Goron_3 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Funnily enough my Wii U collection is actually pretty big. I've got about 12 games (3 of which are third party) which isn't too bad. The problem for me is that all the games I have feel completely unambitious. I appreciate HD graphics but when I'm sat here playing all these games with a Wiimote I do wonder if gaming is supposed to have evolved over the last 25 years. They are certainly fun games but it feels like I've played all of these games already (except Splatoon which is ace!). I used to associate Nintendo to being cutting edge and pushing the boundaries of game + level design, whereas now it's clear that the post-GC Nintendo has no intention of going after Western gamers (who carried the N64) and instead want to go after casuals and families. That's all well and good but it makes buying a console a tough ask. In hindsight, it's no surprise that the Wii U sold as badly as it did. Iwata moved them away from the Western focus that the N64 had, hence why they had a huge drop in sales from N64 to Gamecube, and then the casual market left them as well as some of their loyal fanbase. At the moment the only audience they have a tiny portion of passionate followers who will likely buy their consoles no matter what. Who is the NX aimed at? Will they go back to casuals or will they take aim at the 16-35 market again? My concern with Nintendo is that unless one of these markets buys into their consoles again, they will only ever be as strong as they next gimmick, and that's worrying.
Ronnie Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 All consoles have meh launch line-ups these days, nature of the game
Nicktendo Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Interesting to read the various opinions on here about how people's relationship to Nintendo changes. I can relate to what most of you are saying and I'm sure for everyone in this forum there is a strange love / hate relationship with the company. Towards the end of the Wii's lifetime I took a two year break from gaming completely, during the GameCube / Wii era I'd mostly been playing Xbox or PlayStation. My love of Nintendo had been dwindling for almost 10 years before I finally gave up and the 3DS and Wii U were the first Nintendo consoles since the 64 that I didn't buy at launch. I got my Wii U shortly after Mario Kart 8 released and the 3DS a couple of months later. For me, they are the best home console and handheld respectively Nintendo has ever released. I'm having a great time with both consoles and the games have kept me entertained and challenged for hours, which had been happening less and less with each previous generation. I appreciate some genres are severely lacking on Nintendo consoles (particularly racers, sports games and shooters), but on the other hand many genres are very, very well covered. Perhaps it was the break that's made me feel this way, or maybe even the lack of time / desire to even know about what's happening with Xbox / PS, let alone play anything on them. I understand 100% why Nintendo is turning many people away, but as a 'back-to-basics' console without all the online, connected whistles and bells of a modern console, the really stellar library of fun and imaginative games has been more than enough for me on both consoles. Had the Wii U released 15 years earlier, I think more of us'd be in agreement :wink:... But this is 2016, and for many Nintendo's traditionally conservative approach just doesn't cut it anymore. It's a shame, because gameplay wise I strongly believe Nintendo are at the very top of their game right now. Edited February 5, 2016 by Nicktendo
Hero-of-Time Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 I got my Wii U shortly after Mario Kart 8 released and the 3DS a couple of months later. For me, they are the best home console and handheld respectively Nintendo has ever released. The thing is, a lot of us on here bought the Wii U at launch and had to suffer through ( we still are ) massive droughts in the early years. This wasn't a good start and already annoyed a lot of people to the point where they went elsewhere for their gaming goods. The console has a fantastic lineup of games if you are just jumping in now, but for early adopters it left a sour taste in their mouths. I appreciate some genres are severely lacking on Nintendo consoles (particularly racers, sports games and shooters), but on the other hand many genres are very, very well covered. It's not just those, its pretty much any narrative driven game that's missing from the line up. I had some absolutely amazing experiences last year ( and the start of this year ) from story driven games, none of which would ever seen the light of day on the Wii U. I know Nintendo's bread and butter is tight and focused gameplay, but gaming as a whole has come much further than that now and evolved/changed into different things. Perhaps it was the break that's made me feel this way, or maybe even the lack of time / desire to even know about what's happening with Xbox / PS, let alone play anything on them. This is a good point. If you don't know what you're missing out on or don't care what the competition is doing then the Wii U will probably look like a fine piece of kit. Had the Wii U released 15 years earlier, I think more of us'd be in agreement :wink: I dunno, I mean that would put it up against the PS2. We would all be complaining that the Wii U couldn't play DVDs.
