Iun Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 He shouldn't have to put up with 'shitty kids' to begin with. As for the actual news article, I wasn't there, I don't know either, so I'm not picking a side. This is worrying, I agree with you more and more as the days go by... I'm never going to open mouuth kiss Arsene Wenger though, okay? I am a "professional" and I see every day kids who would really benefit being smacked around the chops afew times: it would wake them up to the reality that their actions have consequences. Their parents make no contact with teachers unless it is to complain about them, and it's pretty obvious that they get whatever they like at home. There's a lot of things to blame: principally the parents in these cases. A lot of parents have their children because of a "me too" attitude or as a function of biological urges. They then decide to carry on their career as normal as if nothing has changed. When they come home at night, it's far easier in the short terms to give in than discipline. Discipline doesn't mean violence, it doesn't always mean punishment, but it does mean showing a link between action and consequence. At times, I really want to lose it with the little kid who's just smacked me in the nuts because I used a word he's never heard of before - "no". I know I won't, and yet there's always that little part of me that says "if it teaches the little piece of jizz that he can't act like this and he becomes a better person, it might just be worth losing my job over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Actually, looking back, I take back what I said in my first post in this thread. I was particularly frustrated with a few chavs that day and said a few things I probably shouldn't have. That said, none of us know what happened. We've all been frustrated with the social group that has been repeatedly mentioned in this thread, and I think we can all see why it would have been so easy for the teacher to snap if what is being assumed is true. There's no way, not matter what the kid did he deserved to be attacked (unless he attacked the teacher first), but I don't think any of us really believe the kid wasn't doing something bad enough that he wasn't entirely innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 This is worrying, I agree with you more and more as the days go by... I'm never going to open mouuth kiss Arsene Wenger though, okay? I am a "professional" and I see every day kids who would really benefit being smacked around the chops afew times: it would wake them up to the reality that their actions have consequences. Their parents make no contact with teachers unless it is to complain about them, and it's pretty obvious that they get whatever they like at home. There's a lot of things to blame: principally the parents in these cases. A lot of parents have their children because of a "me too" attitude or as a function of biological urges. They then decide to carry on their career as normal as if nothing has changed. When they come home at night, it's far easier in the short terms to give in than discipline. Discipline doesn't mean violence, it doesn't always mean punishment, but it does mean showing a link between action and consequence. At times, I really want to lose it with the little kid who's just smacked me in the nuts because I used a word he's never heard of before - "no". I know I won't, and yet there's always that little part of me that says "if it teaches the little piece of jizz that he can't act like this and he becomes a better person, it might just be worth losing my job over". This. While I still maintain the viewpoint that smacking a kid is wrong, I definitely believe in discipline and teachings of action and consequence. It's a huge problem these days. And while the teacher naturally overreacted, I think it's safe to say the kid wasn't exactly an angel. Though we don't really know anything more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 This. While I still maintain the viewpoint that smacking a kid is wrong, I definitely believe in discipline and teachings of action and consequence. It's a huge problem these days. And while the teacher naturally overreacted, I think it's safe to say the kid wasn't exactly an angel. Though we don't really know anything more than that. I agree with this but I do think that some of the kids deserve a slap. The parents do nothing but spoil them rotten. I used to know this little shit who lived round by where I do and he was just a living nightmare. He's 18 now and he practically created the definition of chav he's that bad. He gets everything he could ever want and all he ever does is hang round bus stops scaring people, he threatens them, he threw bricks in this old woman's house for no reason at all....people like this should have had a slap when they were younger. He has moved now but I don't think he'll ever change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Bring back the cane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluey Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 we need more kick-ass teachers. every time an interviewer asks who inspired me to become a teacher i have to make up some shpeel about a youth-worker i used to know... why havent more of these people seen GTO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I agree with this but I do think that some of the kids deserve a slap. The parents do nothing but spoil them rotten. I used to know this little shit who lived round by where I do and he was just a living nightmare. He's 18 now and he practically created the definition of chav he's that bad. He gets everything he could ever want and all he ever does is hang round bus stops scaring people, he threatens them, he threw bricks in this old woman's house for no reason at all....people like this should have had a slap when they were younger. He has moved now but I don't think he'll ever change. Well, I personally believe that if brought up properly with discipline from the beginning, slapping won't be necessary. That being said, people like these who have already had a discipline-less upbringing might just react to a slap. I don't like it, but it might be the way to go. Chavs are, of course, always in need of a good ass-whooping. With a bat. Yes, I