Who else believes the Wii is starting to lose the "Console Wars"?

[Pete]

I was really talking about the "Harcore Gamer" stuff, not the sales.

Its obvious that the Wii will continue to dominate those both together, and I agree specially with Retro_Link's opinion, but I'm really talking about hardcore games and stuff.

 

Pleasing 'der hardcorz' (sorry but on a personal level all I think these labels are so lame) and sales are two different things-not totally but still they are.

 

If you mean people who really love there Wii for it's motion controls jumping ship to Sony or Microsoft, I cant see it happening, as for new buyers, the Wii is known for it motions controls though blanket advertising, this is enough for the casual buyer, a 'hardcore' gamer should be aware of motion plus, be aware of titles up and coming such Sin and Punishment, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, Metroid Etc and also be aware of titles out there allready such as Mad Worid, pro evo overkill etc - the softwares there I think.

 

As for a serious gamer thinking (for example) Well now the PS3 does what Wii does so maybe I will just get a PS3, with the credit crunch that may be a bit of a factor but I think the apeal of buying that cool little white box with Wii sport as starter game will still hold lots of appeal. Also PS3 is still expensive, some people who are not new to gaming may just purchase a Wii - as I did. Oh and the new 360 new controls seem like they won't take off to me .

 

As a side note I mentioned finding labels lame, sure there are people more into games and gaming culture than others (im playing thunder force 4 right now!) and maybe hardcore gamer is a handy way to describe a certain type of gamer on line but anyone who would call them self that in life might as well where a t-shirt saying 'WOMAN STAY AWAY FROM ME 100% GEEK HERE' lol.

 

For Sony the Eye Toy was never much more than an after thought, maybe there new motion controls could well be the same - I would not be suprised, they do consoles ok, can develop good games, (little big plannet- also- and sure If ide like a machine to also play Street fighter and Soul Calibur 4 on others will too - but apart from that on personal level I can easily do without the rest of the games on the platforms) but inovation aint there thing imo.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Pete

[Bitolas]

Nope, this addons for the X360 and PS3 are coming to late and won't be the main controllers, I look at them like the Eyetoy was, it's just an accessory with a hand full of games that support it, nothing more. It's too late for MS and Sony to win this console war, it simply won't happen.

 

Also I still don't know what is for you a hardcore game? Or a hardcore console? A hardcore gamer is someone who plays ANY game, no matter the system (Wii, PS3, X360, PC), if you're a hardcore gamer you should have all the gaming systems, to play all the exclusives, if you don't then your just a normal gamer. The concept of "Hardcore Console" or "Hardcore Game" was made up by some retarded people at Sony/Microsoft to keep people away from the Wii.

[darkjak]

I'm confused by what the first post is asking. But, it's been a strange generation, this one. We're probably about halfway through the lifecycle for this generation of consoles, yet people are abandoning consoles, "jumping ship", or forking out money to buy new consoles. Suddenly, if games like Pilotwings and Kid Icarus (which were not even released on any console during the last generation of consoles) are not shown in some form, or if games like F Zero are not released, people go into a frenzy.

 

I always knew Nintendo fans were strange, but this generation has really been something else. I doubt many would be happy with anything that gets shown or released. Pedro is pretty much right in his last post, if the Wii was looked at on it's own merits and it's own games, then it would be seen a lot more favourably.

 

F-Zero's been out for every Nintendo console since release, bar the original Gameboy and the DS. I don't understand why Nintendo fans shouldn't be pissed if Nintendo abandon some of the most loved franchises and go off doing cheap assed cash cows.

The frenzy about Pilotwings raged on already last generation, why the f**k would it stop now?

 

And to look on the Wii "in its own merits" is just plain bull. It's a games machine! Something we're taught here is that you're allways supposed to make a good game. NOT a game that's good considering certain factors.

 

 

That said, there are several interesting games coming to the Wii.

 

Nintendo should, now that they OWN the casual market attempt to conquer the core and mainstream markets as well.

