Wii U General Discussion

[Hero-of-Time]

Based on comments from Iwata the past two days, they have had the kick up the arse that was necessary. With that, and their expansion, I think a new golden age may be afoot.

 

Ever the optimist

 

My main issue is that it could just be all talk...again ( see no drought quotes for each generation ).

 

This year is certainly going to be very interesting for us Nintendo gamers. Smash, Mario Kart, X and the possibility of a changing Nintendo. Good times ahead!

[Serebii]

My main issue is that it could just be all talk...again ( see no drought quotes for each generation ).

 

This year is certainly going to be very interesting for us Nintendo gamers. Smash, Mario Kart, X and the possibility of a changing Nintendo. Good times ahead!

As Reggie said "Play.The.Games", and I intend to

[Ashley]

 

I'm just going to leave this here, too.

Nintendo: A couple of years of financial loss and one stagnating console.

Microsoft: Countless years of financial loss. Still overall far, far, in the red. Executives want rid of it.

Sony: Years of loss destroying everything they built with PS1/PS2. Failed handheld. Company in dire straits, made thousands of staff redundant last year and had to sell buildings just to stay afloat.

 

When will people realise that, just because the company manages to sell more consoles, it does not mean they are in a better place. Mark my words, when we see MS and Sony's financials for the gaming divisions, they'll be at a similar place, if not worse, than Nintendo's projections.

 

The difference is the other companies have other areas that can prop them up, which is why a loss may not be as potentially damaging (still bad, obvs). Which I think is why people are suggesting Nintendo branch out as they've currently got all their eggs in two baskets.

 

Based on comments from Iwata the past two days, they have had the kick up the arse that was necessary. With that, and their expansion, I think a new golden age may be afoot.

 

Ever the optimist

 

To be frank I don't trust a word he says. As someone (think HOT) posted, he's constantly making the same unfulfilled promises. I'm not personally calling for his head, but I can see why some might. Regardless of poor performance, here's a CEO that has let the company make the same mistakes repeatedly.

[Jamba]

And they're being proactive.

 

A large part of their losses comes from them being proactive.

Massive new R&D building

Massive increase to R&D budget

Massive influx of new hires

Massive increase to marketing budget.

Giving western studios more things to do, more control over Nintendo properties

 

Things are going to change. Nintendo are being completely proactive about this now. Hell, Iwata even just admitted that they should have focused more on foreign trends.

 

All of the above should have happened during the golden days of the Wii. Iwata has allowed the company to list into the position they are in now where they are being forced to fire fight all at the 11th hour and spend a ton of cash. That's not being proactive that's being reactive.

 

And a HUGE increase in advertising budget? Yeah that happens when you have practically no advertising budget to deal with.

 

 

By the end of this generation, Wii U will have made a decent profit overall. Nintendo will be bigger both physically and in mindset. The Wii U won't reach massive levels of sales, but it'll be comfortable.

 

The 3DS is keeping the Wii U afloat and I really don't think the profit margin will be good at all when you see it isolated. I'd actually wager that the stock sitting on shelves will easily cancel out any profit margin that the platform has made.

 

If anything my concern is that Nintendo are going to continue focusing their efforts on a platform that no one owns at the cost of one that many people do. I seriously don't want the Wii U to be the dead weight that ruins the later half of the 3DS life.

 

If I was on Nintendo's board I would be giving a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum. I think as a group of developers and (can only speak for NoE really) as a publisher I think that they're pretty damn awesome but as a business, they are poor.

 

EDIT: Sorry dazzy, I'm gonna thrip a few ideas here.

[Serebii]

All of the above should have happened during the golden days of the Wii. Iwata has allowed the company to list into the position they are in now where they are being forced to fire fight all at the 11th hour and spend a ton of cash. That's not being proactive that's being reactive.

 

And a HUGE increase in advertising budget? Yeah that happens when you have practically no advertising budget to deal with.

