PS3 or Xbox 360

[Shorty]

But like I pointed out you need the face buttons more than you need to switch from left stick to d-pad.

 

To be honest, I want to recommend the 360, I have about 80% 360 games, 10% Wii and 10% PS3. I get all my multiplatform games for 360, even if they're better on the PS3. But my reason is pretty poor. My only real negative for the PS3 has been the unreliability of the network, which has been sorted lately. Also the store is still shit, and there aren't enough trial versions of downloadable games. And there's nothing as well defined as XBLA (which is your Virtual Console of the 360).

 

But... my real reason is probably achievements. I love them. And I would probably love trophies more if they had come out first, but they didn't and I was already hooked on achievements.

 

So unless the things in my second paragraph sound like game-changers, or you really want ME1, Halo and Gears of War (even more than you want Uncharted, Resistance, Killzone, LBP, inFamous and God of War) I'd say get a PS3.

[Cube]

But... my real reason is probably achievements. I love them. And I would probably love trophies more if they had come out first, but they didn't and I was already hooked on achievements.

 

 

I used to be crazy for achievements. Then I got to 50,000 and just thought "I'm not going to reach another milestone for ages" and kind of lost interest in them all. Although I've never been interested in trophies on PS3. It's a pain to even look at them (due to the horrible CMB).

[Sheikah]

But like I pointed out you need the face buttons more than you need to switch from left stick to d-pad.

 

To be honest, I want to recommend the 360, I have about 80% 360 games, 10% Wii and 10% PS3. I get all my multiplatform games for 360, even if they're better on the PS3. But my reason is pretty poor. My only real negative for the PS3 has been the unreliability of the network, which has been sorted lately. Also the store is still shit, and there aren't enough trial versions of downloadable games. And there's nothing as well defined as XBLA (which is your Virtual Console of the 360).

 

I still think the right stick has more use than even face buttons for many 3D games now.

 

And you must be having a laugh, the 360 has no backlog of games from the glory days so Nintendo and Sony have the VC argument won on that one. There's trial version for most decent games, plus for the price of XBL gold you have your online gaming plus loads of free games (many of them good ones) plus trials for things.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Sheikah

[Shorty]

I'm not on about the old games, VC was a bad comparison. I mean just downloadable games like Braid, Bastion, Bionic Commando, Lara Croft Guardians, Shadow Complex, Trials HD, Splosion Man, Portal, Plants vs Zombies, Geometry Wars, Perfect Dark, Sonic 4, N+, Super Meat Boy, Rez HD, Streets of Rage, Ikaruga.

 

I know most of these are on both, but for whatever reason there's no single category to find all these games in on the PS3, and they don't all have a free trial version.

[Happenstance]

For me I prefer the 360 controller and I think Xbox Live, Arcade and the XB Dashboard are better than the PSN (though not by as much as it used to be) the PS3 is still my main console. I prefer the exclusive games it has, its nice not to have to pay for online play and blu rays for both movies and gaming have been better (ie 1 disk instead of 2 for some games).

 

Also, ive just recently started watching some dvds on my 360 for the first time since I got a new one. Did you always have to bring up a menu to just pause something?

[Shorty]

No just press start.

[Happenstance]

Ah thats better thanks.

[Sheikah]

I'm not on about the old games, VC was a bad comparison. I mean just downloadable games like Braid, Bastion, Bionic Commando, Lara Croft Guardians, Shadow Complex, Trials HD, Splosion Man, Portal, Plants vs Zombies, Geometry Wars, Perfect Dark, Sonic 4, N+, Super Meat Boy, Rez HD, Streets of Rage, Ikaruga.

 

I know most of these are on both, but for whatever reason there's no single category to find all these games in on the PS3, and they don't all have a free trial version.

 

With these games being so short I don't see why they all need a trial version. Fairly sure they have their own place in PSN, but even then I'm not sure what the problem is. You know the game you want is Braid, so it makes infinitely more sense to search 'Braid' than to waste even 10 seconds clicking a category and scrolling through it.

[Shorty]

No... You shouldn't know the name of the game before you start, that's just stupid.

 

It's a type of game where you should be able to just browse through and pick one. Downloads are small and fast so you can trial something that looks good or is well received and get it based on that. You should be able to view the most popular/most downloaded and go from there.

 

360 also has a huge Indie selection at dirt cheap prices with some great little titles like Applejack and the Impossible Game.

 

There is not a section just for these kind of games on the PS3. There is PS3 games (encompassing these types of games), demos and minis, but nothing in between.

[Sheikah]

Of course you would know the names of games you actually want before you start. I knew the name of Braid. If it's a good game, by word of mouth or reviews you are sure to have heard of it.

 

Otherwise you are just demoing game after game in the hope one is good. And there is a LOT of shit to trawl through. Why would I do that when I could be playing Skyrim?

 

As new titles come out they filter to the top, and reviews of games are readily visible. They're also sorted into what type of game they are. The kinds of games at throwaway prices like a pound DO have their own section, and let's face it they're the only ones that it would be reasonable to throw money at without knowing little about it.

