[SPOILERS!!] The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[Burny]

That's not the "Zelda is always perfect" crowd however, but rather the "They have ruined my Zelda" crowd. So, exactly the people we were complaining about.

[Grazza]

I'm not quite in that crowd. I'm more in the Zelda WAS always perfect-crowd. No truly good Zelda's been released since Wind Waker. Before then, however, every single one was awesome!

 

I agree with you (apart from the fact I'm including Wind Waker, which I'm not sure you are).

 

I agree with this one to a certain extent. More specifically, the fans that believe that Zelda should be always perfect. If any flaws/dislikes are found, they'll attack it with all their might. Those are the ones that annoy me.

 

No series is perfect, especially considering Nintendo likes to mix up the formula with each iteration of a series, there's bound to be a black sheep in every series. Which one is the black sheep can be open to interpretation, even.

 

Fans that don't realize this are only setting themselves up for disappointment, and are only that more annoying when they find a game that doesn't live up to their expectations.

 

Well, this is a rather complicated issue. At the most negative end, you have Zelda fans who think it should always have realistic graphics, Link should always have a horse and there should always be Gorons, Zoras etc. At the other extreme, you have people who think any criticism is nitpicking.

 

Personally, I'm in the middle. Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Wind Waker were so brilliant, I see no point in finding small faults within them. Same goes for most of the 2D games. I know Nintendo are going to explore different themes and the games are going to be different every time. All I expect is for the game to be good for the machine it's on.

 

Twilight Princess, though, was way off. It was quite fair to expect it to be as good as Wind Waker, albeit with a different style. It was meant to be a GameCube game, so I expected it to have controls and design as good as one. Unfortunately, Nintendo ported it to a machine with an inferior controller, then ported it back again. It's no wonder this is the most controversial Zelda when you had loyal GameCube fans waiting for it for years, and then Nintendo ruined it at the last minute.

 

Most of its faults are evident with a walk round Castle Town. Here you have a town that was once meant to be 3D, and yet is now seen from a forced, overhead perspective. There is no camera control, you can't go into 1st-person perspective and there are enormous loading times between each section, where the screen goes blank for several seconds.

 

Throughout TP, Link does not raise his shield if you press R, and you can't change its angle either. It feels like an itch I can't scratch. It's not fair, it shouldn't have happened and it won't be corrected until Nintendo have a controller as versatile as the GameCube's.

 

I don't know how people can not notice those things, but oh well, I'll have to be content to be in the "Bad Zelda Fans" club.

[Emasher]

Graphically, I think its fine. They just need to add a bit more clutter to the world to make it a bit more believable. It just looks a little bit too empty for a Zelda game.

[Burny]

...Unfortunately, Nintendo ported it to a machine with an inferior controller, then ported it back again.

...

Most of its faults are evident with a walk round Castle Town. Here you have a town that was once meant to be 3D, and yet is now seen from a forced, overhead perspective. There is no camera control, you can't go into 1st-person perspective and there are enormous loading times between each section, where the screen goes blank for several seconds.

 

Throughout TP, Link does not raise his shield if you press R, and you can't change its angle either. It feels like an itch I can't scratch. It's not fair, it shouldn't have happened and it won't be corrected until Nintendo have a controller as versatile as the GameCube's.

 

The controller part is absolutely not true, imo. I never experienced even the slightest problem with it or had the impression, that the controls hindered me in doing what I was supposed to do. Although I think even the few bits we know about Skyward Sword have shown, that large improvements can be done with the Wiimote Setup (quicker item selection etc.). The 3D town part is nitpicking, imo. OoT had a fixed camera in parts of Hyrule, too. That's only a question of style for me. The real issue I had with Twilight Princess was, that from memory, I would say that WW's main town was more lively than half of TP's world. Not to mention MM. Nevertheless, I perceived TP as a great game (even a great Zelda),

 

On the other hand:

...and Wind Waker were so brilliant, I see no point in finding small faults within them.

Here, I would disagree in putting WW in that sentence. The control complaints you have with TP, I have with WW. The inventory and sailing got more on my nerves, than anything I have experienced in a Zelda game to date. I like the idea of sailing, fair enough. But each time I got back to WW, I usually had to travel to some other island across half the map. That meant going into the inventory, exchanging some item for the conductor's baton and some other item for the sail. Play teleportation song, play song for changing the wind direction, set sail, on arrival change halve your inventory back etc. Just to get were you wanted to be, you had to change half your inventory twice and play two songs in addition to the remaining travel by boat. So, that's the incredible versatile GC controller for me. :P

Still, I think WW was an outstanding Zelda despite the complaints I have. If Nintendo only did a "New Play Control" re-release, I would be all over it...