 

 

 

 

The 3DS is keeping the Wii U afloat and I really don't think the profit margin will be good at all when you see it isolated. I'd actually wager that the stock sitting on shelves will easily cancel out any profit margin that the platform has made.

 

If anything my concern is that Nintendo are going to continue focusing their efforts on a platform that no one owns at the cost of one that many people do. I seriously don't want the Wii U to be the dead weight that ruins the later half of the 3DS life.

 

If I was on Nintendo's board I would be giving a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum. I think as a group of developers and (can only speak for NoE really) as a publisher I think that they're pretty damn awesome but as a business, they are poor.

 

EDIT: Sorry dazzy, I'm gonna thrip a few ideas here.

So, because they should have done it before means that they shouldn't do it now? I never get complaints like that. Hindsight is 20/20. Should they have? Probably, but that doesn't mean people should act like them doing it now is a bad thing.

 

The difference is the other companies have other areas that can prop them up, which is why a loss may not be as potentially damaging (still bad, obvs). Which I think is why people are suggesting Nintendo branch out as they've currently got all their eggs in two baskets.

 

 

 

To be frank I don't trust a word he says. As someone (think HOT) posted, he's constantly making the same unfulfilled promises. I'm not personally calling for his head, but I can see why some might. Regardless of poor performance, here's a CEO that has let the company make the same mistakes repeatedly.

Microsoft does have those divisions, yeah, Sony does not. Sony are in a very, very bad place.

 

I too am a little sceptical, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt this one time.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Serebii
Automerged Doublepost

[Jamba]

So, because they should have done it before means that they shouldn't do it now? I never get complaints like that. Hindsight is 20/20. Should they have? Probably, but that doesn't mean people should act like them doing it now is a bad thing.

 

Don't be a child. You use the good time to prepare for the bad. Nintendo almost literally sat around for the whole of the second half of the Wii and failed to leverage their position or capitalize on any opportunities.

 

It's not hindsight, it's called business analysis and planning. You know doing things that I dinosaur like Nintendo would never do, like investigate different business models or prepare the launch of their new console.

[Rummy]

If Nintendo go third party, then fine. However, what he is suggesting would actually kill Nintendo. If Nintendo release their games on other platforms, that's it. They can't go back to hardware. It would destroy them as it would set a very dangerous precedent. After being able to buy Nintendo games on other hardware, why would people then go back to dedicated hardware for it.

 

I'm not supporting the idea, but this might be a useful for context;

temporarily

ˈtɛmp(ə)r(ər)ɪli/

adverb

adverb: temporarily

 

1.

for a limited period of time; not permanently.

"symptoms may disappear temporarily"

synonyms: for the time being, for the moment, for now, for the present, in the interim, for the nonce, in/for the meantime, in the meanwhile;

for a short time, for a short/little while, briefly, momentarily, fleetingly;

provisionally, pro tem;

pro tempore, ad interim;

en attendant

"the girl was temporarily placed with a foster family"

 

Don't be a child. You use the good time to prepare for the bad. Nintendo almost literally sat around for the whole of the second half of the Wii and failed to leverage their position or capitalize on any opportunities.

 

It's not hindsight, it's called business analysis and planning. You know doing things that I dinosaur like Nintendo would never do, like investigate different business models or prepare the launch of their new console.

 

I think that's one of the problems with the Wii U - they didn't make the greatest use of the time jump they had on the competition. I think there was a blind arrogance with the Wii U, they somehow thought/expected it would fly off the shelves like the Wii(possibly why they stupidly thought to keep Wii in the name) but that's so short-sighted I don't know how they could have - I reckon half the people here could have told you from the get go that it wasn't going to work like that!

Edited January 18, 2014 by Rummy

[Ashley]

Yeah it's just good business sense to use a successful period to prepare for the future. It feels like Nintendo spent three years sat around watching the "it prints money" gifs.

