Ancient Aliens

[Mokong]

Just thought I'd try get a bit of discussion on this topic, I know we've had a few "Alien" and UFO related threads before but they all tend to be about the possiblity of UFO's visiting us now and in the recent past. I don't think we've ever had any discussion on the "Ancient Astronuant" theory.

 

I've been watching a lot of the "Ancient Aliens" TV program on the History Channel over the last few months and kept thinking I should make a thread on it but kept forgetting so finally here I am typing away

 

Whether you think it's a load of bollocks or something that you find interesting I'd like to know what other people think.

 

I think the basic idea of the "Ancient Alien/Astronuant" theory that catches my imagination is the idea that the Gods described in many (if not all) ancient texts/cultures from the Greeks and Rome to the Mayans and ancient China to even the Bibles angels and "God" were actually Aliens that visited Earth and were mistaken by our ancestors as being gods.

 

Just taking that part it does make some sense (if it happened, for example). Just imagine if we were able to go back in time 5000 years with various "technologies" that we have today and showed it to the people of that time. They would think we were gods.

 

If we time travelled back with a gun, for example, the people of 5000years ago might see it as magic or as you shooting a bolt of lighting from your hand (Zeus, Thor). If we went back in time and had a plane with us and flew around in it visiting different people. They wouldn't describe it as a plane, they'd likely describe it as a giant bird or a roaring dragon that carried you around. (Ancient Chinese gods were described to have travelled around on or in dragons)

 

The story of Jesus in the bible I think is an interesting one to apply this theory to. An "angel" Gabriel comes to a virgin Mary and tells her she is pregnant. It's just as much a leap of fate to theorise that is was an act of "God" as it is to theorise that is was an Alien who was experimenting in impregnanting human women... Jesus was half Alien? Wouldn't that drive the Church insane, haha.

 

Or in the bible and ancient texts when angels are being described as ascending or decending sometimes it is described as on a pillar of smoke during the day or a pillar of fire at night.... which today sounds more like a space shuttle taking off.

 

 

How were the likes of the pyramids built with tech of 5000 years ago? How would builders/architechs of today fair in replicating such structures.... apparently some say they would struggle and/or couldn't even with the tech they have available today. (Surely any Stargate fans will appreciate that one, haha)

 

Or for those who like the theory that Aliens may have messed with ancient mans DNA tens of thousands of years ago, I always find this quote from the bible interesting when thinking of this

 

"Then God said, "Let us make man in our likeness. "

 

Why would the "one and only" God "speak" in plural? If he's the only "God" who is he refering to when he says "us" and "our"? If you check any bible printing it's funny how you can still find contradictions like this, I'm actually surprised the Church never revised it.

 

Of course going away from the idea of Aliens, things like this could also be used to try and say that Jews originally were polytheists before becoming monothesits and things like this were just left over remnants of those original polythesist beginings.

 

Just the idea that there is actually so much about our past that is taken for granted it's a great "what if" for the imagination to run wild with. Indeed "what if" sometime in the (near) future it was proved true? If scientists studying human DNA found something to suggest our DNA was tampered with? Or if Aliens landed/revealed themselves and said "oh by the way we were here 5000 years ago and the humans of that time worshiped us as gods"? What would that mean for us today? How would people react especially religious organisations.

 

I'd love to see how the Church would try to survive if Aliens came down and showed that Jesus was not the son of god but a human-alien hybrid... and his "resurection" was just the Aliens taking his body and reviving him (if say he wasn't so far gone that he wasn't beyond revival using their medical science).

 

So what do you think? Do you watch the Ancient Aliens show on the History Channel?

 

Do you think the idea is a load of rubbish or do you like the idea and think there's an equal chance that Ancient Aliens did intervene with our development as there is that "God watched over us".

 

 

 

 

EDIT

Damn, long post is long

[Grazza]

It's an extremely interesting theory. I don't have the History Channel, but am curious to watch this when I get a chance.

 

The thing that makes me sceptical about it is that ancient technology is just that - ancient technology. The pyramids are amazing, but still primitive enough to be the epitome of human genius, rather than something otherworldly. If aliens had anything to do with them, they would be far more high tech than anything we have now, which, amazing as they are, is not the case. Same goes for the early electricty of Mesopotamia.

 

Motivation, too, can be explained via non-extraterrestrial ways. The Nazca lines in Peru (which include drawings of animals), for example, are certainly extraordinary, but can be explained if you accept the people were presenting them to the spirits. These spirits of theirs need not have actually existed - the belief in them would have been motivation enough to create them.

