Does anyone else think this generation is poor?

[Shino]

What!?!!

 

 

Bad example to use Dragon Quest series as attraction of big games, DQh is known to go onto the hardware that has the most sales of the gen ie Snes, PS1, PS2, DS and Wii.

 

The reason this gen is poor Caris is because the consoles started on many mistakes and the gaming market is now forced on DLC, FPS, Action Horror,peripherals, graphics > gameplay, achievement/trophys, non local multi player,realism,3D, SKUs and mandatory installs.

 

Dear god, it happened.

[Dante]

Dear god, it happened.

 

What has happened?

 

Yasuhiro Wada sums this gen up:

You recently wrote on Marvelous’ blog a message to Japanese gamers. What was it about?

 

Simply put, I think the population of gamers in Japan is shrinking fast. Every year, we see the number of active core gamers decreasing. I think this is due to the industry. Publishers, developers and creators alike are not trying hard enough to bring original creations on the market. I have the feeling that those gamers are feeling bored, that they have had enough. At Marvelous, it is my ambition to make new and original games that are not only appealing to those gamers. I wanted those users to look at our games. The objective was by answering the needs of those gamers so they would find video games fun again. Doing so, we would see the population of gamers growing again.

 

Strong IP, series or popular characters are the main focus today. They are seen as secured elements in a very risky environment. Publishers and developers have used this for years, leaving little place for originality and new contents. I think this is why gamers are leaving video games. I believe that variety is the only way to bring more people into gaming.

[Deathjam]

What has happened?

 

Yasuhiro Wada sums this gen up:

 

An intelligent informed post that is also concise, has no sourcing, and especially, comes from yourself Dante.

 

Anyways, I may not play games as much as I used to, but damn have I been satisfied, for the most part, this gen. There are a few things missing, but I expect those to be filled out and accomplished over time, something that this gen seems to have in abundance i.e. the expected life time of these consoles.

[Cube]

No variation? It may be due to how many games I could afford, but for me this is by far the most varied generation of games so far.

[killer kirby]

Caris, I agree 100%. I spend all my gaming time playing GameCube, PS2 and DS, and even with the latter, I feel the sub-N64 graphics seriously harm the games!

Huh? but why say that? I mean the game is still playable and as fun as it would be if the graphics were worst or better.

 

As for the Wii, I'm not trying to annoy anyone, but I honestly don't think Nintendo knows what it's doing with its more traditional games.

*Looks at Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Another Code, Punch Out, Zelda*

Hmm, I don't know, they are much more uniuque now then what they were back in the days, it still feels fresh to me (Not as much as what the SNES/N64 era did for me but it's much fresher compared to the Gamecube)

 

Look at how long it's taking them to make Zelda, and the apparent indecision of whether MotionPlus will benefit it at all.

I thought you would be used to waiting for a new Zelda games (Heck look at the gap between Zelda ALttP and Zelda OOT)

 

The first cycle seemed based on Wii Sports and Wii Fit; the second looks to be based on Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus. Yes, they have also produced Mario, Metroid and others, but how does the hardware benefit those?

A lot, Metroid feels even smoother then it did when using the Gamecube controller, and mario was a fun game where it was not heavily using the Wii controller, but would not work as well as it would have if it was on the normal controller

 

Where is the grand vision to take these series forward? The Wii is entirely built to suit the "blue ocean" games. They don't care how much it ruins the others.

Hahahaha, I had a good laugh at this one, if Nintendo didn't care, those traditional games would be out now, all rushed all crap...kind of like how 3rd party games are with the Wii at the moment (Not some of them though, but most of them)

 

Worst of all, the Wii is keeping my favourite series, such as Zelda and Dragon Quest, as last-gen games, and potentially ruining them with motion control.

Holy shit, Zelda and Dragon Quest are ruined because of waggle, even though the main game for both of them in the series has yet to be even shown. Remember what it was like with Dragon Quest IX and Zelda PH on the DS?

People thought it would fail because of the 'Oh noez touch screen going to ruin everything I loved about the series' and now have been highly praised both of them have been. What makes the Wii any different (Especially when there has been NOTHING to be shown of those 2 games yet)

 

And if Dragon Quest VII on the PS1 taught me anything, Yuji Horii doesn't think a great deal about graphics, if he did, the game would have been 5 disks, all full of FMV's and have made the characters all 3D rather then the characters being 2D (The game came out like in 2001 in Japan as well)

 

To end on a positive note, the PS3 and Xbox 360 are both fantastic pieces of hardware and once they have "settled down" (price cut and slim version for the PS3 and the "Valhalla" or better for the Xbox 360) and attracted the big games like Dragon Quest back, I can see this generation eventually becoming as good as the last.

