liger05 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Gamecube had a lot of issues but there was no reason why GTA should gave gone to GC because Nintendo weren't releasing games thaf cultivated that audience on the console. It's not like the N64 where they had Goldeneye which led the way. There are many interviews around where they say that they didn't understand western gamers back then and it wasnt rockstar's job to sort it out. If Nintendo ever want to succeed again they need to seriously up their amount of western development teams. Monster Games, Retro and the guys that made LM2 can't make enough games to make western gamers interested in Nintendo games. If that doesn't happen, 3rd parties will never change their tune. This. Publishers dont leave money on the table. If Rockstar believed GTA would of sold on the GC they would of released it on the GC. It's up to Nintendo to convince third parties that there is money to be made by investing in there platforms.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Gamecube had a lot of issues but there was no reason why GTA should gave gone to GC because Nintendo weren't releasing games thaf cultivated that audience on the console. It's not like the N64 where they had Goldeneye which led the way. There are many interviews around where they say that they didn't understand western gamers back then and it wasnt rockstar's job to sort it out. If Nintendo ever want to succeed again they need to seriously up their amount of western development teams. Monster Games, Retro and the guys that made LM2 can't make enough games to make western gamers interested in Nintendo games. If that doesn't happen, 3rd parties will never change their tune. Even with the N64, where were GTA and GTA London? One Street Fighter... I feel like it was more than just the cartridge use. in any case, what you say sounds like a solution that doesn't necessarily require an incredibly high spec Nintendo system.
Wii Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 If Nintendo weren't so insular, and so set on creating a bespoke piece of hardware, they could have maybe pioneered second screen tech on other devices. Almost on ZombiU or Pikmin or Mario Kart couldn't have been just as well with a Tablet of a Smart Phone. The only thing there is if it's not mandatory then developers are less likely to incorporate it. It's better that it's there for everybody to use and not an optional extra purchase, e.g. N64 expansion pak or wii motionplus. Still, Nintendo haven't made the most of the gamepad. I wouldn't remove it, I use it for browsing and so far has minimal purpose but it has potential. The only thing is my hand cramps when holding it for a long time with one hand and the battery sucks.
Retro_Link Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I've never stated otherwise - I just think Nintendo's are more prominent. Yet it seems theres zero chance even if it is...? We're not in the Gamecube era anymore, Nintendo completely neglected third party relationships back then, their relationship with third parties has been steadily on the decline since that console launched. They should be trying to win that back and learn from their mistakes, not just say 'well they abandoned us on the Gamecube, oh well that's it then'... They need to understand what happened. What effort are they making to get third parties back?... releasing an underpowered console that doesn't share third parties vision?... To get the third parties audience back?... releasing a completely undiverse games library of First party games?... To show both of these that the Wii U is the console to support... releasing next to no games that support their philosophy for the Gamepad? Yeah good job.
Goron_3 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Even with the N64, where were GTA and GTA London? One Street Fighter... I feel like it was more than just the cartridge use. in any case, what you say sounds like a solution that doesn't necessarily require an incredibly high spec Nintendo system. It was mainly the cartidge use as it was MUCH cheaper to develop for PS and of course the install base was huge. Nintendo had also damaged 3rd party relationships from the SNES era and Sony were very inviting to them, especially when it came to designing the console. But yes, it doesn't involve a high spec system. You could release a system as weak as the XBO (comparative to PS4) with no gimmicks for £250-300 and break even easily. You'd still receive ports too as engines would be comparable.
Jonnas Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 No but if someone is going to say Nintendo producing a console with similar specs to the PS4 or XB1 would result in huge losses I think they should give the reason for why that would be the case instead of just guessing. Don't the PS4 and X1 sell at a loss? If they don't, apologies. But there is nothing to show that PS4/X1 level specs would be more or less expensive as the Gamepad either way. However, Nintendo's inexperience with raw technical prowess rather shows, so I'd remain sceptical on their ability to make such a cost-effective machine. There's also the fact that, if they were to do that, there would still be nothing to separate Nintendo from the competition in the eyes of the public other than "We make Mario and Zelda". And I doubt that would be enough. And to clarify, my problem with your post wasn't exactly with the word "speculation", but rather the curt way you dismissed that paragraph as if "not proven" were sufficient rebuttal. Of course it was speculation, it's an hypothesis, an opinion. Like yours. I think he was just being polite tbh. Personally, I'd susbtitute 'speculation' for the testacles of choice. Also, I want to clarify that, A. I was the one liger was responding to, not Serebii; and B. I quoted the wrong post of yours just now But you get the point.