'Cuz let's face it, there's a fair ammount of people whom are between core and casual. The guys whom aren't intimidated by a controller, but yet still buy games based on the boxart. People whom buy Need for Speed and think it's realistic, or whom buy Timesplitters but never realise there are unlockables ().

Nintendo are far too snowed in on the casuals. They could do A LOT more to attract the core and mainstream, especially considering that both tend to be attracted to the same types of games

[Pestneb]

There's a reason Nintendo didn't bring out the wii controller for the gamecube. Thats because commercially the cube was a flop. So is the PS3. I would say the PS3 is the better console out there, in general terms.

As for the 360, I agree. Natal needs a concept video like the wii one, showing us how we would control games without a "controller" per se. Also, with Natal, what happens when someone walks behind you? what about people with disabilities? what about space requirements?

 

PS3 seems to have the most convincing control rival. But with both Microsoft and PS3, I fail to see a sales pitch to development teams, outside of "We'll pay you £x million."

both consoles are more expensive to develop for, spending time to figure out how to use these controllers will be costly, this generation is probably about half way through, since this is an add on its likely to have low market penetration, most people who would be interested in this kind of controller will most likely either own a Wii, or will be very brand concious (ie fanboys) so it will be hard to break into the market.

 

really there is only one reason I can see for investing into this, and this is for the "version 2" that both companies will reveal for their next generation machines. but Unless they reveal version to will be the principle control method, or at least included in the box, I see it as an uncompelling reason.

Unless they can assure companies that this will be the case it will be a gamble, one that would be unwise to make. Even if it is the case, it is likely Nintendo have an elegant solution for next gen, likely backwards possibility.

[Dante]

Financial Times

Nintendo tried and rejected the motion-sensing technology that Sony and Microsoft are counting on to catch up in the video game wars, the company’s president told the Financial Times.

 

Satoru Iwata said his company had made experimental games controlled by camera-based sensors, but got better results with the accelerometers it eventually chose to use for its Wii console.

 

Mr Iwata’s comments throw down the gauntlet to Nintendo’s rivals, both of which announced motion controllers based on cameras this week in an effort to catch up with the Wii’s runaway sales lead.

 

The Wii has sold more than 50m units worldwide, compared with 30m of Microsoft’s Xbox 360, which launched a year earlier, and 23m of Sony’s PlayStation 3.

 

“Until they say when they’re releasing it, how much it costs and what software it comes with, we won’t know whether that is the route we should have taken. However . . . I think they couldn’t choose to release exactly the same thing,” said Mr Iwata.

[Guest Maase]

I'm not talking about sales... I'm talking about the hardcore games like Red Steel and etc.

Now that PS3 has a "Wiimote", per se, and the Hardcore games are bought a lot more on the PS3, one would think that every company who wanted hardcore games with inovative controls would move for the PS3.

 

That's what I'm saying, can the Admins change the name of the topic, or something?

[Jonnas]

F-Zero's been out for every Nintendo console since release, bar the original Gameboy and the DS. I don't understand why Nintendo fans shouldn't be pissed if Nintendo abandon some of the most loved franchises and go off doing cheap assed cash cows.

 

I just wanted to say that any kind of F-Zero Nintendo could make right now wouldn't hold a candle towards GX (unless they managed to create a good online mode featuring 30 racers at once, an impossible feat with the Wii). So if they hadn't "ignored" it, they would, indeed, be doing "cheap assed cash cows". They're not Capcom, you know

 

Also, last time I checked, their most beloved franchises are Mario, Pokémon, Zelda and Metroid (probably in that order). As much as some people love F-Zero till the end of time, it's not as popular or accessible as many think it is.

 

 

As for the thread, Pedro said everything. Third-parties develop for new devices that come with the console, but they rarely do it with late add-ons. The Wiimote-interested fanbase already has a Wii, so developing motion-sensing for the PS3 is risky (or even couterproductive, considering development costs)

 

But hey, who knows what the future holds...

[S.C.G]

The Wii... losing the console wars? Its been winning them for ages - in sales at least - and tbh is just getting started.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I think the Wii has already won saleswise.