think I'm going to be a great teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipaul Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Well chav stands for council housed and violent. Now I'm not against people who live in council house (I come from a poor(ish) family myself with some of my relatives living in council houses) but, as war said, a chav is somebody who is violent, aggressive etc. It's got nothing to do with what they wear, many of them just wear similar things, and thus some people get wrongly branded as a chav. Also I don't get how I came across as snobby. Conservatism I can see. Prejudice I can understand although I did say that I was making assumptions and my opinion would change if they were incorrect. But I don't see any snobbery. Well that's your definition, I have a different one. I just take it as a form of snobbery to mark all chavs with the same 'violent, drunken idiots' badge. But then if that's you define a chav it doesn't really stick. Oh and nice to see Emasher took back what he said before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj metroid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 this is ridiculous.. Nobody knows enough to judge this.. We don't know how this happened.. If the kid somehow tried to take the teachers life then this is the only occassion where I can be on the teachers side.. you can't make excuses for the teacher like it pushed him over the edge.. You can't say generalise people.. Some people are way out of touch with what you call the chavs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twozzok Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 I just take it as a form of snobbery to mark all chavs with the same 'violent, drunken idiots' badge. But then if that's you define a chav it doesn't really stick. If the definition of a chav is that they're violent and have cuntish attitudes, then how can it be snobbery to assume all chavs are violent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipaul Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 If the definition of a chav is that they're violent and have cuntish attitudes, then how can it be snobbery to assume all chavs are violent? That's what I was saying you Twozzock - it doesn't stick i.e if that's how you define them then you are no longer demonstrating snobbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 this is ridiculous.. Nobody knows enough to judge this.. We don't know how this happened.. If the kid somehow tried to take the teachers life then this is the only occassion where I can be on the teachers side.. you can't make excuses for the teacher like it pushed him over the edge.. You can't say generalise people.. Some people are way out of touch with what you call the chavs. You can if you consider that the kid was probably a chav. Only silly people believe that chavs being alive are better than chavs being dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 My comment about chavs was, if people didn't get it, naturally a joke. I don't believe violence or killing to be the best solution to any problem (though I sometimes feel the urge to punch someone). When I say chavs, I mean people who act like they're better and cooler than everyone else and therefore think they have the right to look down on others, mock others, bully others and generally be mean and nasty to others. And those I don't like, though I don't believe beating them would solve any problems (even though it'd feel nice ). We have to look at the way they've been brought up (or haven't been brought up), as that's what has made them what they are today. That's where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 When I say chavs, I mean people who act like they're better and cooler than everyone else and therefore think they have the right to look down on others, mock others, bully others and generally be mean and nasty to others. lol - that's a strange definition of chav. Chavs are generally at the bottom of the social hierarchy, so unless they're looking down on maggots, I don't see how that's possible. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 lol - that's a strange definition of chav. Chavs are generally at the bottom of the social hierarchy, so unless they're looking down on maggots, I don't see how that's possible. :p While that is true, they still act like they're better than others. At least in my experience of what I believe to be the chav stereotype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj metroid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 You can if you consider that the kid was probably a chav. Only silly people believe that chavs being alive are better than chavs being dead. Why do i get the feeling you're missing the point.. most chavs are stupid in their youth but most grow up to be decent enough people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Why do i get the feeling you're missing the point.. most chavs are stupid in their youth but most grow up to be decent enough people.. Most of them grow up to be worthless and scrounge off the government. Chavs fail at school in their youth, and are too lay to ever make anything of themselves. And yes, there are hundreds of thousands of people just like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj metroid Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Most of them grow up to be worthless and scrounge off the government. Chavs fail at school in their youth, and are too lay to ever make anything of themselves. And yes, there are hundreds of thousands of people just like this. The real chavs don't have a chance with the areas they grow in... I know in the city i live.. there are some no go areas for most people... Kids growing up on these areas see violence everywhere. There is nobody to teach them otherwise.. I do HATE the wannabes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The real chavs don't have a chance with the areas they grow in... I know in the city i live.. there are some no go areas for most people... Kids growing up on these areas see violence everywhere. There is nobody to teach them otherwise.. I do HATE the wannabes though. I agree with this so much. You do get some who rebel or go against the grain. But, when you live in an area where your own family are