[Serebii]

I'm not supporting the idea, but this might be a useful for context;

I know what temporary means. I'm saying that them doing that would set the precedent so that if they were to release new hardware, nobody would go to it because they'll expect their games to come to other platforms

[liger05]

Don't be a child. You use the good time to prepare for the bad. Nintendo almost literally sat around for the whole of the second half of the Wii and failed to leverage their position or capitalize on any opportunities.

 

It's not hindsight, it's called business analysis and planning. You know doing things that I dinosaur like Nintendo would never do, like investigate different business models or prepare the launch of their new console.

 

Everything is reactionary with Iwata. It's apology after apology and admission of mistakes. No foresight or pro active steps taken. Now his saying he misread the market and they need to look at Western trends more. I'm sorry but that's not good enough. His a CEO who should already be doing this. People have been saying for years now Nintendo need to start monitoring trends and stop operating in a bubble.

[Helmsly]

So, because they should have done it before means that they shouldn't do it now? I never get complaints like that. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

I don't think its a case of Hindsight being 20/20 in this case. A lot of these issues were seen by many many people for the past few years and its kinda shocking that Nintendo are only seeing these issues now.

[Rummy]

I know what temporary means. I'm saying that them doing that would set the precedent so that if they were to release new hardware, nobody would go to it because they'll expect their games to come to other platforms

 

And when they don't...?

[Serebii]

I don't think its a case of Hindsight being 20/20 in this case. A lot of these issues were seen by many many people for the past few years and its kinda shocking that Nintendo are only seeing these issues now.

Perhaps, but as I'm saying, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing it now nor does it mean that it isn't a big part of their reported loss.

[Jamba]

Perhaps, but as I'm saying, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing it now nor does it mean that it isn't a big part of their reported loss.

 

Agreed but you were using this as an example of them being proactive. I'd go so far as saying that the only 2 proactive things that Nintendo has done in the past 7 years from a business point of view are:

- Miiverse

- Nintendo Direct

 

Nintendo as a business are the antithesis of proactive.

[Daft]

Sony: Years of loss destroying everything they built with PS1/PS2. Failed handheld. Company in dire straits, made thousands of staff redundant last year and had to sell buildings just to stay afloat.

 

This is a completely uncontextualised point you've made. This was done last year in a very public effort to streamline Sony because it had become a bloated mess of a corporation.

 

You can't honestly correlate something in such a facile manner.

[Clownferret]

Again, one more time.

 

Bad console =/= bad software.

 

Muse upon it a while.

 

 

For the first time in a long time Nintendo 3rd party releases are on par with their Sony and Microsoft counterparts, so the bad software argument has never been less of an issue. And considering PS4 and XB1 have launched for the most part with games already available and your argument just has no validation whatsoever especially when you take into account Knack and Nintendo's in house software catalogue far outstrips Sony or Microsoft.

 

I don't care if don't like Wii U, but stop using hardware sales to justify it. If bad software is a bad console then PS4 with Knack "one of the worst launch games ever made" and Ghosts "COD with Shadows" is a car wreck.

 

Is a Ferrari a bad car if doesn't have petrol in it? Put petrol in it, it's a supercar. You can't write off Wii U 1 year into a 7 year cycle because it does not have games and you certainly can't then laud the PS4 which has far less software and costs double the money.

Nobody knows what will happen down the line. PS3 and 3DS both had very bad first years and both changed their fortunes with great software.

[dazzybee]

You just want everyone with an opinion on the matter that you don't like/agree with to be silenced.

 

Nintendo going third party home console is a solution to the problem at hand, but you don't like it, so we apparently can't say it.

 

Do you even read my fucking posts? You're like a child! I said I'd be up for a decent discussion on the very topic, did you not see this? You seem to ignore it and say that I ignore it and want it silenced, when this is the EXACT opposite of what i said. So why post your perpetual inanity?

[drahkon]

I used to like you drahkon.