 

What you are talking about, I reckon, is the focus on the casual games, and if it will remove Nintendo's focus on hardcore games entirely. My personal opinion is: No. I don't think Nintendo will ever let their core titles go, though I am scared of it sometimes. Like through the most of this year's E3. But then Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid: Other M and an awesome piece of artwork for the next Zelda come along, and I feel safe and sound again.

[Grazza]

Speaking as a Wii sceptic, I honestly find it the most exciting console now. The idea that it will host Zelda, a 3rd-person Metroid, two 3D Marios, a 2D Mario and Dragon Quest X really does put it high above the other consoles to me. I'm even quite excited about Wii Sports Resort.

 

I'd rather they were on a better machine with traditional controls, but they're not, and it's the games that count in the end.

[Konfucius]

Backup up by their strong line-up that mainly consists of casual stuff - but that's what sells - I don't think the Wii will lose the console wars. I wonder if it actually could at this point.

 

However I think Nintendo could run into a problem with the Wii successor because if it's only an upgrade graphics wise and doesn't offer even more exercise due to new controls, the casual-market will most likely wait quite a long time or not buy it all - because I wonder how they would market more advanced hardware to a demographic that doesn't care about such things. The early adopters most often are people like the ones on this forum including myself and if the console doesn't have a few tempting titles around release it won't sell and so devs will shy away from it and you can figure out the rest.

[Tellyn]

I don't think Nintendo have any fears for selling the Wii 2 to the public. They did a good enough job selling the DS Lite and DSi to them without too many fancy new features, so imagine what a push into the HD market, more horsepower and a generally better console could do for them.

[Emasher]

As long as they keep the Wii name, have some kind of new hook, with some new Wii Prefix title and some sort of hardcore games to get us to buy it and get the word out, they should be fine. Especially if they discontinue the original Wii when this new one comes out.

[Fierce_LiNk]

F-Zero's been out for every Nintendo console since release, bar the original Gameboy and the DS. I don't understand why Nintendo fans shouldn't be pissed if Nintendo abandon some of the most loved franchises and go off doing cheap assed cash cows.

 

That's a very biased way of putting it. First off, just because it has not been released does not mean it has been abandoned. By this logic, does this mean that a "true" Zelda Wii has been abandoned? I love F Zero more than most people, and I recognise that GX was pretty much a mammoth effort of a game. If more work is being done to better this, then I'm happy to wait that bit longer. It's not easy to be topped. Did we all complain at the long wait between Mario Sunshine and Mario Galaxy? Probably, but it was worth it in the end.

 

What exactly is the cheap arsed cash cow Nintendo are doing? Galaxy 2, because that's one of a cash cow. If only all cows were made that well, it should be industry standard.

 

The frenzy about Pilotwings raged on already last generation, why the f**k would it stop now?

 

The problem with this is that there have been very, very few indicators that games like this have even been in the works. Think about the Kid Icarus problem, how often do we hear "rumours" (thank you IGN's Matt...) that it is in the works? How often do we see or hear nothing official? If we've been raging about it this generation, raging about it last generation, and heard nothing even remotely official or anything concrete, doesn't logic say that we should calm our lust for these games? To say that people were disappointed that these games were not revealed at E3 is bordering on the absurd.

 

And to look on the Wii "in its own merits" is just plain bull. It's a games machine! Something we're taught here is that you're allways supposed to make a good game. NOT a game that's good considering certain factors.

 

I'm confused by this. The Wii is a fantastic games machine, I love it, many people here love the games on the system. But, it sometimes feels as if it is a crime to enjoy your games on the Wii. Like you have to want what is available on the other systems, or want their features. Whilst games like No More Heroes, Madworld and Super Smash Bros. Brawl are by no means perfect games, they're good games in their own right. Every game should be judged on what it does well, and every system should be judged on what it does well. To me, it reminds me of the old Oasis vs. The Beatles argument. That Oasis were just doing what The Beatles did, but in a different era. There's differences there, and you accept those differences. I love both bands, for different reasons. I love the Wii for what it does well, and I love the SNES for what that does/did well, and the games featured on those systems.