Edited July 23, 2010 by Burny

[Jonnas]

The controller part is absolutely not true, imo. I never experienced even the slightest problem with it or had the impression, that the controls hindered me in doing what I was supposed to do. Although I think even the few bits we know about Skyward Sword have shown, that large improvements can be done with the Wiimote Setup (quicker item selection etc.). The 3D town part is nitpicking, imo. OoT had a fixed camera in parts of Hyrule, too. That's only a question of style for me. The real issue I had with Twilight Princess was, that from memory, I would say that WW's main town was more lively than half of TP's world. Not to mention MM. Nevertheless, I perceived TP as a great game (even a great Zelda),

 

He was talking about the Gamecube controller, though. The Wiimote setup may work fine, but the GC setup, it was clearly a step down from Wind Waker, as they removed the R-Button and one of the selected items, without adding anything.

Though apparently only me and Grazza played the GC version, so we're the only ones to have this particular complaint

 

But my gripe with TP goes beyond the controls (And I'm not talking about the camera angles in the castle town. OoT did the same thing, after all).

[Grazza]

The controller part is absolutely not true, imo. I never experienced even the slightest problem with it or had the impression, that the controls hindered me in doing what I was supposed to do.

 

As Jonnas said, my problem is that the GameCube version (and it shouldn't even have been a "version") didn't control like a GameCube game.

 

The 3D town part is nitpicking, imo. OoT had a fixed camera in parts of Hyrule, too. That's only a question of style for me.

 

I'm sure it's a technical limitation. The town was originally intended to be viewed from a lower angle. However, Nintendo knew Wii owners wouldn't be able to shift the camera, so they decided to make it bland and overhead instead.

 

Here, I would disagree in putting WW in that sentence. The control complaints you have with TP, I have with WW. The inventory and sailing got more on my nerves, than anything I have experienced in a Zelda game to date.

 

See, that's fair enough. There's no right or wrong with whether you should like a game or not. My problem is the objective, technical standards of Wind Waker have not been matched yet.

 

Still, I think WW was an outstanding Zelda despite the complaints I have. If Nintendo only did a "New Play Control" re-release, I would be all over it...

 

The Wii couldn't handle Wind Waker, that's my point.

 

For a new Zelda to match the control set-up achieved with Wind Waker, the controller would need two analogue sticks and L + R triggers. Like many developers said back in 2005, it just doesn't have enough buttons. Thankfully this could be solved with Nintendo's next console if it had rotational input (ie. a gyroscope) in each hand.

 

In the meantime, there is no way Skyward Sword could ever be as controversial as Twilight Princess, because people know the limitations of the Wii and what to expect.

[Ronnie]

Twilight Princess, though, was way off. It was quite fair to expect it to be as good as Wind Waker, albeit with a different style. It was meant to be a GameCube game, so I expected it to have controls and design as good as one. Unfortunately, Nintendo ported it to a machine with an inferior controller, then ported it back again. It's no wonder this is the most controversial Zelda when you had loyal GameCube fans waiting for it for years, and then Nintendo ruined it at the last minute.

 

Most of its faults are evident with a walk round Castle Town. Here you have a town that was once meant to be 3D, and yet is now seen from a forced, overhead perspective. There is no camera control, you can't go into 1st-person perspective and there are enormous loading times between each section, where the screen goes blank for several seconds.

 

Throughout TP, Link does not raise his shield if you press R, and you can't change its angle either. It feels like an itch I can't scratch. It's not fair, it shouldn't have happened and it won't be corrected until Nintendo have a controller as versatile as the GameCube's.

 

On the one hand, you say that OOT, MM and WW are all brilliant that you see no point in finding small faults with them... but then bring up faults with TP's control scheme? Surely the ability to raise your shield at the press of a button should be considered small in the grand scheme of things? Same with having a fixed camera in Castle Town.

 

Personally, my problems with TP were to do with the game storyline itself. After two games with a solitary big town and OOT with two, it wasn't unreasonable to expect TP to have 2 or 3 busy towns. Instead we got Castle town, where there wasn't really much do to and a whilst visually impressive, ghost Kakariko village.

