Taboo Topics

[The Bard]

There's a difference between finding something personally disgusting and forcing your subjective sensibilities on other people. What the discussion here involves is whether there is something objectively wrong with incest when reproduction is out of the question, not whether we find it disgusting, which is neither here nor there.

[MoogleViper]

I am failing to understand how so many people on here are not disgusted by the thought of incest.

 

You wouldn't think it was so bad if your cousins were as hot as mine.

[Jonnas]

I think it's important to consider that the aversion we feel towards incest isn't caused by its current illegality; rather, it's illegal because we feel a general aversion to it. Making it legal won't suddenly make it widespread or even common. I venture to guess it will remain a fringe thing, and even then there will be rules regarding consent and authority in place to prevent family gatherings from becoming orgies, which is probably the scare scenario people imagine when incest is mentioned. The whole idea is that a pair of consenting adults should be able to be together if they so desire, even if they happen to be blood-related.

 

If it's the legality of the subject we're talking about, then my last sentence sums it up: as long as there is no force or coercion involved, there's no harm.

 

The general aversion to it is still there, however.

 

The thought of me doing it with certain friends disgusts me, doesn't mean everyone shouldn't ever do it with their friends does it? In the same vein, I'm sure lots of heterosexuals see having sex with a man disgusting, that's not necessarily a good reason to be against it.

 

And what Flinky brought up were issues of paedophilia, which would still be illegal regardless of how accepted incest is.

 

Let me rephrase: the thought of anybody doing it with a family member is disgusting. Like I said, two consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to, that much I still believe.

 

I also thought Flinky brought up issues of pre-teens experiments with sexuality resulting in pregnancies more easily. If it wasn't him, I stand corrected, but the issue still exists.

[Diageo]

If it's the legality of the subject we're talking about, then my last sentence sums it up: as long as there is no force or coercion involved, there's no harm.

 

The general aversion to it is still there, however.

 

 

 

Let me rephrase: the thought of anybody doing it with a family member is disgusting. Like I said, two consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want to, that much I still believe.

 

I also thought Flinky brought up issues of pre-teens experiments with sexuality resulting in pregnancies more easily. If it wasn't him, I stand corrected, but the issue still exists.

 

But pre teens are more likely to experiment with friends anyway, both because of the Westermarck effect and because of the innate issues of disgust so apparent in this thread.

[bob]

I am failing to understand how so many people on here are not disgusted by the thought of incest.

 

I think most people are, but we thought we'd have a discussion about it anyway, see what happens.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I think most people are, but we thought we'd have a discussion about it anyway, see what happens.

 

Indeed. The concept of taboo topics really benefits no one and ought to be dealt with; all topics should be discussed openly.

[Beast]

If it was two adults and they were attracted to each other, go right ahead but I'll be honest and say that it would absolutely creep me out. I'm all for love and stuff and I can accept this happens and I can accept them but don't expect me to not be creeped out by it...

[Diageo]

All right, since discussion seems to have died for this topic, let's move to another one.

 

Cure for Homosexuality

If in the future we discover the exact cause of homosexuality, and therefore a way to reverse it. Should all humans be treated so as there is no further discrimination and prejudice? Should mothers be allowed to change a baby's sexuality before they are born, and should people who are homosexual be allowed to get themselves treated if they wanted to?

 

Of course I don't think of homosexuality as a sickness that needs a cure. But if the resources were available, should we allow people to use it, or is it better to not go down this slippery slope?

[MoogleViper]

I think we should allow homosexual adults, who are of sound mind, to "cure" themselves should they wish.

[Cube]

If you rephrase "Cure for Homosexuality" to "the option to adjust your sexual preference to what you want it to be", then it would sound insane to stop consenting adults from undergoing the treatment.

 

If course, nobody should be forced to undergo such a treatment.

[Jonnas]

Being homossexual is not damaging towards yourself or others, therefore it is not an illness, nor should it be treated as such.

 

It's still your choice, should you want to go through with it, but what about those who come out during teenage years, and still subject to their parents' decisions?

 

Should such a procedure ever exist, I see it going the same way lobotomies did.

 

(This was the opinion of a straight male, for the record)

[Goafer]

Here's a taboo subject that's based on the gay cure:

 

If we're always taught that you can't help who you're attracted to and all sexualities are to be tolerated (which I agree with) , and curing homosexuality is wrong (which I believe it is), then should we tolerate people who are attracted to children?

 

Obviously I'm not talking about child molestation, since rape is always rape, but merely someone who has come forward and said that they are finding children attractive and need advice etc. If it's wrong to "cure" someone of their sexuality (which IMO, it is) and you can't choose your sexuality (which IMO, you can't), then what can be done?

 

It's one that I've never had an answer for. I honestly can't endorse curing someone of any sexuality, but what alternatives are there for people who are attracted to children?

[Diageo]

Here's a taboo subject that's based on the gay cure:

 

If we're always taught that you can't help who you're attracted to and all sexualities are to be tolerated (which I agree with) , and curing homosexuality is wrong (which I believe it is), then should we tolerate people who are attracted to children?

