General Retro Discussion

[Dcubed]

Forget that depressing Embracer TimeSplitters reboot, here's some footage of the REAL TimeSplitters 4!

 

 

An early prototype of the original TimeSplitters 4 for PS3 was only just found a couple of days ago! It's out there now for those with modded PS3s to try out.

And amazingly enough... it actually looks like a TimeSplitters game! A game called TimeSplitters that actually plays like TimeSplitters, what a novel concept!

[Cube]

I know I want to do play GameCube games after N64 games, but I've come across a few interesting non-GameCube games I'm thinking about including due to having a sort of "N64" association.

When looking into Shadow Man and WinBack (both notable N64 games, more so than the other platforms they released on), I discovered both had sequels that I'd never heard of. They're supposedly not great, but I'm curious to see for myself. 

On a similar note, when looking for GameCube prototypes (there aren't many, and some don't work well in emulators), I searched to see if there was one for a game that was a heavy part of early GameCube marketing: Galleon. I thought it had been cancelled, so I was surprised to discover it came out on Xbox, so I'm including that as well, because of how much I rewatched a VHS that included that trailer.

 

Are there any other PS2/Xbox games that feel like they have an association with Nintendo or the N64, but never came out on GameCube - not so much "games that would have been nice on GameCube", but strange omissions (even if they were exclusive deals) - Soulcalibur III perhaps because of the popularity of 2 on the GameCube.

[Hero-of-Time]

59 minutes ago, Cube said:

On a similar note, when looking for GameCube prototypes (there aren't many, and some don't work well in emulators), I searched to see if there was one for a game that was a heavy part of early GameCube marketing: Galleon. I thought it had been cancelled, so I was surprised to discover it came out on Xbox, so I'm including that as well, because of how much I rewatched a VHS that included that trailer.

Galleon was one of those games that was hyped up by the press but didn't live up to expectations. I bought it at launch for my Xbox and found it pretty bland. I don't think I ever finished it.

[Dcubed]

2 hours ago, Cube said:

I know I want to do play GameCube games after N64 games, but I've come across a few interesting non-GameCube games I'm thinking about including due to having a sort of "N64" association.

When looking into Shadow Man and WinBack (both notable N64 games, more so than the other platforms they released on), I discovered both had sequels that I'd never heard of. They're supposedly not great, but I'm curious to see for myself. 

On a similar note, when looking for GameCube prototypes (there aren't many, and some don't work well in emulators), I searched to see if there was one for a game that was a heavy part of early GameCube marketing: Galleon. I thought it had been cancelled, so I was surprised to discover it came out on Xbox, so I'm including that as well, because of how much I rewatched a VHS that included that trailer.

 

Are there any other PS2/Xbox games that feel like they have an association with Nintendo or the N64, but never came out on GameCube - not so much "games that would have been nice on GameCube", but strange omissions (even if they were exclusive deals) - Soulcalibur III perhaps because of the popularity of 2 on the GameCube.

You could include Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero.  Both ended up being Xbox 360 games, but they started out on Gamecube.

Same goes for Grabbed By The Ghoulies, which went from GCN to OG Xbox.  It also helps that it's a genuinely good game; despite the bum rap it gets online.

[Hero-of-Time]

Just now, Dcubed said:

 It also helps that it's a genuinely good game; despite the bum rap it gets online.

So is Kameo. Love that game.

[RedShell]

Interesting vid:

It really is pretty nuts what some games were able to achieve on that hardware.

[Hero-of-Time]

Me watching the above Gameboy video...

 

 

[Hero-of-Time]

 

MetalJesusRocks asks a few others whether or not physical games will die out and if that happens, would they continue to play games?

[Hero-of-Time]

After watching the above video the other night, I sat and watched Not For Resale yesterday evening. It's a video game documentary I watched and spoke about in the early 2020's and it's about retro gaming, collecting and the rise of digital.

I was curious to give it another watch after everything that has happened since. 

