Best Zelda game ever (poll)

[Ronnie]

A 2D sidescrolling game as the best Zelda? How did that happen. This is not right... It's a cool game I love to play once each year, but NO!!!!!! It is not the best Zelda, it doesn't make sense, now does it?

 

I think I'm still missing some statistics. And I need to put it in some formula, to calculate its true value. First time playing; double count, some improved? gameplay / controls thingy, creativity and coolness, bonus points for NES and handheld games which have to compete with something they can't. Points deduction for some things, like being made many years later. Some other stuff....

 

I'll take care of that one of these days.

Right now, the list is incomplete.

 

And after that, the list is still buggy, as I still haven't played all Zelda titles.

 

 

... what?

 

I would ask if you were drunk when posting that, but at 11am, surely not!

[ClassicGamer]

Who says I'm not drunk at 11am?

But, anyway.... What do you mean?

 

That Zelda 2 thing comes from an old post, where I gave it a bit too much points somehow (underrated and creative, but not that much), and I feel I have to make up for it....

[Ronnie]

Who mentioned Zelda 2 was the best Zelda? I can't see anyone saying that, and the poll results certainly don't back it up.

 

"Missing some statistics"? "Formula"? "Coolness"?

 

What list is incomplete? The poll options? What is incomplete abot it?

 

The list is "buggy"? Again, what list? How is it buggy?

 

It was just a very strange post that didn't make much sense and looked like the drunken ramblings you'd find early on saturday morning

[ClassicGamer]

Sorry, I kinda drifted off.

 

I didn't vote yet, and I was wondering how to do so on page 3, then I made my own list (the same list that seems to be buggy to me) on page 4 describing how I think the zelda games would be rated by myself (voting for one Zelda is too difficult, so some of us tried to make a top 3).....

 

Then somebody asked if the final scores I gave in that post should summarize my top three. That's where the Zelda 2 (NES game, which wasn't included in the original poll by the way), part comes up. My score is too high on that, making it the best Zelda game, which it isn't....

 

Therefore I need to adjust my personal scores on the series, giving it bonus points (or deducted points) for certain (game-unique) inventions...

 

For example:

Zelda 1 and 2 get bonus points, they are so old, they can't really compete with the N64 ones for example.... However Zelda 2 gets bonus points for creativity compared to Zelda 1, it gets some of its points reduced for being too straight forward (you basically can't get lost, which gave some feeling of loneliness to the Zelda series)

MM get bonus points for its setting and atmospere, but lacks the feeling of freedom due to the three day time limit, so a small minus there...

ALttP has a longer story, but Minish Cap had better items.....

All that and more...

 

I'll update my post as soon as I can figure out what's wrong with it....

[Ronnie]

I seeeee...

 

Wow, someone's taking this poll pretty seriously

[Zechs Merquise]

I think choosing any is very difficult. They are all truly amazing games. From the 3D ones I would have to pick Ocarina, from the 2D ones I would have to say Link to the Past.

 

But a special mention must go to the original, which was magnificent and Zelda 2: Adventure of Link which was magnificent. The 2D combat was inspired and the quest challenging and rewarding.

[flameboy]

http://www.bitmob.com/index.php/mobfeed/jay-zelda-beats-awakening-the-prologue.html

 

awesome Jay-Z and Links Awakening remix...

[EEVILMURRAY]

What list is incomplete? The poll options? What is incomplete abot it?

Oracle of Ages is lacking. Which I preferred over Seasons. They could've gone together.

Edited December 11, 2009 by EEVILMURRAY

[mcj metroid]

Oracle of Ages is lacking. Which I preferred over Seasons. They could've gone together.

I forgot to include it with it really. Didn't really take it seriously as I really didn't think anyone would vote for the option.

 

You get a limit of 10 options I really only put the games people might vote for in there. I left out the CDI games, FOUR SWORDS, zelda 2 and even thought its not really a zelda game link's crossbow training

[Fierce_LiNk]

Hmm, this is tough for me to choose my top 3. The problem is that I enjoyed Majora's Mask so much, but in a different way to Ocarina of Time. Majora's Mask built on so many aspects that Ocarina introduced, so I enjoyed Majora's Mask so very much because of my love for Ocarina...if that makes sense. If I hadn't played Ocarina before playing Majora's Mask, then I don't think I'd have the same sense of enjoyment I did. I loved seeing the Zoras and the Gorons again, and seeing the characters from Hyrule in this Parallel Universe of Termina.