 

Obviously I'm not talking about child molestation, since rape is always rape, but merely someone who has come forward and said that they are finding children attractive and need advice etc. If it's wrong to "cure" someone of their sexuality (which IMO, it is) and you can't choose your sexuality (which IMO, you can't), then what can be done?

 

It's one that I've never had an answer for. I honestly can't endorse curing someone of any sexuality, but what alternatives are there for people who are attracted to children?

 

I was gonna get to paedophilia eventually

 

It's a bit tied into bestiality too, where the problem is that the party they're attracted to can never give proper consent, and so really it's their bad luck. Certainly there's nothing we can do to change it at this moment in time, so they have to make do with representations of children such as drawings and virtual reality.

[Goafer]

so they have to make do with representations of children such as drawings and virtual reality.

 

But then is it right to encourage such behaviour? I have literally no idea what the correct course of action is, which is probably why I find it really interesting to discuss. I've never really come across a topic where I have no idea what to think before.

[Diageo]

But then is it right to encourage such behaviour? I have literally no idea what the correct course of action is, which is probably why I find it really interesting to discuss. I've never really come across a topic where I have no idea what to think before.

 

Well it could act as a release so they don't have to do it for real. I think the only course of action would be to teach the person to control their urges so that it's not manifested, in any manner that is not detrimental to others.

 

I don't think we can say whether that should be encouraged or not until there is research on repressing over expressing paedophilic thoughts.

[flameboy]

As someone who works in the special education field and has seen the rise in the number individuals needing support who are from cultures where the constant marrying of first cousins (technically illegal as incest)....is partaken in I can't help but say it is wrong from a moral stand point. I can't remember who or what but a great deal of research is going in to the long term effects of interbreeding and how it can lead to increased chance of learning difficulties such as autism etc. It's already been proven that incest can lead to physical deformities, however the long term effects of systemic incest are unknown. So I'd say morally yeah it's wrong why would you want do that and force a human into an extreme shitty life of hardship and toil? Obviously this is just one instance of incest but the only real "experience" I have with it. Especially when such relationships can happen for financially convenient reasons.

 

Then again tho just because "we" say one way of life is wrong? This has been happening for centuries (something worth nothing disabled children would have been left to die far more recently than you would like to think) and is just something that has been made taboo because we are made to think it is. We live in an era where the walls of sexuality have been broken down much to the disgust of some of the older generation, whose to say the same won't be true of incest? Like I have no issue with homosexuality for example but would not partake in it myself, whose to say tomorrows generation won't be same with incest. Urgh it feels wrong even thinking that could happen (something I'm sure people think about homosexuality)

 

I think it's wrong and disgusting in a nutshell.

 

I was gonna get to paedophilia eventually

 

It's a bit tied into bestiality too, where the problem is that the party they're attracted to can never give proper consent, and so really it's their bad luck. Certainly there's nothing we can do to change it at this moment in time, so they have to make do with representations of children such as drawings and virtual reality.

 

See I've often thought about this and not wanted to start a thread as it's not a comfortable topic to randomly raise.

 

I often wonder in this day and age why can't someone who feels themselves having pedophilia urges/tendencies go to their Doctor for a diagnosis/help/support/guidance? We work so hard to help other mental illnesses yet with paedophiles we wait for them to commit a crime so we can then throw the book at them and label them monsters. Like surely the reason we have such active treatments on bipolar disorders and the like is to avoid episodes that could lead to the harm of a person or others?! Rather than let them carry on acting the way they do until they do something. (of course this does happens look at the american shootings where afterwards a history of mental illness is discovered)

[Jonnas]

Being homossexual is not damaging towards yourself or others, therefore it is not an illness, nor should it be treated as such.

 

Regarding Paedophilia, it's a different matter. Since any attempt at any sexual relation is rape by definition, then it does hurt others. Should there be a cure for it, I'd advocate for calling it that.

 

For now, I will say that paedophilia should be treated as a mental illness, and if drawings or virtual reality can reign in a paedophile's urges, then I'm also for their use (but not actual child pornography, of course).

[flameboy]

Regarding Paedophilia, it's a different matter. Since any attempt at any sexual relation is rape by definition, then it does hurt others. Should there be a cure for it, I'd advocate for calling it that.

 

For now, I will say that paedophilia should be treated as a mental illness, and if drawings or virtual reality can reign in a paedophile's urges, then I'm also for their use (but not actual child pornography, of course).

 

But how will this ever happen when society doesn't accept people admitting they have a problem and allow them to set about seeking help for such urges? We champion people who deal with certain mental illnesses yet don't gives others the same chance

Edited December 30, 2013 by flameboy

[Jonnas]

But how will this ever happen when society doesn't accept people admitting they have a problem and allow them to set about seeking help for such urges? We champion people who deal with certain mental illnesses yet don't gives others the same chance

 

That, I don't know.