 

The entire first act, ie. the four first temples leading up to the Mirror was beautifully told, acted out and a lot of fun to play. Once you were on the hunt for the mirror shards, storytelling seemed to take a nose dive, and you just ambled around from one place to the next without any real... heart or magic to the proceedings. Something that never occured in OOT, MM and WW.

 

Ganondorf appeared at the last minute without any real backstory and basically on the whole, there didn't actually seem to be much to do in this enormous Hyrule.

 

I absolutely loved TP, it is a great game, but to me, it's the weakest of the 3D Zeldas by a fair amount. The entire second act felt rushed.

 

Graphically, I think its fine. They just need to add a bit more clutter to the world to make it a bit more believable. It just looks a little bit too empty for a Zelda game.

 

Agreed.

[Dante]

GoNintendo - Nintendo Power Info

 

They confirm Zelda will play a role in the game.

Won't comment on Ganon being in it.

Beetle may be used for racing.

No Voice acting.

Miyamoto hasn't "upended the tea table... yet".

[Goron_3]

No Voice acting.........

 

Oh dear. Not that I want it for Link, but I definately expected it for NPC's.

[Ronnie]

The reviewers will be bashing a lack of voice acting but personally I'd be happy either way.

 

Glad to hear Zelda is in it.

 

I still can't believe how safe this Zelda seems. Everything was pointing to a totally different, revolutionary, fresh start for the Zelda series, and we have basically TP with a different style and motion controls. It feels like after all the hype, Miyamoto decided against radically changing the formula. As far as we know so far anyway...

[Goron_3]

The reviewers will be bashing a lack of voice acting but personally I'd be happy either way.

 

Glad to hear Zelda is in it.

 

I still can't believe how safe this Zelda seems. Everything was pointing to a totally different, revolutionary, fresh start for the Zelda series, and we have basically TP with a different style and motion controls. It feels like after all the hype, Miyamoto decided against radically changing the formula. As far as we know so far anyway...

 

Well apart from motion control the Wii and GC are very similar in tech, I wouldn't expect a radical leap or change until maybe the next Nintendo hardware comes through. They're also a jap dev, I don't see them taking massive leaps forward like we see from Western guys, it hasnt been that way for a while.

[Ronnie]

It has nothing to do with tech. You can fundamentally change the Zelda formula regardless of processing power. All the build up and hype from interviews with Miyamoto, Aunoma etc all pointed to the fact that this game was going to be very different to the usual Zelda games. What we were presented with seems very safe.

[Emasher]

I don't think they've really said enough about how the game will play out for us to rule out major changes quite yet. Although, I'm not expecting them.

[killer kirby]

No Voice acting.........

 

Oh dear. Not that I want it for Link, but I definately expected it for NPC's.

 

Screw that, if Nintendo put voice acting in the game, it should be clever, and have all characters speak in gibberish, seriously what they did with midna and her voice was perhaps one the greatest things to happen, having characters speaking in a gibberish language that we don't understand will...well, to me, bring more life to the world then if you just add boring english voice actors.

[Burny]

...just add boring english voice actors.

 

Or even worse: bad English voice acting! :P

 

The Wii couldn't handle Wind Waker, that's my point.

Yes, it could. There is nothing in WW, that cannot be mapped to the Wiimote + Nunchuck setup, aside from multiple "quickbuttons" for items. And that can be replaced with a ring menu like in Skyward Sword, which I would even consider a vast improvement. Camera controls have already been done with the Dpad in Okami. It may not be perfect, but it works.

[Eddage]

On the one hand, you say that OOT, MM and WW are all brilliant that you see no point in finding small faults with them... but then bring up faults with TP's control scheme? Surely the ability to raise your shield at the press of a button should be considered small in the grand scheme of things? Same with having a fixed camera in Castle Town.

 

Personally, my problems with TP were to do with the game storyline itself. After two games with a solitary big town and OOT with two, it wasn't unreasonable to expect TP to have 2 or 3 busy towns. Instead we got Castle town, where there wasn't really much do to and a whilst visually impressive, ghost Kakariko village.

 

The entire first act, ie. the four first temples leading up to the Mirror was beautifully told, acted out and a lot of fun to play. Once you were on the hunt for the mirror shards, storytelling seemed to take a nose dive, and you just ambled around from one place to the next without any real... heart or magic to the proceedings. Something that never occured in OOT, MM and WW.

 

Ganondorf appeared at the last minute without any real backstory and basically on the whole, there didn't actually seem to be much to do in this enormous Hyrule.