 

Yeah? Really?

Well...

You're GAY!

 

Oh...

 

:p

 

If bad software is a bad console

 

I think you misunderstood @Sheikah's post. He probably meant that bad software does not equal a bad console. I could be wrong, though.

 

This year is certainly going to be very interesting for us Nintendo gamers. [...] a changing Nintendo.

 

This may be very interesting for all gamers. Currently, I don't consider myself a Nintendo gamer (whatever that even means ), but I'm really looking forward to what Nintendo will do/announce this year. Both stoftware/hardware- and company-wise.

Edited January 18, 2014 by drahkon

[dazzybee]

@Hero\-of\-Time you speak a lot of sense and I think I feel the same as you. Presuming it actually does kick them up at their arse. But like most people, it's baffling it needed this when it seems clear it was needed before anything happened. And again, the point about the Wii having pretty much NOTHING for it's final 2 years, seemed to suggest they were ramping up for the Wii U, but then it fell out so limply, what WERE they doing?

 

I still think this year could be a decent one for them, Mario Kart and Smash, X, Bayonetta, a decent variety, I think they WILL go into over drive and give us more. But like a few of us keep saying, it's their services they need to overhaul, if they do this over time and create something really strong and competitive then maybe it'll put them in good stead for the next ten with their handheld home console combined effort!

[Hero-of-Time]

For the first time in a long time Nintendo 3rd party releases are on par with their Sony and Microsoft counterparts, so the bad software argument has never been less of an issue. And considering PS4 and XB1 have launched for the most part with games already available and your argument just has no validation whatsoever especially when you take into account Knack and Nintendo's in house software catalogue far outstrips Sony or Microsoft.

 

I don't care if don't like Wii U, but stop using hardware sales to justify it. If bad software is a bad console then PS4 with Knack "one of the worst launch games ever made" and Ghosts "COD with Shadows" is a car wreck.

 

Surely this is all a matter of opinion though? Some may prefer Sony and Microsoft's franchises over Nintendos, so the Wii U doesn't appeal to them.

 

XBOne launch had some pretty good exclusives. Killer Instinct, Dead Rising 3, Forza 5, Halo Spartan Assault, Max: Curse of Brotherhood and Ryse.

 

I say Ryse just to point out your final point. Have you played Knack or are you just going by what the reviews said? The reviews for Ryse were terrible to average yet I found the game to be great, as did my brother and 2 mates. I went through it twice and still pop on for a bit if coop multiplayer.

 

Apologies if you have played through Knack but if you haven't I wouldnt trust most reviewers and make your own opinion on a game.

 

I think the 3rd party issue is more about the lack of titles more than the quality of the port. Where was DMC, MGS Rising, Bioshock Infinite, Tomb Raider etc.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Hero-of-Time

[Goron_3]

It's interesting to hear Iwata say that he misread the Western markets, because I've been harping on about that for the last 12 months. What games are big over here? Sports titles, 3rd person shooters/adventures and FPS's....Invest in some staff and diversify that line up!

 

Also, give Reggie some power instead of treating him as a tool. Seriously, the guy is clearly passionate about Nintendo but he's been lifeless since the early Wii days.

[Rummy]

For the first time in a long time Nintendo 3rd party releases are on par with their Sony and Microsoft counterparts, so the bad software argument has never been less of an issue. And considering PS4 and XB1 have launched for the most part with games already available and your argument just has no validation whatsoever especially when you take into account Knack and Nintendo's in house software catalogue far outstrips Sony or Microsoft.

 

I don't care if don't like Wii U, but stop using hardware sales to justify it. If bad software is a bad console then PS4 with Knack "one of the worst launch games ever made" and Ghosts "COD with Shadows" is a car wreck.

 

Is a Ferrari a bad car if doesn't have petrol in it? Put petrol in it, it's a supercar. You can't write off Wii U 1 year into a 7 year cycle because it does not have games and you certainly can't then laud the PS4 which has far less software and costs double the money.