There's a section in the documentary about the indie game movement and how digital has been a great thing for them due to breaking down the barriers of not needing a physical copy of the game and being able to publish themselves. Fast forward to today and the bubble has very much burst for a lot of them. There are countless stories from these developers how it's so hard to make a living now, mainly because the barrier for entry is so low that the market is completely flooded. Even more so now than it was back when this was filmed.

You had the owner of Limited Run Games explain why he wanted to start the company. He said words to the effect of he was tired of seeing garbage games on the shelf and being persevered when a lot of digital only games that were genuinely good were being left on digital marketplaces. Again, fast forward to today and his attitude has clearly changed. There are lots of LR releases that are very questionable in terms of their quality.

It was great listening to the owners of the retro stores and hearing their passion for the hobby. Sadly, some of the stores had to close due to the death of the high street and that was back before the pandemic hit. I'd be curious to know how many of them are still running now. Probably not a lot. One owner who was interviewed said when people ever ask him how to go about opening a retro gaming store his answer was always "Don't!"  

I felt sorry for this one guy who brought in a massive Saturn collection that was in mint condition. Had he held on to all of that stuff for an extra year or so (I imagine the documentary was filmed in 2018-2019) he would have made a fortune during the pandemic when retro prices went through the roof. I dunno if I could ever bring myself to sell a collection that size. I suppose it depends on what was going on in my life at the time. The guy was looking to get married and buy a house and so needed the extra cash for those things. 

It was great watching it again but it highlighted just how much things have changed (both retro gaming and general gaming industry) since it's original release, even though not much time has passed since then and now. It did get my retro game collecting itch going again though. I may have to have a browse on eBay in the coming days.

 

[WackerJr]

On 30/03/2024 at 11:31 AM, Cube said:

Are there any other PS2/Xbox games that feel like they have an association with Nintendo or the N64, but never came out on GameCube - not so much "games that would have been nice on GameCube", but strange omissions (even if they were exclusive deals) - Soulcalibur III perhaps because of the popularity of 2 on the GameCube.

You’ve covered the main ones I could think of, with the Rare move along with Shadowman (I didn’t realise about Winback though).

Okami came to Wii.  I suppose Toe Jam & Earl 3 was being developed as a Nintendo/ multi-platform game at one point.  Too Human, as a Silicon Knights game I thought would be released on GameCube, before eventually coming out in XBox 360.  I only recall that one as I read about how they’d lost a lawsuit and had to stop making new copies of the game / destroy existing copies.  I immediately tracked down and bought a copy for cheap (under a fiver) and have still never played it, thinking it would naturally become a collector’s item.  Needless to say, over a decade later and interest never picked up - you can pick it up for a couple of quod on eBay! 😂

[Cube]

Too Human started was originally announced for the PlayStation, but development was paused when they made a deal with Nintendo to make Eternal Darkness on the N64. 

Incidentally, Too Human is still available digitally on the Xbox store

https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/games/store/too-human/BQ216SGGM4M8

It's cheaper than the physical versions, too. Still not sure it's worth the price.

[Hero-of-Time]

I loved Too Human. Played the Hell out of it when it was finally released. It was one of those games that got slated by critics but I really enjoyed. 

[Dcubed]

Ooh! Burnout 3 is another one that really should've come out on the Gamecube.  The GCN got Burnout 2, but never Takedown or Revenge; which is a real shame.

Actually, the loss of Burnout in general is a huge shame in general.  Only EA could take such a simple, successful concept and manage to run it and its developer into the ground like that (a developer that also basically had a monopoly on multiplatform development middlware in the PS2/GCN/Xbox era with the Renderware engine to boot!).

Man, I miss Burnout

Edited April 7 by Dcubed

[Julius]

Headed over to the Birmingham Gaming Market last Saturday and had a pretty good time (albeit a bit of a sardine-like experience). 

Going in, I'd done my research on retro games I wanted to get around to picking up a while ago, but I had a few priority items on my mind for this event:

• Silent Hill 2 - one of the horror games I want to get around to this year, in its original form rather than the remake. 
• Armored Core games - I adored VI, so I'll be picking up most if not all of these as time goes on, I'm sure! 
• Suikoden V - the only mainline Suikoden I don't own in some form or another. 

