Fresh Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 So in reflection, can England afford to ignore Michael Owen?
Ramar Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 One hat trick does not mean Michael Owen deserves to go to the World Cup. At the end of the season you want in form strikers who've played well over the season and are fit. Michael Owen is a bit part player who's had one solid game. By all means if he carries on to have a decent season then yes he should be considered but no one should be selected on one match.
DuD Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 What Ramar said. I thought it would just be wierd to thank it
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Some of his play has been pretty great to watch. He always seems to find space in the box. The winner against Man City was a testament to that. Completely unmarked. I've been really enjoying watching his movement off the ball. When he's had the ball is where he's looked a bit hit or miss. He definitely still has that killer instinct though and he knows where the goal is. That first goal yesterday, we do not see Rooney getting into those positions enough. At the moment, he's got 7 goals in total for United. 4 of those are in the Champions League, which will not harm his case for England at all. The thing you have to remember with the World Cup is that it is a cup competition, not a 30+ game league. When you consider that, I don't think it would be such a shock if Owen did go to the World Cup. He has been improving in each game, though. Some of his finishing could be better, and I'd be very interested to know what his chance-to-goal ratio is. But, the important thing is that he is getting in those positions and is looking to score. I think he now needs to capitalise on this and follow it up with more performances. He is a goal-scorer, and as long as he keeps looking hungry then I think he'll be a contender to go. Imo, Rooney and Defoe are already guaranteed to go. So, that leaves Heskey, Crouch, Owen, Cole and Bent to fight it out. It's a good problem for England, though. All of these are good strikers.
Fresh Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 One hat trick does not mean Michael Owen deserves to go to the World Cup. At the end of the season you want in form strikers who've played well over the season and are fit. Michael Owen is a bit part player who's had one solid game. By all means if he carries on to have a decent season then yes he should be considered but no one should be selected on one match. Some of his play has been pretty great to watch. He always seems to find space in the box. The winner against Man City was a testament to that. Completely unmarked. I've been really enjoying watching his movement off the ball. When he's had the ball is where he's looked a bit hit or miss. He definitely still has that killer instinct though and he knows where the goal is. That first goal yesterday, we do not see Rooney getting into those positions enough. At the moment, he's got 7 goals in total for United. 4 of those are in the Champions League, which will not harm his case for England at all. The thing you have to remember with the World Cup is that it is a cup competition, not a 30+ game league. When you consider that, I don't think it would be such a shock if Owen did go to the World Cup. He has been improving in each game, though. Some of his finishing could be better, and I'd be very interested to know what his chance-to-goal ratio is. But, the important thing is that he is getting in those positions and is looking to score. I think he now needs to capitalise on this and follow it up with more performances. He is a goal-scorer, and as long as he keeps looking hungry then I think he'll be a contender to go. Imo, Rooney and Defoe are already guaranteed to go. So, that leaves Heskey, Crouch, Owen, Cole and Bent to fight it out. It's a good problem for England, though. All of these are good strikers. Just been watching ITV and for once they talked some sense. Take 4 strikers to WC, they claim that really only 2 get played. That leaves 2 who never really get a run. Obviously you are going to take Rooney and a big man (Heskey?) but what about the other two. Bent? Defoe? C. Cole? still have Crouch? For me even if you loose a player else where and maybe take 5 strikers there has to be a place for Owen. If your going to take Beckham for his delivery then you take Owen for his finishing.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Just been watching ITV and for once they talked some sense. Take 4 strikers to WC, they claim that really only 2 get played. That leaves 2 who never really get a run. Obviously you are going to take Rooney and a big man (Heskey?) but what about the other two. Bent? Defoe? C. Cole? still have Crouch? For me even if you loose a player else where and maybe take 5 strikers there has to be a place for Owen. If your going to take Beckham for his delivery then you take Owen for his finishing. I heard that, too. Yeah, it does make sense. For me, Rooney and Defoe are definitely going. Heskey will probably get a place as Capello likes his hold up play. Two strikers will definitely be used the most, probably Rooney and Heskey as first choice. Then, you bring on other strikers and players if things are not going well. Owen isn't being taken as a first choice starter, he'll most likely be taken as an impact sub. The only problem is that Defoe could be seen as an impact sub and looks like a potential starter for England. Crouch is very good at coming off the bench and getting something, too. So, that could be your 4 strikers. For me, the main thing is that there will only be a handful of games. What is it altogether? About 8 games? So, you need to take players incase of any injuries to your first 11, and players who can come off the bench, step into a role and make a difference. This is where flexibility and impact will count. Say that England make it to the Quarter Finals, 20 mins remaining and are looking for somebody to put the ball into the back of the net. Michael Owen can do that. I think the only problem is if something happens to one or more of the first choice strikers. Would Capello start a game with Owen? Probably not. Would he be comfortable starting with either Crouch or Defoe? Probably yes. That could be a factor. The competition will go quicker than you imagine, though. It's better to have Owen and not need him, then to need him and not have him there.
Emerald Emblem Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/8402520.stm 30 seconds in That's £250 right there.
