Project CARS

[liger05]

I can't remember but wasn't there also 360/PS3 versions originally planned which were cancelled.

 

Considering the wii u is barely anymore powerful than those two consoles then you can see why it's such a struggle.

 

I don't know why the developers said the wii u version was defiently coming when the originally announced the delay. I guess they didn't want to break the bad news so early but I think even then they must of known the wii u version was in trouble.

 

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/04/project_cars_dev_making_sure_wii_u_doesnt_get_a_crappy_version

Edited May 25, 2015 by liger05

[khilafah]

Considering the GamePad and pro controller doesn't support analogue triggers this game would have been dumbed down anyway.

[liger05]

Considering the GamePad and pro controller doesn't support analogue triggers this game would have been dumbed down anyway.

 

Wheels and pedals? Does the wii u even support those?

[Zechs Merquise]

I can't remember but wasn't there also 360/PS3 versions originally planned which were cancelled.

 

Considering the wii u is barely anymore powerful than those two consoles then you can see why it's such a struggle.

 

I don't know why the developers said the wii u version was defiently coming when the originally announced the delay. I guess they didn't want to break the bad news so early but I think even then they must of known the wii u version was in trouble.

 

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/04/project_cars_dev_making_sure_wii_u_doesnt_get_a_crappy_version

 

Er... Wasn't this a crowd funded game and they announced that if a certain level of funding was met a Wii U version was guaranteed? Hence, as the funding level was reached, by not delivering on the Wii U version they have broken their pledge to those who donated to the project.

 

Either way, from reading their statement, it sounds like they have a shitty can't be arsed attitude and simply can't be bothered to optimise the Wii U version properly.

 

That would be fully understandable from a commercial point of view and I would respect the decision, if they hadn't essentially had the funding up front for the version to be completed and released.

[liger05]

Er... Wasn't this a crowd funded game and they announced that if a certain level of funding was met a Wii U version was guaranteed? Hence, as the funding level was reached, by not delivering on the Wii U version they have broken their pledge to those who donated to the project.

 

Either way, from reading their statement, it sounds like they have a shitty can't be arsed attitude and simply can't be bothered to optimise the Wii U version properly.

 

That would be fully understandable from a commercial point of view and I would respect the decision, if they hadn't essentially had the funding up front for the version to be completed and released.

 

The question is are they trying and the hardware simply doesn't allow them to get a game at the required standard?

 

Whatever happened originally it could be that the game just reached a development progress that took it beyond the capabilities of the wii u.

 

What can't be denied is the wii u is underpowered and that's the main issue.

[MadDog]

Er... Wasn't this a crowd funded game and they announced that if a certain level of funding was met a Wii U version was guaranteed? Hence, as the funding level was reached, by not delivering on the Wii U version they have broken their pledge to those who donated to the project.

 

Either way, from reading their statement, it sounds like they have a shitty can't be arsed attitude and simply can't be bothered to optimise the Wii U version properly.

 

That would be fully understandable from a commercial point of view and I would respect the decision, if they hadn't essentially had the funding up front for the version to be completed and released.

 

If it doesn't make business sense to them to do it, can you blame them? If they feel it can't be optimised to a good level then why release the game for the sake of it?

[Zechs Merquise]

The question is are they trying and the hardware simply doesn't allow them to get a game at the required standard?

 

Whatever happened originally it could be that the game just reached a development progress that took it beyond the capabilities of the wii u.

 

What can't be denied is the wii u is underpowered and that's the main issue.

 

This is total bull.

 

The Wii U is less powerful, we all know this. But so did Slightly Mad Studios. Whether Nintendo should have made their hardware more powerful is a wholly different argument.

 

The fact is, SMS took people's money and pledged to make a game if the funding reached a certain level. They are now going back on this because it is too much like hard work.

 

What this boils down to is SMS taking people's money and not delivering on their promises.