I also said I wouldn't be picking up any JP copies of games. My main tactic with our early access tickets was to take a quick nose around at high list items on racks/shelves closer to the vendor the first go around and then I'd dig into things truly on subsequent loops. 

So first game picked up was Armored Core: Silent Line, which I picked up on my first go around the place and spotted out of the corner of my eyes from several stalls away  chuffed to pick up an Armored Core game, and this one went for £40, which is roughly how much it goes for elsewhere, too. The same vendor also had a PAL copy of Nine Breaker, too, but I didn't pick this up for two reasons: firstly, from my research it seems pretty universally loathed and rated as the weakest entry in the series, and secondly - and perhaps most importantly - it was going for £140. I was tempted (mainly because I know it'll probably go up in price by the time I get to it in the future), but kept my wits about me; I thought it was gone by our third go around which would've made it easier on me, but it had just moved shelf, and I'm glad I didn't pick it up then either. 

On my second loop I picked up Spider-Man 3 (specifically on PS3) and LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga, two items high on my PS3 wishlist, from the same vendor. While I've seen them around, I was watching out for copies iin nicer condition - and these would do! They were £18 and £5, respectively. 

And then...there just weren't any of my other priority items around. I did spot copies of Armored Core V and Verdict Day from a mile off, too, but unfortunately these were JP copies and so I wouldn't be able to play them (they were also £55 and £65, respectively, so not cheap for shelf-fillers). 

Wanting to make more out of the day and use some more of my budget, I lifted my rule on not picking up any JP titles, and headed back to the same stall (Sore Thumb from up in York) I got Silent Line from with one particular game in mind that I'd spotted on my first pass through...

Chrono Trigger. Yes, I own it on DS physically and on Steam digitally, but I'd spotted a Japanese SNES copy a while back in great condition which had been put aside for someone at my local retro games store, and well, a JP PS1 copy of the game would take up less space and still looks quite nice, so why not? That set me back £25. I then also picked up Hunter x Hunter: Ubawareta Aura Stone (The Stolen Aura Stone) for just £10, a game I'd heard a little about and picked up because, well, Hunter x Hunter  

Which brings me onto my favourite pick-ups of the day, two games I'd actually been thinking of importing before I treated myself to their English ROMs...

Suikogaiden Volume 1: Swordsman of Harmonia AND Suikogaiden Volume 2: Duel at Crystal Valley. These are spin-off titles to the Suikoden series which are actually text and picture-based adventures more along the lines of a visual novel, the first being set during the events of Suikoden II and the second being set following the events of Suikoden II, incorporating save transfers for character cameos or your player character name from II, and the games also introduce you to Nash, who I know turns up in III; notably, these never made it out of Japan. These are part of the 'Konami: The Best' line (even came with the spine sleeves, which I've popped into their respective cases), and though I was thinking of importing standard copies, getting to pick these up at a gaming market when I recognised their font while flicking through boxes felt special, and so I was happy to make an exception here. Definitely my favourite pick-ups of the day, big fan of the box art. These were £15 each. 

Overall, I was a bit let down in terms of finding priority items from my retro games list here - I thought Suikoden V was a bit of a long shot, but I watched footage of last year's event and there were 5+ copies of Silent Hill 2 floating around back at that event, and a good few more Armored Core titles, too. I "only" ended up spending £128 of the £300 budget I'd set myself for the event in the end, and half of that was from JP copies of games I didn't go in expecting to buy, but picked up to salvage the day for me a bit in terms of pick-ups. 

Cool for a first gaming market experience, but I honestly thought my pick-ups at Comic Con a few months ago felt more special (maybe free of the pressure of not being a gaming market), and I do wish they'd have some sort of traffic system in place with arrows on the floor rather than having it be a bit of a free-for all. No doubt I'll be hunting down my priority items in the coming months online, and I'll be looking forward to whatever gaming market I end up at next! 

Edited April 12 by Julius

[Dcubed]

Was just talking with a friend of mine about eBay prices for Gamecube games and it got me interested in looking at the current state of the market...