 

The only related story I've ever heard was of a guy who got arrested for having loli hentai on his computer (because it qualifies as child porn), so I suppose a starting point would be for the psychiatric community to recognize it as a disease and defend the use of such pornography as a harmless "treatment" of sorts (like medical marijuana). With that attitude, soon enough, society would start recognizing it as a dangerous mental illness (like with psychopaths), which is a step up from now.

 

But that's all conjecture, of course.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

If ever it becomes possible to "choose" your own sexuality with the help of science, it only seems right that adults should have the right to choose to do so. We can only hope that acceptance has progressed to the point where a person's hand won't be forced by social stigma.

 

Regarding paedophilia, it seems obvious to me that there's nothing morally wrong about the attraction itself; the problem is of course that there's no morally right way to practice it. I find it highly problematic that, as @flameboy so rightly points out, paedophilia is incredibly stigmatised by society; you never hear a single story depicting paedophiles in a sympathetic light as sufferers of an attraction they obviously didn't choose of their own free accord and would very likely rather be without. As with all problems in society, the answer is not trying to scare people out of doing bad things, it's trying to help them so they don't end up doing bad things in the first place.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Dannyboy-the-Dane

[Diageo]

Does anyone else have any other taboo topics they want to talk about?

[flameboy]

Here's a taboo subject that's based on the gay cure:

 

If we're always taught that you can't help who you're attracted to and all sexualities are to be tolerated (which I agree with) , and curing homosexuality is wrong (which I believe it is), then should we tolerate people who are attracted to children?

 

Obviously I'm not talking about child molestation, since rape is always rape, but merely someone who has come forward and said that they are finding children attractive and need advice etc. If it's wrong to "cure" someone of their sexuality (which IMO, it is) and you can't choose your sexuality (which IMO, you can't), then what can be done?

 

It's one that I've never had an answer for. I honestly can't endorse curing someone of any sexuality, but what alternatives are there for people who are attracted to children?

 

So are you proposing that as our sexual barriers are constantly shifting and the consensus that gay etc is wrong is eroded and broken down. That with time other taboo's will become the same with time? Like I said previously seems frightening and horrifying when you actually think about living in that world.

 

I understand your counter point compared to me @Dannyboy\-the\-Dane proposing the stigma of villianizing such individuals should be removed to help them...but then I suppose once upon time people thought curing homosexuality would come as a result of acceptance. Whereas acceptance has allowed gay culture to rise and people can live proud of their sexuality without prejudice (on the scale of past generations granted it still exists) rather cure.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

So are you proposing that as our sexual barriers are constantly shifting and the consensus that gay etc is wrong is eroded and broken down. That with time other taboo's will become the same with time? Like I said previously seems frightening and horrifying when you actually think about living in that world.

 

I understand your counter point compared to me @Dannyboy\-the\-Dane proposing the stigma of villianizing such individuals should be removed to help them...but then I suppose once upon time people thought curing homosexuality would come as a result of acceptance. Whereas acceptance has allowed gay culture to rise and people can live proud of their sexuality without prejudice (on the scale of past generations granted it still exists) rather cure.

 

I am not entirely certain what you are trying to say, so forgive me if I am mistaken: Are you saying it would be horrifying to live in a world without taboos? Is your fear that paedophilia will become "accepted" as homosexuality is well on its way to? Because if so, I think you fail to understand the core difference between the two: A paedophilic relationship can never be consentual for obvious reasons, thus it will never become morally acceptable in the manner that a homosexual relationship between consenting adults is. What can happen is that instead of villainising those attracted to children, we realise they are people with involuntary tendencies whom we ought to help either control or get rid of said tendencies so they can live a good life. That is why taboos are horrible - because they are illogial and prevent us from making sound judgements on what actually matters.

 

Does anyone else have any other taboo topics they want to talk about?

 

Well, we've already tackled the two greatest taboos I know of. I do have another topic that is potentially taboo:

 

Is democracy the best form of government? And if not, then what is?

[Kav]

Well it could act as a release so they don't have to do it for real. I think the only course of action would be to teach the person to control their urges so that it's not manifested, in any manner that is not detrimental to others.

 

I don't think we can say whether that should be encouraged or not until there is research on repressing over expressing paedophilic thoughts.

 

Would it be a release though?

 

I watch porn and that doesn't give me a release, if anything it makes me want to fuck even more.

 

In regards to "is it simply a sexual preference just like homosexuality is?", I can't quite see it as being that.

 

Would any of you let a paedophile stay in a room alone with your child? If not, would you let someone that is gay stay in a room with your child? If yes, why not the paedophile?

 

People may say that the child would not be at risk being in a room with a homosexual and they would with a paedophile, but then would an adult of the same sex be at risk with in a room with a homosexual?

Not really, because generally speaking the homosexual wouldn't look to commit rape. The paedophile may well do... no?

 

I just don't see it as the same.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Kav

[Blade]

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

Would it be a release though?

 

I watch porn and that doesn't give me a release, if anything it makes me want to fuck even more.

 

Hahahahahaha!!!

 

This made me chuckle. So true, for me anyway!