 

But a console should have settled down ages ago, it should have been when it was released. I am getting sick of people who now say 'Oh just wait until this and this is out, only then will everything start' It started when the 360 came out, there have been RPG's on the 360, there have been many games now going onto the PS3 (May I add that I find every exclusive game boring on the PS3 bah Valkyrie Chronicle and Demon Soul)

[Daft]

(May I add that I find every exclusive game boring on the PS3 bah Valkyrie Chronicle and Demon Soul)

 

I'm just going to assume that sweeping statement is a joke.

[Caris]

What has happened?

 

Yasuhiro Wada sums this gen up:

 

A normal post by you that didn't have any souces or copy and paste material. I was shocked when I read it too then you spoilt it by your second post.

[Dyson]

A normal post by you that didn't have any souces or copy and paste material. I was shocked when I read it too then you spoilt it by your second post.

 

If I could quote a post and just leave it here I would. I thought exactly the same.

[Sheikah]

I understand it when people say that playing those revolutionary games for the first time is a great experience, but you're comparing those games which were the cream of the crop in their hay-day with the large quantity of rubbish software out there currently on shelves when you should be comparing them with the big hitters from this gen.

 

So what should we compare with? Gears of War? Still an FPS with a concept like many before it. Metal Gear Solid 4? Praised for its cinematics and complex story, but made a transition further from stealth game to more of a third person action adventure shooter. Resistance 2/Killzone 2? Not like the core gameplay there has never been done before. Metroid Prime 3? See MP1 and 2. Most games that are excellent today still aren't groundbreaking in terms of the core gameplay they offer, bar the odd title like Wii Sports.

 

 

You can't have much experience with FPS, and even if you are a believer in the genre coming to a standstill (OK its getting a bit worn as years come and go) because of Perfect Dark, well... Laughable really.

 

Ok, this made you lose any credibility you (possibly) had. I'm fairly sure you haven't played this game. If you had, you wouldn't be saying that.

[KKOB]

*bashes head against a wall*

 

There's no point in arguing it's just a matter of taste and opinion. Many of the posters here seem to be wearing rose-tinted glasses, lamenting the days when Nintendo were making very few, but good games. Along the excitement of a new dimension to explore and experiment with. There hasn't been a paradigm shift yet, except what is now beginning in terms of the control method being used. That's the next step which is equatable to the N64 and PSone generation.

 

But still, it'll be a few more years before we see the real games that will make these motion sensing controls their home and offer perhaps a chance to have that same excitement which was around in the 90s.

 

One can say that this gen doesn't compare to previous generations, but it doesn't really get anyone anywhere. The quality of games has been improving since the stumbling many developers went through following the 3D jump but i don't think that that is the argument people are talking about here. If it was, it'd be bloody obvious that this generation has had more quality games than previous generations at the same point in the life cycle.

 

No the argument here seems to be just about rhetoric.

 

Play games, the old games are there for you to play, the new games are being offered to you. Play what you wish, just don't needlessly bitch about things not being as they used to. There are real pioneers still experimenting, although you seem to miss them as you appear to have had your heads buried inside old games magazines, getting high off the cartridge dust.

[Dyson]

No the argument here seems to be just about rhetoric.

 

Play games, the old games are there for you to play, the new games are being offered to you. Play what you wish, just don't needlessly bitch about things not being as they used to. There are real pioneers still experimenting, although you seem to miss them as you appear to have had your heads buried inside old games magazines, getting high off the cartridge dust.

 

*would 'Thank' post but apparantly has none remaining*

[CoolFunkMan]

I really do think it's a matter of taste and personal opinion on which generation you like the best, but here's my two pence...

 

In my opnion, I don't see this as a bad generation, infact it's been pretty damn' good so far! It's just took a while to get off the ground really, and I think that things are only just getting into full swing. There's been plenty of dissapointments, but there's been plenty of decent ideas and evolutions, such as DLC/digital distribution paving the way for new ideas, online gaming growing on consoles with social networking, HD gaming, etc. I think the Wii is a tad over-rated though, I now see the control scheme a tad too gimmicky, so that's killed part of this generation for me. Plus there is the game drought this autumn/christmas time, as a ton of games that were meant to be out by then are slipping to next year. 360 and PS3 have a lot to offer though. There's been some brilliant games out, too many for me to list here, but they're there and there's deffinitely plenty more to come.