Ronnie Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 The console has a fantastic lineup of games if you are just jumping in now, but for early adopters it left a sour taste in their mouths. I know what you mean. I avoided the PS4 at launch because there was barely anything of interest to me for a year or two, but jumping onboard recently it's caught up and there's now a fantastic line up. I do think the jump to HD caused those early Wii U droughts though. Hopefully should be smoother sailing with NX.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 I do think the jump to HD caused those early Wii U droughts though. Hopefully should be smoother sailing with NX. It still baffles me that it caught them off guard. Clearly they do live in a bubble. They only had to look at what every other developer was going through in the PS3/360 generation to see how much of a headache/time sink it could be.
Nicktendo Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 This is a good point. If you don't know what you're missing out on or don't care what the competition is doing then the Wii U will probably look like a fine piece of kit. I think this may have a lot to do with the fact that I'm not in the UK anymore and haven't been for so long. When you're not as exposed to console gaming as a popular mainstream hobby, or when your aren't chatting with your mates about it down at the pub, seeing adverts on TV etc. it's like living in a bubble. My gaming time is a completely isolated experience these. I've never even played, or could probably name off the top of my head, a great story driven game (Something like the Last of Us, right? ). Missing the launch undoubtedly contributed to my feelings as well. Maybe @Kounan can relate being in Eastern Europe, but I do indeed think the Wii U is a mighty fine piece of kit, even if my perspective is somewhat skewed.
Ronnie Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 It still baffles me that it caught them off guard. Clearly they do live in a bubble. They only had to look at what every other developer was going through in the PS3/360 generation to see how much of a headache/time sink it could be. That Nintendo seal of quality takes time I guess. The Wii U launch line up was no worse than its competitors. The drought is mostly down to the third party situation. Imagine the PS4 without third parties, there'd be about two games a year.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) That Nintendo seal of quality takes time I guess. The Wii U launch line up was no worse than its competitors. The drought is mostly down to the third party situation. Imagine the PS4 without third parties, there'd be about two games a year. Indeed. When something like WarioWare was getting pushed further and further back you knew something was going wrong. As for your PS4 comment, I imagine Sony would invest more time and money into supporting the machine if that truly was the case. Luckily for them they don't actually need 1st party games to push the console as the 3rd party support, along with marketing deals, has kept them going nicely. Edited February 5, 2016 by Hero-of-Time
Serebii Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Indeed. When something like WarioWare was getting pushed further and further back you knew something was going wrong. As for your PS4 comment, I imagine Sony would invest more time and money into supporting the machine if that truly was the case. Luckily for them they don't actually need 1st party games to push the console as the 3rd party support, along with marketing deals, has kept them going nicely. No seal of quality on those boxarts :p It still baffles me that it caught them off guard. Clearly they do live in a bubble. They only had to look at what every other developer was going through in the PS3/360 generation to see how much of a headache/time sink it could be. It didn't catch them off guard so to speak. They knew the jump. It was just a little bigger than they anticipated. People have really overstated this bit.