Retro_Link Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 There's also the fact that, if they were to do that, there would still be nothing to separate Nintendo from the competition in the eyes of the public other than "We make Mario and Zelda". And I doubt that would be enough.Personally I think it would stand them in a better position than they currently find themselves in. The fact that Nintendo has the talent to make Wii games look like PS3//360 beaters, and Wii U games [based on a couple of years experience only] rival those of the PS4/Xbone... if they had such consoles tools at their disposal they could be turning everyone's heads right now and setting the industry standard (something they always used to do in gaming). People would be taking notice, how could they not?... Price the console at the level of the PS4 (which the Wii U wasn't far off anyway), without this Gamepad no one's using, and they could have sold a lot more units? Ok so the online infrastructure might still be a defining factor for some, but well that's just something else they've taken to long to get sorted out.
Sheikah Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Don't the PS4 and X1 sell at a loss? If they don't, apologies. They make profit with the console sale combined with a game / PS Plus subscription with the PS4 from what I remember. You've also got to remember that selling at a small loss initially is a valid proposal, in fact I think it should be the norm. They will make money in game/subscription sales and as the console manufacturing cost goes down.
liger05 Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 There's also the fact that, if they were to do that, there would still be nothing to separate Nintendo from the competition in the eyes of the public other than "We make Mario and Zelda". And I doubt that would be enough. But isnt there software supposed to be what makes them great and better than other developers?
Sheikah Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 And to clarify, my problem with your post wasn't exactly with the word "speculation", but rather the curt way you dismissed that paragraph as if "not proven" were sufficient rebuttal. Of course it was speculation, it's an hypothesis, an opinion. Like yours. I didn't realise it was you and not Serebii due to the way he quoted it, but it seemed like the kind of thing Serebii would say (as it was a somewhat extreme, unelaborated comment that went against the evidence/current knowledge). PS4 is the top end console and does not bring 'incredible' losses.
Daft Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 (edited) The only thing there is if it's not mandatory then developers are less likely to incorporate it. It's better that it's there for everybody to use and not an optional extra purchase, e.g. N64 expansion pak or wii motionplus. Still, Nintendo haven't made the most of the gamepad. I wouldn't remove it, I use it for browsing and so far has minimal purpose but it has potential. The only thing is my hand cramps when holding it for a long time with one hand and the battery sucks. Metal Gear Sold GZ and Assassin's Creed use the second screen pretty well. Even Beyond Two Souls uses the second screen as an optional controller for a second player (shame it's a dreadful game, but it's a nice use in any case). Think you can call in air strikes in Dead Rising 3, too. Need for Speed uses it too as a world map. Watch Dogs, too. The Division also uses a second screen pretty niftily. They all enhance extend the experience but it isn't a big deal playing without the second screen either; it doesn't need to be mandatory. Arguably more games make better use of a second screen outside of the Wii U ecosystem than within it. Seriously, where are all the champions of second screens when Nintendo aren't involved? Edited May 9, 2014 by Daft
Ashley Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 Regarding lack of third party games on previous Nintendo consoles (in spite of them being similar to the competition power-wise): the architectural differences between the consoles were much different back then and even if specs were similar, the process of porting/making across consoles were more difficult then than it is now. Hence why other factors played a role, such as audience size, demographic etc. Obliviously they still do to an extent, but a lesser one. The similarities between the One and PS4 aren't through a lack of trying/reaching a peak/coincidence. They have been designed to allow for developers to make their games more easily available across both. It's why all the consoles support Unity. It's widely used and thus games built with it can cross over with greater ease. Which is why Nintendo has a better chance of keeping on par with the others for indie titles, but not so much big studio titles.