 

If it doesn't make business sense to them to do it, can you blame them? If they feel it can't be optimised to a good level then why release the game for the sake of it?

 

I can blame them, because they took people's money up front and then haven't delivered on their promises. That is wholly different to a regular publisher making a commercial decision with their own capital. If the later was the case, I would have no problem whatsoever with them pulling the Wii U version. But taking money up front on the basis of promises, then not delivering on those promises is really ripping people off, plain and simple.

[khilafah]

Wait so people would be happy with a dumbed down, graphically lacking game just as long as the Wii U version gets released.

 

Cause that's what's gonna happen if the developers continue with the Wii U version.

 

Seems pretty pointless if you ask me.

[Ashley]

[/b]

 

This is total bull.

 

The Wii U is less powerful, we all know this. But so did Slightly Mad Studios. Whether Nintendo should have made their hardware more powerful is a wholly different argument.

 

The fact is, SMS took people's money and pledged to make a game if the funding reached a certain level. They are now going back on this because it is too much like hard work.

 

What this boils down to is SMS taking people's money and not delivering on their promises.

 

 

 

I can blame them, because they took people's money up front and then haven't delivered on their promises. That is wholly different to a regular publisher making a commercial decision with their own capital. If the later was the case, I would have no problem whatsoever with them pulling the Wii U version. But taking money up front on the basis of promises, then not delivering on those promises is really ripping people off, plain and simple.

 

Unfortunately that's part of the risk with Kickstarter.

 

I wonder how many people actually pledged to get Wii U support and how many were actually just backing and it happened to get to that point. I imagine they did a survey after it ended to gauge interest, anyone know if they did?

[V. Amoleo]

It was actually through their own crowd funding site.

 

Unfortunately that's part of the risk with Kickstarter.

 

This is still an important statement though. If anybody ever backs something on Kickstarter or any crowd funding platform, you need to understand that you're not just buying a product. You're backing an idea. If they can't do it with the money they've raised, that's it. Not a great thing to happen but it can and has happened. If you want guarantees buy it when it's actually for sale.

[Sheikah]

Edit: The news is, I am slow with news.

 

This announcement pretty much shows that the state the Wii U is in is entirely self-inflicted, because even when a dev wants to include them in multiplatform releases, they can't (or at least not easily).

[dazzybee]

Edit: The news is, I am slow with news.

 

This announcement pretty much shows that the state the Wii U is in is entirely self-inflicted, because even when a dev wants to include them in multiplatform releases, they can't (or at least not easily).

 

Surprised you've come to jump on any bad news...

 

It doesn't mean it's entirely self-infliced at all, with that wonderers logic all the many games that do get made by indies shows the wii u is an amazing platform to develop for...

 

Doesn't work. Case by case. Fact is, everyone knew the power of the wii u, they knew, the fact they made a game that can't run (or they are incapable of programming to run) is nothing to do with nintendo and everything to do with this developer. They want to make a powerful racer, fine, don't promise it on the wii u; decided to be more ambitious and over time it exceeded the capabilities of the wii u? Well, bad form after you've taken money from the public, but move on (though their pitiful excuses and desire for NX news is embarrassing). But to blame nintendo like you are... well it's not surprising. But completely ridiculous and wrong. Which is also not surprising.

[Sheikah]

Ah, dazzy. Not like you to not connect the dots, is it?

 

Putting aside the 'honour' of what they've done regarding crowdfunding promise (which I never even touched on), this is a multiplatform game that is probably not going to come to Wii U because of its hardware limitations. You can argue they should have made a technically less impressive game, but that doesn't really dispute the point I was making regarding the wider picture and modern multiplatform releases.

 

What I was pointing out was that the extra work to produce a downgrade means that even when devs appear willing to support Wii U, the extra effort for minimal returns means they abandon it. Yeah, they 'should' deliver what they promised, but don't you see that the hardware of the Wii U is the first, and most important, block to these multiplatform releases coming too Wii U?