 

But, like all similar subjects, I try to approach it neither with scepticism nor belief. I simply like to think of the most logical explanation for what is presented to me. The thing that really does keep this subject interesting is The Missing Link - the giant leap in fossil records between modern humans and our ancestors. At some point our brains became much bigger and we became much more intelligent. I would not discount the possibility that, at that point, we were hybridised by aliens.

[Dan_Dare]

[EEVILMURRAY]

Isn't the ancient alien the shizzle that Scientologists believe?

[Mokong]

Isn't the ancient alien the shizzle that Scientologists believe?

 

hhmm... never thought of them, don't know exactly what they believe in.... but I'm sure they've got it twisted to suit their own pseudo-religious needs

 

Just wanted to see if there was any discussion to be had here since we've had a few UFO threads recently and if anyone else watched the show on Histroy Channel.

 

I guess where it steams from most is the way ancient cultures tend to describe their gods as having physical interaction with people on earth, it's makes for a good "What if" idea if some of those legends held some truth, if there was a physical "person" assuming the role of Zeus (for example), who displayed various "powers" it's easy to imagine how someone from 5000 years ago would assume that "person" to be a "God".

 

If you saw a UFO in the sky tonight you'd have one of a few reactions, you'd dismiss it, you'd think you imagined it or you may think you had a close encounter. If "ancient man" saw a UFO in the sky he'd likely think it was an angel or a god.

 

Oh and @Dan, I did leave the floor open for if you think it's a load of bollocks for you to state an opinion as to why... then you can facepalm afterwards :wink:

 

The thing that makes me sceptical about it is that ancient technology is just that - ancient technology. The pyramids are amazing, but still primitive enough to be the epitome of human genius, rather than something otherworldly. If aliens had anything to do with them, they would be far more high tech than anything we have now, which, amazing as they are, is not the case. Same goes for the early electricty of Mesopotamia.

 

 

I think the idea with the pyramids is that man had help in how they were built, the precise cutting, moving and placment of the blocks etc, using earthly marterials rather than trying to create something "unearthly"

 

There was another episode which mentioned about a civilasation (i think somewhere in South America... can;t remember exactly) where it appeared some of the large stonework was moulded but dated back to a time when man wouldn't have (or is expected to not have had) had the ability to create heat high enough to melt the stones in that area

Edited August 11, 2011 by Mokong
Automerged Doublepost

[Diageo]

Before everything unknown was said to be gods. Now people say aliens. I don't buy it.

[Grazza]

hhmm... never thought of them, don't know exactly what they believe in.... but I'm sure they've got it twisted to suit their own pseudo-religious needs

 

Quite. I don't associate this with Scientology at all. My understanding is that they have a "story" of some kind that they gradually reveal to their followers. The Ancient Aliens theory, however, is associated with Erich Von Daniken and to my mind, even at its worst, is no more sinister than a way to sell books.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken

 

I think the idea with the pyramids is that man had help in how they were built, the precise cutting, moving and placment of the blocks etc, using earthly marterials rather than trying to create something "unearthly"

 

Even so, I do think it's more likely that archaeologists have made mistakes with their dates. For example, I've seen them say that the Great Pyramid was built in X amount of years, which does not tally with the construction method. Personally, I doubt they can date it accurately.

[jayseven]

Thinks like this are things I love to sit and contemplate, perhaps even dialogue with a like-minded friend and a bottle of the strong stuff.

 

But they're not things I believe.

 

It's all very well and good saying "if we took today's powers back in time then we'd be Gods!!" ... but 'we' could've said that 500 years ago. Even 2000 years ago they'd've appeard akin to Gods if they had taken their skills and tech back to 'caveman' times.

 

I think it's perfectly healthy to let your imagination get carried away with theories like this, buuut let's not get all conspiracy nuts :P

[nekunando]

I haven't actually read any posts in this thread yet but I just want to thank Mokong X-C for reminding me about this programme as a friend of mine has been encouraging to watch Ancient Aliens on YouTube for a while now as he finds it fascinating

 

I'd say I'll probably find it pretty interesting too but that's not to suggest that I'll actually believe any of it to be true. I'm sure it will be thought-provoking, at the very least

[EEVILMURRAY]

buuut let's not get all conspiracy nuts :P

But we got rid of our last one so there's a space there.

 

 

JAY. YOU'RE HIRED.

 

 

Your first conspiracy: Toilet rolls are the same size because the Government uses them for mind control. Go.

[MoogleViper]

It's easy to say "It could be this, it could be that..." It could be an infinite amount of explanations. When you have very little evidence either way other than a few stories, it's easy to make almost anything fit.

