If Not Nintendo, Then Who?

[Cube]

Unless a film is made so well that you don't need voices to understand the emotions of the characters (like Pan's Labyrinth), I find that all the emotion is lost. When it comes to games - especially when a lot of the time you can't see the character's faces - this makes the original language lose a lot of feeling. Especially games like Kid Icarus where the screen is completely full of action and there is no time for subtitles.

[Dcubed]

I'd just replay the older games for the rest of my days. This industry is mostly turning to complete shit; Nintendo just happens to be one of the few points of solace still left in this crumbling spire of cinematic, visceral, focus tested, skinner box and microtransaction powered, dudebro infested quasi-interactive QTE shitpile of an industry.

 

Save for a few other exceptions like Platinum Games, Treasure, Capcom (whenever they can sneak the games they want to make past their shiteating execs) and indie developers, the rest of the industry can fall to pieces for all I care.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

I'd just replay the older games for the rest of my days. This industry is mostly turning to complete shit; Nintendo just happens to be one of the few points of solace still left in this crumbling spire of cinematic, visceral, focus tested, skinner box and microtransaction powered, dudebro infested quasi-interactive QTE shitpile of an industry.

 

Save for a few other exceptions like Platinum Games, Treasure, Capcom (whenever they can sneak the games they want to make past their shiteating execs) and indie developers, the rest of the industry can fall to pieces for all I care.

 

It's crazy to think how far these guys have fallen. They were always my favorite 3rd party but now they have just lost the plot.

[Dcubed]

It's crazy to think how far these guys have fallen. They were always my favorite 3rd party but now they have just lost the plot.

 

The sad thing is that they do still have good development staff (yes, even after losing most of Production Studio 4 and Clover), but they're constantly getting blocked by the BOD and their executive producers.

 

It's sad, but they have to fight tooth and nail to get anything they want made (see SF3rd Strike Online, Lost Planet, Dead Rising and the sadly failed MML3) and there's no light at the end of this tunnel. They could quit and join Platinum, but their legacy would still get left behind. Ideally, we'd see their BOD get the boot but that's not going to happen

 

It's pretty much the perfect example of how this industry has shifted over the last generation. To go from having such creative freedom and success last generation (and prior), to being ruled by metrics/game design science & focus testing where you're being dictated to by people "who don't understand games". So very sad.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Dcubed

[tapedeck]

Interesting thread with some great insights.

 

In this generation I was a bit tired of gaming. The Gamecube was, in parts great but with a lack of GTA, PES and other great third party titles - and a decent 'realistic' racer, I was growing tired with Nintendo's lack of third party support and the varied genres such support brings.

 

Now, I love Nintendo's first party efforts and they still fill me with a sense of wonder, intrigue and passion for the medium of video games - but there are KEY titles that they don't develop and thus their customers miss out on.

 

Thus is the conundrum of being a Nintendo gamer. I buy Nintendo systems for that gaming environment. The relationship between hardware and software - for better or worse. Sure, I'd love for it to be like the NES/SNES again where Ninty got their share of the third parties and all of the wealth of genres that came with it. But times have changed and gaming has far outgrown its roots.

 

It's therefore hardly surprising that I bought a Wii on day one. Wii Sports was an amazing thought and THAT controller - the videos just had our minds whirring with possibility. After the Cube, THIS was Nintendo with back's to the wall and doing what they do best.

But AGAIN, the pitfalls were evident when top third party titles didn't arrive. No GTA IV, Batman, Assassins Creed, Driving games, fully-featured footy games.

 

I bought a PS3 for GTA IV and FIFA which had then outgrown the Wii version astronomically.

But it did feel a little soulless. Sure, Bluray is awesome and Uncharted 1/2, Flower, Journey and 3D gaming in HD has been, at times, incredible. But I just want these experiences on the Wii. That TYPICAL Nintendo system that promises so much yet delivers only once or twice a year.