[The Lillster]

People keep ranting and raving about the press confrence, as if that's all Nintendo has to offer.

 

At the end of the day Nintendo isn't going to reveal all it's aces at once.

 

The OP thinks that because the PS3 has more hardcore big budget games than the Wii, automaticly means Wii will automaticly be depraved of worthwhile 3rd party efforts. If you look at the sales charts of big budget games such as Killzone 2, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Little Big Planet. The games I just mentioned are all excellent games yes, but when it comes to sales they can't compete against the likes of Wii fit, Mario kart and not too long ago Mario and Sonic at the olympic games.

 

I can see where your coming from Maase, but in my opinion it's not going to turn out the way your thinking.

 

The way I see it, if i'm strictly talking from your point of view is, developers will have to spend lots of money on developing the game and probably the game engine too. As you probably know developing a hardcore or as I like to call them big budget games take a lot of time and resources. 3rd parties have only recently got their hands on the Wand devkit or whatever you want to call it. Big games not only cost a lot of money they also cost the most important thing and that is time. By the time a really great game of high cailbre comes to market, Wii HD with advanced motion technology will probably be in your nearest GAME with whatever 'big budget' game Nintendo plans to launch the system with.

 

What I do suspect though is a lot of cool and intresting indie games appearing on the Playstation Store utilizing the technology. And as a PS3 owner i'm looking forward to it.

 

But as i've said in my other post, it's all just speculation at the moment, so I may be completly wrong, we'll just have to wait and see.

[tissuetown]

People who consider themselves as "Hardcore" gamers will already have either a 360 or PS3, or even all three by now.

 

In the end, the Wii will always be the console where most people will only keep to buy the exclusive Nintendo games. It has always been the case really.

 

The winner is the one who has all three. The only loser is the wallet.

 

As long as Nintendo keep announcing their small increment of hardcore first party games, no brainers like Metroid OM and SMG2, that will be enough to keep the nintendo fanboys happy, and even prevent the other console owners from selling their Wii. It has been like that since the Wii came out. It will be like this for many years to come now.

[Emasher]

What Maase is trying to say is that Chavs and Fadders don't consider the Wii to be worth playing and because of that it has lost. Am I right.

 

I would say there's an equal number of hardcore gamers on each console. Many of the people who consider themselves hardcore just aren't as hardcore surely means that you have to have a clue about games and not just play 1 or 2 all the time because its "cool". Basing who has won the console war on the opinions of Chavs and Fadders (the mainstream) is pointless, as these people really have no idea about gaming, they're just doing what is "cool"

 

If you understand what I'm saying.

[Noku]

 

I'm assuming you meant Kyoto.

 

Nah, rather as a "pars pro toto": Nintendo of Japan.

 

There's no other way of looking at this than sales numbers, as far as Nintendo is concerned. So no, they can't lose the warz anymorez.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

What Maase is trying to say is that Chavs and Fadders don't consider the Wii to be worth playing and because of that it has lost. Am I right.

 

I would say there's an equal number of hardcore gamers on each console. Many of the people who consider themselves hardcore just aren't as hardcore surely means that you have to have a clue about games and not just play 1 or 2 all the time because its "cool". Basing who has won the console war on the opinions of Chavs and Fadders (the mainstream) is pointless, as these people really have no idea about gaming, they're just doing what is "cool"

 

If you understand what I'm saying.

The thing is, there's a difference between the real hardcore gamers and those that call themselves hardcore gamers. The latter group consists of chavs and fadders who will only play "cool" games like Halo. The former group simply consists of people who also enjoy the bigger and deeper games like Metroid Prime and Galaxy as opposed to the casual gamers who mainly stick to games like Wii Sports.

 

The confusing thing that has lead people to shun the terms "casual" and "hardcore" (which I think is a shame, as the terms themselves are actually valid enough) is that Nintendo is breaking down the barriers between those terms. The casual market is being invited into the hardcore, and many hardcore gamers also enjoy the casual games, which are at the same time moving into a grey area between casual and hardcore.