 

Your first conspiracy: Toilet rolls are the same size because the Government uses them for mind control. Go.

 

But they aren't all the same size. You get a morrisons value toilet roll and it will be nowhere as big as an Andrex one. It will be shorter and narrower, one of the reasons why they're false economies.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

While I absolutely love stuff like this (X-Files, anyone? ) and love reading and theorising about it, my belief in it has already been summed up very well:

 

Before everything unknown was said to be gods. Now people say aliens. I don't buy it.

 

And to quote one of my favourite authors: "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

 

While it's a theory that explains a lot and seems to fit very well, the problem is that it has no basis whatsoever in reality as we know it - it's built entirely on a premise with no supporting evidence. The much more logical conclusion is that it was just humans.

[Coolness Bears]

YOU'RE ALL JUST SMOOTHY WANNABE LUMPY POSERs.

 

[EEVILMURRAY]

But they aren't all the same size.

Dun dun DUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!

[MoogleViper]

YOU'RE ALL JUST SMOOTHY WANNABE LUMPY POSERs.

 

Actually we're all descended from exiled Golgafrinchan hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, telephone sanitisers and the like.

[Mokong]

It's all very well and good saying "if we took today's powers back in time then we'd be Gods!!" ... but 'we' could've said that 500 years ago. Even 2000 years ago they'd've appeard akin to Gods if they had taken their skills and tech back to 'caveman' times.

 

I was using the idea of us going back in time just as an example of how it might look showing "high tech" stuff to low tech people. I think for example showing a gun to someone using a bow and arrow would appear far more magical than showing a bow and arrow to someone using a pointy stick. And in the big "what if" scenario if an advanced alien race visited earth so many years ago they'd have obviously had something that would appear even more magical than a gun. Of course if aliens visited us today we have teh knowledge now to go know they are physical beings that are just too far ahead of us in tech. Ancient man can only really draw a few conclusions of it either being magic or godly.

 

 

Note: Just like to point out that while my posts might make it look like I "believe" this stuff to be true, I actually don't, I just find it fascinating to think about the possibility of it. Though I guess there is a part of me that might hope it were true, haha.

 

Afterall, there was a time when the city of Troy was believed to be just a story, untill it was found.... "what if" there was some truth in the "Gods" physically interacting with humans too as ancient cultures describe? :wink:

 

I haven't actually read any posts in this thread yet but I just want to thank Mokong X-C for reminding me about this programme as a friend of mine has been encouraging to watch Ancient Aliens on YouTube for a while now as he finds it fascinating

 

Cheers, glad to be of service

 

I never thought about checking youtube for episodes either... here is the very first ep, I think the part that caught my imagination (after the "were the gods really aliens" bit is around 30mins when they go onto cave painting and statues that seem to depict "people" wearing helmets similar to space suits and the pre-columbian figures of planes.

 

[Aimless]

As a fictional conceit I think the idea's great — I love Assassin's Creed's hokey meta story — but realistically I think it does humanity a disservice.

 

Whilst people today are arguably 'smarter' than a few hundred years ago, I imagine that's more down to baseline education as opposed to physiological superiority. In other words the greatest minds of today aren't so different to those of generations past, but during those earlier periods there was greater scope to innovate and revolutionise by virtue of their being fewer entrenched ideas. These days things are more about refinement, which has less shock value but is just as impressive in its own right.

[arab_freak]

Isn't the ancient alien the shizzle that Scientologists believe?

 

Exactly what I was thinking. It sort of makes me wonder though; why would these aliens leave us in the first place? We have a planet's worth of resources and it seems strange they wouldn't want to exploit that. Maybe we're all just being quietly observed as part of a massive scientific experiment spanning thousands of years.

 

The thing that makes me sceptical about it is that ancient technology is just that - ancient technology. The pyramids are amazing, but still primitive enough to be the epitome of human genius, rather than something otherworldly.

 

Here's one of my favorite explanations on how they were built:

 

[Mokong]

Exactly what I was thinking. It sort of makes me wonder though; why would these aliens leave us in the first place? We have a planet's worth of resources and it seems strange they wouldn't want to exploit that. Maybe we're all just being quietly observed as part of a massive scientific experiment spanning thousands of years.

 

What do you think all those UFO's people see every now and then are doing, haha.

 

Or they could be still here and walking amongst us... they just look like us.

Taking that quote from Genisis I quoted in the OP, if you assume "God" to be an alien mistaken for god then Aliens shaped us in their image?

 

Why did they leave? They didn't they just inter bred with us.... as a means to continue their own speices in some way after their own planet became unable to sustain them?