 

My comment was more or less aimed at those who think devs are to blame for the lack of Wii U support (abandoning it), rather than Nintendo leaving them little other choice than to abandon it. Also, regarding "they knew the power of the Wii U"; I'm not sure how people know that 100% up front, especially without a game to test when making the pledge goals? Crowdfunding is always taken with a pinch of salt and rarely do people renege out of malice, you know.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Sheikah

[dazzybee]

Ah, dazzy. Not like you to not connect the dots, is it?

 

Putting aside the 'honour' of what they've done regarding crowdfunding promise (which I never even touched on), this is a multiplatform game that is probably not going to come to Wii U because of its hardware limitations. You can argue they should have made a technically less impressive game, but that doesn't really dispute the point I was making regarding the wider picture and modern multiplatform releases.

 

What I was pointing out was that the extra work to produce a downgrade means that even when devs appear willing to support Wii U, the extra effort for minimal returns means they abandon it. Yeah, they 'should' deliver what they promised, but don't you see that the hardware of the Wii U is the first, and most important, block to these multiplatform releases coming too Wii U?

 

My comment was more or less aimed at those who think devs are to blame for the lack of Wii U support (abandoning it), rather than Nintendo leaving them little other choice than to abandon it. Also, regarding "they knew the power of the Wii U"; I'm not sure how people know that 100% up front, especially without a game to test when making the pledge goals? Crowdfunding is always taken with a pinch of salt and rarely do people renege out of malice, you know.

 

Oh I don't doubt the power is a major obstacle for some 3rd parties, definitely. Though with lots of stuff going to 360 and PS3 and not Wii U it certainly isn't a big one. I guess the only thing I found off about what you were saying was blaming nintendo, like it's self inflicted all this happens. Project cars is not Nintendos fault, not getting 3rd parties that are on 360 ps3 isn't nintendos fault etc. They don't think it's financially worth it, that's it.

 

I guess it's a blame thing. Most of the time, it's no ones fault. Everyone knows the situation, either play along, or don't. As Cars, that is indefinitely the developers fault!

[Sheikah]

Project Cars not getting a downgraded version of the game in order for them to keep their promise is the developer's fault. Not getting a non-downgraded version is Nintendo's fault.

[Ganepark32]

Have to say, fair cop to Slightly Mad Studios on this. Not because they may not release the game on the Wii U but for wanting to maintain a standard and not compromise the product simply to get it out to market.

 

Yes, it's going to ruffle a few feathers but it's a practice that the industry very much needs; developers caring enough about the product they are making such that they don't want to release an inferior product to the market if it means compromising their brief in the hope of some, and in this case a relative small chance/amount of, revenue.

 

From the sounds of it, the developers have been trying their upmost to get the game to look as good as possible and to at least minimise the margin of visual infidelities there would be in the Wii U version in comparison to the PS4/XbOne versions. But to not have the processing power or memory there to help them get the game to run as it is at anything above 23fps, they feel they shouldn't have to drop the graphical fidelity in anyway and I wholeheartedly agree with that notion, even if others don't.

 

You can argue about whose fault it is but ultimately, the developers feel that the hardware does not allow them to realise what they want from their game and in that respect, blame wholly and resolutely falls to the hardware manufacture, thus Nintendo, for not providing the necessary power under the hood to get the game to run well. A developer shouldn't have to compromise on their vision as a result of poor futureproofing and planning by a hardware manufacture, no matter who it is.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Ganepark32

[Hogge]

Wait so people would be happy with a dumbed down, graphically lacking game just as long as the Wii U version gets released.

 

Cause that's what's gonna happen if the developers continue with the Wii U version.

 

Seems pretty pointless if you ask me.

 

Personally, I only ever saw this as the Wii U's equivalent of Gran Turismo. Thus Slightly Mad has rendered their game pointless in my book.

