Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I'm not very happy... I have been observing a pretty shit trend lately... this trend involves Japanese games released on Nintendo platforms and then ported to PS3... Now, coming from someone who owns all 3 home consoles I can say that as long as I can play the game I don't mind what I play it on... to a point... an example would be Tales of Graces, which is coming to the PS3 in august. Given the terrible track record or Tales games not making it to the west, I suppose I should just be grateful that it is even coming out at all. Then we have Rune Factory Oceans... Again, localised for the west but Nintendo gets ignored... again. This one is slightly different, because unlike Tales of Graces it was a simultaneous release. It was obviously decided to drop the Wii version entirely, even though the first home console Rune Factory was exclusive to the Wii... So we finally come to Ni No Kuni. This game was first announced for the DS and released in 2010 in Japan... it was suggested that the title was going to be localised for the west. Now over the course of the games initial development it was revealed that a PS3 version was also being created... and that the first half of the game would run parallel with the DS versions story, but would later diverge off on it's own path. "DS and PS3? How odd!" I thought at the time, but it didn't bother me. The DS version was the first version, and it seemed there would be differences... not to mention the amazing physical book that was NOT being included as standard with the PS3 version. As time went on though it became less and less clear what was going on, until of course it was decided that.. "sorry guys who have been waiting years in the west, no DS version"... because it will be too tricky to localise?... So here we are again... even though Nintendo has given Level 5 untold success with the Layton and Inazuma series' with the Nintendo DS, the PS3 comes out the winner in the west. Goodbye DS version that fans have waited YEARS for... Now, I understand that again I should just be grateful that the PS3 version is being localised for release in 2013... but honestly, what if I didn't have a PS3? What about all the DS fans who don't own the Sony console? I just think it's bloody awful form for Level 5 to do this, especially since traditionally their games sell a hell of a lot better in the west! They specifically saw a bunch of success with Professor Layton! I just cannot fathom why they would pull the plug on what is obviously a masterpiece of a game... they are letting their millions of DS fans down, and I for one thought I was over this but after investing in the Japanese version of the game recently I am freshly livid. Anyway, while I have been playing Ni No Kuni and enjoying it's gorgeous art, graphics and music... (not to mention the Book, which is a WORK OF ART!!!) I got to thinking about how the Wii U is perfect for the HD version of Ni No Kuni. I sincerely hope Level 5 sees the potential... the 'right in front of your nose' potential of the Wii U with this game, and ports the PS3 version RIGHT BLOODY NOW! I often wonder what development companies think when they pull the plug on games that fans have been waiting years for. Do they care? Do they feel remorse, or even an obligation to make it up to them later down the line? Perhaps I am just an angry little fanboy... perhaps I will play Ni No Kuni on the PS3 and love it all the same... but I for one sincerely hope that Level 5 makes this massive injustice up to me (not to mention all the other thousands and thousands of patient western fans) and either give us the DS game we have been waiting for, or perhaps an enhanced 3DS version? Or perhaps the most obvious one... a glorious HD, Wii U version that would have the Magic Master (Book...) in the controller, with full touchscreen spell casting as on the DS version... I can dream, of course... and will. whew... Rant over...
Retro_Link Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Tbh like you say I'd just be happy the game is being brought over to the West, because I think the market is pretty small for this game over here in the first place. Yes there may be millions of DS owners, but I doubt very few of them have been waiting for this game and very few even aware it exists; it's not some well known franchise, it's quite a niche title. --- However, on Level 5, I really hope we see a really long Professor Layton adventure on Wii U... like the movie, only full of gameplay as well.