 

So yeah, don't just shun the terms casual and hardcore, as there is a difference between the two groups. Shun the people who misuse the terms.

[darkjak]

That's a very biased way of putting it. First off, just because it has not been released does not mean it has been abandoned. By this logic, does this mean that a "true" Zelda Wii has been abandoned? I love F Zero more than most people, and I recognise that GX was pretty much a mammoth effort of a game. If more work is being done to better this, then I'm happy to wait that bit longer. It's not easy to be topped. Did we all complain at the long wait between Mario Sunshine and Mario Galaxy? Probably, but it was worth it in the end.

 

Let's get one thing straight. I mean what I write, nothing more. I said that Nintendo fans have the right to be pissed IF Nintendo abandon F-zero and other loved franchises. I have never said that Nintendo HAVE abandoned F-zero.

 

What exactly is the cheap arsed cash cow Nintendo are doing? Galaxy 2, because that's one of a cash cow. If only all cows were made that well, it should be industry standard.

I'm referring to Wii Sports Resort, make up studio (which I think uses a very narrow view on women and probably will get criticized by feminist groups) and that lot. I'm very pleased with seeing MG2!

 

The problem with this is that there have been very, very few indicators that games like this have even been in the works. Think about the Kid Icarus problem, how often do we hear "rumours" (thank you IGN's Matt...) that it is in the works? How often do we see or hear nothing official? If we've been raging about it this generation, raging about it last generation, and heard nothing even remotely official or anything concrete, doesn't logic say that we should calm our lust for these games? To say that people were disappointed that these games were not revealed at E3 is bordering on the absurd.

Well, a Nintendo release list from circa 1998 stated that PW2 was going to be released for the N64, so there definitely were plans for a sequel to PW64.

And of course, it's a great Nintendo franchise, as fans we have the right to be dissapointed regardlessly. This isn't the Soviet Union where you get sent to the Gulag for wanting more than you get.

Just like Toyota fans have been raging because Toyota discontinued both the MR2, Celica, Supra and even the Corolla GTi, leaving Toyota with no fun cars left.

 

I'm confused by this. The Wii is a fantastic games machine, I love it, many people here love the games on the system. But, it sometimes feels as if it is a crime to enjoy your games on the Wii. Like you have to want what is available on the other systems, or want their features. Whilst games like No More Heroes, Madworld and Super Smash Bros. Brawl are by no means perfect games, they're good games in their own right. Every game should be judged on what it does well, and every system should be judged on what it does well. To me, it reminds me of the old Oasis vs. The Beatles argument. That Oasis were just doing what The Beatles did, but in a different era. There's differences there, and you accept those differences. I love both bands, for different reasons. I love the Wii for what it does well, and I love the SNES for what that does/did well, and the games featured on those systems.

 

Yes, the Wii is great, and there are undoubtedly many great games. However, we don't exactly have many choices in each genre. In first person shooters we so far only have Medal of Honor, within realistic-ish racing we only have Ferrari, with traditional fighting we have Castlevania and with flight sims we have Heatseeker.

I absolutely love the Wii and wouldn't want to sell it. As a matter of fact, I've recomended my mother to buy one. I got really psyched over the new Metroid and Mario Galaxy games, and I'm probably going to pick up Grinder whenever it's released. Sin and Punishment is a must buy and if I didn't have a Wii, I'd buy one for the next Zelda alone. And once I get cash (from summer work), I'll probably buy a lot of games I've missed out on thanks to my anorectic student wallet.

 

I am a Nintendo fan. I love Nintendo's franchises, that's the reason I pre ordered a Wii.

However I want Nintendo to get a game catalog so good and varied I'll have a good conscience selling my 360.

[markderoos]

I'm in fact very pleased with both the Wii's release list and back-catologue.

What surprises me is the constant call for f-zero/pilot wings/kid icarus.