Ronnie Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) Indeed. Those two games are a drop in the ocean. The Wii U library on the whole, quality wise, is excellent. That Nintendo touch :-) As for your PS4 comment, I imagine Sony would invest more time and money into supporting the machine if that truly was the case. Luckily for them they don't actually need 1st party games to push the console as the 3rd party support, along with marketing deals, has kept them going nicely. They'd have to, their first party output is pretty laughable. Just like Nintendo has to pick up the slack on Wii U. Sadly the pull of COD and FIFA is greater these days than Ninty first party titles. Edited February 5, 2016 by Ronnie
Blade Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Interesting to read the various opinions on here about how people's relationship to Nintendo changes. I can relate to what most of you are saying and I'm sure for everyone in this forum there is a strange love / hate relationship with the company. Towards the end of the Wii's lifetime I took a two year break from gaming completely, during the GameCube / Wii era I'd mostly been playing Xbox or PlayStation. My love of Nintendo had been dwindling for almost 10 years before I finally gave up and the 3DS and Wii U were the first Nintendo consoles since the 64 that I didn't buy at launch. I got my Wii U shortly after Mario Kart 8 released and the 3DS a couple of months later. For me, they are the best home console and handheld respectively Nintendo has ever released. I'm having a great time with both consoles and the games have kept me entertained and challenged for hours, which had been happening less and less with each previous generation. I appreciate some genres are severely lacking on Nintendo consoles (particularly racers, sports games and shooters), but on the other hand many genres are very, very well covered. Perhaps it was the break that's made me feel this way, or maybe even the lack of time / desire to even know about what's happening with Xbox / PS, let alone play anything on them. I understand 100% why Nintendo is turning many people away, but as a 'back-to-basics' console without all the online, connected whistles and bells of a modern console, the really stellar library of fun and imaginative games has been more than enough for me on both consoles. Had the Wii U released 15 years earlier, I think more of us'd be in agreement :wink:... But this is 2016, and for many Nintendo's traditionally conservative approach just doesn't cut it anymore. It's a shame, because gameplay wise I strongly believe Nintendo are at the very top of their game right now. Interesting post there. Now i've been exposed to the PS4 I don't want a basic console any longer. I like the extras that the other consoles offer. I would prefer that Nintendo offers something with the same or similar features in the next generation. I disagree that Nintendo are at the top of their game this gen. I think we have had "more of the same" that has come before with hardly anything new (exception is obviously Splatoon, that I still haven't bought on the basis that I can't talk to my mates on it) For me, Nintendo at the top of their game is offering something different and new. Games like NSMBU, 3D World, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Pikmin 3 albeit are excellent games, don't demonstrate Nintendo being "top of their game". Shite like Spin the Bottle and that Animal Crossing Amiibo Party, Badge Arcade definitely do not demonstrate Nintendo's potential. I do think games like OoT, Majoras Mask, SM64, Metroid Prime etc are examples at Nintendo being at the top of their game.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 5, 2016 Author Posted February 5, 2016 They'd have to, their first party output is pretty laughable. Just like Nintendo has to pick up the slack on Wii U. Sadly the pull of COD and FIFA is greater these days than Ninty first party titles. Indeed they would but it's also a moot point as they aren't in that position.
Serebii Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 I disagree that Nintendo are at the top of their game this gen. I think we have had "more of the same" that has come before with hardly anything new (exception is obviously Splatoon, that I still haven't bought on the basis that I can't talk to my mates on it) For me, Nintendo at the top of their game is offering something different and new. Games like NSMBU, 3D World, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Pikmin 3 albeit are excellent games, don't demonstrate Nintendo being "top of their game". Shite like Spin the Bottle and that Animal Crossing Amiibo Party, Badge Arcade definitely do not demonstrate Nintendo's potential. That's not even Nintendo, why are you bringing that up when discussing their software quality?
Rummy Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 (edited) And put it another way, the PS4's 3x install base would have helped Splatoon a hell of a lot more, would we have seen 12 million sales? Whilst I'm not keen on too much of the alternative console/competition/ps4 debate here as I feel it draws focus more to itself than Nintendo's offerings - I would daresay that we'd have seen more sales on PS4 if it were there. I'm not advocating the whole 'Nintendo should go 3rd party' debate or aiming to encourage it - but I feel Splatoon is such a great game in itself that yeah, it would have done excellently and via the install base better on PS4. Add in on top of that the often raised criticism of voice chat and you've definitely got a winner as the PS4 system has a party chat system built in to its general OS than can transcend pretty much all games. Against the argument is that it's huge in Japan, but I still think it would have pulled a decent number of sales in the West that might actually have outweighed this. But why do people who clearly don't like Nintendo still feel the need to come back in here and get upset about things and defend Bloodborne or whatever? Focus on what you enjoy playing rather than getting upset because some one is happy to see Nintendo games selling well! Again I'm not too keen to get bogged down with it - but how would you(or anyone else here) feel if someone decided to compare the sales of Mario and FIFA? Does nothing spring to mind on how ludicrous or irrelevant that might be? Like I've said before, personally, given the choice, I'd take a wii u over a ps4/xbone all over again in the next generation. But please nintendo, combine the two for the absolute best experience. I would dare say a large majority of us are on the same page in regards to that: Nintendo still do some great things, as do others, but if they could all be brought together I think it would be nothing short of the best. Edited February 5, 2016 by Rummy
Goron_3 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 That's not even Nintendo, why are you bringing that up when discussing their software quality? Some people don't spend 24 hours a day thinking and talking about Nintendo games. Chill
Kav Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 That's not even Nintendo, why are you bringing that up when discussing their software quality? W101 and the Bayonetta games aren't Nintendo but people cite them.