 

Ocarina was such a huge high point for me. I spent so many hours on that, and I really knew nothing about the game before I picked it up and bought it. I had played some of A Link To The Past beforehand, but I wasn't officially hooked on the Zelda Drug until Ocarina came about. There's just so many beautiful moments, so many memorable scenes and so many occassions where I felt a sense of awe for what I was playing and experiencing.

 

Many people love Wind Waker, but I think I found playing Twilight Princess a bit more enjoyable. For some reason, I experienced many of the same things that I did when I played Ocarina, that sense of awe and wonderment. Wind Waker is a truely beautiful game and I had an excellent time playing, but there's just something about Twilight Princess that I loved. It was a special game for me, probably a lot more for me than it was for others.

 

Now, the dilema is that I managed to play A Link To The Past again after Ocarina of Time and got into it a lot more. I think more of it is down to my age. I wasn't old enough or mature enough to properly enjoy ALTTP when I played it the first time around, so this time the experience was so much better. I enjoyed the game so much, too. I found it pretty damn challenging, and I also found Link's Awakening very challenging, both great games.

 

1. Ocarina of Time.

2. Majora's Mask.

 

That part is easy. The next part is so hard. It's really between A Link To The Past and Twilight Princess. I don't think I've played through the games again (rerun) to properly say which one I think is the better game. But, from what I've played:

 

3. A Link To The Past. What an utter masterpiece. I'm going to have to play this again pretty soon, because it's been a few years since I have. But, what a game.

 

(4th would have to be Twilight Princess, and 5th would be Wind Waker).

 

I haven't managed to get hold of the Oracle games yet, or Zelda 2. I've got Phantom Hourglass from Ine in my room ready to play but I keep finding other stuff to do, so I've been putting it off. Minish Cap I also need to track down. I've really neglected playing Zelda on a handheld, haha.

[Jonnas]

Updated List

 

Adventure of Link - 0

Phantom Hourglass - 1

Legend of Zelda - 2

Oracle of Ages/Seasons - 2

Link's Awakening - 3

Minish Cap - 7

Twilight Princess - 15.5

Wind Waker - 18

A Link to the Past - 19.5

Ocarina of Time - 35

Majora's Mask - 41

 

 

Voters (only Top 3s were counted):

Captain Falcon

Cube

Daft

darksnowman

dazzybee

Eddage

Epic fail

Fierce_Link

Fused King

Grazza

Hero-of-Time

Jav_NE

Jonnas

killer kirby

mcj Metroid

Mike

MoogleViper

Oxigen_Waste

Pit-Jr

Portlett

Retro_Link

Sheikah

SPAMBOT4000

Triple_C

 

 

It seems Ocarina of Time is approaching Majora's Mask more and more.

[darksnowman]

It seems Ocarina of Time is approaching Majora's Mask more and more.

 

If the trend continues, I can go back through and edit some posts. :wink:

 

 

In the latest Retronauts they have a talk about handheld Zelda's... and they give Minish Cap a bit of a pasting!

[killer kirby]

It seems Ocarina of Time is approaching Majora's Mask more and more.

 

Oh noez, an awesome game overtaking another awesome game, what's going to become of this world

[flameboy]

If the trend continues, I can go back through and edit some posts. :wink:

 

 

In the latest Retronauts they have a talk about handheld Zelda's... and they give Minish Cap a bit of a pasting!

 

yeah I was listening to that yesterday was a bit surprised to be honest, I've not finished it as I don't have anyway of playing it since i traded my old ds for a dsi...gonna pick up a micro some time...

[mcj metroid]

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2009/12/majoras-mask-not-the-greatest-zelda-game-ever-made.php#more

 

an article pointing to why majoras mask is NOT the best zelda game.