 

I know they're good games and I loved all the past editions of 'em, but what I would like to see are new IP's. Not all are my cup of tea, but if you look at the sales charts; most of them have sold well, albeit among different kinds of audiences. I'm talking about the Wii prefix franchises (Sports, Play, Fit, Chess, Music) and Endless Ocean for example.

But there is something I'm missing for Nintendo as a developer; a new IP not focussing on the casual market. If you compare the Wii to its predecessors there's a big difference;

 

The NES brought us a whole list of original IP's (kind of makes sence as it was Nintendo's first console)

 

The SNES brought the first Mario Kart, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pilotwings for example.

N64 brought Waverace, Blast Corps, 1080, Yoshi's Story, Sin & Punishment and the first Smash Bros.

The Cube had Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Animal Crossing and Doshin, Geist, Mario Strikers.

 

But what has Nintendo brought to Wii except for sequels/casual IP's? That's the only little concern I have. Luckily enough most of the sequels are VERY good and even some of the casual games are ok-ish. And of course the Third party backing is more then plenty right now.

[Zechs Merquise]

It is also utter nonsense that now the PS3 has it's own 'Wii remote' it will now magically capture the same market and overtake the Wii. For an input method to radically alter a console's sales it has to be integral to the experience and bundled with it as part of the package. Plus, it's also unlikely that the SONY wand will be out this year. Bt the time it does emerge SONY will be even further behind.

[Emasher]

...

 

I agree with that entire post (didn't quote the text just the post). Thats exactly what I was trying to say with my last post.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I agree with that entire post (didn't quote the text just the post). Thats exactly what I was trying to say with my last post.

Nice to hear I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I was just getting tired of this aversion to the terms casual and hardcore. They may be somewhat misleading, but they're simply labels to mark the difference between games like Galaxy and Corruption and games like Wii Sports and Wii Play. And don't try to tell me there's not a fundamental difference between both the games and the markets they're aiming for.

 

The problems all stem from misuse of the terms and the theory behind them.

[Nicktendo]

Though I'd post this in here instead of creating a new thread...

 

Wii Owners to Upgrade to PS3?

Sony's House sees Nintendo's console as stepping stone for new gamers.

by Martin Robinson, IGN UK

 

UK, June 9, 2009 - A significant number of Wii users will eventually upgrade to a PlayStation 3, according to recent comments from Sony Computer Entertainment Europe's newly appointed President Andrew House.

 

'If you look back at previous lifecycles, like PS2 versus N64, we have lots of data that suggests that lots of people bought into N64 as their entry level gaming device, and were happy to upgrade to a more powerful machine later in the life cycle when the price point was right for them,' said House in an interview with Edge Online.

 

'I think we're going to see this later on PS3, and the fact that it's a Blu-ray player as well and that there's a [greater] wealth of network based experiences than are perhaps available on the device they already have will add to the proposition. I think that will definitely be a factor in the marketplace.'

 

Elsewhere in the interview, House remained coy about the possibility of a price cut for the PlayStation 3 in Europe, despite mounting speculation that the console will see a $100 reduction in the US later this year. 'The great thing for me is that European consumers have understood the total value proposition that you get with PS3, not focused solely on pricing' said House, 'We will have to constantly monitor that and make adjustments when all the factors come into play and make the right decisions at the right time.'

 

Well, I'm considering a PS3 as a Wii successor at the moment...

 

I must say I was amazed by the Motion demo they did and in my opinion it seemed more advanced than what the Wii offers. But then again I'm yet to experience Wii motion plus so I'm in no position to really comment.

 

The game line-up on the PS3 has me much more excited than the Wii currently and the oppertunity to play games like GTA 4 and serious racers (which I am a massive fan of) is drawing me to the PS3. As well as that I didn't experience a PS2, but heard about games like SotC, God of War and Ico, so potentail sequals or PSN downloads of these games is something I'm looking out for. As well as FFVII on PSN, a game I've NEVER played... In fact I've already set aside £35 a week to get one hopefully. I just wish they'd announce a damn slim version which is cheaper.

 

Thoughts?