 

I'm somewhat negative towards the demos for very short titles, if only because for some like stacking and costume quest you lose everything if you don't buy it within the game in that session. If you have to enter a PSN card to get funds you have to quit out and do it all again.

[Happenstance]

Not everyone is as well informed about games as we are, not everyone will know the titles of games before they go into the store. You seem to be thinking about it from your own personal needs rather than practical needs for everyone.

[Aimless]

The Store is less cohesive than the Marketplace, but I feel that's somewhat inevitable given how much the PS3 has transformed from a functionality stand point. I imagine Vita's Live Areas — where leaderboards, user comments and DLC are instantly accessible from a game's launch screen — give a good indication of how the PS4 will improve in this regard; in many ways the PS3's launch was the fall from grace Sony needed.

 

For the record you can view PSN content based on popularity, though. Top Sellers is one of the first level options.

 

Anyway, the crux of my general argument is that the PS3 and 360 are so similar I don't see why people get so heated about the small discrepancies. It's like the whole left stick situation: it makes no difference to me whether I have to move my thumb 15 degrees up or 15 degrees down, both are 'unnatural' yet perfectly comfortable.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Aimless

[Sheikah]

Not everyone is as well informed about games as we are, not everyone will know the titles of games before they go into the store. You seem to be thinking about it from your own personal needs rather than practical needs for everyone.

 

Of course we should think about our own needs! We were talking about personal opinions as to why we do/do not like certain stores. We are well informed, so there is no real need for this for us. Who cares what Billy from down the road needs? If you don't need it, I don't see a reason to knock it for not being there. Plus there's no real reason why anyone with internet access couldn't google best PSN games or similar before pissing a fiver down the drain.

[Cube]

Besides, just using Xbox.com is far superior than using the stores on either console.

[Oxigen_Waste]

Strongly disagree, the right analogue stick is used by the overwhelming majority of 3D games, and it's used a lot because adjusting camera is just as vital as moving.

 

Of course, I never argued otherwise. Hell, I'm such a control freak with the camera, I'm constantly changing it... but the point is, it's used in a secondary function... (usually camera adjusting), the face buttons wouldn't make sense that far down.

[Sheikah]

I wouldn't consider it secondary to buttons, it gets used more than the buttons. Either way it makes little difference where it is for me.

[Oxigen_Waste]

I wouldn't consider it secondary to buttons, it gets used more than the buttons. Either way it makes little difference where it is for me.

 

C'mon, no it doesn't. It does by me, but by the majority of people it certainly does not...

 

Indeed, thouh, the stick placement is the least of my woes about the DS3.

[Sheikah]

C'mon, no it doesn't. It does by me, but by the majority of people it certainly does not...

 

It does though. If you don't move the right stick, essentially the left stick means nothing. Forward in the left stick is only relative to the direction you are facing, and if you face a certain direction but don't turn the camera, you're blind to where you're going. So it's undoubtedly used a lot by the vast majority of gamers.

 

Also factor in the progression of R1 now becoming a common attack button, and not just for shooters, and the typical old triangle square circle cross aren't getting the same use as they used to.

[Oxigen_Waste]

It does though. If you don't move the right stick, essentially the left stick means nothing. Forward in the left stick is only relative to the direction you are facing, and if you face a certain direction but don't turn the camera, you're blind to where you're going. So it's undoubtedly used a lot by the vast majority of gamers.

 

Also factor in the progression of R1 now becoming a common attack button, and not just for shooters, and the typical old triangle square circle cross aren't getting the same use as they used to.

 

Sure they are, they're still used as the main buttons by the vast majority of games. There's exceptions like Demon's Souls, etc, but they're just the exception that proves the rule.

 

Look, it's really simple, I'm not saying people don't use it, but the positioning reflects how much they are to be used, and for all effects and purposes there's no denying the fact that the right stick is in a secondary position... just look at the evolution of controllers, all buttons and sticks were initially positioned in the position that now corresponds to the face buttons, when in relation to the hand.

 

Then, as the demand for more buttons arose and 3D took over from 2D, controllers started reshapping themselves, and D-Pads, now with a mostly secondary function, were replaced by analogs and relocated to a secondary position on the controller... It's the whole reason the N64 controller was designed the way it was, since the Dpad was still a big thing but now shared dues with an analog, they created a 3-way controller, ensuring you could use both with the proper positioning.

Then, the Dpad became obsolete and was relegated to a secondary position... Just look up the DC controller or GC.

 

The PS controller is the only controller who doesn't follow that rule, and the only reason for that is iconic symbolism of the brand, since it's pretty much studied that the hands rest more comfortably on the face button/Dpad position (let's call position A) then on the dual analog's positions (position B).

 

Also, stop being foolish, of course the face buttons get a lot more use than the right analog in pretty much any game except shooters! There are exceptions, yes, but we're discussing majority here.

[Daft]

My hands are massive so I don't really have a problem with any controller.