DuD Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 But seeing as Defoe and Owen are very similar players.. In the situation you described (20 mins left, desperate need of a goal), surely Defoe would be your choice of striker to bring on. He's got the pace, the finishing and the movement. In my oppinion anyway. If Owen goes on to show that his finishing is consistently that good then maybe.. but at the moment with the choice between an in form finisher who leads the line for his club, and someone who has really only had two (at a push) decent games, Defoe wins hands down. As things stand at the moment (and theres no injures), if there is space in the squad for a fifth striker, then yes, Owen would make my squad. Otherwise not for me.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) But seeing as Defoe and Owen are very similar players.. In the situation you described (20 mins left, desperate need of a goal), surely Defoe would be your choice of striker to bring on. He's got the pace, the finishing and the movement. In my oppinion anyway. If Owen goes on to show that his finishing is consistently that good then maybe.. but at the moment with the choice between an in form finisher who leads the line for his club, and someone who has really only had two (at a push) decent games, Defoe wins hands down. As things stand at the moment (and theres no injures), if there is space in the squad for a fifth striker, then yes, Owen would make my squad. Otherwise not for me. That seems like a fair assessment, I think. He started off looking a bit un-sharp infront of goal, but he's looking a bit more potent now, imo. Not just yesterday's game, but his last few games. In fairness to him, he has had quite a few different strike partners playing alongside him, and yesterday he was pretty much the lone striker with Wellbeck and Nani playing on the wings to feed him. So, in terms of being versatile with who he's playing with, I think he's looking better each game in that respect. His finishing is what he needs to improve on, definitely. I think he needs to knuckle down now and put in some more good performances. At the moment, I think he's definitely in contention, but he's not fully justified his place yet. Also, with England, isn't there the option to play Theo Walcott up front, too? He can also play on the wing, so he's versatile. That's something that Owen doesn't quite have. He really doesn't have any extra dimensions to his game. But, think about someone like Owen Hargreaves, who can play in central midfield, right wing, and right back. It's a shame he isn't fit, because he would definitely be in the squad. Edit: Forgot to mention, what is the situation with Carlton Cole? Because he was a strong contender for that fourth spot, along with Peter Crouch. Edited December 10, 2009 by Fierce_LiNk
Eddage Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Cole is injured at the moment, but as far as I'm concerned if he's fit he should be selected in front of Heskey every time. Cole is big and can hold the ball up, but the most important thing is that he can actually finish off a chance, which for a forward is kinda important
spirited away Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Cole is injured at the moment, but as far as I'm concerned if he's fit he should be selected in front of Heskey every time. Cole is big and can hold the ball up, but the most important thing is that he can actually finish off a chance, which for a forward is kinda important I really really hope that Heskey does not get picked for the England squad - although that's a bit futile. I would personally take Rooney, Defoe, Cole, Owen/Crouch (tricky one that is).
Ramar Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 Also, with England, isn't there the option to play Theo Walcott up front, too? The way Theo is playing at the minute he'll be lucky to make our starting 11 let alone the World Cup squad. He's been shocking since coming back from injury. I would definitely take Heskey over Cole. Heskey himself may not score many, but he has created a successful partnership with Rooney which worked during the qualifiers it would be stupid to tear that apart and start again once in the competition. Capello (unlike the last few managers England has had) is all about the team, not individuals. Plus Heskey works his bloody arse off every game and gets not even a sniff of credit from anyone.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 There's still time for Theo to get his act together, though. When he's on form, much like Aaron Lennon, he can tear people apart. But yeah, he hasn't looked his best this season, I've noticed that, too. I'm also in the Heskey-defence camp. He's got a great way of holding up the ball and bringing others into play. Which means that this helps players like Lampard and Gerrard to get their goals. Defoe and Owen are more direct approaches, get the ball to them and then they'll finish off their chances themselves. I haven't made my mind up on Carlton Cole yet.
Jon Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 I think Cole is the more complete player than Heskey. He can do all the hold up stuff that a big man needs too but he also has great feet. I don't think Owen will go, because I don't think Capello likes him at all. The argument he has used in the past for not selecting Owen is bollocks, as he keeps selecting Heskey even though he doesn't play and has scored about one goal. If was England coach, i'd go for Rooney, Defoe, Owen, Cole and Crouch/Bent.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 That's a good point, JonSt. In Capello's defence, Heskey makes up for his lack of goal scoring by bringing others into play. Owen doesn't really offer that. If Owen doesn't score goals or lacks sharpness, it would be more similar to Defoe not scoring goals than Heskey. Owen and Defoe are the ones the wingers and midfielders look for in the box, they're that serious goal threat. I don't think they're as good as holding up the ball as someone like Heskey or Cole. Mr. Bent seems to be the forgotten man, though. And, Peter Crouch.
DuD Posted December 10, 2009 Posted December 10, 2009 I quite like Bent. I never really understood why he was hardly ever played at Tottenham. The guy always seems to find the net. some how, some way. I mean for fooks sake, a beachball turned up and gave him a goal against the Pool. You can't overlook that kind of luck.