... it's pretty interesting.  Some games have gone up, like Kirby Air Ride (now averaging around £80-110!) and F-Zero GX (Was previously around £15-20 a couple years back, is now averaging around £25-35), but quite a lot of games have really dropped in value.

Twilight Princess, previously going for around £100-130 for a CIB PAL GCN copy a few years back, can now be gotten for as little as £35!

Skies of Arcadia Legends? Now seems to average about £60-70 (used to be around £70-80)

Mario Parties 4-7? Can be yours for around £15-25 a pop (used to go for around £35-50 on average for each of them a few years back)

Pikmin 2? A reasonable £20 seems to be average (used to go for around £40-45 before).

While the high ticket items haven't really budged much (I'm looking at you Path of Radiance!), you can get a good chunk of the GCN library for pretty cheap these days it seems.  Looks like it's not a bad time to buy up some Gamecube games if you don't already have them

That being said though... why is the PAL version of Mario Superstar Baseball going for around £125-135 on average when the US NTSC version is going for around $15? The PAL version can't be that rare surely!?

Edited April 21 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Mario Superstar Baseball was pretty hard to find back when it was first released. I can't imagine there being many copies printed. It was a late release as well, wasn't it?

[Dcubed]

31 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Mario Superstar Baseball was pretty hard to find back when it was first released. I can't imagine there being many copies printed. It was a late release as well, wasn't it?

It was pretty late, yeah.  November 2005.  But it was still well off being the last game released for the system by Nintendo.  Pokemon XD, Batallion Wars, Mario Party 7, Super Mario Strikers and Odama all released shortly after Superstar Baseball within a 3 month period and none of them are nearly as hard to find (NOE basically cut off all retail support for the GCN after April 1st 2006 and started liquidating their GCN stock with firesales where the console could be bought for cheaper than its actual games here in the UK, with the only game released after that being the GCN version of Twilight Princess; which was sold as mail-order only here in Europe).

I get that baseball isn't really very popular over here, but come on! It can't have had that small of a print-run in Europe surely? It IS still a Mario title after all.  I cannot believe that Odama had a bigger print-run than Mario Superstar Baseball over here, there's just no way...

Edit: Actually... looking over on eBay's completed listings, PAL copies of Odama are actually pretty rare it seems! There's plenty of US NTSC copies for cheap, but PAL copies seem to be hard to come by (though still cheaper than Mario Superstar Baseball).  Perhaps both games did have a comparitively small print run in Europe? Quite surprised about that actually!

Guess that explains why Super Sluggers on Wii didn't get a European release at all.  NOE just had no faith in it.

Edited April 21 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Odama probably didn't but Mario Baseball is more sought after, what with it being a Mario game and all. This will no doubt increase the resale price.

Edited April 21 by Hero-of-Time

[S.C.G]

The price of Nintendo GameCube games is always interesting to me, I try and keep the prices reasonable in the shop, titles such as Mario Kart:Double Dash!! regularly fetch over £30+ if they are boxed, complete and in decent condition, it's the same for Super Smash Bros. Melee, as those are the two most wanted games.

This is why I also try to stock a decent amount of disc only GC games, which I pair up with coloured 8cm disc cases, which I managed to get as some new old stock from early 2000's.

The price of the disc only copy will usually be significantly less, usually up to £10 less or more depending on the game, and you get it in a cool coloured case.

As for The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess it still seems to sell for £75 - £85+ though I haven't had any copies in, so I haven't sold any for that price.

Now, when it comes to Mario Superstar Baseball that is an interesting one, as it does seem to have a low print run, hence the high price of £120+ boxed, though if anyone is genuinely interested, I do have a disc-only copy of it for sale in the shop for £75... which seems reasonable, seeing as you don;t see it very often at all.

If anyone ever wants and retro games or controllers, accessories etc from the shop, let me know, as while I don't technically sell online, I can let you know what's in the shop, accept payment via Bank Transfer, and post the item to you, just in case anyone from here is ever interested in buying anything.