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 Tbh like you say I'd just be happy the game is being brought over to the West, because I think the market is pretty small for this game over here in the first place. Yes there may be millions of DS owners, but I doubt very few of them have been waiting for this game and very few even aware it exists; it's not some well known franchise, it's quite a niche title. --- However, on Level 5, I really hope we see a really long Professor Layton adventure on Wii U... like the movie, only full of gameplay as well. I'm not sure I would call it 'niche' at all. Frankly I was always gob smacked at how well the first Layton game sold even just in Europe... so perhaps you underestimate the DS user-base. I think the fact that Ghibli is involved would have been a huge push for the game, and it would have certainly gained a lot of interest just because of that. It would have been easy as hell to market... Oh well, I guess not everyone cares as much as I do
Retro_Link Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I don't think the games are comparible... Layton is puzzle driven, can be played in short bursts, has a nice story and gameplay and controls perfectly suited for the DS... and came to the UK at the same time as the whole Brain Training craze; hence it sold loads and established a mighty fan base. Ni No Kuni is a Ghibli, Anime, JRPG, none of which are mass market.
S.C.G Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 It's all about sales, it'll sell more on the PS3 most likely but even then it still won't sell probably that well overall but it'll still be more than the DS I'd have thought. Most of the sales will be from online retailers as well because quite honestly bar perhaps Game I can't see any other place that happens to sell games stocking it as they tend to only stock titles that are almost guaranteed to fly off the shelves. Personally I'll still be picking it up on the PS3 though as I think it looks fantastic! : peace: But yeah... a Wii U version certainly wouldn't go amiss.
Retro_Link Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Yeah think I might be getting it as well. I'm not really an RPG fan, but it looks pretty great.
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 I don't think the games are comparible... Layton is puzzle driven, can be played in short bursts, has a nice story and gameplay and controls perfectly suited for the DS... and came to the UK at the same time as the whole Brain Training craze; hence it sold loads and established a mighty fan base. Ni No Kuni is a Ghibli, Anime, JRPG, none of which are mass market. Mass Market... well, I wouldn't call Dragon Quest mass market in Europe either... and the past release track record backs this up... and yet, with a little marketing Dragon Quest IX sold more in Europe than it did in America... over 600K units if I'm not mistaken. You don't get more JRPG than Dragon Quest. Honestly, all they would needed to have done is said ... "From the Makers of Dragon Quest IX... and from the studio that brought you the Academy Award winning Spirited Away..." perhaps stuck some goofy low level celebs playing the game on a TV ad and it would have transferred into sales... it worked with DQXI... why not this? Anyway... what about releasing it for the Wii U? You think it's niche for release AT ALL?
Magnus Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I agree with the part where you said that you should be thankful that they're localizing the game at all. It's annoying when games you want get released on a console you don't own, but I'd rather buy a PS3 than learn Japanese. I also agree that acting like a Wii U version would somehow make up for the lack of a DS version makes you seem like an angry little fanboy. :p
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 Yes, the PS3 version is lovely but like I mentioned (if you bothered to read) it isn't just a remake... it's half an entirely different story... I for one care that I won't get the whole experience. My idea about releasing the game on Wii U isn't just fanboy driven... it makes perfect sense... hence how Level 5 have talked about porting the original Professor Laytons onto Wii U...
Aimless Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 My understanding is that the DS game was a bit of a flop, relative to expectations; both Level-5 and Ghibli are big names in Japan. Whilst it's done good numbers — over 500,000 — in the context of the initial shipment being 600,000 copies and the price bombing as those failed to shift, it wasn't really the hit they were banking on, especially when you factor in the production expenses of the book. I seem to recall talk on the 8-4 podcast that the book and writing mechanic would be very hard to localise, not to mention expensive as you'd need production runs for various languages. As such the PS3 version is a more cost effective option, with the obvious marketing hook of amazing visuals: just seeing gets people interested, whilst the DS is now an 'old' system. As for a Wii U version, it could well happen but doesn't really make sense right now. There's over 60 million PS3s out there whilst there are zero Wii Us, and even if it has a stellar launch you're still looking at an install base of a couple of million at most. A Ni no Kuni release would better fit in later in the console's life, assuming the conversion process itself isn't horrendous; at the moment the Wii U doesn't sound like the most friendly hardware to port to, especially not if your game has been built specifically with the PS3's architecture in mind.