 

I absolutely loved TP, it is a great game, but to me, it's the weakest of the 3D Zeldas by a fair amount. The entire second act felt rushed.

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

The triforce shard hunt in Wind Waker was a hell of a lot worse than anything in Twilight Princess. It actually stopped me playing the game.

[Shorty]

Looking back on it now, Twilight Princess feels like a game that should've come out before Wind Waker. It was a (small) step backwards for the series. IMO.

[Fused King]

Screw that, if Nintendo put voice acting in the game, it should be clever, and have all characters speak in gibberish, seriously what they did with midna and her voice was perhaps one the greatest things to happen, having characters speaking in a gibberish language that we don't understand will...well, to me, bring more life to the world then if you just add boring english voice actors.

 

Again, this is one of the charms of Little King's Story:kiss:

[Jonnas]

Again, this is one of the charms of Little King's Story:kiss:

 

I don't know about LKS (I want to play it, seriously. One day...), but De Blob did the same thing. They speak in an imaginary language with occasional English words (basically, the words that would've stayed in English in any language) and it's awesome.

[Grazza]

On the one hand, you say that OOT, MM and WW are all brilliant that you see no point in finding small faults with them... but then bring up faults with TP's control scheme? Surely the ability to raise your shield at the press of a button should be considered small in the grand scheme of things? Same with having a fixed camera in Castle Town.

 

Honestly, I can see why you say that, but I don't really care about story or other things that might be considered "big". Nintendo will try different themes and stories, and sometimes it'll be better than others. I'm happy to go with the flow. What I complain about totally seems like nitpicking, but nitpicking is finding faults just for the sake of it, whereas I only complain about things that genuinely ruined my enjoyment.

 

The feel of the controls affected the entire game for me. In previous games, part of the joy was how much control I had over Link, running around, swinging the C-stick to get whatever camera angle I wanted; going into 1st-person whenever I wanted to get a better view; stopping, pulling R and looking round with my shield. To take that flexibility and freedom away greatly lessened it for me.

 

And quite frankly, there's a great deal of principle involved - it was meant to be a GameCube game, and the only reason it shouldn't have felt like one was if the developers genuinely wanted to try something new, regardless of the Wii. I know we both loved Spirit Tracks, Ronnie, and I didn't complain about any of that stuff because I don't expect it on the DS, but I did on the GameCube.

[Retro_Link]

Beetle may be used for racing.

SWEET!!...

 

[Pookiablo]

Again, this is one of the charms of Little King's Story:kiss:

 

At least you're not banging on about Paper Mario for a change :P

 

I have to actually change my view on voice acting. I'm actually against it in Zelda games now - I really do think it wouldn't do the series any good. Unless they put it in the main cutscenes or something but that might be confusing.

[Dante]

Quote from Nintendo Power:

 

“One of the reasons we’ve chosen the art style we have with Skyward Sword is that it is a better vehicle to showcase the exaggerated characteristics of some of the characters. Not only of the enemy characters, but as a representation of the sword spirit itself. Because of the way we have put the game together you have to focus on how the enemy is carrying their weapon, and there are a couple of different ways you can go about that. One, you can be super-realistic, and the other, not so realistic. We thought that because we want to highlight the swordfighting combat, we have to exaggerate the features. We thought that the art style we chose was best-suited to do that. You have to match the art style to how the game plays, and we thought this worked best. We matched the artwork so that we can highlight the over-exaggeration in the gameplay.”

[david.dakota]

Screw that, if Nintendo put voice acting in the game, it should be clever, and have all characters speak in gibberish, seriously what they did with midna and her voice was perhaps one the greatest things to happen, having characters speaking in a gibberish language that we don't understand will...well, to me, bring more life to the world then if you just add boring english voice actors.

 

Completely disagree. It never used to bother me in all honesty, but as my daughter become more engaged with games (she loves Galaxy 2); its clear her enjoyment of it is hindered due to the choice of text over voice acting - while Daddy is there to help, she clearly gets frustrated that she can't do it herself.

 

Kind of at odds with Nintendo's family gaming mantra really. I think its laziness and cost cutting, wrapped up in an artistic bow.

[Nolan]

When I was that young, not comprehending text didn't stop me from enjoying so many games of the SNES era. From Zelda to Final Fantasy to Castlevania I enjoyed them despite my ignorance. Mind you, it's a lot harder to play without knowing a whole lot but I could still get to end game.