Majora's Mask: Not the Greatest (Zelda) Game Ever Made

Posted on December 21, 2009 5:46 PM by Casey Hodges

Category: Articles

In response to Phil Stetson's article which praises Majora's Mask, I would like to prove that not everyone at ZeldaInformer holds the game in such high regard. While Majora's Mask is still a great game, it's far from perfect and certainly not the best Zelda game. In order to counteract the six valid reasons, given by Phil, in favor of Majora's Mask, here are six flawed areas of Majora's Mask.

1. Reused Characters

After the success of Ocarina of Time, Eiji Aonuma was charged with the difficult task of quickly developing a new title for the new fans of the series. In order to release Majora's Mask just two years after Ocarina of Time, Aonuma unfortunately had to cut several corners to save time. One of these corners happened to be reusing almost all the character models from Ocarina of Time. Now this is explained away by suggesting the game takes in a parallel or alternate dimension from Ocarina of Time, although in game evidence never really justifies this explanation. In reality, it is nothing more than a lame excuse to get out of designing new characters. Had the game stayed in development for a few extra months, perhaps they could have designed a fresh cast of characters. This copy/paste policy really takes away from the game. It's just not easy to connect with characters when all you can think about is how these two girls look identical to Malon. The game leaves you with an awkward Ocarina of Time after taste.

 

2. Item Time Paradox

As you all know, Majora's Mask takes place during a repeated three day cycle. Every time Link plays the Song of Time, he travels back to day one and loses all the items he collected. Well not every item. It seems that it's okay to keep inventory items, like weapons and masks, but when it comes to rupees, bombs, and arrows, Link loses them every cycle. It simply doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying Link should lose his items and mask collection every time he travels back, but why does he need to lose everything else? Sure, they're all fairly easy to collect, but it can be such a pain to go scavenge for supplies every single time you need to reset. If Link kept everything in his inventory, then fine, we can call it some side effect of the Hero of Time, but since he can only keep specific items, it leaves us scratching our heads. This is just bad game design meant to inconvenience the player.

 

3. Bank Paradox

Since Link cannot hold onto his rupees during time travel, he has to deposit his cash into a time paradox bank account to save it. Losing items in time travel is dumb enough, but to force the player to run to the bank at the end of each cycle before starting over is a tedious task that adds nothing to the experience. The entire concept of the bank doesn't even make sense. Rupees Link collected on day three cannot go back with him, unless he deposits the rupees during that cycle. Then on day one of the reset cycle, the rupees will safely appear in the account. This simply makes no sense and is a direct result of poor game design.

 

4. Time Limit

Time limits in games are so intimidating. The first time you try the time trial, you almost know you'll have to repeat it at least once before you fully understand what you need to do. In Majora's Mask, the entire game is a time trial, and your first time playing through can be very intimidating. The average first time player of Majora's Mask doesn't realize that the Song of Time can be altered to slow down time until sometime after the first temple. When exploring those labyrinths for the first time, it becomes very intimidating when it hits day three and you haven't even met the boss yet. The pressure to perform quickly deters players which is why so many struggle to complete the game.

 

5. Game Length

Majora's Mask has only four temples. There are plenty of side quests, but they really don't add much length to the game. The only real length from the game is a direct result of the time cycle. During a first play through, trial and error plays a crucial role, because one minor mistake could result in resetting the time cycle completely. Entire temples may need to be replayed if not completed in a timely manner. Side quests are particularly difficult in figuring out where to be at what particular time. One slight misinterpretation may result in starting over. Such brutal punishment is very strict for a Zelda game, which probably turned away so many players.

 

 

 

6. Save System

One thing I have always enjoyed about the Zelda series is how kind their save systems are. In most titles, you can save at any time and start back up in a close proximity to the area you left in. This allowed players to effectively work around their busy schedules. It also allows players to enjoy the game in short bursts. If you had 10 minutes to burn, you could pop the game in, collect a few rupees, kill a few Moblins, save the game and quit. Majora's Mask takes all these convenient features known to the series and goes out of its way to remove them. There is no quick and easy way to stop and save. You can reset the cycle which does save your game, but unless you have a significant time to play, you will likely lose your progress since the world resets. There are owl statues to quick save, but those are only helpful if you happen to be near one. Plus, these statues force you to quit, so no precautionary saves allowed. If you want to play Majora's Mask, make sure you set aside plenty of time to play through it, because you simply cannot complete the game in short bursts. The save system alone needlessly complicates the game, which really sets it apart from the other titles, for the wrong reason. It's no wonder why so many players were initially turned away by this game.