[Dcubed]

Yo! @S.C.G When did the price of Wario World suddenly skyrocket!? I just checked it on eBay for both PAL & NTSC copies and it now seems to be averaging around £60-70.  I remember that being one of the cheapest first party GCN games on the second hand market just a few years back, now it's suddenly worth Wario Cash for some bizzare reason! (Great game BTW, literally just finished a replay yesterday; write-up in the Your Gaming Diary thread is pending!)

Meanwhile, the Zelda Collector's Edition disc is basically worthless now.  A game that used to sell for £100+ easily can now be gotten for like £15-20 on eBay!

It seems like the more expensive games are getting cheaper, while the cheaper games are getting more expensive all of a sudden 

I've already got basically every GCN game I want (save for Cubivore, which aint happening at any sort of reasonable price), but it's really interesting how things have changed recently with game prices.  It's not a bad time to buy some GCN games really if you're in the market for them 

... unless that game you're after is Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance.  That price aint budging it seems, unfortunately.

Edited April 21 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

15 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

 

I've already got basically every GCN game I want (save for Cubivore, which aint happening at any sort of reasonable price)

Crazy thing is I bought it for dirt cheap back when it was first released and I've yet to play it.

17 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

 (Great game BTW, literally just finished a replay yesterday; write-up in the Your Gaming Diary thread is currently pending)

That's weird, I also started playing it last week. I took a photo for when I was finished and ready to talk about it.

I'm halfway through at the moment but clearly you and I are having different experiences with it. I don't think it's enjoyable at all.

[Dcubed]

11 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm halfway through at the moment but clearly you and I are having different experiences with it. I don't think it's enjoyable at all.

I'd say great minds think alike, but clearly not as alike as I'd like

I'll go over this in more detail when I eventually get around to my Wario World writeup, but I think it's a very marmite game where your overall opinion varies a lot on what expectations you have going into the game.  It's both a 3D platformer and an old school beat 'em up in equal measure, so it's naturally quite repetitive, but it's also very inventive with its enemy & level design, with some neat puzzle solving & exploration elements that fit in well with the Wario Land series proper, and I think anyone's opinion on the game will be coloured by their perspective on the beat 'em up genre as a whole; as well as your expectations of games released in the early to mid 2000s in general, and even your views on gaming as a whole.  Because a lot of the complaints you hear online about this game, and many of the reviews of the time, ended up dinging the game for its short running time and its repetitive nature; all of which are natural elements that come with the genre that it's in.

It's very much a game that was perhaps released in a time where people were not kind to both of the genres that this game falls into, but I'll be interested to hear your perspective when you eventually get round to finishing your playthrough and your own writeup 

Edited April 21 by Dcubed

[Cube]

Google Play have done a "history" of Sonic the Hedgehog on Twitter. I think this is what happens when you rely on AI for research. Click through for a good laugh, it gets much worse.

 

 

[Cube]

Someone has created a tool that massively helps people in making native PC ports of N64 games. Some tinkering is still needed from developers and it won't allow changes as easily as decomplication-based ports (the recompiled code isn't readable), but it looks like it's going to be a great tool that will allow people getting N64 games running smoother with higher resolutions, widescreen and other stuff. It also automatically builds a version that doesn't contain any game assets (the user will need to provide those themselves) - the person that developed this software has released a Majora's Mask port.

One advantage is that this is as accurate as the most resource-heavy emulation, but much easier to run. And it's a lot easier to modify than emulated games as well (just not as easy as decomp ports). 

Games with unique code libraries (Factor 5's stuff) still needs work until they would be compatible, but it's a great start in making N64 games easier to play. I'll probably be near the end of playing N64 games by the time a good amount of these come out (I got quite far ahead before I started posting my daily write-ups), but it's still exciting, especially for some of the underrated N64 games (one of them even shown off in the video) to give them a chance to shine. 

Oh, and they're working with raytracing mods. They ported Superman 64 to PC and added raytracing.

 

[Dcubed]

Crazy stuff! Insane that it actually seems to work as well as it does!