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 I agree with the part where you said that you should be thankful that they're localizing the game at all. It's annoying when games you want get released on a console you don't own, but I'd rather buy a PS3 than learn Japanese. I also agree that acting like a Wii U version would somehow make up for the lack of a DS version makes you seem like an angry little fanboy. :p I'll ignore the trollish tone of this... It's a little different from seeing a game like Final Fantasy XIII (for example) and getting all pissy, wishing it was on a console I owned... NiNoKuni was announced for DS... and then announced for PS3 later... and then dropped for DS in the west... so I figure that some people might be disappointed? With the move to PS3 it also loses a lot of the interactive gameplay elements and the Book, which was unique and pretty wicked in terms of immersion... oh, but it looks all shiny and better so I guess that's ok?... For the people saying it will sell better on PS3... i'd just like to point out that while the DS version sold over 500k copies, the PS3 version didn't even sell 200K
Grazza Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 I admire your passion, Deku-Nutz, but I genuinely don't understand the anger. Ni No Kuni was conceived years before the Wii U. Maybe a port would be a good idea, but I don't think you can ever expect such a thing. For all I know Level-5 (best developers in the world, in my opinion) may have designed it perfectly for the PS3 architecture and it wouldn't necessarily be easy to port it to the Wii U. Who knows? All I do know is that when Square-Enix/Level-5 started this project, the PS3 was the best option. Personally, I am perfectly happy to have to shell out money for a console I don't own. That's what system sellers are all about. I am very likely going to buy a PS3 just for Ni No Kuni. Why would I want to buy a Wii U more than a PS3? It's all about which games you want to play. If someone can make a fantastic system seller then that console deserves the sales. On another note, now Level-5 have finished this, please let them make Dragon Quest XI on the most powerful console on the market (Sony or Nintendo - realistically, it would have to be Japanese)! I want to see how good they can make Metal King Armour look.
Sheikah Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 One look at screenshots like this: ...and I frankly find it absurd that you'd want to ruin the experience playing it on DS. Shit, buy the damn console for this, it's not like the PS3 doesn't have tons of other great exclusives too. The game looks like art, why spoil it staring at the shitty DS screen? Cutting the DS version and keeping the PS3 version is absolutely the right way round if they're only going to pursue one. I hate it when games are released on inferior systems when others are available (e.g. DQ9 on the DS - DQ8 was so stunning even on the PS2 that I felt they really dropped the ball there).
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 One look at screenshots like this: ...and I frankly find it absurd that you'd want to ruin the experience playing it on DS. Shit, buy the damn console for this, it's not like the PS3 doesn't have tons of other great exclusives too. The game looks like art, why spoil it staring at the shitty DS screen? Cutting the DS version and keeping the PS3 version is absolutely the right way round if they're only going to pursue one. I hate it when games are released on inferior systems when others are available (e.g. DQ9 on the DS - DQ8 was so stunning even on the PS2 that I felt they really dropped the ball there). Looks stunning doesn't it? Maybe the most beautiful game I will ever play on my PS3. I'm a huge fan of Ghibli and Level 5, grown up with both companies masterpieces so this is my dream game really. Anyway... you and a few other people clearly didn't read my posts properly... you tell me to buy a PS3... I own one. I said I owned one and I said I will buy the PS3 version.. but I have been watching the development of this game over the years, right from the start. I happen to have gotten attached to the game as a DS title... the art style and graphics are lovely, the music is just perfect... and gameplay is also amazing and the touchscreen implementation is brilliant. Playing the game on the DS won't ruin the experience. It IS the experiences. Playing the PS3 version is a different experience entirely, which will also be enjoyable. Although the quality of the GFX and the Audio will be so much better on PS3 I still want to be able to jump on a train and enjoy the game how it was originally intended, as well as being able to play the HD version at home.. I can enjoy great graphics, but I am no graphics whore. The DS has had so many better games than the PS3... it's just a fact. So inferior graphics mean shit, quite frankly. Also as I originally stated... the two games actually differ in story after a certain point... This game is a big deal to me, so being prevented from experiencing both incarnations is a pretty bad thing for me... I honestly don't get why people are being so vicious about this, it's not like I am saying DIE PS3!!! I simply said that I would like the DS version localised, as was the intention... and that if that wasn't going to happen then surely a Wii U version (a Home console DS...) would be a great alternative. I will still buy the PS3 version, I am not boycotting it and never said I would... Well anyway, I'm frankly shocked that nobody wants to play the other game... even with the promise of a different story and more immersive gameplay, but perhaps those things mean more to me... well, they obviously do!