Roostophe Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 Dean Ashton retires at 26. Gutted for him.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 11, 2009 Posted December 11, 2009 Dean Ashton retires at 26. Gutted for him. What a shame. So early into his career. Poor guy, feel really sorry for him.
Roostophe Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Ooh, our first win at Old Trafford since 1983? How marvellous. 3 in 3 against the Big Four, now...whassamadda? Three years ago you could all beat us...
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Well done, Villan. I wanted to post about the game, but I already had the last post here, so I thought I'd look like a tart if I posted. Anyway, you did well. So, well done. As for us, well, I knew we'd play 4-5-1/4-3-3, but I don't particularly like it when we do. Especially at home. We had Owen scoring 3 goals last week, Berbatov looking good this season and back from injury, and yet we still started with one striker. Rooney was pretty poor, getting booked for diving (I hate it when he even attempts to dive. Just don't do it, Wayne). Another thing, and I think I speak for all United fans when I say this: He should never ever be allowed to stand infront of the ball when it comes to taking free-kicks. Or corners. His delivery is pretty poor, he never beats the first man, he always hits the wall...just stay in the box and put the chances away. You are a striker. This is what you do. At half time, I lightened up when I saw Owen coming on, but we took Giggs off instead of Park. Then, we took Park off...and bought Berbatov on. Why not Obertan? Berbatov only ever looks like scoring if the service into him is good. So, we just relied on Valencia, or Evra who was both left winger and left back to provide the service. The last sub was used on Gibson. We just played too narrowly, when we should have used Obertan out wide to provide some service into the strikers. We could have played 5 strikers, but if you can't get the service to them then it's just ineffective. Villa defended very, very well and they worked very hard to make it a frustrating game for us. They forced us to play narrow. Our best moments came when Valencia got behind his marker but we just couldn't get the ball into the net. If we had someone on the left who could do the same, I think we would've had more of a chance to get a goal.
Iun Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Well done, Villan. I wanted to post about the game, but I already had the last post here, so I thought I'd look like a tart if I posted. Anyway, you did well. So, well done. At half time, I lightened up when I saw Owen coming on, but we took Giggs off instead of Park. Then, we took Park off...and bought Berbatov on. Why not Obertan? Berbatov only ever looks like scoring if the service into him is good. So, we just relied on Valencia, or Evra who was both left winger and left back to provide the service. The last sub was used on Gibson. We just played too narrowly, when we should have used Obertan out wide to provide some service into the strikers. We could have played 5 strikers, but if you can't get the service to them then it's just ineffective. Unusually for China the highlights were shown. Seemed like a scrappy game, well done to Villa for securing a surprising but heartening win. Wasn't there some problem midweek with Park though? Something about a flare-up of an old injury?
darksnowman Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 A cracking 3-3 with Bolton and Man City yesterday. Just what are Liverpool playing at right now? How not to win has been the story of the season thus far for us. 1-0 up to currently 2-1 down... Ramar will be loving it.
Charlie Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 A cracking 3-3 with Bolton and Man City yesterday. Just what are Liverpool playing at right now? How not to win has been the story of the season thus far for us. 1-0 up to currently 2-1 down... Ramar will be loving it. I'm loving it too! Got money on Arsenal to win! Was so tempted to put on Liverpool/Arsenal (HT/FT result) at 40/1 but decided against it. 1:10 for the goal from their own half, Stoke vs Wigan yesterday.
Fierce_LiNk Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Unusually for China the highlights were shown. Seemed like a scrappy game, well done to Villa for securing a surprising but heartening win. Wasn't there some problem midweek with Park though? Something about a flare-up of an old injury? It's all down to international duty, and when he returns to the UK from it. Basically, he gets some swelling in his knee that flares up when returning from abroad. I think the presumption is that it's down to flying, so Sir Alex is looking into ways of making alternative travel arrangements. It's severely limited his starts and appearances for us this season, and he hasn't really looked as sharp as he could be, imo. He's a little favourite though, always giving his effort and determination. Villa were great yesterday. Very complete. They had Dunne and Friedal at the back, who are both mountains. Young in midfield who I thought was great, and Agbonlahor is such a threat up front. The problem I think is down to consistency for them, which is what I think will hinder both them and Spurs when it comes to breaking the top 4. If Villa played like that every week, they would secure the top 4 position, in my opinion. Just watched that Liverpool and Arsenal game. I thought Liverpool looked great in the first half, but the second they looked so, so different. They are so fragile. After that own goal, I think the players just stopped believing they could win the game and you can't let your head drop again a team like Arsenal, because they will punish you for it. I thought Song was outstanding for them, today. My man of the match. Charlie: Figueroa is class. Excellent signing by Steve Bruce when he was at Wigan. What a goal, haha. Edited December 13, 2009 by Fierce_LiNk
Fresh Posted December 13, 2009 Posted December 13, 2009 Where does Steve Bruce find his signings? I know some come recommended from Wenger but some he seems just to pick out of nowhere.
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