about then using manpower to make the suggested OS patch changes if they were gonna make the GP optional.

[dazzybee]

Oh look what this place has descended into. Sheikah, if anyone bar serebii said "they won't drop the gamepad because it'll be too much work" you wouldn't have blinked. We do not need to qualify everything we say with "in my opinion", read what he says and counter act, don't try and demean him by saying he stating everything as fact and coming across high and mighty. It's such a crass status tactic to abuse myths and perceptions about people.

 

Anyway. This was for investors may we add. Not for fans. People here, me included, and also you sheikah, are making opinions, stating them as almost facts, when we've been given no information. That's fine, we can on,y work with what we have and our opinions, but stop slamming others for doing the same.

 

Nintendo may announce a direct next week and announce a bug game before mario kart, and a few ESOP games, they could announce anything.

 

I find the whole thing quite weird admittedly, but actually I'm excited to see what they will do with the gamepad. It's truly bizarre so many of their games haven't used it, but when it's used well it's exciting, so bring it on. At least they're trying something differnt, which should always be applauded in any industry. They're brave. And innovative.

 

This news is stuff for investors and shareholders to see promise. Now ninte do need to speak to us and excite us, because they most definitely haven't done that.

[david.dakota]

 

I'm just glad I'm in Paris and have stupid amounts of games to get through anyway. Come back for mario kart and then hopefully the wave of games.

 

Do not touch The Last of Us with that shitty little TV of yours.

[Jonnas]

'They won't drop the gamepad because of the work involved with changing the OS'.

 

Assuming it's the same kind of work associated with "dropping the Wiimote from the Wii", then it's easy to see why it would be difficult. The Wii is wired to work with that remote, and dropping it would involve redesigning menus, recoding and redesigning the entire console.

 

The Wii U is probably not as dependant with the gamepad as the Wii with its remotes... but it probably is, at a fundamental level.