 

 

 

Now to be perfectly honest, despite its flaws, Majora's Mask is a great game. The first time I played through the game was very frustrating, but each play through since was much more enjoyable. I encourage those who disliked the game to give it another try, because it gets better the more time you put into it. But ultimately, the game does suffer from poor design decisions caused by the short development period. These little flaws add up and hold the game back from true greatness. Majora's Mask took a strong direction towards story, but despite what some may believe, Zelda has always been about gameplay. If players do not have fun playing the game, then there is something very wrong. How can we possibly call this the greatest Zelda game of all time when so many fail to complete it due to the poor game design? Majora's Mask is far from perfect and certainly not the greatest game of all time, nor the greatest Zelda game of all time.

[Lens of Truth]

Majora's Mask is a wonderful game, but I have to agree with a lot of that. The whole time thing is a bit of a mess if we're honest, and the reused characters and assets make it seem a little uninspired at times. The biggest problem I had with it back in the day, and still do now, is how scrappy the graphics look. The design just isn't as strong as OOT and sometimes objects, pathways etc almost look haphazardly placed, raw and functional. The textures and colours of the game are always either drab or garish, rarely balanced and beautiful (- I know this is partly a deliberate choice of the art style, but it's also partly the result of the recycling / rushed nature of it). The ocarina songs are cringe-makingly bad (with a few key exceptions, such as the Song of Healing and Sonata of Awakening) vs the indisputable genius of the ones from the previous game. The sequences that accompany some of these against a white background are also pretty ugly and 'un-Zeldaish'.

 

The good vastly outweighs the bad of course: the unique atmosphere, the originality of the 3 day structure, possibly the best 'story' of the series, sidequests, excellent dungeons etc. To say it’s the greatest Zelda is a bit of a stretch for me though.

[Ronnie]

A lot of those points are personal opinion.

 

2. Yes Aonuma could have had it so we keep rupees, arrows, bombs etc, but that takes away some of the challenge. Big deal.

 

3. I thought this was explained in-game? I don't remember the exact details, but it's something like the bank manager gives Link a stamp or a 'card' of some sort that says how much money he has in his account. The stamp or whatever it is goes back in time, so tricks the bank into thinking that's how much Link is owed. Something like that anyway. Regardless, it's no huge annoyance even if it wasn't explained.

 

4. The time limit is at the very core of what made Majora's Mask great, not to mention challenging.

 

5. It felt just as long as OOT. There was far more to do in between dungeons in MM, and five times as many sidequests.

[Sheikah]

http://www.zeldainformer.com/2009/12/majoras-mask-not-the-greatest-zelda-game-ever-made.php#more

 

an article pointing to why majoras mask is NOT the best zelda game.

Most of this article has very poor points. At least in trying to prove that MM isn't the best Zelda game, as most of those points are minor quibbles at best.

 

MM isn't short, as its temples are generally longer (fairy collecting, too), and it consists of several unofficial dungeons that are longer than anything OoT offered. It has many more sidequests, and certainly lasted me a lot longer than OoT did. At least if you try and do everything the game offered.

 

Regarding the item/rupee losing...the idea is that they return to where they came from. They needed some way of actually retaining your rupees (done via bank stamp) and masks since it would be a huge ordeal to obtain these again. You can't have a true Groundhog Day experience while retaining the enjoyability factor. On the plus side, you can go open all treasure chests again for rupees, so every cloud has a silver lining. It's also ridiculous to argue the logic of a videogame in which magic is commonplace. It's pretty much the comic book guy from the Simpsons asking why saving is even possible in games when there's no such function in real life. It's a game, and therefore not realistic, so it's crazy to suggest that the game is broken/rubbish for having unrealistic aspects.