 

And that's not good enough anymore. WiiU needs third party support like never before. Time will tell, but I just think that Nintendo gamers are addicted to the magic. Addicted to the stable of characters. And like any addiction, you crave more. But God damn it's frustrating sometimes.

 

Without a Nintendo console in the industry there would be no Nintendo. I don't think they would "DO A SEGA" and go third party. Without that ecosystem of hardware and software Nintendo would be similar to RARE. Miyamoto paraded around in front of American journos like a prized player as he releases Zelda for Kinect 2...

 

I couldn't think of anything worse.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Just going to pick you up on the bit about footie, @tapedeck .

 

Pro Evo on the Wii (at least, 2011) is just far superior to play than the HD versions. It lacks the presentation features of its counterparts, but there are just so many passages of play that cannot be replicated on the other systems. You can have through balls and stuff, but the ability to control any player on the pitch at the same time as having another of your players controlling the ball is something else. For me, this is far more "next gen" than what I've played on the other systems.

 

At least, it's far superior to any of the latest Fifa releases, which have been dreadful.

[Dcubed]

Just going to pick you up on the bit about footie, @tapedeck .

 

Pro Evo on the Wii (at least, 2011) is just far superior to play than the HD versions. It lacks the presentation features of its counterparts, but there are just so many passages of play that cannot be replicated on the other systems. You can have through balls and stuff, but the ability to control any player on the pitch at the same time as having another of your players controlling the ball is something else. For me, this is far more "next gen" than what I've played on the other systems.

 

At least, it's far superior to any of the latest Fifa releases, which have been dreadful.

 

It's a tragedy just how much Konami screwed the pooch with PES. Never mind the fact that they fucked up the PS360 games and lost the crown to Fifa, but they bungled the release of the Wii games at every turn. Late releases, no online play at the start, lack of (good quality) marketing, poor learning curve for transitioning experienced players onto the Wii controls, etc.

 

Of course, Konami has fallen to pieces anyway now - so I guess they got what they deserved (and their final pillar of Metal Gear will probably fully crumble away soon, given how much they fucked up that franchise too!)

[Hero-of-Time]

Of course, Konami has fallen to pieces anyway now - so I guess they got what they deserved (and their final pillar of Metal Gear will probably fully crumble away soon, given how much they fucked up that franchise too!)

 

MGS games have been fine so far. The next one starring Raiden will be the one to let the side down, although it's a spinoff so if it is pants I just won't count it.

 

But, yeah, Konami is another company that have lost the plot this generation.

[Fused King]

Konami, to me, is:

 

Metal Gear Solid

Castlevania (WHICH IS NOT PANTS!)

DanceDanceRevolution

 

The company should be a Capcom and work closer with NINTENDO in coming up with awesome game ideas.

 

Eledees is still on my backlog, and I've heard it has a good portion of charm in it.

[Fierce_LiNk]

It's a tragedy just how much Konami screwed the pooch with PES. Never mind the fact that they fucked up the PS360 games and lost the crown to Fifa, but they bungled the release of the Wii games at every turn. Late releases, no online play at the start, lack of (good quality) marketing, poor learning curve for transitioning experienced players onto the Wii controls, etc.

 

Of course, Konami has fallen to pieces anyway now - so I guess they got what they deserved (and their final pillar of Metal Gear will probably fully crumble away soon, given how much they fucked up that franchise too!)

 

They have messed up in so many ways, but I disagree with you about the learning curve. I've been playing football games since I could crawl and have played a lot of the more recent Fifa and Pro Evo games. I didn't have a problem at all with the Wii controls on 2011. The tutorials that you get are very well explained and it never at all feels overwhelming. Yes, you will probably lose the first few games, but after that it's pretty simple and so very rewarding.

 

Everything else you say, I agree with. I've seen no marketing at all for these games. They're just sent out to die.

[Beverage]

Nah, like @Fierce_LiNk, @tapedeck, I fully agree with everything that you mentioned other than the foozball thang. I may not appear to be a footnut, but I'm quite an all-rounder in the video game world.