 

From a business standpoint, this is probably an acceptable choice, seeing the terrible sales of Need For Speed for the system. However, the fact of the matter is that consumers have (indirectly) paid for their Wii U copies in advance via crowdfunding. The question is how funding would've gone if they had not promised to release it for the system.

[liger05]

Personally, I only ever saw this as the Wii U's equivalent of Gran Turismo. Thus Slightly Mad has rendered their game pointless in my book.

 

From a business standpoint, this is probably an acceptable choice, seeing the terrible sales of Need For Speed for the system. However, the fact of the matter is that consumers have (indirectly) paid for their Wii U copies in advance via crowdfunding. The question is how funding would've gone if they had not promised to release it for the system.

 

Isn't that irrelevant in the sense that funding ideas does not guarantee anything. There is always a risk which people are aware of.

 

Another point wasn't the PC f2p the original project?

[Happenstance]

Yeah this is the problem with crowdfunding. Too many people think it is basically a preorder service when its not.

[dazzybee]

I think it should be to be honest. I think it's plain wrong to say we raise 200,000 and it will be on the wii u. And it reaches it, but doesn't come out. It is wrong on every level in my eyes. You are so fucking inept and incapable of understanding your product then you shouldn't put platforms or any specifics and be far more honest and upfront about it.

[Sheikah]

I think it should be to be honest. I think it's plain wrong to say we raise 200,000 and it will be on the wii u. And it reaches it, but doesn't come out. It is wrong on every level in my eyes. You are so fucking inept and incapable of understanding your product then you shouldn't put platforms or any specifics and be far more honest and upfront about it.

 

That's a bad idea. If people were forcibly 'held' to their promises then rewards/stretch goals and such would likely be pretty shit, safe plays.

 

It's harsh to suggest that the fact they're suspending Wii U support is that they're inept and incapable of understanding. That comment shows a real lack of thought, I think. The whole point of crowdfunding is that you take an idea, pitch it, then use that money to make the game. Ergo, they don't actually know how well it runs on the platform when they pitch it. They no doubt looked at the Wii U specs on paper and made judgements about whether it would run on it, but then when it came to making it they couldn't get the game at 720p to run above 23 FPS without significantly cutting the game back into something not so fun. Sucks, but it's hard to know the intricacies of a platform when you pitch it.

 

The current system for crowdfunding is fine if you ask me - just look at Godus. They totally fucked up making it, and now they will never get funding again. Trust is the best regulator of crowdfunding; if they really screw up, their reputation is ruined. But I think in this case, people won't care too much, as I think people will probably understand why they had to do it.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Sheikah

[Wii]

First Wii U footage of Project Cars. Some compromises had to be made.

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I don't think we'll see it. It'll be too late, probably more expensive than the other versions by that time and it'll be severely lacking compared to the other platforms. Wasn't it nice of Wii U owners to pay for the other versions and get nothing in return?

[dazzybee]

That's a bad idea. If people were forcibly 'held' to their promises then rewards/stretch goals and such would likely be pretty shit, safe plays.

 

It's harsh to suggest that the fact they're suspending Wii U support is that they're inept and incapable of understanding. That comment shows a real lack of thought, I think. The whole point of crowdfunding is that you take an idea, pitch it, then use that money to make the game. Ergo, they don't actually know how well it runs on the platform when they pitch it. They no doubt looked at the Wii U specs on paper and made judgements about whether it would run on it, but then when it came to making it they couldn't get the game at 720p to run above 23 FPS without significantly cutting the game back into something not so fun. Sucks, but it's hard to know the intricacies of a platform when you pitch it.

 

The current system for crowdfunding is fine if you ask me - just look at Godus. They totally fucked up making it, and now they will never get funding again. Trust is the best regulator of crowdfunding; if they really screw up, their reputation is ruined. But I think in this case, people won't care too much, as I think people will probably understand why they had to do it.