Nobody knows what will happen down the line. PS3 and 3DS both had very bad first years and both changed their fortunes with great software.

 

Did you even read his posts? He's NOT talking about 'bad software'. He's explicitly even stated that he is not equating bad software with bad hardware. He's also made reference to it being, as everything, a subjective case - asking where people draw their lines. The ferrari/petrol example is flawed in so many ways as a anaolgy it's barely relevant. I don't believe I saw him 'writing off' the Wii U either.

 

I'm inclined to agree that it's all Wii U relevant - and so it's all fair discussion(it is at least, some that I'm interested to hear). People are making rounded and rational posts and some people aren't. There IS going to be Wii U negativity right now with the recent news of Nintendo's figures and forecast slashings, but can't we try to discuss it without getting quite so defensive?

 

 

I still think this year could be a decent one for them, Mario Kart and Smash, X, Bayonetta, a decent variety, I think they WILL go into over drive and give us more. But like a few of us keep saying, it's their services they need to overhaul, if they do this over time and create something really strong and competitive then maybe it'll put them in good stead for the next ten with their handheld home console combined effort!

 

My question would be whether those titles are really good enough to shift the hardware? We've expected big things from Mario, Pikmin, and they haven't come. There's franchise fatigue amongst some and I'm sad to say I think Mario Kart is actually going to similarly underperform against everyone's expectations in the west. I personally skipped it on Wii(as did a few friends with Wiis that I wouldn't have expected to), and I can recall it was shadowed by other games at our Games days.

 

I think X fans are likely to mostly already have the console, and out of the three I think Smash might be the only one to really get it selling at any notably different rate; especially with the 3DS version to tie it in. However it's imperative that they absolutely nail the online to get some of the more skeptical ex-nintycore on board imo.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Rummy

[Mokong]

For the first time in a long time Nintendo 3rd party releases are on par with their Sony and Microsoft counterparts, so the bad software argument has never been less of an issue. And considering PS4 and XB1 have launched for the most part with games already available and your argument just has no validation whatsoever especially when you take into account Knack and Nintendo's in house software catalogue far outstrips Sony or Microsoft.

 

I don't care if don't like Wii U, but stop using hardware sales to justify it. If bad software is a bad console then PS4 with Knack "one of the worst launch games ever made" and Ghosts "COD with Shadows" is a car wreck.

 

Is a Ferrari a bad car if doesn't have petrol in it? Put petrol in it, it's a supercar. You can't write off Wii U 1 year into a 7 year cycle because it does not have games and you certainly can't then laud the PS4 which has far less software and costs double the money.

Nobody knows what will happen down the line. PS3 and 3DS both had very bad first years and both changed their fortunes with great software.

 

OK pretty sure you are mis reading Shiekahs point.

 

When he said

 

Bad console =/= bad software.

 

Pretty sure he is trying to create a "does not equal" sign in the middle with "=/="

 

ie:

 

SO he is saying Hardware might be bad but it is still possible to have good entertaining software, which is pretty much the situation we have.

 

Nintendo made a big miscalculation when it came to the Wii U in that they thought the "New Gamers" and "expanded Market" they created with the Wii were still around. They assumed the Wii U would sell on the Wii brand alone and failed to consider several points that made the Wii such a success from its day one.

 

Price and ease of accessability. With Wii Sports "non-gamers" could see it being played and would now exactly how to play without needing to be told about buttons (well to an extent, still needed buttons to get through menus of course but the main gameplay was a simple concept). With Wii U they priced it higher and somehow forgot negelected the advantage a low price point gave them with Wii.

 

Then there was their "flagship" title of NintendoLand, the game that was meant to be Wii U's "Wii Sports" and show off the concept of their new controller. But it does translate well at all. compared to Wii Sports it's a very complicated game and you don't know at first glance what it's about.