Ike Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 Oh. The PS3 version has a different story? Didn't know that thought it was the same. I hope they do release a Wii U version to take advantage of the tablet. Dragon Quest XI needs to look like that though (but better) ^
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 I admire your passion, Deku-Nutz, but I genuinely don't understand the anger. Ni No Kuni was conceived years before the Wii U. Maybe a port would be a good idea, but I don't think you can ever expect such a thing. For all I know Level-5 (best developers in the world, in my opinion) may have designed it perfectly for the PS3 architecture and it wouldn't necessarily be easy to port it to the Wii U. Who knows? All I do know is that when Square-Enix/Level-5 started this project, the PS3 was the best option. Personally, I am perfectly happy to have to shell out money for a console I don't own. That's what system sellers are all about. I am very likely going to buy a PS3 just for Ni No Kuni. Why would I want to buy a Wii U more than a PS3? It's all about which games you want to play. If someone can make a fantastic system seller then that console deserves the sales. On another note, now Level-5 have finished this, please let them make Dragon Quest XI on the most powerful console on the market (Sony or Nintendo - realistically, it would have to be Japanese)! I want to see how good they can make Metal King Armour look. I own a PS3. I'll buy the PS3 version because I have no other choice. It looks lovely in HD. I wanted it for the DS as well! I suggested the Wii U because it has a touchscreen interface, and would be a perfect combination of the DS gameplay and the PS3 visuals and sound. Why don't people get this? Oh. The PS3 version has a different story? Didn't know that thought it was the same. I hope they do release a Wii U version to take advantage of the tablet. Dragon Quest XI needs to look like that though (but better) ^ Well I am looking forward to seeing what the Wii U version of DQ X looks like... it will be a good taster for XI
Sheikah Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 The reason why I don't get the DS version love is that no amount of added touch screen niceties could raise it to the level of the PS3 game, I personally believe. It's entirely possible that they don't think there'll be enough return from the time and effort translating the two different stories and putting out the games on different consoles. If that's the case, they made the right choice by going with the version that's better by a country mile.
Deku-Nutz Posted June 19, 2012 Author Posted June 19, 2012 The reason why I don't get the DS version love is that no amount of added touch screen niceties could raise it to the level of the PS3 game, I personally believe. It's entirely possible that they don't think there'll be enough return from the time and effort translating the two different stories and putting out the games on different consoles. If that's the case, they made the right choice by going with the version that's better by a country mile. You may well be right, but if the Japan releases were anything to go by there wasn't as much interest in the PS3 version as the DS... but I realise that regional differences apply. I just don't get why they didn't just do both, as planned from the start. Who would have thought that Dragon Quest 9 on the lowly DS would sell over half a million copies in Europe? Especially since it followed the fantastic and graphically superior Dragon Quest 8 on the PS2.. people didn't seem too phased (when it came to slapping down money anyway) by the graphical downgrade... Anyway... at the end of the day I agree that the majority of people would choose the PS3 version over the DS one if there was a choice... Quite simply, I just wanted that choice! Level 5 is hardly a small, struggling company... they could have had a shot at the HUGE DS install base as well as the LARGE PS3 as well... why limit themselves? That's all I am asking...
dazzybee Posted June 19, 2012 Posted June 19, 2012 This is a frustrating thread. People clearly skimming dekus posts and missing the point entirely... READ! Anyways, I'll be getting this and yeah, be great to get both games, but no... And level 5 best developers in the world? Are you utterly insane? I love them, but that's crazy talk. Professon Layton are great games but not amazing design, same with inazuma
Sheikah Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 You may well be right, but if the Japan releases were anything to go by there wasn't as much interest in the PS3 version as the DS... but I realise that regional differences apply. I just don't get why they didn't just do both, as planned from the start. The Japanese market is different to ours, it's odd in many respects. Over here DS titles that sell well tend to be more pick up and play which Layton conformed to; this doesn't. I think it's more likely the PS3 version would fare better here, I get the feeling we're not as obsessed with our handhelds as in Japan (PSP was a success over there, not so much here). Who would have thought that Dragon Quest 9 on the lowly DS would sell over half a million copies in Europe? Especially since it followed the fantastic and graphically superior Dragon Quest 8 on the PS2.. people didn't seem too phased (when it came to slapping down money anyway) by the graphical downgrade... DQ is a large name and people follow it. Also DQ was new to the general public when VIII came out over here, yet had built up considerable reputation by the time IX came around. IX still sold a fair bit less in Europe by the way than VIII, indicating that console can trump handheld over here.