 

These guys aren't creating a new, un-kown, concept-driven product, they're making a game. If they don't understand the process of making a game, the engineering involved, the hardware they promised to make it on, I'm sorry but that is really really poor.

 

I could pitch to make a film, any film, and I would know exactly what I needed to make it happen for a certain budget. Because that's the medium I know. If I said I'd make a specific film, and I didn't, then I'm either wilfully deceitful, or I'm inept.

 

I think they just can't be arsed in all honestly. And coming up with cheap excuses. I think it's pretty bad and borderline amateur on their part.

[Sheikah]

These guys aren't creating a new, un-kown, concept-driven product, they're making a game. If they don't understand the process of making a game, the engineering involved, the hardware they promised to make it on, I'm sorry but that is really really poor.

 

I could pitch to make a film, any film, and I would know exactly what I needed to make it happen for a certain budget. Because that's the medium I know. If I said I'd make a specific film, and I didn't, then I'm either wilfully deceitful, or I'm inept.

 

I think they just can't be arsed in all honestly. And coming up with cheap excuses. I think it's pretty bad and borderline amateur on their part.

 

So they had to know beforehand how well their game, which wasn't made yet (in fact, was a concept), would run on every piece of hardware, despite not having the game itself to test on those pieces of hardware? I mean, sure, they can have an idea, but how can they know for sure?

 

The truth is, they could have made it for Wii U. They thought they could have made it run on Wii U in its current state, but it only reached 23 FPS. That sounds like a reasonable margin of error to me; it wasn't exactly running at 10 FPS. Yet cutting enough to gain 7 FPS was not something they wanted to do as they thought it'd diminish the experience for everyone else. It's a catch 22 as they either make a universally shit looking game or screw over a small proportion of gamers. This unwinnable situation is why I don't believe this was a malicious decision (ie. pitch for Wii U then drop it).

 

That film and game comparison is pretty wack. You make a film once and it will run on any Blu Ray player. A game you make separate versions of and they don't all run the same on the several pieces of hardware.

[dazzybee]

So they had to know beforehand how well their game, which wasn't made yet (in fact, was a concept), would run on every piece of hardware, despite not having the game itself to test on those pieces of hardware? I mean, sure, they can have an idea, but how can they know for sure?

 

The truth is, they could have made it for Wii U. They thought they could have made it run on Wii U in its current state, but it only reached 23 FPS. That sounds like a reasonable margin of error to me; it wasn't exactly running at 10 FPS. Yet cutting enough to gain 7 FPS was not something they wanted to do as they thought it'd diminish the experience for everyone else. It's a catch 22 as they either make a universally shit looking game or screw over a small proportion of gamers. This unwinnable situation is why I don't believe this was a malicious decision (ie. pitch for Wii U then drop it).

 

That film and game comparison is pretty wack. You make a film once and it will run on any Blu Ray player. A game you make separate versions of and they don't all run the same on the several pieces of hardware.

 

Yes, it could've been made, they can make it work, but they can't be bothered to, it's quite simple, they've chosen not to honour their promise. You may think this is acceptable I don't.

 

As for your film comment, I don't know even know where to begin with it. So making a film is easier? (not sure this IS what you're saying but seems it) Fact is, it's all time and money, that is all it is. They COULD make it work on the wii u. All art forms are the same, with time/money you know what you are capable of achieving. They knew the game, the knew the hardware, they can work it. They are choosing not to. Exactly the same as a film, you know what kind of film you want to make (always surprises along the way), you know your budget and the promises you made. You don't do it that is an unbelievable failure.

 

Using kickstarter as an excuse is so pitiful. What if they pitched the same thing to a publisher - they agreed a budget, the systems, they can just say - you know what, we can't do it? I really don't think so, and if they did they'd struggle for work afterward. Fact is, they CAN get away with it, because people accept it, like you - it's kickstarter! It's fine. Or even worse like you did, blame Nintendo - now that was hilarious!