 

They somehow expected there to be a ton of buzz for the Wii U like the Wii dispite it lacking the two things that gave the Wii it's launch buzz.

 

And they then made the mistake of thinking that since the Wii was so underpowered compared to it's rivals and did so well they assumed they didn't need to go all on power again.

 

So long as the software was good does it matter how much power it has? So long as it was more powerful than the Wii that's all it would need to seem "new" they prolly thought.

 

To an extent that is prolly true. Indeed I would agree graphical power is not a high priority for me so long as the games are good, fun and enjoyable. Which the games I have played/bought so far have been.

 

What Nintendo have failed to understand is that 7 years on from the Wii's launch there is more required of a console these days than just good software. I'm not talking about a bunch of multimedia stuff like bluray/dvd players and TV TV TV, but they need to be able to create an online user expereince.

 

Miiverse was a step forward but they have shockingly failed to build on that in a meaningful way, even dispite making other minor steps forward (NNID's) the overall experience is very lacking.

 

Sure local play is great and prefered, but the reality is not many people have teh oppurtunity to game locally much anymore a reality Nintendo seem to be blind to. Not saying they should ditch local multi options but bloody hell they should be offering both.

 

But even the online options they do offer are substandard. Look at Wii Sports Club, a game who's big selling point was meant to be "Look it's Wii Sports but it's ONLINE"

 

Yet its online options/features are so barebones it is such a ball ache to actually play online with friends. No in game friend list, even if you check the Friend List App and see others playing the game you have no idea what they are doing? Which sport are they playing? Are they in a game right now? Are they searching for a game right now? The lack of an invite system is just shocking in this day and age.

 

I've bought Bowling and Golf but I mainly play offline cause while I have played online with friends, setting it up can be such a pain when it really shouldn't be that it can be very off putting that unless I feel I have teh extra energy to try set something up I just go straight into a quick search of "everyone".

 

These are the things that shouldn't be.

 

More so these are things that should be integrated at an OS level so that they don't have to coded at software level.

 

Oh sure you can send PM's via Miiverse, great... except the person you send it too has no idea you sent anything!

 

A flashing blue light that can mean several different things might aswell be non-exsistant. How did they not even make different colours for different things like the 3DS does?

 

More important how did they not even think to add on screen pop-ups to cover when a friend comes online or sends a PM. That small little thing would improve teh user experience so much.

 

And of course the eShop and the VC, the slowness of teh drip feeding of titles on the VC is just shocking. They prolly had more stuff on the Wii VC in the same time frame. We should have so much more I do wonder who the hell at Nintendo chose this plan and wonder what they were smoking?

 

I've seen people mention here a PS+ style service which gives access to VC games and that is a great idea and definately something I hope Nintendo are planning or maybe even starting to look at now.

 

More so than that at the very least they should be setting thing sin motion so that if you buy a VC game on WiiU and it is also on 3DS you get both for the price of one no matter which consoles eShop you bought it on.

 

 

 

Can they change the hardware specs of the Wii U now?

 

No of course not.

 

Can they uddenly announce a new console just over a year into the Wii U's life? No they can't do that either.

 

As bad as things are for teh Wii U sales wise now all Nintendo can do is try to improve, but to make any meaningful improvements they have to get out of their bubble and embrace ideals such as online fully and create a firmware update that will give the Wii U a much better and more unified online backbone.

 

Then there's 3rd parties. Nintendo's plan seemed to be, "we'll make good 1st party games which will help sell more consoles then 3rd parties will want to come back"

 

But they aren't giving them any real reasons for 3rd parties to come back are they? Again they are in a bubble that needs to be popped and start being more active in courting and building relationships with western 3rd parties. We know they can moneyhat outside projects as we see with Platinum and TW101 and Bayo2, so go after some Western 3rd parties and moneyhat projects from them to create more diversity for the console.