Magnus Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 And level 5 best developers in the world? Are you utterly insane? I love them, but that's crazy talk. Professon Layton are great games but not amazing design, same with inazuma You forgot that Grazza loves Dragon Quest more than life itself.
Deku-Nutz Posted June 20, 2012 Author Posted June 20, 2012 The Japanese market is different to ours, it's odd in many respects. Over here DS titles that sell well tend to be more pick up and play which Layton conformed to; this doesn't. I think it's more likely the PS3 version would fare better here, I get the feeling we're not as obsessed with our handhelds as in Japan (PSP was a success over there, not so much here). DQ is a large name and people follow it. Also DQ was new to the general public when VIII came out over here, yet had built up considerable reputation by the time IX came around. IX still sold a fair bit less in Europe by the way than VIII, indicating that console can trump handheld over here. Again, ya speak a lot of sense. DQ9 sold around 600'000, about 150,000 less than 8 yeah... but still a strong number when you consider that it's fairly unlikely that most people who owned a PS2 would own a DS. Anything is possible but I would say it's unlikely to be the norm. So the audience that was built upon 8 would be fairly tested with 9's shift to Nintendo AND handheld. I would say it faired well. I still think that given the same marketing push as 9 got over in Europe Ni No Kuni could have been a success. I guess we'll never know, but I will be interested in seeing how well the PS3 version does... I am absolutely desperate for it to do well seeing as Level 5 have their eyes on making this a Franchise!
Ike Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 Given a choice I would go the DS version, but that's because I normally prefer handheld titles these days. Just looked at some screenshots of the DS version, and it basically looks exactly like DQIX, which I have no problem with. Would have liked both since they have different stories, but I'm glad we are even getting it really. I think the DS version would have sold better, maybe the fact it's Studio Ghibli might help but we'll see. Since it's Namco Bandai, I'm not really expecting a big marketing push.
Dcubed Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) One look at screenshots like this: ...and I frankly find it absurd that you'd want to ruin the experience playing it on DS. Shit, buy the damn console for this, it's not like the PS3 doesn't have tons of other great exclusives too. The game looks like art, why spoil it staring at the shitty DS screen? Cutting the DS version and keeping the PS3 version is absolutely the right way round if they're only going to pursue one. I hate it when games are released on inferior systems when others are available (e.g. DQ9 on the DS - DQ8 was so stunning even on the PS2 that I felt they really dropped the ball there). Why couldn't we have both? They're two completely different games! (not just different versions) Why must it be one or the other? Of course it's much too late for a DS release now, but why couldn't they have pulled their finger out and got the DS game out earlier? Such a shame because the whole touch screen Rune drawing/real-life book thing with the DS game is really interesting, while the PS3 game is your typical turn based RPG (although of course that's a rarity in of itself these days!) Edited June 20, 2012 by Dcubed
Agent Gibbs Posted June 20, 2012 Posted June 20, 2012 having read all of this painful to read topic I'd love a western release of the DS Game, absolutely love it as well as..... I'm buying the PS3 version of the game but would also like to see it come to the WiiU as well I'm quite sick of the lack of western releases for some of these awesome RPG's, RPG's are my favorite genre of games, when done well they have varied gameplay, huge scale and are certainly value for money (60+hours of game play for a single run through of a game compared to FPS games 2 hours then its challenges, replays and multiplayer to get the same value) edit: as a side not that screen shot alone should sell Cell shading to anyone, if more games used this style it couldn't be a bad thing
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