 

One (or some) of the episodes of Ancient Aliens does mention the anicent Sumarian (sp?) civilasation whose gods the Anunaki (sp?) "came from the heavens" and made man to be a labour force to mine some of Earth materials... so there's that, maybe they got enough of what they wanted and left and maybe return after a few thousand years when they need more?

 

Afterall you don't live a shop just cause it has all the things you need :wink:

 

 

Here's one of my favorite explanations on how they were built:

 

Cheers for that, fully enjoyed that watch.

 

Side note: Still at the top of my "Must go see/visit" list... one day... one day

[Grazza]

Ah, I'm with you, Mokong. This stuff makes life more interesting. Unlike cults, it's not about brainwashing or trying to control people. It's just trying to solve mysteries that are genuinely there.

 

I think it's worth pointing out how opposed some people are to the idea of aliens. Sometimes I ask people if they believe in ghosts and they say "yes" (let's not get into that again though!) When I ask them if they believe aliens have ever visited us, or even if aliens exist at all, they scoff at the thought, as if it's a totally ridiculous idea. So, whilst there is the stereotype of the "I want to believe" person, there are also those who really hate the idea so much they reject it outright. Why is this the case? I can only assume they don't like entertaining the idea that human earthlings may not be the most advanced species.

 

I concede that there is no conclusive evidence. On the other hand, there is enough data to make it a valid theory. After all, theories don't have to be correct!

[EddieColeslaw]

Exactly what I was thinking. It sort of makes me wonder though; why would these aliens leave us in the first place? We have a planet's worth of resources and it seems strange they wouldn't want to exploit that. Maybe we're all just being quietly observed as part of a massive scientific experiment spanning thousands of years.

 

Maybe there are much better planets out there that they've found, with more resources than Earth.

 

Mokong, this is very interesting, I didn't know there was an actual Ancient Alien/Astronaut theory. However I have to say that I don't believe/don't care - not because I'm an ignorant pillock, but what does it matter? There are so many possibilities, this is just one theory. Unless there's undeniable evidence, I'm not bothered about not knowing whether or not there are/were "ancient aliens". (Not to stomp all over your thread, but that's just my POV )

 

As David Eagleman wrote,

 

If the odds for life on other planets is one in a billion we can still expect several billion planets with life.

[arab_freak]

I forgot to mention there was a film from about 5 years ago (I think) about astronauts getting lost on Mars or something, and they discover the remains of an ancient civilization that lived on Mars who sent their last-living clones to Earth to populate the planet; right before leaving for another planet. The movie ends with one of the astronauts boarding a spaceship that carries him to their planet. I'm sure some of you must've heard of a similar story while playing Doom 3, so I don't think the idea is that new.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I think it's worth pointing out how opposed some people are to the idea of aliens. Sometimes I ask people if they believe in ghosts and they say "yes" (let's not get into that again though!) When I ask them if they believe aliens have ever visited us, or even if aliens exist at all, they scoff at the thought, as if it's a totally ridiculous idea. So, whilst there is the stereotype of the "I want to believe" person, there are also those who really hate the idea so much they reject it outright.

 

Isn't it scientifically more plausible that aliens exist and have visited us than that ghosts exist?

 

but what does it matter? There are so many possibilities, this is just one theory. Unless there's undeniable evidence, I'm not bothered about not knowing whether or not there are/were "ancient aliens". (Not to stomp all over your thread, but that's just my POV )

 

It's funny, I both agree and disagree with this. I agree that in our daily lives it's not really relevant whether we evolved from aliens or were visited by them in the past. But on a larger scale our understanding of the past and of past cultures and experiences is part of what shapes our understanding of our entire existence.

[Emasher]

My opinion on this and conspiracy theories in general is that if people spent the time they do coming up with this fiction, actually becoming educated and doing research, we'd be a much more advanced civilization today. It might be fun to speculate about, but that's never going to get us anywhere. When there's no evidence whatsoever, theories become little more than entertainment. I especially dislike people who try and push their theories as fact (9/11, JFK Assassination, Moon Landing, etc.).

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

My opinion on this and conspiracy theories in general is that if people spent the time they do coming up with this fiction, actually becoming educated and doing research, we'd be a much more advanced civilization today. It might be fun to speculate about, but that's never going to get us anywhere. When there's no evidence whatsoever, theories become little more than entertainment. I especially dislike people who try and push their theories as fact (9/11, JFK Assassination, Moon Landing, etc.).

 

Regarding the JFK Assassination, hasn't there actually been uncovered evidence suggesting it wasn't just a lone gunman?