 

It took a couple weeks to get used to the Dual Shock but I love everything about it except the absolutely dire triggers. I feel like I'm going to break them every time I press them down.

[Sheikah]

Also, stop being foolish, of course the face buttons get a lot more use than the right analog in pretty much any game except shooters! There are exceptions, yes, but we're discussing majority here.

You're ignoring the truth again. If you don't continuously adjust the right stick the left stick is near useless in the vast majority of 3D games. Camera control dictates direction of movement. That's why it's used more than face buttons.

[Oxigen_Waste]

You're ignoring the truth again. If you don't continuously adjust the right stick the left stick is near useless in the vast majority of 3D games. Camera control dictates direction of movement. That's why it's used more than face buttons.

 

I'm not ignoring anything, I just don't think that's the case, at all!

 

Vast majority? Pretty much all sim and racing games are out, sports games are out, fighters are out... hell, all fixed viewpoint camera games like God of war, Little Big Planet are out.

Basically, any game that isn't in 3rd person is completely out! And even then, there are plenty of games in which the right stick isn't even used for the camera, but instead use the zelda system (one button recenters the camera behind you). I remember playing Wind Waker and only noticing that you could adjust the camera with the C-stick like 3 or so dungeons into the game, and I was a seasoned gamer by then!

 

Again, the issue here is that you seem to assume you and me are the majority... most people don't really tweak the camera that much... Hell, my housemate has been playing uncharted 3, and I recommended he played it with the 360 cross adapter, which has all these on off options and he only noticed he was playing with the right stick by the time he actually had to use a gun!

 

I see you use the sticks as I use them... I pretty much always move forward (up) on the left stick and actually steer my character with the right stick, but that's because I (and you, apparently), preffer to actually enjoy the scenery and surroundings, most people only really use the camera when they get stuck out of view or something. And gamers like us, fluent in the "grammar" of it all are like a 3rd of the user base, worldwide... hell, Nintendo scrapped the idea to include a second stick on the wiimote because the casual gamers are confused by them, to this day.

 

 

Anyway, this is getting completely derailed, because...

 

A - even IF we did use the camera more than the action buttons, manipulating the camera is still a secondary function when compared to the action button. Movement and actions are primary, camera manipulation is secondary. The way you and I play, make the camera kind of like primary, because we incoporate it into movement... but the mass users only really use the camera as a last resort, judging by pretty much everyone I know except me and a few other "hardcore" gamers.

 

B - What the hell does this even have to do with the positioning of things on a controller? And why does it matter, in this context of "which controller is better" since they both have the same design on the right side of things?

[jayseven]

Face buttons are used to actually play a game - iteract with the environment, perform moves generally, y'know, play the game. The right analogue, for all intents and purposes, is easily argued as merely 'tweaking'. Take it to the extremes; if you took away the face buttons but left the stick then most games would be unplayable. Take away the right stick and leave the face buttons and you'll be greatly peeved and feel restricted, but you'd certainly get a lot more done.

[ipaul]

[Sheikah]

I'm not ignoring anything, I just don't think that's the case, at all!

 

Vast majority? Pretty much all sim and racing games are out, sports games are out, fighters are out... hell, all fixed viewpoint camera games like God of war, Little Big Planet are out.

 

These don't fall into the vast majority/ high popularity games these days. Sure, some are popular, but not as popular as most games that are played. Maybe football, but this usually amounts to one title a year compared to several titles that don't use an overhead view.

 

Basically, any game that isn't in 3rd person is completely out!

Or first person. Which is basically most games.

 

 

Again, the issue here is that you seem to assume you and me are the majority... most people don't really tweak the camera that much... Hell, my housemate has been playing uncharted 3, and I recommended he played it with the 360 cross adapter, which has all these on off options and he only noticed he was playing with the right stick by the time he actually had to use a gun!

 

Actually the majority of people (as demonstrated by sales) love games like CoD, battlefield and the like. These games require use of the second stick heavily, so I'd be extremely surprirsed if the majority of gamers weren't familiar with rotating the second stick like your friend.

 

 

Anyway, this is getting completely derailed, because...

 

A - even IF we did use the camera more than the action buttons, manipulating the camera is still a secondary function when compared to the action button. Movement and actions are primary, camera manipulation is secondary. The way you and I play, make the camera kind of like primary, because we incoporate it into movement... but the mass users only really use the camera as a last resort, judging by pretty much everyone I know except me and a few other "hardcore" gamers.

 

Now that doesn't make any sense. Surely if you're using the camera more than you are pressing say square to perform the odd melee or reload, it makes sense to put it in a more prominent position? I don't care what's secondary or primary, just what I use the most.

 

Reason for me debating this - I'm just pointing out that while the 360 pad is being heralded for having the analogue stick in a 'better' place, it actually has one stick used incredibly often in a place that is apparently 'awkward' - so awkward, no one bats an eyelid about stretching the thumb an extra millimieter to reach it!

Edited November 25, 2011 by Sheikah