But to stick to the point, the footies on Wii far surpass that the vesions on those HD machines. Far surpass, I say!! (Not visuallly, of course... or, .. on-line-y)

 

But hell yeah I haven't seen an half-decent realistic racer for a while (Burnout/Juiced etc kinda style, but miles more awesome.... super real racers are boring imho)

[nekunando]

Nintendo have always provided me with the magic I require every generation since my very first console, the SNES

 

I did own an XBOX 360 for almost a year in 2010 due to having some interest in getting more out of my HDTV but the reality soon hit when I realised that no matter what I found myself trying to play on the console, I just couldn't feel that desire. I appreciated Nintendo even more as a result of this and was thankful of what they brought to the table with DS and Wii.

 

I'm genuinely excited for Wii U, after a few initial doubts during the confusion of E3 2011, and can't wait to find out more about it and eventually get my hands on it.

 

A couple of years ago, I would perhaps have suggested I'd have to go for an XBOX 360 if Nintendo weren't around any more simply because I find the PS3, it's controller and interface so unappealing but having experienced the console for that 12-month period before selling, I'd have to say that there maybe wouldn't be anything available that could possibly fill the void

 

Thankfully, I feel like I practically have enough games in my collection now anyway to see me through the rest of my life

Edited May 1, 2012 by nekunando

[Beverage]

Oh yeah! Arigato, /nando/, you reminded me:

 

If not Nintendo, then Bev-gen-do. Seriously if you can't rely on others then I'd just have to do it my blimmin' self. I'd study everything that one must in order to be a Nintendo-like, video game developer, then make games for myself! I'd totally ripp Nintendo the fuck off and make all their franchises 'it'. Then from friends & family it will keep spreading and before long my business will grow to fruition. I'd hand over to a loyal trustee and anticipate awesome games. Hopefully I could experience a few adventures before I die and my kids' generation inherit all the fun.

[Dcubed]

They have messed up in so many ways, but I disagree with you about the learning curve. I've been playing football games since I could crawl and have played a lot of the more recent Fifa and Pro Evo games. I didn't have a problem at all with the Wii controls on 2011. The tutorials that you get are very well explained and it never at all feels overwhelming. Yes, you will probably lose the first few games, but after that it's pretty simple and so very rewarding.

 

Everything else you say, I agree with. I've seen no marketing at all for these games. They're just sent out to die.

 

I meant in the first game. They didn't do enough to ease long time PES fans into the new control scheme. So many people I know tried it out and gave up after 5 mins because it was too alien and different for them.

 

Of course the newer games are much better in that respect (and the ability to play against CC Pro players VS Wiimote/Nunchuck gives a great incentive to learn the new controls once the CC Pro players get annialated!), problem is that they won't give it a chance now and those in the media and other positions of influence have already dismissed it. It's just like those people who keep saying that dual analog controls are better than pointer controls for FPS games because Red Steel's controls were shit (the Goldeneye Wii reviews being the most obvious example of this, with it being painfully obvious that these people had not played a Wii FPS before and did not give the pointer controls the time of day)

 

Maybe the Wii U will finally get people to give the Wiimote controls a chance (especially in FPS games when one person uses the tablet's dual analogs and the others use Wiimotes and Nunchucks!)

Edited May 1, 2012 by Dcubed

[Fused King]

Maybe the Wii U will finally get people to give the Wiimote controls a chance (especially in FPS games when one person uses the tablet's dual analogs and the others use Wiimotes and Nunchucks!)

 

I've truly been wondering how this will work, because, to me, them pointer controls are clearly superior to any kind of analogue-style blastin'.

So it would be kind of weird for NINTENDO to show off, say, a new Call of Duty or, say, a Conduit 3 with the WiiUpad instead of with Wii-motes.

That, in turn, of course is also strange for one wouldn't want to market the newest of the newest FPSs with, again, Wii-motes and not your new and shiny controller.