[Hero-of-Time]

This gen brought about achievements/trophies so im a happy man

[Goafer]

This generation has had it's innovative games as well. Mirrors Edge, Portal, Braid, LBP, Flower, Patapon.

 

If you compare the first proper 3D generation with the current one, of course you're going to be dissapointed in terms of new game innovations. Although even then, the only major innovation I see with that generation is the transition into 3D. Bit of a 1 trick pony really.

[Sheikah]

This generation has had it's innovative games as well. Mirrors Edge, Portal, Braid, LBP, Flower, Patapon.

 

If you compare the first proper 3D generation with the current one, of course you're going to be dissapointed in terms of new game innovations. Although even then, the only major innovation I see with that generation is the transition into 3D. Bit of a 1 trick pony really.

 

Every single game that was then 3D had to come up with new 3D gameplay. Indeed, most games released today are in 3D. It's no surprise that this caused more types of gameplay we'd never experienced before. The jump to 3D was a huge step; 2D and 3D Mario games are extremely different. The same can be said for side scrolling shooters and FPS games. One trick pony? Pfft. More like the platinum-plated magical unicorn that broke open the lid of a whole new era.

[dwarf]

So what should we compare with? Gears of War? Still an FPS with a concept like many before it. Metal Gear Solid 4? Praised for its cinematics and complex story, but made a transition further from stealth game to more of a third person action adventure shooter. Resistance 2/Killzone 2? Not like the core gameplay there has never been done before. Metroid Prime 3? See MP1 and 2. Most games that are excellent today still aren't groundbreaking in terms of the core gameplay they offer, bar the odd title like Wii Sports.

 

 

 

 

Ok, this made you lose any credibility you (possibly) had. I'm fairly sure you haven't played this game. If you had, you wouldn't be saying that.

Well first off Resistance and Killzone weren't ever going to be groundbreaking, they aren't regarded as the best games over the last few years. Fallout 3 is groundbreaking, sure it's an FPS/3rd Person job but there hasn't been anything quite like it.

Little Big Planet is a massive innovation, creating/sharing/playing levels is very new.

 

You also have the Wii sports, Flower & games that Goafer posted.

 

The thing is you're quick to dumb down any sequel but some of them offer great experiences that you can't get from blocky N64 games, and graphics may be a greater advancement than you'd like to think.

 

 

As for the Perfect Dark quip, I stand by it. Saying a genre has taken a stand-still because of 1 game that was released ages ago that misses so many features of modern day games is ridiculous. I don't sit there playing Resistance 2 online with 59 players thinking 'why am I doing this? PD was too good that this isn't enjoyable'.

[Goafer]

Every single game that was then 3D had to come up with new 3D gameplay. Indeed, most games released today are in 3D. It's no surprise that this caused more types of gameplay we'd never experienced before. The jump to 3D was a huge step; 2D and 3D Mario games are extremely different. The same can be said for side scrolling shooters and FPS games. One trick pony? Pfft. More like the platinum-plated magical unicorn that broke open the lid of a whole new era.

 

Oh yeah, it was a massive step. But it's still only 1 step. I don't consider it massively innovative either, just the next logical step. Plus 3D shooters weren't created in that era, at least not the mechanics (Wolfenstein 3D etc).

 

I consider todays innovations to be much more creative (see aforementioned games), although I'll admit most companies to seem to be following the tried and tested route of FPS/Wii shovelware. I think this generation is worse for overall quality of games due to a tonne of generic crap (although the PS1 was guilty of this too), but better for the rare gems.

Edited July 29, 2009 by Goafer

[Sheikah]

Well first off Resistance and Killzone weren't ever going to be groundbreaking, they aren't regarded as the best games over the last few years. Fallout 3 is groundbreaking, sure it's an FPS/3rd Person job but there hasn't been anything quite like it.

 

Ha - clearly the final nail in the coffin in regards to people taking you seriously? In case you weren't aware, Fallout 3 (as god damn awesome as it is, and however much I love the game) was made using the Oblivion engine; it's essentially a lot like Oblivion (sneaking, travelling; fast travel/exploration, lockpicking, pickpocketing, looting houses, dungeoneering, wait/sleep commands, quest marking; map showing you exactly where to go etc.) but with a completely different setting and a focus on gun/projectile combat. Even then, it's debatable as to how new an Oblivion-type game is. I will give it that Oblivion gave a huge sense of immersion and surpassed itself on the visual front, however.