Blade Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 That's not even Nintendo, why are you bringing that up when discussing their software quality? I do apologise. It was wrong for me to assume that because it was advocated in a Direct that it must be Nintendo's doing. Anyway, the point I was making remains.
Serebii Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 W101 and the Bayonetta games aren't Nintendo but people cite them. Bayonetta 2 was funded by Nintendo. Wonderful 101 is owned by Nintendo. This is just a third party game that was featured in a Direct like many third party games.
Kav Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Bayonetta 2 was funded by Nintendo.Wonderful 101 is owned by Nintendo. This is just a third party game that was featured in a Direct like many third party games. Neither were developed by Nintendo so your point is entirely irrelevant.
Goron_3 Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Bayonetta 2 was funded by Nintendo.Wonderful 101 is owned by Nintendo. This is just a third party game that was featured in a Direct like many third party games. They weren't developed by Nintendo dude. Different situation to say Xenoblade.
Sheikah Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 Interesting post there. Now i've been exposed to the PS4 I don't want a basic console any longer. I like the extras that the other consoles offer. I would prefer that Nintendo offers something with the same or similar features in the next generation. I disagree that Nintendo are at the top of their game this gen. I think we have had "more of the same" that has come before with hardly anything new (exception is obviously Splatoon, that I still haven't bought on the basis that I can't talk to my mates on it) For me, Nintendo at the top of their game is offering something different and new. Games like NSMBU, 3D World, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Pikmin 3 albeit are excellent games, don't demonstrate Nintendo being "top of their game". Shite like Spin the Bottle and that Animal Crossing Amiibo Party, Badge Arcade definitely do not demonstrate Nintendo's potential. I do think games like OoT, Majoras Mask, SM64, Metroid Prime etc are examples at Nintendo being at the top of their game. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Nintendo clearly make good games but for me there has been a definite lack of ambition with their games this generation.
dazzybee Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 @Blade Spin the bottle is a brilliant game. Genuinely brilliant party game. As for top of their game, I agree to an extent - Mario Make and Smash are series best, Pikmin 3 is one of my favourite games of all time, Splatoon, Mario Maker, even smaller games like Donkey Kong, Toad, Yoshi, Kirby... They're all incredibly high quality. And that' just Wii U, 3DS has some unreal games as well. Software development is not something nintendo are falling behind on. People will cry innovative software, but again, what other game is like Pikmin on another system? Or Kirby? Or even Toad? Or Splatoon? They'r pretty unique games.
Jonnas Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 They weren't developed by Nintendo dude. Different situation to say Xenoblade. Even that depends on your definition. Do Monolith Soft, Camelot, Intelligent Systems and Hal Laboratiories count as Nintendo or not? Depends on who you ask. Also, while I think we can agree that Platinum is certainly NOT Nintendo, Bayonetta and W101 wouldn't exist without Nintendo, either, so I think it's fair to thank Ninty for those games. The same way we can thank Nintendo for Goldeneye 64 and Banjo-Kazooie, basically: they didn't make them, but they made them happen.
dazzybee Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 I wholeheartedly agree with this. Nintendo clearly make good games but for me there has been a definite lack of ambition with their games this generation. What is unambitious about Pikmin 3? Epic single player, extensive Mission and battle mode for multiplayer? What's unambitous about the sheer volume of content of smash bros? (and don't say lack of single player mode because that isn't ambition, that's a choice, more than made up for by other modes, people may not like that but not the same thing). What' unambitious about completely redefining the shooter genre with Splatoon? Or the size of the world in Xenoblade? And just so I full understand, what games do you think are ambitious? People not counting Bayonetta or Wonderful 101?! Strange. So is Smash not nintendo either? Or Hyrule Warriors? Or the new Star Fox?!
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