violent, and everyone around you shows little respect for each other, it's no wonder that so many kids feel agree with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 The real chavs don't have a chance with the areas they grow in... I know in the city i live.. there are some no go areas for most people... Kids growing up on these areas see violence everywhere. There is nobody to teach them otherwise.. I do HATE the wannabes though. So I guess, the moral is, 'Damn the system for creating these monsters!' It's a shame, but they're still massive cocks. Thus, one getting slapped about isn't something that makes me lose any sleep. I've had enough of encountering these brainless, spineless morons in my life so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 The real chavs don't have a chance with the areas they grow in... I know in the city i live.. there are some no go areas for most people... Kids growing up on these areas see violence everywhere. There is nobody to teach them otherwise.. I'm sorry but that's a load of bollocks. I grew up in an area like that and I'm fine and was never a dickhead. These people are cunts. They have cunts for parents, they'll always be cunt, and their children will be cunts. You can blame their parents but when do you stop making excuses for them and blaming everyone else and start blaming them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The level of unintelligence on the first page frankly offends me more than anything else. Excluding a few people, and now some people seem to have wised up and realised(amusingly whilst they talk about face judgements etc) that they/we really don't know anything concrete about this story and so surely it's kind of silly to jump to either side? As I said, a few people had realised, but some people continue arguing like they do know. DOES anyone have more details on the story, cos I want to know more before judging. I feel it's entirely possible that there could be situations teacher could have been >95% at fault, and situations where the kid could have been >95% at fault. This story however? The sources seem to give no details of the actual situation. I don't want to judge it on that, or pictures, or what people apparently say about people involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 The level of unintelligence on the first page frankly offends me more than anything else. Excluding a few people, and now some people seem to have wised up and realised(amusingly whilst they talk about face judgements etc) that they/we really don't know anything concrete about this story and so surely it's kind of silly to jump to either side? As I said, a few people had realised, but some people continue arguing like they do know. DOES anyone have more details on the story, cos I want to know more before judging. I feel it's entirely possible that there could be situations teacher could have been >95% at fault, and situations where the kid could have been >95% at fault. This story however? The sources seem to give no details of the actual situation. I don't want to judge it on that, or pictures, or what people apparently say about people involved. Well, many of us aren't commenting on the facts at hand (which we don't have), but on the potential circumstances. Of course, it will never be okay for a teacher to hurt a student in any way. But we are considering what might have pushed the teacher to do it, and the kid fitting the stereotype of chavs seems plausible or at least possible. Chavs are apparently VERY hated in here (moreso than I actually realised), and part of the discussion has actually turned to that right now. I'm sorry but that's a load of bollocks. I grew up in an area like that and I'm fine and was never a dickhead. These people are cunts. They have cunts for parents, they'll always be cunt, and their children will be cunts. You can blame their parents but when do you stop making excuses for them and blaming everyone else and start blaming them. While people can break the cycle of how they were raised, it can be pretty damned hard. The stereotypical chavs are people who grow up in a low class society where people are poor and violence and crime are part of the norm. If they never see anything else, the risk that they end up with this lifestyle themselves is pretty high. Naturally, some break the cycle and actually manage to get out of it (I don't have any numbers, I'm simply arguing from my own reasoning here), but it isn't as easy as you make it out to be. We can only blame them if they had a choice and chose this lifestyle. But how many of them have actually had that choice? And how many of those who have had the choice have been strong enough to choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 While people can break the cycle of how they were raised, it can be pretty damned hard. The stereotypical chavs are people who grow up in a low class society where people are poor and violence and crime are part of the norm. If they never see anything else, the risk that they end up with this lifestyle themselves is pretty high. Naturally, some break the cycle and actually manage to get out of it (I don't have any numbers, I'm simply arguing from my own reasoning here), but it isn't as easy as you make it out to be. We can only blame them if they had a choice and chose this lifestyle. But how many of them have actually had that choice? And how many of those who have had the choice have been strong enough to choose? They do have a choice. Even if they come from a shit family they still have schools telling them what is right and wrong. They choose how they want to be. Coming from a poorer background doesn't automatically make you a violent person. Plenty of people from those places are very nice people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 They do have a choice. Even if they come from a shit family they still have schools telling them what is right and wrong. They choose how they want to be. Coming from a poorer background doesn't automatically make you a violent person. Plenty of people from those places are very nice people. That is true. But we must not underestimate how difficult it can be changing your mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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