 

Regarding the time limit and dungeons...it really only affected people who were crap at the game. Unless you really don't have a clue what your'e doing, I find it very hard to imagine that someone would need the full 3 days plus the countdown after slowing down time to clear a dungeon. If anything the game offers a slight challenge with the time system. And it made sidequests feal far more real, and made the whole game feel different from any other Zelda title.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Sheikah

[killer kirby]

A lot of those points are personal opinion.

 

Just like your post, my post and everyone else's here, many people love MM (Like me) but there were many flaws in the game, it's not picture perfect like everyone says it to be...just like eeeeeevery game out there.

[SPAMBOT4000]

The article should have been titled "Why Majora's Mask isn't perfect" (as it isn't) and not "Why MM is not the best Zelda game ever" (as it is).

As Sheikah said, a lot of the points are either minor quibbles (reused art) or just plain wrong (banking system & game length)

It doesn't really do much to say what it's not the best Zelda. There aren't many comparisons and even less that hold up. It just feels like someone's been asked to do a lazy article for the OoT fanboys to address the site's editorial balance.

[killer kirby]

The article should have been titled "Why Majora's Mask isn't perfect" (as it isn't) and not "Why MM is not the best Zelda game ever" (as it is).

As Sheikah said, a lot of the points are either minor quibbles (reused art) or just plain wrong (banking system & game length)

It doesn't really do much to say what it's not the best Zelda. There aren't many comparisons and even less that hold up. It just feels like someone's been asked to do a lazy article for the OoT fanboys to address the site's editorial balance.

 

It's a defense for the other article which says that MM is the greatest Zelda game out there, which of course some people tend to disagree, hence the defense, I still think the full on Zelda fans are some of the funniest ones out there on forums.

 

It's true that it's more of a thing to keep people who liked the other Zelda games more happy, N-europe members seem to love MM to death and will defend the game to death if anyone talks anything bad about it.

 

Every Zelda game to me is truly an awesome game to me, and obviously I have waaaaaaay different taste on what a good Zelda game to the people on this forums and what isn't.

 

I think Zelda:TP is the best 3D Zelda out there still, and I won't back down from that statement of mine, I love everything that they made in the game, yet a lot of people on this forum seem to hate the game with passion.

[SPAMBOT4000]

Yeah I realised that it was a defense for the other article, that's what I meant about addressing the balance. But it feels more like a "Why it isn't perfect" rather than "Why it's not the best zelda" article. I can't deny my love for MM but that article was just lazily written and researched. It was like the author wrote it because his editor told him to rather than because it was something he felt strongly about.

[Ronnie]

Just like your post, my post and everyone else's here, many people love MM (Like me) but there were many flaws in the game, it's not picture perfect like everyone says it to be...just like eeeeeevery game out there.

 

My post and your post aren't articles on a website published factually.

 

I love everything that they made in the game, yet a lot of people on this forum seem to hate the game with passion.

 

No one "hates the game with a passion" FFS. Get over it and stop being such a drama queen. The common opinion online, and not just on this board, is that TP is the weakest of the 3D Zeldas.

[killer kirby]

My post and your post aren't articles on a website published factually.

That doesn't mean anything, mostly everything that gets put online usually are viewed on opinions.

Reviews

Previews

Top 10

Retrospectives etc etc...

 

Most of all these are still based on opinions, like the review IGN had of GTAIV declaring it as 'Oscar worthy' which it clearly wasn't

 

 

 

No one "hates the game with a passion" FFS. Get over it and stop being such a drama queen.

 

I accidentally made it saying this forum, I was meaning through the whole internet, forums, blogs etc etc.... sorry:woops:

 

But ah well, why does it matter, I am used to it now, but it seems like more people on other forums are giving it another go and enjoying it a lot more then the first play, which is pleasing to see.

[Hero-of-Time]

I think Zelda:TP is the best 3D Zelda out there still, and I won't back down from that statement of mine, I love everything that they made in the game, yet a lot of people on this forum seem to hate the game with passion.

 

Why should you back down? You love it to bits and clearly got more out of it than others did.

 

I plan on replaying the game at some point as I haven't played it since I finished it at the Wii launch. Im hoping I enjoy it more than last time, it wasn't a bad game at all its was just ok for me.