 

 

 

If anything one way or another this year will be very interesting as Nintendo are well and truely backed against a wall. They will attempt something, they must....the questions are will they make the right choices and have they truely and finally learned from their mistakes?

 

 

Even with the underpowered hardware they are still more than capable of creating good and great software. But they need more than their own software to make the console worth while to others and not just software they need to have other features working properly and not just half assed like they have been with online up to now

Edited January 18, 2014 by Mokong

[dazzybee]

My question would be whether those titles are really good enough to shift the hardware? We've expected big things from Mario, Pikmin, and they haven't come. There's franchise fatigue amongst some and I'm sad to say I think Mario Kart is actually going to similarly underperform against everyone's expectations in the west. I personally skipped it on Wii(as did a few friends with Wiis that I wouldn't have expected to), and I can recall it was shadowed by other games at Games days.

 

I think X fans are likely to mostly already have the console, and out of the three I think Smash might be the only one to really get it selling at any notably different rate; especially with the 3DS version to tie it in. However it's imperative that they absolutely nail the online to get some of the more skeptical ex-nintycore on board imo.

 

I think they'll shift units yeah, Mario Kart and Smah will. X and Bayonetta won't be they're good titles to tempt the wider gaming community and show nintendo

aren't just for their franchises.

 

As for we expected mario and pikmin to sell hardware, I certainly never, especially not Pikmin. Mario I'v always said hasn't shifted units since the N64. I always said it was disaster not to have mario kart this christmas.

 

The Wii U clearly is never going to sell decent numbers, I just hope it at least beats the gamecube and nintendo really do learn from it now and into the future.

 

Like I've said a few things, i did an article and doing more for another site - here's the link about Wii Sports Club, but the idea of the series is about the wider problems of rthe Wii U. This was written before the latest "news" and fall out, so quite good timing In the coming weeks I'm doing articles on Mii Verse, the plaza and OS, general online etc etc If people would be interested in reading them!

 

http://nintendoreview.co.uk/2014/01/nintendo-hey-listen-wii-sports-club/

 

Just read your post @Mokong - I think you'll agree with the article

[Sheikah]

Do you even read my fucking posts? You're like a child! I said I'd be up for a decent discussion on the very topic, did you not see this? You seem to ignore it and say that I ignore it and want it silenced, when this is the EXACT opposite of what i said. So why post your perpetual inanity?

 

So now I'm a child as well as lacking comprehension? Real smooth. In my opinion this is all decent and relevant discussion on the subject except what you're doing. And you definitely wanted people to stop talking about certain aspects, despite them being relevant:

 

 

I guess the issue for me is we've had this debate before. Actually I'd be up for a serious, genuine discussion in that matter. But this is a Wii u discussion thread, we should chat about the Wii u. With the sheer frequency of these very similar posts from the same people in threads I don't feel it's needed, it's just become an irritation for me. I want this thread to be about how to turn the Wii u around, not a how shit is Nintendo they should go third party thread again.

 

Anyway @Serebii, I'd argue that Nintendo aren't in the same position as when Sony and Microsoft have had troubled periods. The main difference is that Sony and Microsoft have always been supported by third parties, and seemingly had a future. It seems difficult to imagine how the Wii U will recover from this.

 

For the first time in a long time Nintendo 3rd party releases are on par with their Sony and Microsoft counterparts, so the bad software argument has never been less of an issue. And considering PS4 and XB1 have launched for the most part with games already available and your argument just has no validation whatsoever especially when you take into account Knack and Nintendo's in house software catalogue far outstrips Sony or Microsoft.

 

You realise what you're essentially saying here, right?

 

"If we look at the inevitable lack of third party games on the X1/PS4 since they have only just come out and there hasn't been enough time to get more out yet, the output is comparable to Nintendo's".

 

That's one way to skew your sample to make a point. In even 3 months that situation will have changed entirely. You focus far too much on the 'right now'. Where is your analysis of the future? You don't just buy a console for the right now.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sheikah