[dwarf]

OK I had forgotten that Oblivion preceeded it, it's not quite as good a game, but take it that Fallout was released without Oblivion existing, it is quite groundbreaking. Having a world with such scale for you to explore without loadtimes (buildings being the exception) with all the characters and perk systems and general abundance of different items, it is groundbreaking.

 

Stop trying to look for my demise in this argument and let me answer your questions.

[Sheikah]

but take it that Fallout was released without Oblivion existing, it is quite groundbreaking

 

Um, yeah, that's a weird thing to say. "Presume that it never really happened, and I have a very valid point."

 

Take it that no platformer game existed before Super Mario Sunshine. Super Mario Sunshine was a pretty groundbreaking game!

[dwarf]

That's exactly what I meant. No, they are pretty similar games and Fallout is the second major current gen game Bethesda released, so it's not quite the time difference between the titles you posted.

 

I was going to talk about Oblivion and how that innovates but I can't comment on it too much seeing as I haven't completed it (played it for a few hours at a friends house and it didn't seem too polished). I played Fallout first and it seemed very new, but maybe I should be thanking Oblivion instead.

 

Either way you look at it, they are innovative and push boundaries somewhat.

[Daft]

I think downloadable games/updates/(user)content/ have been brilliant this generation. This generation would be a lot worse off without it.

 

Flower, maybe my favourite game this generation, only really has a chance as a download.

 

Games like Burnout Paradise have literally been transformed. The PS3 and the 360 have had feature after feature added. Compare the PS3 to what it was a year and a half ago and the change is phenomenal.

 

Also, DLC like the recent Wipeout Fury has added so much replay.

 

If you think this generation is dissapointing, you're probably doing something wrong.

[KKOB]

Picking up on what Daft said, the biggest change is DLC this generation, along with this being the first generation of consoles really designed for being plugged into the internet 24/7.

 

An interesting point is how some games are now becoming platforms via use of DLC - Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Burnout Paradise, LBP etc. I think these two things are what makes this generation different from all others.

 

The last generation took a few tentative steps towards the online fluency of consoles, and other than that was merely a polygon bump. This generation we're seeing the realisation of the promise of online gaming beyond merely online multiplayer. That's the jump that 360 and PS3 has taken.

 

I think it's ridiculous to try and compare Goldeneye to say Battlefield 1943 or Killzone 2. What people expect from games since then has changed massively. And Resistance 2's co-op multiplayer is an indication of people still trying to refresh the genre and take it in new directions. As was my point before, the innovation is there, you just need to look.

[Sheikah]

I think it's ridiculous to try and compare Goldeneye to say Battlefield 1943 or Killzone 2. What people expect from games since then has changed massively. And Resistance 2's co-op multiplayer is an indication of people still trying to refresh the genre and take it in new directions. As was my point before, the innovation is there, you just need to look.

 

You are entirely missing the point. It's not about trying to compare the two games side by side; it's that FPS games have continuously repeated the same tasks, with similar layouts and often very similar weapon rosters. Therefore, by the Pokemon example, the first one you play (that introduces many of the mechanics that subsequent games adopt) is the one that's fresh, while all others go over old ground. No matter how great the additions and renovation, the core gameplay is tired. It'll never give you that buzz, unless you are capable of forgetting that you've been playing basically the same sort of game 10 times over.

 

DLC is a way for game developers to charge more money than they should for small things. LittleBigPlanet release T-shirts for over a quid (the launch week T-shirt was over £4 IIRC), that must have taken all of 5 minutes to design. It's also pretty fucking stupid at times; GTAIV content arrived at a time when many people couldn't care less about the game anymore.

 

But yeah, I can see the argument 'if you don't want to buy it you don't have to!' - which is why I usually don't, but it's not like I can't express my opinion about it.

 

Downloadable full games are a good way of getting hold of some games that have become rare, or are no longer produced. But in all fairness, Sony (for example) haven't exactly been playing fair. They charge £7.99 for FFVII on the PSN store, which many of you think is a cracking deal. It would cost more to buy the discs. But that doesn't change the fact that this game is a good markup on their usual PS1 game price. They're extorting the fact that people love the game.

 

So yeah...in some ways, the stores are great. Demos are a good example. And DLC has good potential...but it's a service offered by greedy companies, who will often overcharge for things.

[Daft]

There only seven basic plots in literature. By your logic, why read any new books?