 

This poses a number of problems:

- One can have all the cool interface stuff on your WiiUpad's screen, but I wouldn't want to use those slidepads, so.....will there be an option for me to just use Wii-mote + nunchuck, therefore losing all the extra shizzle that the WiiUpad offers?

 

- Will one perhaps be able to use both the WiiUpad's screen as an extra '2nd' controller, perhaps with a stand on your table or what not in order to see what's going on and interact with it, and then use one's Wii-motes as primary control interface?

 

 

If I recall correctly, that Ghost Recon game showed people using the WiiUpad, right?

With no footage with a Wii-mote present?

[tapedeck]

I don't mean to de-rail the thread turning it into a discussion on PES/FIFA etc so I'll mention this only once and be done with it.

Herein lies the issue for me:

 

Fifa 08 on Wii was a great starting point when it launched. It was what you would expect from a FIFA game and the Mii extras didn't encroach into the existing template. After that it went horrifyingly wrong as EA decided to promote the "All Play" method into everything thus alienating the FIFA players on Wii with Mii's in game and other awful 'gimme's'. It was atrocious and signalled the death-knell for FIFA on Wii.

 

PES looked like a poor PS2 conversion when released but it did at least engage with the Wii remote.

I did miss the Classic controls and was glad to see them return in later iterations due to the notion of just sitting on the couch with a mate and playing some classic PS2-era PES without having to think too much about it. The Playmaker controls were great but enticing friends into them made the game a social excluder - which defeats the purpose of what my football games are all about. FIFA 09 on the HD Twins was a revelation at the time and although I've gone off subsequent versions, PES 2012 HD is immense to me and the Playmaker controls aren't enough to make me get back into the Wii version when all of my friends now exclusively own one of the HD consoles.

 

Wii was meant to be a social machine by it's very design. Unfortunately some titles tried too hard to implement motion control and thus alienated long-time gamers from actively participating. Now, Playmaker controls are important here - as, when mastered they are sublime and re-create the console experience of virtual football. YET - there are millions of gamers already happy with their 'level playing field' of picking up a controller and just pressing buttons.

 

It will be interesting to see how WiiU pans out with the obtuse control mechanisms associated with the system. Will gamers want unequal footing with one gamer controlling through a CC/Remote Setup and one through a WiiU Pad? Or will those classed as "hardcore" invest in two WiiU controllers (if this is confirmed to work)?

 

Time will tell but I do worry about gaming with friends who aren't really hardcore gamers and just like a wander around Vice City, to play a game of footy or shoot or race against their friends.

Edited May 1, 2012 by tapedeck

[Beverage]

Yeah I thoroughly understand where you're coming from tapedeck, it's kind o' like Super Smash Bros - I just couldn't get 'fully' used to the mote & chuck combo, it was slightly different from how the commands were mapped on the cube controller. Strangely, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Swash np managed to make it feel 'right', just still a little off.

But in SSB I just like to pick up a cube control and commence the smashin'. Basically what I'm trying to say is; FUCK TRADITIONAL CONTROLPADS, REFINE THE PISSIN' MOTE & CHUCK - REFINE THE BITCH!! To me, it's like a perfected cube pad - so it should make it natural for players to just pick it up and get into whatever game - appreciating the advanced gaming controls.

 

But since this current mote & chuck isn't perfect, your point stands tall and I thoroughly dig what you be sayin'.

[Coolness Bears]

I'd choose the impossible.

 

I'd choose:

 

V I T A.

[LegoMan1031]

Also being an owner of the three main consoles for several years now, most of my gaming time has been spent on 360 so that would be my answer.

 

Gone are the days where I only owned a gamecube till that started to die away (briefly owned a PS2 for GTA: SA and MGS 2 & 3) and gave me my gaming fix.

 

I do like my PS3 as well but the 360 just feels like a better console for me, the controller, the interface etc.