Jonnas Posted May 9, 2014 Posted May 9, 2014 I honestly don't think "We have Mario and Zelda" is enough. For people like us in this forum? Yeah, sure. For guys who just like playing Fifa, CoD or CS? No. For the "Blue Ocean" audiences? No, they need something different for them. To kids? Maybe, but what appeals to them in Nintendo is more likely to be released in handhelds, I think. I'm talking about sales, by the way. We would pay attention to Nintendo-made exclusives, and reviewers would still praise them, but realistically, they need something more visible. The gamepad did fail at that, though. Western-based/diverse 2nd Parties would definitely help.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 The Wii U Discussion board - The Forsaken Fortress of N-E.. B for cancel, indeed...
The Bard Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Arguably more games make better use of a second screen outside of the Wii U ecosystem than within it. Seriously, where are all the champions of second screens when Nintendo aren't involved? Same thing happened when Nintendo "appropriated ("ripped off" is the term the Nintendonauts used when Sony did the same borrowing) the TrackIR that'd been used for years and years in flight sims and gesture controlled mouse emulation. Except because it's Nintendo, the human lice feel the need to crawl out and infest every space where games are discussed, and declare it a revolution. Other console manufacturers have pretty solidly proved again and again that there are more elegant ways to implement Nintendo's own ideas in a way that's unobtrusive and doesn't fuck people who want to opt out.
Retro_Link Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 Yes, that was a helpful post :p Yes it was - a moment to reflect perhaps.I don't really get it? What's it supposed to symbolise/reflect on? That Nintendo fans get their defensive pitchforks out?
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 I don't really get it? What's it supposed to symbolise/reflect on? That Nintendo fans get their defensive pitchforks out? More that the trolls and MFing hobgoblins are running rampant. As soon as a positive Nintendo remark is made, its like the spotlights are drawn to them and all the minions come out to steamroll a ninja... But I obviously disgress.
Sheikah Posted May 10, 2014 Posted May 10, 2014 I don't really get it? What's it supposed to symbolise/reflect on? That Nintendo fans get their defensive pitchforks out? That's the most accurate interpretation, yeah. :p
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 What ever happened to that SquareEnix Wii U port? http://www.joystiq.com/2012/10/15/report-major-square-enix-game-receiving-wii-u-port-by-mass-effe/
Serebii Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 What ever happened to that SquareEnix Wii U port? http://www.joystiq.com/2012/10/15/report-major-square-enix-game-receiving-wii-u-port-by-mass-effe/
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 This is one of those games that I'll pick up when I clear some of my Wii backlog.
Rummy Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I've never stated otherwise - I just think Nintendo's are more prominent. I think the issue of contention is this statement by you in an earlier post. So what if the 3D is pointless? I'd still want a company to give it a shot. Nintendo are the only ones out there with the balls to want try whatever they want. After all, if you don't like it you can always, you know, buy a Playstation. This comes back round to one of the points I somewhat made in my long ranty post - I don't WANT a PS4(which I assume you meant) or XBone right now(if at all). However I do approve of some of the features they have - such as good online infrastructure, decent chat options etc - I will use P3/4+Xbone360 as examples to highlight good examples of this or features I would like(when I didn't in the Smash thread, another member felt the need to point out that this exists on other systems already). More so I actually refer to the technical 'last gen' of PS360 for my examples - not even the 'current' competition. It seems silly to be behind when you're ahead, no? My greatest issue with the Wii U isn't that it isn't the competition, or I want the competition, but it was sold to me and I bought it on a lot of promise. 1.5 years since release and I've yet to see Nintendo offer a really good and solid outing that makes extensive use of the USP(the gamepad). I've also yet to see the extensive amount of third party and appealing games that I felt they promised with it. Of course, the follow up to this is 'wait til e3 though!' - what if, after e3, I'm still wanting? 'wait til christmas though!' what if it's still not good then? 'wait til their next console!' - no thanks, I got let down too much with the last. And that's the thing. Their performance now and with the Wii U affects their entire future. The Xbone+PS4 aren't sold merely on their own merits - the 360+PS3 heavily seeded their sales. Nintendo's past performances and offerings are what has sold the Wii U to a lot of us, too. So what of the future, if the Wii U doesn't do enough now?
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